The Q&A session afterwards was also disappointing:
when asked about education, Deval said that it was good but that education should improve at all levels, from kindergarten through high school, and vocational school. OK.
One fellow asked Deval if he’d be in favor of the Massachusetts legislature initiating impeachment charges against Bush. Before Deval could answer, Barney burst in swinging, telling us that it’s better for the Democrats to have Bush in office than to be accused of impeaching the President. Deval said that Barney’s was “probably” the right answer, later adding “But he [Bush] has to go”. (I guess impeachment’s not the correct vehicle, but there’s another way that I haven’t been clued into yet.)
The whole affair left me depressed. I see no sign that politics has become about anything than politics. Even Barney Frank seems to have forgotten that politics is about governing, not just getting elected. I’d have agreed with his statement re:Bush a few months ago, but not now: Iraq is a catastrophe, the economy of the average Joe and Jill is in shambles. Bush has violently breached our Constitution. Pretty much everyone who will ever know that Bush is an evil jerk, now knows that Bush is an evil jerk.
It’s time for the Democrats to do something. To lead instead of squish. What I saw tonight was a distinct aversion for doing something, other than getting elected.
For once, I’d love to vote for someone that inspired me, rather than flipping a coin to choose among virtual equivalents.
The one positive of the night was that such an event could take place in a local home. I believe that if the good ideas and good intentions of the hosts and the citizens present could be channeled into good governance, we’d be in much better waters. Barney said that he was surprised to see so many faces that he did *not* know at a Newton political event – perhaps a change is in the making. Let us all pray to our favorite deity that change is near.
One other thing that I found pretty creepy – Deval’s crew was (nicely) asking attendees to sign little yellow cards pledging to vote for him. Is this something new? I thought only Bush did this.
sco says
You’ve got it backwards. Bush made you sign the cards before he allowed you into the event.
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Deval’s campaign just wants to know if you’re going to vote for him. It’s like reverse doorknocking for voter ID. Instead of you going door-to-door, the people come to you.
goldsteingonewild says
With the obvious weirdness of creating a “double-Goldstein” post, I’d add another gubernatorial thought….
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….Much as I’m bothered by the “squish” approach, I think it works well for Patrick right now. His goal is to win 40-35-25, and the last poll had him at 36%.
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If Reilly attacks Patrick, DP’s supporters go to Gabrieli (at least according to Gabs’ internal polls). So Reilly has low incentive to do this.
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Reilly, however, has high incentive to go after Gabs, from whom he can pull some votes. This would also benefit DP.
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DP’s hope:
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a. Gabs and Reilly tangle…ironically, the best thing to help him here would be a very CLOSE poll coming out in next 2 weeks…DP had a 12 point lead last time, and if he has surged ahead, they’ll both fire at him, why not.
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I wonder if the Globe series on Debt Collection – amazing – will hurt Reilly a bit here….it’s yet another example of low enforcement on his part.
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b. Keep the Birkenstock/college student/moonbat base…use the fact that Reilly and Gabs have low grassroots…
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c. Use steady stream of endorsements (Harshbarger, Frank, etc) to stay in the news
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d. Make a few deals with the devil (i.e., oppose charter schools to get teachers union support)
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e. Avoid specific policy stuff that would kill him in the general election against Healey. For example, if DP would have done what you wanted – “Let’s impeach Bush” – he’d be TOAST in the general. Independents dislike Bush, but the “impeach” people remind us of Senator Fluffernutter.
will says
There’s an old story about Ted Williams – I think it’s actually true – that in the season where he broke .400, he came in to the last game of the season with a .401. Wanting to guarantee the record, his coach said, “Ted, you’re gonna sit this one out, right?” Ted said to his coach, “Well, I’m either gonna bat .400 in a season, or I’m not.” He took two at-bats, got two hits, and closed it off with a .406 for the history books.
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My point is, a warning against changing away from what works, even in the name of caution. September 19 is still a very long time away; the old proverb “most people haven’t started paying attention” probably still holds a lot of truth, even among Primary voters.
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The best defense is a good offense. Go get em, Patrick.
david says
And it’s a good analogy. Patrick wins only if he sticks with what got him this far, IMHO. He can’t match the $$$ of Gabrieli, and possibly even of Reilly (though he presumably has the option of dumping a lot of cash in at the last minute). He needs to keep his “base” energized, and he needs to get people to turn out on Sept 19 who otherwise might not. Toning down what has worked for him so far strikes me as a risky strategy for his kind of campaign. But he may well have just been as affected by the heat as everyone else was at this particular event, so I wouldn’t read too much into it.
tom-m says
Not to nitpick, but the story is even better than that. Williams was batting .3996 going into the last day and the manager advised him to sit so his final average would be rounded up to .400, but Williams wanted to do it right. He played both games in a doubleheader, went 6 for 8 and finished at .406.
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Anyway, Will’s point is absolutely right. No one should feel like they should be coasting, regardless of what the polls might say. September 19th might as well be a lifetime away.
lolorb says
Is this becoming a family affair?
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I have to agree with Barney and Deval: Impeaching Bush would leave us with a pResident Cheney. That alone has me on the censure side. Ned Lamont said the same thing in an interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now. Deval is running for Governor of MA, so I’m not sure he should spend a whole lot of time on the question of impeachment.
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Deval is one of the most caring and observant candidates I have ever met. I would fully expect him to cut his time to the bare minimum if people were uncomfortable in the heat. He would care more about the people in the room than his own interests.
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Deval’s staffers were doing exactly what they should have been doing by getting pledge cards. This is the nuts and bolts of a campaign. Good for them.
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Your suggestions for the campaign are always highly amusing in their complete ignorance of what this campaign is all about. Love when you parrot gooper talking points — Birkenstocks, moonbats, etc. Oh, and “Senator Fluffernutter” will earn you a 3 for yet another worthless attack.
david says
Have a 5 and a smile! đŸ˜‰
goldsteingonewild says
Nothing like a 5 and a Coolata to handle the summer sun*….
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*And about 10 megawatts of AC! Yay AC! Go Cape Wind. Boo Al Gore, who wants me to turn off AC so he can jet around on his Gulfstream. Which reminds me: will Al endorse Joementum? I heard Lamont on NPR yesterday; he did well. Joementum ducked. Bizarre choice.
sco says
Gore and Lieberman had a big falling out after Gore endorsed Dean in 2004.
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By the way, Gore may be ‘jetting around on his Gulfstream’, but his promotional tour for an Inconvenient Truth is carbon neutral. The short version: they buy pollution credits on the market so that power companies can’t use them.
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I would think that conservatives would love this idea — it’s a market-based solution, after all.
goldsteingonewild says
Thanks for the tip – I didn’t know that. I love the carbon-neutral travel idea. It might appeal way beyond conservatives like Gary, and connect with pro-growth progressives, to borrow a phrase from Gene Sperling, like me – who get all warm and fuzzy about market-based solutions that promote social justice.
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They should do that with all flights, like the organ donor thing on your license, where you feel kinda jerky to decline. On every flight, you’d get a form which says “I want to pay a bit extra so this trip is carbon neutral” or “Nah, I’d rather keep the dough and pollute, because my great grand-children aren’t born yet.” Plus maybe Planters could throw in extra peanuts if you pay the carbon tax!
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That Gore. He thinks of everything. Well except in 2000, when Clinton handed him a stack of poker chips called “peace and prosperity,” and Al went all in with a J-4 unsuited. Oh well.
gary says
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Eh? Who is ‘they’?
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And, do you realize how big the Carbon Offset market is?!
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And, maybe I’m mistaken, but I thought there was no Carbon trading outside of Kyoto. (i.e. US on the sidelines)
sco says
Here are the details.
gary says
Let’s pretend that I’m a gas-guzzlin’, SUV drivin’, polluting, non-recycling capitalist.
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Not a big stretch, right?
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But, I’m filled with guilt and remorse, much like the Barons of the Middle Ages who sinned lots and paid others to go to church on their behalf and pray for absolution.
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Thanks to Al Gore and others, specifically those from nativeenergy.com I can buy “green-tags” (I’ve always called them carbon offsets, but “green-tags” is to “carbon offsets” as “life care community” is to “nursing home.” I get it. I bet they’re covered with trees, and baby seals and stuff.)
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Anyway, I burn my carbon, then, ’cause of my bitter remorse, send my check to nativeenergy.com who claims, in exchange for a buck or two, to erase my carbon footprint by promising to give (Give? Lend? Invest?) my money to windmill folks and methane folks and solar folks to offset the cost of building new facilities.
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It sounds like it’s a bit of a confidence game. I’m sending nativeenergy money. They take my money and hold it to invest in green-farms. Then, whenever they invest the money, nativeenergy owns the green-farm and some portion of the profits therefrom.
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At the end of the day, I own a green tag, and bought and burned a pile of carbon. Nativeenergy has 1) my money 2) an investment in a green-farm 3) future profits from greenfarm.
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This is the cleverest idea I’ve seen today! I smell money. And, by no small coincidence, it’s green.
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So, here’s the deal. I own some land in Central Massachusetts and there seems to be a pretty good breeze. Send me the money and I’ll put up a windmill and hook it into the grid and sell clean-green electricity and I’ll send you a thank you note and a picture of a whale (or tree, your pick!) and I’ll absolve you of your carbon sin.
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Trust me. Operators are standing by.
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Does this work for you?
stomv says
Sure — build that wind farm. Just make sure that:
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After all, that’s what NativeEnergy does.
gary says
I can have that 501(c)(3) corp. up and running in about 3 hours.
frankskeffington says
You mean you can get me a IRS letter cerifying the 501c3 status in a matter of hours? Wow. I’ll take everything bad I’ve ever wrote about you.
gary says
goldsteingonewild says
would you concede that DP supporters are more likely to count birkenstocks amongst their shoe collections than non-DP supporters, just as healey supporters are more likely to own, say, the latest titanium tiger woods endorsed 3 wood?
frankskeffington says
earns you a 3.
frankskeffington says
I’ve seen Deval speak several times and guess what, sometimes he has no “magic” and it’s an off night. I think it’s way premature to suggest, based on one appearance on a sweltering summer night, that Deval is adversed to “do(ing) something, other than getting elected”. (This coming from someone who is not supporting Deval.)
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Also, I have to say that you appear to be from the “just don’t get it crowd” who scream from the far end of a political spectrum and then complain about losing elections. On the one hand you bemoan the state of economy for the average person. Great, that wins elections. Talk about issues that impact a vast majority of people and, once elected, have the power to impact things. But then you list a litany of issues that the average “Joe and Jill” understand have nothing to do with being Governor and they wonÂ’t vote for someone that takes positions of issues that have nothing to do with the job.
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Even though I opposed the Iraq War from day one, at best it plays a minor–if any–role in a Governors race (maybe in regards to National Guard readiness). Injecting the issue of impeaching Bush in the Governor’s race is a moonbat offense. Yes I understand that state legislatures can initiate this measure–but I’m not aware that a Governor can.
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And frankly Impeach Bush talk right now is exactly what the Republicans want to hear. They’ll tell voters that the only thing Democrats care about is hating Bush. No, what we need to do is win back Congress by talking about issues (and Iraq is certainly a Congressional issue). When we win back the House (at least), we get subpoena power and we’ll hold hearings on the issues you brought up. If we find the smoking gun, charges of impeachment should be issued.
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That is how the system works. Not asking a guy running for Governor if Bush should be impeached. That doesn’t move any progressive issues further one bit.
mannygoldstein says
My disappointment re: impeachment was with Barney, not Deval.
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My disappointment with Deval was the lack of substance in last night’s talk.
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Your comment “Also, I have to say that you appear to be from the “just don’t get it crowd” who scream from the far end of a political spectrum and then complain about losing elections.” is a bit personal. It’s also a bit misplaced, given that Democrats have been running as Republicans, i.e., from the right end of the spectrum, for the last 10 years or so – and have been generally getting their clocks cleaned by the Republicans enrolled in the Republican party.
frankskeffington says
…one of those Democrats who has been running to the right of Republicans for the last 10 years? I’ll try to be more polite this time, but the notion that we should be running on a “Impeach Bush” platform is bad politics and may very well endanger our chances of winning control of one of the branches of congress. Often points of principle result in electoral loses and I think this is such an example.
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Personally I think it’s a tired cliche to complain about Democrats running to the right of Republicans. Sure you have the DLC strain and Leiberman appears to be getting his just reward. But really who else? The Clintons…well he did get elected and in the big picture he made a lot of progressive accomplishments–like lowering the poverty rate, like shifting the tax burden towards the rich (things that are being reversed right know). Sure he held if finger in the air all the time and was far from perfect, but a lot of good was accomplished.
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I’m not going to defend every moderate inclination of some Democrats, I just think that some folks (on the left and right) have no sense of the possible. We, liberals, first need to fight in the realm of ideas–in the media and the think tanks–and give people running for office thye confidence that their ideas will be accepted.
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Pushing a politican out into the cold and tell them to stand up and have ideals is not the solution.
mannygoldstein says
The Democrats have been running as Republicans since Clinton took the White house using this technique. Since then, they have been getting regularly shellacked by evil jerks.
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So now The People have realized that the evil jerks are… evil jerks, and are ready to vote for the alternative. So the alternative party has embraced a strategy of “we’re not evil jerks”.
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That might work to some degree while running against the current set of “dirty” evil jerks. But what will happen the moment that the Republicans actually registered as Republicans run a “new and improved” group of “clean” evil jerks? I think the results are predictable – another shellacking by the Republicans.
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“Had enough?” is a slogan, not a strategy.
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If they want long-term success, the Democrats have to stop acting like less-egregious Republicans, and start to stand for something. But, clearly, they’ll only become Democrats when We The People make it happen by voting for people who embrace Democratic values. Otherwise they’ll continue to accept zillions from the rich, and continue to screw the middle class in return.
gary says
Barney Frank
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Cerca July, 2005.
mannygoldstein says
To me , that just confirms the weird vibe of what I saw on Thursday evening.
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Too bad.
ed-prisby says
That he was in Newton, of all places, which he’s long since wrapped up. Maybe after 13 months of campaigning he didn’t bring his “A-game” to a roomful of people who have already pledged their undying love. Also, consider the awkward pairing of a super-liberal Congressman with Deval at a time when he’s surely begun to think about appealing to middle-of-the-spectrum voters come November. What does George Bush REALLY have to do with this election? Not as much as Mitt Romney and Kerry Healey, to say nothing of his primary opponents.
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It was a fund raising event. Take it for what it’s worth.
davemb says
That he was in Newton, of all places, which he’s long since wrapped up.
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Of course, in a statewide race (unlike in the Presidential race) ten more votes in Newton are worth just as much as ten more votes anywhere else. Your implication that he could be getting more votes by a public appearance where he’s less well known may be right, but he’s also got to motivate his base supporters to give money and encourage turnout. It’s not as if the GOP presidential candidate were campaigning in South Dakota or something.
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Is Deval on the air at all at the moment? I saw Gabrieli and Reilly ads on the (dismal) Sox game last night.
david says
Patrick isn’t running any TV ads yet.
ed-prisby says
That’s not quite what I meant. I was just saying that to the extent that most of the people in the room had more than likely heard Deval’s stump speech more than once, and to the extent that he KNEW a majority of the people had heard it more than once, there’s probably a natural tendancy to be a little less charasmatic in that situation. If he lost a potential voter there with a poor delivery, that’s regrettable, but sort of understandable.
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The best analogy I can make is the “trap game” analogy from the NFL. Occassionally, in the middle or end of the season an 8-0 team will be playing a 1-7 team this coming week, and then have a big division game the next week. The 8-0 team is really looking forward to the division game, and looking past the 1-7 team. So, they come out and lay an egg against the 1-7 team because they “knew” they’d win and were looking past the game.
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I wasn’t there, but my first thought in reading this post about Deval’s lackluster night in Newton was “trap game.” He knows he’s winning there, and probably has other engagements lined up right after that, or the next day. So, maybe he lays an egg in Newton. Big deal. Moving on.