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	<title>Comments on: Hatch v. Romney</title>
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	<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/</link>
	<description>Reality-based commentary on politics and policy in Massachusetts and around the nation</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 01:56:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: johnk</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247767</link>
		<dc:creator>johnk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247767</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You would think by now that Orrin would know better than think Romney will maintain a position that he thinks would hurt his chances in the primary. &#160;He&#039;s a man of no conviction.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You would think by now that Orrin would know better than think Romney will maintain a position that he thinks would hurt his chances in the primary. &nbsp;He&#8217;s a man of no conviction.</p>
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		<title>By: shillelaghlaw</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247768</link>
		<dc:creator>shillelaghlaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247768</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I would hope that anyone opposed to the Cordoba House would remember that it wasn&#039;t all that long ago that an angry mob burned down a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursuline_Convent_Riots&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Catholic convent&lt;/a&gt; in Charlestown and that a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;political party&lt;/a&gt; arose around the idea that Catholics were beholden to the Pope and that they wanted to subjugate good Americans to the rule of the Pope.
&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cathcom.net/bible/book.php?id=25&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;There is nothing new under the sun&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/i&gt; Ecclesiastes 1:9&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would hope that anyone opposed to the Cordoba House would remember that it wasn&#8217;t all that long ago that an angry mob burned down a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursuline_Convent_Riots" rel="nofollow">Catholic convent</a> in Charlestown and that a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing" rel="nofollow">political party</a> arose around the idea that Catholics were beholden to the Pope and that they wanted to subjugate good Americans to the rule of the Pope.
</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;<i><a href="http://www.cathcom.net/bible/book.php?id=25" rel="nofollow">There is nothing new under the sun</a>.</i> Ecclesiastes 1:9</p>
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		<title>By: amberpaw</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247769</link>
		<dc:creator>amberpaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247769</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;Temple of the First Light&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Built to endure, from granite born,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;spire touched by gold from the dawn;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Glowing reflection, with dawnlight blending&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Shining
Pure as hope
From Belmont to the sea.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Clothed by loving hands, with flowers
girded by earth with sentinel trees;
blessing with beauty
man and woman
as they marry;
Encircling the grieving
within the arms of Heaven.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Seen from sea&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;And the sea, seeing,
Inviting all to walk in beauty
reminding all of numinous glory;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;A call to prayer&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Supplications&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Framed by clouds.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;cDeborah Sirotkin Butler, 1996&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Just another shadow from the Wayback Machine. &#160;The reference to &quot;the first light&quot; has to do with Dawn touching our Eastern Shores before Dawn touches the temples in the West. &#160;As to why I attend neither the Temple nor the Latter Day Saint Church these days - that is another story for another time. &#160;Let&#039;s just say, though, that I don&#039;t change my convictions to be in fashion.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;<b>Temple of the First Light</b></p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Built to endure, from granite born,</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;spire touched by gold from the dawn;</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Glowing reflection, with dawnlight blending</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Shining<br />
Pure as hope<br />
From Belmont to the sea.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Clothed by loving hands, with flowers<br />
girded by earth with sentinel trees;<br />
blessing with beauty<br />
man and woman<br />
as they marry;<br />
Encircling the grieving<br />
within the arms of Heaven.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Seen from sea</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;And the sea, seeing,<br />
Inviting all to walk in beauty<br />
reminding all of numinous glory;</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;A call to prayer</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Supplications</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Framed by clouds.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;cDeborah Sirotkin Butler, 1996</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;<i>Just another shadow from the Wayback Machine. &nbsp;The reference to &#8220;the first light&#8221; has to do with Dawn touching our Eastern Shores before Dawn touches the temples in the West. &nbsp;As to why I attend neither the Temple nor the Latter Day Saint Church these days &#8211; that is another story for another time. &nbsp;Let&#8217;s just say, though, that I don&#8217;t change my convictions to be in fashion.</i></p>
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		<title>By: peter-porcupine</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247770</link>
		<dc:creator>peter-porcupine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247770</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;.
It is protected by Federal statute - the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rluipa.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA)&lt;/a&gt; which SPECIFICALLY by statute outlaws using &#039;zoning and landmarking&#039; as a means of preventing construction of a religious property. &#160;As you may know, the &#039;vote&#039; that set off the furor was by the NYC Historic Landmarks Commission denying landmark status - and they HAD to vote to deny per the Federal statute!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;The law was written by...Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah). And looking at the timing, Belmont may have been on his mind at the time.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;It is destructive and divisive to frame this as a First Amendment issue. &#160;The First Amendment is not absolute - fire in a crowded theatre, etc. &#160;But this statute SPECIFICALLY PROTECTS this project from exactly the strategy that was being used to prevent the project.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Full Disclosure - I DO think Cordoba House should accept the help of Gov. Patterson and relocate as a matter of good will and community. &#160;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.<br />
It is protected by Federal statute &#8211; the <a href="http://www.rluipa.com/" rel="nofollow">Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA)</a> which SPECIFICALLY by statute outlaws using &#8216;zoning and landmarking&#8217; as a means of preventing construction of a religious property. &nbsp;As you may know, the &#8216;vote&#8217; that set off the furor was by the NYC Historic Landmarks Commission denying landmark status &#8211; and they HAD to vote to deny per the Federal statute!</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;The law was written by&#8230;Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah). And looking at the timing, Belmont may have been on his mind at the time.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;It is destructive and divisive to frame this as a First Amendment issue. &nbsp;The First Amendment is not absolute &#8211; fire in a crowded theatre, etc. &nbsp;But this statute SPECIFICALLY PROTECTS this project from exactly the strategy that was being used to prevent the project.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Full Disclosure &#8211; I DO think Cordoba House should accept the help of Gov. Patterson and relocate as a matter of good will and community. &nbsp;</p>
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		<title>By: shillelaghlaw</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247771</link>
		<dc:creator>shillelaghlaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247771</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So how does Congress derive its authority to enforce the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLUIPA&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;RLUIPA&lt;/a&gt;? That act was passed to correct Constitutional issues with an &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Act&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;earlier act&lt;/a&gt;; ultimately I would suspect that any Supreme Court case relative to that act would figure that Congress would derive that authority from a Fourteenth Amendment application of the First Amendment. Unless you can argue Commerce Clause.
&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;And as to your last point, I also believe that it would have been better had Cordoba House located elsewhere- away from our National Ground Zero Shrine and the abutting &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/0824/Sex-shop-and-strip-clubs-near-ground-zero-show-double-standard-over-Park51&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;adult entertainment&lt;/a&gt; establishments nearby. However, at this point, Cordoba House has the legal and moral right to do what they want; to acquiesce to politeness or poltical correctness at this point would be to give in to the demands of a bully. Or a terrorist.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how does Congress derive its authority to enforce the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLUIPA" rel="nofollow">RLUIPA</a>? That act was passed to correct Constitutional issues with an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Act" rel="nofollow">earlier act</a>; ultimately I would suspect that any Supreme Court case relative to that act would figure that Congress would derive that authority from a Fourteenth Amendment application of the First Amendment. Unless you can argue Commerce Clause.
</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;And as to your last point, I also believe that it would have been better had Cordoba House located elsewhere- away from our National Ground Zero Shrine and the abutting <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/0824/Sex-shop-and-strip-clubs-near-ground-zero-show-double-standard-over-Park51" rel="nofollow">adult entertainment</a> establishments nearby. However, at this point, Cordoba House has the legal and moral right to do what they want; to acquiesce to politeness or poltical correctness at this point would be to give in to the demands of a bully. Or a terrorist.</p>
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		<title>By: peter-porcupine</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247772</link>
		<dc:creator>peter-porcupine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247772</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;They only write them. &#160;Overall, this strikes me as similar to &#039;restricted covenants&#039;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;BTW - an argument is out there to use Kelo to seize the land using the argument that since eleemosynary and religious property enjoy a tax exemption, ANY other use would promote the economic benefit of the community (!) and that NYC should seize the property.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;I think that RLUIPA would PROTECT Cordoba in this instance, but that a non-profit (ANY non-profit) would be eligible for seizure. &#160;So the &#039;YMCA&#039; argument could backfire...&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They only write them. &nbsp;Overall, this strikes me as similar to &#8216;restricted covenants&#8217;.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;BTW &#8211; an argument is out there to use Kelo to seize the land using the argument that since eleemosynary and religious property enjoy a tax exemption, ANY other use would promote the economic benefit of the community (!) and that NYC should seize the property.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;I think that RLUIPA would PROTECT Cordoba in this instance, but that a non-profit (ANY non-profit) would be eligible for seizure. &nbsp;So the &#8216;YMCA&#8217; argument could backfire&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: centralmassdad</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247773</link>
		<dc:creator>centralmassdad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247773</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Statutes are often used to codify the mechanisms of implementing constitutional rights. &#160;Happens all the time, perhaps because not every government official is going to be a constitutional scholar.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;RFRA, along with a raft of amendments to various things done at the same time, is another statute that attempts to protect the right to religious practice.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;These statutes don&#039;t actually change anything about the underlying right, of course.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Statutes are often used to codify the mechanisms of implementing constitutional rights. &nbsp;Happens all the time, perhaps because not every government official is going to be a constitutional scholar.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;RFRA, along with a raft of amendments to various things done at the same time, is another statute that attempts to protect the right to religious practice.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;These statutes don&#8217;t actually change anything about the underlying right, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: hoyapaul</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247774</link>
		<dc:creator>hoyapaul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247774</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Of course, the major difference between Hatch and Romney is that the latter is seeking the presidential nomination of a party with a strong penchant for Islamophobia. In any case, good for Hatch here.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;By the way, I&#039;m not sure using any tense of the verb &quot;to have&quot; makes any sense alongside a discussion of Romney&#039;s &quot;views.&quot; This suggests that Romney actually possesses a viewpoint -- which, as any reasonable person should be able to see, fails to offer an accurate description of the man.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, the major difference between Hatch and Romney is that the latter is seeking the presidential nomination of a party with a strong penchant for Islamophobia. In any case, good for Hatch here.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;By the way, I&#8217;m not sure using any tense of the verb &#8220;to have&#8221; makes any sense alongside a discussion of Romney&#8217;s &#8220;views.&#8221; This suggests that Romney actually possesses a viewpoint &#8212; which, as any reasonable person should be able to see, fails to offer an accurate description of the man.</p>
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		<title>By: peter-porcupine</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247775</link>
		<dc:creator>peter-porcupine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247775</guid>
		<description>
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		<title>By: centralmassdad</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247776</link>
		<dc:creator>centralmassdad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247776</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&#160; &#160;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&nbsp; &nbsp;</p>
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		<title>By: christopher</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247777</link>
		<dc:creator>christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247777</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;...I think means legislate specific penalties for violating more general laws, especially constitutional provisions. &#160;For example several constitutional amendments conclude with the line, &quot;Congress shall have the authority to ENFORCE this article by appropriate legislation.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;I think means legislate specific penalties for violating more general laws, especially constitutional provisions. &nbsp;For example several constitutional amendments conclude with the line, &#8220;Congress shall have the authority to ENFORCE this article by appropriate legislation.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: medfieldbluebob</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2010/08/hatch-v-romney/#comment-247778</link>
		<dc:creator>medfieldbluebob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/20669/#comment-247778</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You&#039;d think a Mormon would be more sensitive to a persecuted religion under attack. They were driven out of Missouri, their founder was murdered by an anti-Mormon mob, and they were forced to flee to the desert to escape the persecution and violence.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Mitt&#039;s just another rich geeky kid that nobody really likes. No matter how hard he tries, the cool kids (the GOP right wing fundamentalists in this case) aren&#039;t gonna be his friends. He can suck up all he wants. They&#039;ll just keep stealing his lunch money.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;I think he&#039;s so insecure and desperate to outdo his father that he will say and &#160;do anything, no matter how desperate and insecure he looks and sounds.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;Maybe he can claim he&#039;s brainwashed.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;d think a Mormon would be more sensitive to a persecuted religion under attack. They were driven out of Missouri, their founder was murdered by an anti-Mormon mob, and they were forced to flee to the desert to escape the persecution and violence.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Mitt&#8217;s just another rich geeky kid that nobody really likes. No matter how hard he tries, the cool kids (the GOP right wing fundamentalists in this case) aren&#8217;t gonna be his friends. He can suck up all he wants. They&#8217;ll just keep stealing his lunch money.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;I think he&#8217;s so insecure and desperate to outdo his father that he will say and &nbsp;do anything, no matter how desperate and insecure he looks and sounds.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;Maybe he can claim he&#8217;s brainwashed.</p>
<p>&lt;</p>
<p>p&gt;</p>
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