More evidence that Obama is the most gifted politician of our generation. Here he neatly transitions the entire Romney campaign, using their own claims, into an effort for the 1%, with him representing the remaining 99% of the electorate.
“I think it’s important to recognize that this issue is not a, quote, distraction. This is part of the debate that we’re going to be having in this election campaign about how do we create an economy where everybody from top to bottom, folks on Wall Street and folks on Main Street, have a shot at success, and if they’re working hard and they’re acting responsibly, that they’re able to live out the American dream. Now, I think my view of private equity is that it is – it is set up to maximize profits and that’s a healthy part of the free market. That’s – that’s part of the role of a lot of business people. That’s not unique to private equity, and as I think my representatives have said repeatedly, and I will say today, I think there are folks who do good work in that area, and there are times where they identify the capacity for the economy to create new jobs or new industries. But understand that their priority is to maximize profits. And that’s not always going to be good for communities or businesses or workers.
“And the reason this is relevant to the campaign is because my opponent, Governor Romney, his main calling card for why he thinks he should be president is his business experience. He’s not going out there touting his experience in Massachusetts. He’s saying,’ I’m a business guy and I know how to fix it,’ and this is his business.
“And when you’re president, as opposed to the head of a private equity firm, then your job is not simply to maximize profits. Your job is to figure out how everybody in the country has a fair shot. Your job is to think about those workers who get laid off and how are we paying them for their retraining? Your job is to think about how those communities can start creating new clusters so that they can attract new businesses. Your job as president is to think about how we set up an equitable tax system so that everybody’s paying their fair share that allows us then to invest in science and technology and infrastructure, all of which are going to help us grow. And so, if your main argument for how to grow the economy is, ‘I knew how to make a lot of money for investors,’ then you’re missing what this job is about. It doesn’t – it doesn’t mean you weren’t good at private equity, but that’s not what my job is as president. My job is to take into account everybody, not just some. My job is to make sure that the country is growing not just now, but ten years from now and twenty years from now.
“And so, to repeat, this is not a distraction. This is what this campaign’s going to be about, is: what is a strategy for us to move this country forward, in a way where everybody can succeed? And that means I’ve got to think about those workers in that video just as much as I’m thinking about folks who have been much more successful.”
kbusch says
He even answers the usually pest questions about why we don’t “hate” or want to “punish” private equity firms.
bostonshepherd says
How hard will it be to convince voters that Obama has been, is, and will be unable to do his “job”?
BTW, given the president’s performance, it won’t be a hard sell to convince voters that’s not really the job our president should be doing. It’s not the responsibility of the US Government to “create jobs” or “grow the economy.”
dont-get-cute says
The new job of post-peak-oil Presidents is to manage a controlled descent during a long era of contraction, to help people survive a monumental shift in lifestyle as we quit cars and move out of suburban homes and large cities and 95% employment in mainly office jobs in move back into walkable small urban cities and local farms and industry…growth is just done, we’re never going to grow again.
sabutai says
We’re a century ahead of Germany, and they’re growing. While there’s more truth in what you say than you probably suspect, to claim that “growth is just done” is ignorant.
danfromwaltham says
TT an old German lady, she says the major appliances are all made in Germany, I think they practice economic patriotism over there, so they are way ahead of us, who imports junk from Mexico and Asia.
I don’t want anyone getting angry, but Ross Perot, Pat Buchanan, Dick Gephardt, we’re all right in fighting these free trade deals.
Mark L. Bail says
objecting to the “free trade” deals. What Germany has that the United States hasn’t: strong unions with a seat at the table that goes beyond collective bargaining.
In Germany, twenty-five percent of the work force is unionized. In America, we have half of that, and most of the union workers are employed by the government. Unions have input into how things are done. In America, our goal is to pay labor as little as possible and get things as cheap as possible.
That’s why they are making good stuff there. They actually
danfromwaltham says
Shame both Kerry and Kennedy purported NAFTA and GATT.
dont-get-cute says
How far did the Celts get this year? Did the Big Three come back next year?
Mark L. Bail says
From The Guardian:
My guess is that this is a heterodox theory, but it’s interesting.
dont-get-cute says
I’m truly deeply concerned with our future and with responsible government, trying to to give the best possible life to people a hundred years from now, and just next year too. I don’t think that progressives are prudent enough, they have too much faith in science fiction and theoretical ideals and don’t put enough stock in practical reality and the value of nature and morality.
bostonshepherd says
One point I hope Romney makes is that wealth creation is the key to job creation. Not government spending, or “fairness,” or CETA job training.
Progressives talk endlessly about government “investment” in all sorts of things, but for every dollar spent by government, whether on public salaries, subsidizing the movie industry, or “infrastructure,” a dollar is removed from more efficient private sector investment. The private sector requires RETURN. The public sector does not.
Government investment/spending has its place — fundamental research, public infrastructure, national defense. It thinks their investing in electronic gaming start-ups and biotechnology is better or more efficient than letting the private sector do it. But it never (or rarely) is.
Bob Neer says
No government. No public investment. All funds retained by private businesses.
Wealth creation does not exist to any significant degree without a state. That is why failed states are poor: no one can invest, because the future is so uncertain, and anyone who starts to do well in business is soon robbed, one way or another, by everyone else.
That said, we agree balance is the goal. Thus, I agree with your final paragraph. The argument in paragraph 1, however, is ludicrous because it suggests that business leads. In fact, business follows, and only when the environment is made hospitable by the state can a market exist to benefit all.
judy-meredith says
Both paragraphs
danfromwaltham says
Does Somalia have freedom? What is next, Cuba has a better healthcare system, so says Michael Moore.
petr says
Somalia is utterly free from the restraints, constraints and impositions of anything but the law of the gun. That’s, perhaps, undistilled freedom.
Probably (I’m hoping) not the freedom you had in mind…
Mark L. Bail says
666 for the Shepherd’?
mannygoldstein says
Unless you believe that history is wrong.
If wealth creation were the key to job creation, we’d now have full employment and a vibrant economy. Instead, we’ve had an awful economy for a decade or more, and a catastrophe for the last four years. And all the while the 1% got richer, richer, richer, richer. More wealth created, fewer jobs. As it was in the 1920s and so many times before that.
The last time we had a depression, in the 1920s and 1930s, we got out through massive government spending and had 40 years of prosperity for all Americans. History has shown that’s the only way forward.
JHM says
Should you care to look at what I wrote about all this in order to find out what I think about it, you will find that what I don’t know about economics is … well, economics.
Nevertheless, ¿mightn’t it be the case that lots of jobs have in fact been produced by our Baincappin’ Classes in the last decade or so, but they go unnoticed because they are located in Shanghai and Bangalore and so on?
Happy days.
mannygoldstein says
I’d characterize it as moving jobs to low-wage countries – and pocketing some of the cost savings.
petr says
Here’s the thing: when asked how much he paid in taxes, Mitt Romney… wait for it…
… DID NOT KNOW…
Mitt Romney could not answer what is possibly THE FUNDAMENTAL tenet of your (and his) argument: you can’t measure return without knowing principle. Unless Mitt Romney can tell you immediately what he pays in taxes, the entire argument collapses. Donald Trump, similarly, did not know. No person of wealth in this country could probably do so… We had a recent post wherein a great deal of energy, heat and light was spent trying to determine exactly (if anything) what GE paid in taxes. Nobody, I dare say, left the argument with a clear sense of what GE pays. How can wealth creation be a goal when you don’t particularly track it very well?
How can you require a return on an unknown principle? How can you rail against the impact of taxes when you don’t know, in fact, if there is any impact whatsoever? You cannot. Your argument collapses. If we could bribe every last accountant and tax lawyer in the country to keep a tax increase secret from their clients, would anybody with wealth notice?? Would they be able to, with a straight face, continue to rail against government? They cannot.
How can Romneys wealth, as part of a private sector that requires RETURN, do so when he doesn’t know how much that principle is cut into by taxes? How can GE make the claim that taxes are deleterious when it’s entirely unclear if they pay any at all… and certainly PAY MORE for lobbyists and tax avoidance strategies. From a straight business point of view GE might be better of simply paying taxes rather than paying people to avoid taxes… This, for sure, was the case with Enron, who spent most of their returns in a vast shell game: they undoubtedly spent more in tax avoidance than they would if they straight up paid taxes. What’s up with that?
Mitt Romney doesn’t know what he pays in taxes. But he wishes me to believe, and has apparently convinced you, that whatever the amount is, it so severely crimps his style that he claims, in essence, victimhood. I don’t know about you but that rings false to me.
GE presents incredibly complicated, indeed obscurantist, documentation that says they pay taxes and yet pay no taxes. Their lobbyists, like Romney, wishes me to believe, and has apparently convinced you, that whatever the amount is, it’s impactful…
On the other hand, all those harmful taxes do go somewhere: it’s not, as some would wish us to believe, mere confiscatory and punishment. It’s infrastructure. It’s regulation. It’s the part of the government that helps the wealthy get even wealthier… so wealthy they can afford to not know, nor care, what exactly they pay in taxation. When I see NASA send a rocket up, I think taxes. When I’m in Boston and the glorious Zakim bridge hoves into view, I think taxes. Often this view is seen from the public transportation system. More taxes. I have one son a freshman in high school, and my other son will be a freshman next year. I’m impressed with the teachers and am thankful my taxes contribute to their salaries. In my less Christian moments I imagine that the taxes I paid in 2010 purchased the bullet that ended Osama bin Laden.
That’s the return I require from my taxes.
danfromwaltham says
The money Mitt and people like him, pay a low tax rate b/c they already paid taxes on the money they are investing. Don’t you think if the are risking these monies, basically putting them on the line, the reward is a 15% tax rate. It also helps the economy.
petr says
The sums in question, be they from Mitt Romney, Donald Trump or GE are not income, in case you’re under the assumption that they are. They are investments. Mitt Romney has no other income besides investment. You’re thinking about the taxes the accountant pays on the income he/she derives from his/her administration of the actual funds: the pushing of the pencils, as it were…
This makes no sense. Risk doesn’t come with a built in reward… that’s what makes it risk. What risk does the cheat take if his dice are loaded? Where is the risk? The reward comes AFTER the risk, often in proportion, if the risk was carefully assayed, but is not for the risk.
So if the reward that derives from taking the risk is proportionate to the risk, why is it that the taxation should not be proportionate to the reward? If Mitt Romney loses his shirt in a bad investment, I’m OK with the 0% in taxes that’ll result. However if he doubles his principle, then the tax should be increased: me being such a liberal, I’m OK with doubling the tax rate, if only at the margins… but I’m not heartless and would be OK with a less congruent advance: let the tax increase 1% for each half-doubling, for example. What’s wrong with that?
danfromwaltham says
I kinda like your idea on this. Not sure how it would impact the economy, but needs to be examined.
whosmindingdemint says
The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor…The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess…It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more in that proportion.
– Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations
Mr. Lynne says
… making sure you get your fee isn’t risky.
danfromwaltham says
C’mon, how is plowing $100 million into a failing steel company, which goes out of business, liquidating the company. Wall Sreet was a great movie, but just a movie. Dangerous for Obama to go after Mitt on his strength.
Mr. Lynne says
… structure their contract, their fee is the first thing to get paid in any liquidation.
SomervilleTom says
First, be sure you understand the concept of “OPM” — Other People’s Money. Mitt Romney and Bain Capital work very hard to make sure they put OPM at risk, never their own.
Here’s how it worked for the “failing steel company” you bring up — GST Steel:
1. Find a vulnerable target (often a cash-rich company with depressed market value), and invest $8M to buy control of the company. The target is now the “host”. Bain renamed “GST Steel” “GS Technologies”.
2. Force the host to take on new debt to pay back at least some, if not all, of the initial $8M (as well as “new expenses”).
3. Force the host to acquire another firm, forcing the host to take on hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. By 1995, Bain had forced the host to take on a whopping $387M in debt — all of it OPM.
4. Underfund things like pension plans to so that the company can pay out unaffordable dividends to Bain. Don’t forget that failed pension plans are covered by the PBGC, the pension analog of SDIC.
5. Be sure to suck out maximum profit before the dying host expires.
In this case, Bain collected NINE MILLION DOLLARS IN PROFIT, a margin in excess of 100%, on their $8M “investment” of a few years earlier.
The federal government, in the form of the PGBC, had to spend $44M in taxpayer money to bail out the pension fund that Bain & Mitt Romney robbed.
The overwhelming majority of the money Bain put “at risk” was OPM — they were very careful to recover their own funds aggressively and early.
This isn’t a movie, Dan. This is a real-life story of how a predator takes down its prey.
danfromwaltham says
If true, very scary, reminds me of The Alien movie
mannygoldstein says
A Soon-To-Be “Zombie” Ant
In South America, female phorid flies have developed a bizarre reproductive strategy: They hover over fire ants (pictured in a file photo), then inject their eggs into the ants with a needle-like appendage.
The egg grows and the resulting larva generally migrates to the ant’s head. The larva lives there for weeks–slurping up the brain and turning the ant into a “zombie,” in some cases compelling the ant to march 55 yards (50 meters) away from its colony to avoid attack by other fire ants.
Finally, the baby fly decapitates its host and hatches, exiting through the ant’s head, as shown in the pictures in this gallery.
kbusch says
Most of us don’t really identify with fire ants.
whosmindingdemint says
and raise it. Are you saying Romney was so incompetent at what he claims to be so good at that he squandered $100 million?
danfromwaltham says
It is what I read in the WSJ by Kimberley Strassel.
whosmindingdemint says
said Romney is incompetent.
Mr. Lynne says
… it seems then that you’re happy with the public sector hemorrhaging jobs on the theory that the money spent on public salaries is an opportunity cost (waste) to spend the same money more efficiently in the private sector?
danfromwaltham says
Only if they are not needed. Also, their bennies are outrageous.
Mark L. Bail says
and a pension I fund are outrageous benefits?
danfromwaltham says
Oh right, work 10 years for the state or municipality, and get a retiree health care benefit which has been virtually eliminated in the private sector. Pensions, get what 80% of the last five years, your highest earnings!!!!
If social security is so great, join the fun. My 401k is not guaranteed by the taxpayers, like pensions. Don’t get me started, and yes, I hope Gov. walker wins next month, he is making the necessary moves to help the taxpayers and the moves are very, very, very modest.
Mark L. Bail says
irritating: your attitude or your ignorance.
Let’s start with your resentful attitude. My benefits are not outrageous, yours are. Outrageously bad. Prior to the 1980s, private sector workers could count on better benefits. Retirement funds, which were abused/invested by employers for employers benefits, went to to 401k’s. And the unorganized workers of the private sector sucked it up. There was the conservative excuse, of course, that it’s your money and you should be able to invest yourself for a higher yield. How’d that work out? You look at things bassackwards, Dan. You look at what other workers have and want to take it away out of resentment. You don’t complain about the system or the employers that took it away from you. As long as there’s a race to the bottom, you’re happy.
Now for facts. You didn’t bother to ask, but I’m a teacher. We have a separate retirement system. Twenty years ago, we agreed to pay more into the MTRS so that by 2040 it would be fully-funded. Previously, and currently in municipalities, retirement is pay as you go. The administrative costs for the MTRS are low, and since teachers don’t get social security, the system is actually cheaper than it would otherwise be.
Why are all you conservatives coming on here all of a sudden? Isn’t there a comment section on the Boston Herald or NewsMax?
kirth says
It’s bewildering that so many blame organized employees for their own inability to get good benefits. The difference is in the organizing, but of course, unions are evil, so we must all suffer the whims of the corporate overlords.
Full disclosure: I am not a union member, do not have a pension, and am in no way resentful of those who are and do.
danfromwaltham says
Are you guys for real? These great bennies were deserving, like in the 50’s-70’s, but they only exist today because the union support throws money and people behind a candidate, thus the elected candidate pays them back after the election. It is a viscious circle, some would call nefarious relationship between public unions and politicians.
Get off the jealousy soap box. We can’t afford retiree health care benefits anymore. No hate, just reality. Waltham’s second highest budget item is healthcare, and we owe $519 million in hc obligations alone. Taxpayers are tapped out, don’t you fellas realize this?
Curious, when does the DeLeo law start? I think it is not implemented yet. If Waltham and their unions joined the GIC five years ago, we would have saved 30 million over that time. Not too shabby.
Don’t talk to me about social security, they are already talkin about raising the retirement age. Also do you believe that just working 10 years, you deserve a health care retirement. Gawd, I hope not.
John Tehan says
Tiresome…
Mark L. Bail says
attitude or your ignorance that is more irritating. Could they be equally irritating? It’s possible.
Let’s ignore your ad hominems at the beginning and look right at your first bit of incoherence: “These great bennies were deserving, like in the 50′s-70′s…” Benefits deserved workers in the period from the 1950s to the 1970s, but now they don’t? Why don’t benefits deserve workers these days? They were deserving until Reagan? Help me out there, guy. I’m not a grammar snob, but you’re not even next door to making sense.
That nefarious relationship between unions and politicians? It’s called politics, Dan. To speak about the lawful actions as “nefarious” and neglecting the fact that the business community exponentially outspends unions on elections, well, Dan, that’s just real ignorant.
Some taxpayers are tapped out, Dan. That’s because schmucks like you supported tax cuts that radically shifted money from the rest of us to the very rich. Putting aside the economy for a minute–and the huge deficit you guys ran up with your war and unwarranted tax cuts–it’s not that we’re tapped out, we’ve divested from our revenue stream. You guys have been supporting tax cuts while costs have been going up and you blame government?
I won’t talk to you about social security. There are still a couple of walls in my house I haven’t banged my head against and I’ll start there. But isn’t telling me not to talk about something a funny way to carry on a conversation? Gawd, I hope not.
For the record, I believe everyone deserves health care. If that means someone with ten years in before they retire, that’s fine with me. I don’t want to see them stripped of their health care until somehow you can get a better deal. And those retirees? They’ll move into Medicare when they reach 65.
It seems to me that you brought up people retiring with 10 years in and 80% of their top five years. That’s not the case for teachers. A teacher retiring at 60 with 10 years of experience would retire with $16,000 a year in retirement, no social security, and no survivor’s benefit. Here’s the website where you can actually figure that stuff out.
If you’re going to hang around, Dan, bring something to the table. Your value as a punching bag is reaching its end. I’ll step down from my high horse now and correct some papers and check out the Red Sox.
danfromwaltham says
I cannot BELIEEEEEEEEVE you. You think it is fine for someone who works just 10 years, to receive a retiree healthcare benefit on the basis of your own personal belief? That my friend, is called greed or worse, screw the taxpayers, who have taken health care costs on the chin. you know what happens if someone is laid off? Insurance coverage lasts to the end of the month. When you retire, one can get health insurance thru their employer, so long as you pay 100% of the cost. HC costs are why small biz’s are not hiring, a basic family plan will run 20K, and you want to know something else, these plans are designed so you don’t use them!!! It is too expensive, unless you like tossing a few extra grand out before full coverage kicks in. Who wants that?
Kbush answered my 1950’s era bennies comment, thank you man. Nowadays, we have chiefs of fire and police making as much as Gen. Petraeus did running a war and responsible for 150K troops. Ya thing the pay grade for the chiefs are a tad too high? Then at 80% of their base when they retire, my gawd, right?
We all seem to want a single payer healthcare system. Then why pension for public employees, but the rest of the horde gets social security? We all need to pay into this. And, if my wife and I live to 60 and earned the same income through our working career, and let’s say I were to die, she would lose my social security benefit (no minor children). I am willing to bet your pension can be transferred to your spouse, no?
I don’t need to know what people do, bit IMO, teachers are paid a good coin, some deserve more, 6 years in and I am told you become “untouchable” but I don’t really know 4 sure. It is these unaffordable benefits that are breaking the budgets.
Last point, I get the unions have a right to lobby and bribe, I mean donate to politicians. Then who cares if chose donates to Brown or has tea with Obama, everyone is guilty!!
kbusch says
It is often ridiculous to compare how much different professions make. In a market economy, that’s not determined by meritoriousness but by the market. Who knows the supply of and demand for generals?
If you don’t like that, I’m sure some form of socialism will fix it for you.
danfromwaltham says
First I am called a Rep troll, now a socialist advocate.
How about this, why not merge police and fire into one Public Safety Dept for most cities and towns? Kalamazoo Michigan (pop 72k) did this in the 80’s and they save millions each year. In fact, Michigan state employees are on 401-K’s, why not our state employees and politicians?
whosmindingdemint says
.
danfromwaltham says
Demintfan, I suppose you refuse to look at, let alone adopt, the best practices from other states? I forgot, we have all the answers inside 128. You know something, your arrogance offensives me, and perhaps most on this board.
whosmindingdemint says
that I offend you Danny.
Ah yes, the best practices of other states. Michigan: land of emergency managers.
Folks n this board tolerate you. I don’t.
danfromwaltham says
Interesting you say that about Michigan which is a deep blue state.
whosmindingdemint says
interesting that its governor is the reddest of republicans. More interesting yet is that you have no comment on the executive powers of emergency managers to run entire cities with absolute authority.
But the burning question here Dan is this: troll or socialist, which is it?
danfromwaltham says
Jen Granholm was a Republican? Did not know that. When cities are financially cratering, then yes, the voters are too dumb and need someone with absolute power to clean house. Just look at Central Falls R.I.
kbusch says
I don’t know. We probably don’t live in the same town.
kbusch says
Frankly, I don’t understand how you can possibly assert anything you do danfromwaltham. Were you born yesterday? Have you just woken from a very long nap? Just unbelievable how someone like you who can put together complete sentences can assert the things you do.
*
Or stated differently, your protestations of incredulity are unconvincing and easily mocked. I look forward to making a target of them.
whosmindingdemint says
support “Obamacare!”
Mark L. Bail says
a waste of time.
kbusch says
Public sector workers are on average more educated than private sector workers.
Studies from a couple years back showed that public sector workers tend to be underpaid compared to private sector workers of similar education. Furthermore, only some of that difference is made up for in the better benefits received generally by public sector workers.
And yes, healthcare has grown to a huge portion of everything’s budget. Attempts to fix that — by, you know, getting all scientific — are derided as “death panels” populated by “bureaucrats” by Republicans.
whosmindingdemint says
You are shrill and as wrong as the right wing crackpots you are echoing. Take a breath.
Bob Neer says
The light of BMG shines for all 🙂
Mark L. Bail says
mind that fail to stick.
Christopher says
That’s exactly what we need right now, because the more public funds go into stimulus, jobs, etc, the more money is in the pockets of people who will spend it and get the economy moving. The President’s performance is as good as can be expected given an obstinate Congress.
topper says
Well, I guess if you don’t want to run on your record you try to finesse the other guy…
Christopher says
Ed Randell is now on Hardball complaining about the tone of the anti-Bain ads. Those ads are not nearly as nasty as the swift boat ads. I like that Democrats aren’t nasty, but bringing a knife to a gun fight isn’t a good idea either. Romney’s record at Bain should be hammered especially since that is how he is selling himself. Between that and MA being 47th in the nation in job growth during his governorship he has a lot of nerve running as a job creator.
kbusch says
On one side, this may be explicable by who funds Mr Rendell’s campaigns. The other side of it though is that lots of sentimental liberals don’t like the world divided into us vs them. They like their politics with a big dose of Kumbaya. The died-in-the-wool-Kumabyaist will complain that the misdeeds enumerated about Wall Street have led to “negative stereotypes” and everyone is an individual and you shouldn’t judge a whole class of people by the misdeeds of a few.
A misguided way to look at the distortions caused by the weak regulation and moral hazard, but people are what they are.
danfromwaltham says
Won’t Mitt just say the MA unemployment in Jan 2007 was 4.7%?
Christopher says
Regarding your comment about pensions, yes the private sector is getting the shaft, but you should be fighting to raise them up rather than tearing the public sector down. Anything that puts more money in the pockets of the middle and working classes is economically stimulative. I don’t know what you do for a living, but maybe you should be organized.
Regarding taxing investments, yes the invested money was taxed when it was made, but the return profit made on investment should be taxed as income. I don’t see how the GOP can say they favor job creators and clearly hate the people who fill those jobs.
danfromwaltham says
Many work in a global economy where a simple click of a mouse, and your job has been relocated to another state or country. Organized? Most are happy the badge still opens the door to get into work.
My beef with many muni employees is their resistance to migrating to the GIC. Some town have like Brookline and Melrose, but most still have not, while everyone else not only is paying real health care costs ie. out of pocket deductibles and premiums, we are paying for Cadillac plans for muni workers.
Mark L. Bail says
The legislature already passed legislation requiring municipalities to join the GIC or enter into a cooperative that is of equivalent cost. It’s done, Dan.
And our plans are not Cadillac plans. Those barely exist.
danfromwaltham says
Is it being implemented now or in a year or two? Waltham’s family plan is worth over 30K, so it is diamond-studded.
Mark L. Bail says
in this fiscal year. I was already informed of the changes–don’t ask me the specifics I lost the paper. My copays go up for some stuff. I can’t speak for Waltham, but my family plan costs about half that and I pay half.
Here’s the Mass Municipal Association site that has the info. See the second and third .pdf’s.
danfromwaltham says
Thanks.
kbusch says
I’m curious whether other liberals think that this response from Obama is effective or not. (As I already know what the conservatives are going to say, I have no curiosity about that whatever.)
Is the distinction he’s drawing clear or too wonky?
Christopher says
Don’t just be happy your badge gets you inside. Demand a seat at the table; demand policies to incentivize jobs here and disincentivize sending jobs overseas. I am encouraged that you have expressed support for single-payer as I think we can agree that would go a long way toward addressing this.
whosmindingdemint says
“Jen Granholm was a Republican? Did not know that. When cities are financially cratering, then yes, the voters are too dumb and need someone with absolute power to clean house. Just look at Central Falls R.I.”
danfromwaltham says
What are you trying to say, man? Spit it out!
whosmindingdemint says
but lost heart.
So I’ll try it again. Snyder is the current Gov. with a capital R. And your notion of martial law on cities isn’t like any America I know of. Nor is these managers ability to fire elected officials sound like any democracy I know.
But I’m glad you see Michigan as a paragon; it must be because of the economy created by the GM bailout.
Mr. Lynne says
… inside manipulation of municipal policy:
danfromwaltham says
Sounds like Deval Patrick. He won’t sell the Fernald Land to the City of Waltham, without strings attached. Yep, he wants affordable housing in there, while the city wants parks, trails, and a rehab facility for the elderly. Nice guy, right?
Thankfully, we control the zoning, so it is a stalemate.
Mr. Lynne says
The Pontiac situation doesn’t remotely look like the Waltham one. Is non sequitur another dan shtick?
danfromwaltham says
What would you call what Deval is doing then?
Mr. Lynne says
… talking about Deval. I was talking about Pontiac, which was a clear case of inside corruption. I don’t know enough about Fernald’s disposition to comment intelligently other than what you described, which as I said before, isn’t related.
Besides, you sure it’s Deval and not other interested parties?
Mark L. Bail says
non-sequitur who drops issues like the sky drops rain, but he’s enormously pleased with himself. It will take a while until he either improves or leaves.
danfromwaltham says
A city that can’t pay it’s bills and is put under receivership, is now considered martial law in your eyes. See what happens when police and fire are not paid and walk off the job. Look like Baghdad shortly after Saddam left.
whosmindingdemint says
But instead you are obvious. “Receivership” is your word, not mine. Receivership involves the courts, not the case in Michigan, which is pure abdication of the legislature to the executive. When Caesar appoints a proconsul, it is martial law.
But since you have no idea what the fk you are talking about and fling shit to see if it sticks, I’m wasting my breath.
danfromwaltham says
One would think MSNBC would be all over this martial law tactic by the evil R governor of MI. Then again, perhaps voters agree with him, seeing how Detroit has lost 40% of their population. Would this martial law take place if the cities and towns were able to pay the bills? Who ran them into the ground, George Bush? Who made promises to unions that they can no longer keep?
Do you and the teacher have pet snakes? The two of you seem bitter and not open to other ideas or thoughts. Peter and Tom are very nice, and we seem to meet at a common ground or at least not shank someone who is not drunk from the spiked kool aid that you both have your snouts in.
Mark L. Bail says
Come out from under the bridge, leave the Billy Goats Gruff alone, and click on my name and read some posts or comments. Then tell me what I seem like.
You’re not adding anything to the conversation. I give you a response, you pick the parts you want to respond to, and instead of telling me why my argument is wrong, you offer useless stuff like
It’s clear what you believe, but it’s not interesting. What you offer for an argument or evidence might be of interest, but so far you’ve offered nothing. If you could give me a decent critique of why I’m wrong, that might be interesting, but you don’t even make sense. You criticize me for saying something “on the basis of [my] own personal belief?” What does that even mean?
If you want respect, earn it.
danfromwaltham says
People like marks ail, is the reason why Gov. Walker will win the recall election in Wisconsin. Don’t blame the loss on a weak candidate, the Koch bothers, bad message, ect. Just read what that jabroni wrote. He is blinded by a feeling that everyone deserves health insurance, And SCREW the taxpayers, who are being asked to pay more and more in taxes, and get less services, because the unions negotiated a rule that working just 10 years for the state or muni, one gets a retiree health care benefit, which does not exist in the private sector.
Oh wait, I forgot. Those who work for the state or muni were drafted, right? Or better yet, he says that is what we ger for electing Bush and Reagan and any politician who cuts taxes on the top earners. SSHHHHHH, don’t let anyone know JFK cut the top rate in 1961, that is a dirty little secret.
Let me type slowly. Nobody in the private sector gets a retiree health care benefit. Now, a case can be made if worked 25 years, sure that would be understandable. But just 10????? Really? Grab what you can, right? The taxpayers can do with less. Worse case, do a prop 2 1/2 override, no biggie.
Mark L. Bail says
I’m too cranky right now to give you a full and fair reply. I see what you’re saying, but don’t agree. However, this issue, you’ll be glad to know, is also something the MMA is working on.
For now, suffice it to say, I find your poor taxpayer rhetoric overblown. Taxes at the federal and state level have dropped significantly over the last 30 years, but the problem is compensation for public employees. You imply it’s a matter of fairness, but neglect the fact that the private sector has treated private sector employees poorly. You accept that as a fact of life. I didn’t have to be, but since you don’t care about that, you want to make sure public employees are brought down to your level. It wasn’t until the private sector and tax policy started to shift income and compensation upward that public employees became a target by the privately employed.
danfromwaltham says
Finally, someone acknowledges what I am saying, thanks for taking the blinders off. Does Demintfan and Tommy Boy know about this?
Seriously, thanks for looking at my point of view, glad to hear the MMA is working on this, but long overdue.
IMO, we can thank the decline in private sector benefits due to all these free tade deals, supported by Republicans, signed by Clinton, and supported by Kennedy and Kerry. They threw the private sector unions under the bus with their votes for NAFTA and GATT. You know Rick Santorum voted against NAFTA? Perhaps growing up poor made him more aware, than the millionaires like Kerry and Kennedy. On that vote, check goes to Santorum, right?
Have a great weekend Mark.
Mr. Lynne says
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4EaxRolGXA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKumNQcCkSA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBzkuiD6LD0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TH10Einkkg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKumNQcCkSA
kbusch says
I hadn’t been paying attention to Michigan. Pretty horrific.
whosmindingdemint says
Is there anything else? No? OK. Well, you seem to think the “evil R governor” is some kind of hot shit leader type.
I don’t and you will be hard pressed to find anyone here wwho does.
Don’t waste your time. I’ll give Tom and Peter – who I know about as well as you do – your regards danfrom waltham.
danfromwaltham says
My bad, I thought you equated the MI R Gov (no idea who he is) as a Caesar.
whosmindingdemint says
I rest my case.
danfromwaltham says
Who ran these cities and towns into the ground so that Caesar Snyder instituted martial law, as you call it. Answer the question!!! Oh wait, you didn’t…….case dismissed.
whosmindingdemint says
OK, it was black people…and native americans, and the olds and gays, that’s who. Now you can sleep safe in your bed knowing that it had nothing to do with the worst economic recession since the great depression and nothing to do with Bush’s tax cuts.
The Waltham budget must be looking good these days! Or is secretly becoming the next Central Falls? Better sleep with one eye open, Dan.
danfromwaltham says
I guess when asking for a simple fact, you go off on a hissy fit.
Actually, I sleep like a baby, b/c even though we can’t even legally light a sparkler in this state, the second amendment is still a right, so yep, sleep like a log, safe and secure with no worries. Night now 🙂
whosmindingdemint says
they reach for the 2nd amendment.
Ooh, scary.
dcsohl says
So you do know how to hit the “reply” link, whosmindingdemint! Why do you do it so rarely? It’s very hard to follow conversations when every response from you is placed at the top level.
whosmindingdemint says
and sometimes I do not.
It’s…complicated
John Tehan says
IE is a piece of shit “browser” that Microsoft thinks everyone should love, but it does some very screwy things to your internet experience, like making commenting on WordPress blogs a crap shoot when it comes to replying. People who enjoy the internet should use Firefox or Chrome, and relegate IE to the dustbin of history.
Christopher says
…MSNBC HAS been all over the story about cancelling democracy in Michigan. Second, there is the principle of allowing people to determine their own destiny. I don’t mind the state using carrots and sticks to determine if they will prop up the local budget. However, just powers derive from the consent of the governed. Also, there’s almost always a way if there is a will to pay the local bills, even if it means (gasp!) raising taxes.
danfromwaltham says
Hey Chris. I agree, let the people determine their own destiny. So I make a point that Deval won’t sell Waltham the 200 acres at Fernald b/c he wants us to do what he feels is right (sounds like someone I know). All of a sudden, I’m accused of being off topic or we can’t dare say something negative of our dear leader?
Let the cities and towns raise taxes. But my hunch is, they are rattling the tin cup in the face of Caesar Snyder, and he ain’t having it. Should they start a recall in MI? Ed Schultz doing a show from there? I believe elections have consequences.
Before a dime in taxes are raised, every excessive spending needs to be wrung out. Perhaps Snyder R-Evil, is doing just that.
whosmindingdemint says
But not so consequential that elected officials can’t be fired by Caesar Snyder (nice one!) Time to wring you out.
danfromwaltham says
Then they should stop rattling the tin cup!!!! You don’t get it.
whosmindingdemint says
the world is full of beggars
Mr. Lynne says
… because your new topic was completely new and unrelated.
It doesn’t take a genius to see this, no matter how emphatic the indignation.
danfromwaltham says
Chris wrote there is a principle of allowing people to determine their own destiny. Then I respond about how Dear Leader Deval will not allow the people of Waltham determine what the appropriate use of the Fernald propery. Duh!
Mr. Lynne says
… apples to oranges and it was pointed out. So naturally it’s about Deval and not you.
SomervilleTom says
I think it’s time to turn on the “bozo bit” next to his name and ignore him.
danfromwaltham says
Gee, I thought we got along. Before you petition the owners of this site it ban me, can I get Bob on the record if he would favor raising taxes on private universities, like Harvard, who sits on 32 billion in ther endowment. Can you do that Tommy? I asked him twice, but he ignored me, or is done with me, I guess.
Peter, you are all I have, don’t throw me under the bus.