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	<title>Comments on: A success story</title>
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	<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/</link>
	<description>Reality-based commentary on politics and policy in Massachusetts and around the nation</description>
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		<title>By: roarkarchitect</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-297182</link>
		<dc:creator>roarkarchitect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 11:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-297182</guid>
		<description>The non-union workers will  never see the benefits - who is being taken advantage of?

The wage scale because of the prevailing wage law is exactly the same for union and non-union workers.

Firms with unions can be competitive but they need to compete. UPS has a strong union - but the entire organization is  efficient and competes well.

The US shipping building industry - has the equivalent of a &quot;PLA&quot; and the industry has died - instead ships get built in Finland - this is sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The non-union workers will  never see the benefits &#8211; who is being taken advantage of?</p>
<p>The wage scale because of the prevailing wage law is exactly the same for union and non-union workers.</p>
<p>Firms with unions can be competitive but they need to compete. UPS has a strong union &#8211; but the entire organization is  efficient and competes well.</p>
<p>The US shipping building industry &#8211; has the equivalent of a &#8220;PLA&#8221; and the industry has died &#8211; instead ships get built in Finland &#8211; this is sad.</p>
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		<title>By: whosmindingdemint</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-297081</link>
		<dc:creator>whosmindingdemint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 23:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-297081</guid>
		<description>Non union workers can also work on PLA projects by agreeing to work under the terms and conditions of project labor agreements.
I believe in a fair and livable wage for work performed and a safe work environment and I expect the same from my employer. Non-union workers  not on PLA projects are not because their employers don&#039;t want to pay them union level wages and benefits, even temporarily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Non union workers can also work on PLA projects by agreeing to work under the terms and conditions of project labor agreements.<br />
I believe in a fair and livable wage for work performed and a safe work environment and I expect the same from my employer. Non-union workers  not on PLA projects are not because their employers don&#8217;t want to pay them union level wages and benefits, even temporarily.</p>
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		<title>By: roarkarchitect</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-297078</link>
		<dc:creator>roarkarchitect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 21:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-297078</guid>
		<description>* Workers get paid the same if union or non-union 
* If  Union contractors are more efficient their bid would be lower 
* Private contractors and unions both have apprentice programs 

PLAs remind me of being forced to by a car from GM or Ford - and not being allowed to buy a Honda because the car was made in a non-union shop. You would end up  with very expensive poor quality cars - just like the 1970s.

I don&#039;t think PLAs were the primary problem with the &quot;BIG DIG&quot; - but if there was not a PLA agreement the costs would be less - up to 15% less  - considering the project cost close to 20B - imagine what we could do with  3B. You could fund construction in the state - lower taxes - fund DMH -  there are a lot of possibilities with 3B.

I believe in person and economic freedom. PLAs restrict the economic  right of construction workers to work for the firm they wish and  contractors to bid and build projects they are capable of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>* Workers get paid the same if union or non-union<br />
* If  Union contractors are more efficient their bid would be lower<br />
* Private contractors and unions both have apprentice programs </p>
<p>PLAs remind me of being forced to by a car from GM or Ford &#8211; and not being allowed to buy a Honda because the car was made in a non-union shop. You would end up  with very expensive poor quality cars &#8211; just like the 1970s.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think PLAs were the primary problem with the &#8220;BIG DIG&#8221; &#8211; but if there was not a PLA agreement the costs would be less &#8211; up to 15% less  &#8211; considering the project cost close to 20B &#8211; imagine what we could do with  3B. You could fund construction in the state &#8211; lower taxes &#8211; fund DMH &#8211;  there are a lot of possibilities with 3B.</p>
<p>I believe in person and economic freedom. PLAs restrict the economic  right of construction workers to work for the firm they wish and  contractors to bid and build projects they are capable of.</p>
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		<title>By: whosmindingdemint</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-297036</link>
		<dc:creator>whosmindingdemint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 22:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-297036</guid>
		<description>but I suspect you are more &quot;Roark&quot; and less architect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but I suspect you are more &#8220;Roark&#8221; and less architect.</p>
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		<title>By: roarkarchitect</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-297032</link>
		<dc:creator>roarkarchitect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-297032</guid>
		<description>Both union and non-union employers offer apprenticeship programs - most licensed professions require 1000s of hours training  as an apprentice and in the classroom.  

The big dig was built under a PLA  - and was not overwhelming successful for quality of construction, design or budget.

Our state and country has a need for quality construction - both union and non-union contractors can offer this - let all firms bid.  PLAs are just a political payoff to unions and union contractors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both union and non-union employers offer apprenticeship programs &#8211; most licensed professions require 1000s of hours training  as an apprentice and in the classroom.  </p>
<p>The big dig was built under a PLA  &#8211; and was not overwhelming successful for quality of construction, design or budget.</p>
<p>Our state and country has a need for quality construction &#8211; both union and non-union contractors can offer this &#8211; let all firms bid.  PLAs are just a political payoff to unions and union contractors.</p>
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		<title>By: whosmindingdemint</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296992</link>
		<dc:creator>whosmindingdemint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296992</guid>
		<description>&quot;If project labor agreements are unfair to taxpayers, they are also unfair to the thousands of nonunion construction workers in the Commonwealth. Those workers and the firms that employ them aren’t asking that construction jobs be designated specifically for nonunion firms. Rather, they are simply seeking to compete on a level playing field for state work.&quot;

If non-union shops want a level playing field than they need to become union shops. Union made work is far superior to non-union labor for many reasons, mostly because the trades are organized and the apprenticeship programs are outstanding, resulting in the taxpayer getting what they pay for.

What is always left unsaid in these arguments ( and never reflected in polls by &quot;market-oriented&quot; research groups) is that union labor is hired by non-union companies; wages are set by union contracts but acceleration costs, production rates etc are negotiated between sub contractor companies, GC or CM&#039;s and owners. So after the change orders are submitted and paid, it isn&#039;t the union mechanic that is buying the new boat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If project labor agreements are unfair to taxpayers, they are also unfair to the thousands of nonunion construction workers in the Commonwealth. Those workers and the firms that employ them aren’t asking that construction jobs be designated specifically for nonunion firms. Rather, they are simply seeking to compete on a level playing field for state work.&#8221;</p>
<p>If non-union shops want a level playing field than they need to become union shops. Union made work is far superior to non-union labor for many reasons, mostly because the trades are organized and the apprenticeship programs are outstanding, resulting in the taxpayer getting what they pay for.</p>
<p>What is always left unsaid in these arguments ( and never reflected in polls by &#8220;market-oriented&#8221; research groups) is that union labor is hired by non-union companies; wages are set by union contracts but acceleration costs, production rates etc are negotiated between sub contractor companies, GC or CM&#8217;s and owners. So after the change orders are submitted and paid, it isn&#8217;t the union mechanic that is buying the new boat.</p>
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		<title>By: roarkarchitect</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296991</link>
		<dc:creator>roarkarchitect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296991</guid>
		<description>So Governor Patrick&#039;s house was built by non-union workers - but unions  are required when used on public construction ?

PLA agreements are crony capitalism - construction funds paid for by our tax dollars are directed only to firms that use union labor. These construction firms and their union allies then spend money earned from these public projects to lobby for more PLA projects. I would call this &quot;re-enforcing and enhancing personal advantages&quot;.

Union firms should be able to compete with the non-union firms - and by law the workers on public projects  get paid the same whether they are union or not (Prevailing wage law).  PLA just restrict the number of firms bidding and raise the prices on public construction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Governor Patrick&#8217;s house was built by non-union workers &#8211; but unions  are required when used on public construction ?</p>
<p>PLA agreements are crony capitalism &#8211; construction funds paid for by our tax dollars are directed only to firms that use union labor. These construction firms and their union allies then spend money earned from these public projects to lobby for more PLA projects. I would call this &#8220;re-enforcing and enhancing personal advantages&#8221;.</p>
<p>Union firms should be able to compete with the non-union firms &#8211; and by law the workers on public projects  get paid the same whether they are union or not (Prevailing wage law).  PLA just restrict the number of firms bidding and raise the prices on public construction.</p>
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		<title>By: petr</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296937</link>
		<dc:creator>petr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296937</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Even though taxes come from both union and non-union households – in Massachusetts – on large projects only union workers and companies are allowed to bid – Boston Globe July Editorial

This is crony capitalism and unfair to non-union construction workers and firms.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Crony capitalism rests upon personal, and mutually advantageous, relationships for the sole purpose of re-enforcing and enhancing personal advantages. 

Unions power and primacy rests upon a solid history of mutually destructive relationships based upon exploitation and inequality. 

You hate unions because they are a standing, and ringing, affirmation of your inability to exploit.  Whatever else you think you think about them, that&#039;s the foundation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Even though taxes come from both union and non-union households – in Massachusetts – on large projects only union workers and companies are allowed to bid – Boston Globe July Editorial</p>
<p>This is crony capitalism and unfair to non-union construction workers and firms.</p></blockquote>
<p>Crony capitalism rests upon personal, and mutually advantageous, relationships for the sole purpose of re-enforcing and enhancing personal advantages. </p>
<p>Unions power and primacy rests upon a solid history of mutually destructive relationships based upon exploitation and inequality. </p>
<p>You hate unions because they are a standing, and ringing, affirmation of your inability to exploit.  Whatever else you think you think about them, that&#8217;s the foundation.</p>
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		<title>By: christopher</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296837</link>
		<dc:creator>christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296837</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s an honest manifestation of the values of our government, which says that we believe public money should be used to support companies wherein the employees thereof can guarantee a certain degree of fair treatment through union organization.  Crony capitalism would be if a particular construction company were chosen based on friendship between the company owner and the person making the contracting decision for the Commonwealth.  Of course, if all such companies were unionized we wouldn&#039;t have to make this choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an honest manifestation of the values of our government, which says that we believe public money should be used to support companies wherein the employees thereof can guarantee a certain degree of fair treatment through union organization.  Crony capitalism would be if a particular construction company were chosen based on friendship between the company owner and the person making the contracting decision for the Commonwealth.  Of course, if all such companies were unionized we wouldn&#8217;t have to make this choice.</p>
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		<title>By: roarkarchitect</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296832</link>
		<dc:creator>roarkarchitect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296832</guid>
		<description>Even though taxes come from both union and non-union households  - in Massachusetts - on large projects only union workers  and companies are allowed to bid   - &lt;a href=&quot;http://articles.boston.com/2012-07-24/editorials/32808676_1_project-labor-agreements-nonunion-firms-highway-projects&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Boston Globe July Editorial  &lt;/a&gt;

This is crony capitalism and unfair to non-union construction workers and firms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though taxes come from both union and non-union households  &#8211; in Massachusetts &#8211; on large projects only union workers  and companies are allowed to bid   &#8211; <a href="http://articles.boston.com/2012-07-24/editorials/32808676_1_project-labor-agreements-nonunion-firms-highway-projects" rel="nofollow">Boston Globe July Editorial  </a></p>
<p>This is crony capitalism and unfair to non-union construction workers and firms.</p>
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		<title>By: johnt001</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296796</link>
		<dc:creator>johnt001</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296796</guid>
		<description>Please elaborate - what taxes has Obama increased?  And now you&#039;re saying Obama is a capitalist - first a state capitalist (fascist?), then a crony capitalist?  Last week he was a Kenyan Muslim socialist, but now he&#039;s a Kenyan Muslim socialist fascist capitalist?  Will you be adding communist next week?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please elaborate &#8211; what taxes has Obama increased?  And now you&#8217;re saying Obama is a capitalist &#8211; first a state capitalist (fascist?), then a crony capitalist?  Last week he was a Kenyan Muslim socialist, but now he&#8217;s a Kenyan Muslim socialist fascist capitalist?  Will you be adding communist next week?</p>
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		<title>By: methuenprogressive</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296788</link>
		<dc:creator>methuenprogressive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 04:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296788</guid>
		<description>Bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bullshit.</p>
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		<title>By: johnk</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296783</link>
		<dc:creator>johnk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 02:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296783</guid>
		<description>created by the Republicans and Bush because that worked out so well for the economy.  Oh, wait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>created by the Republicans and Bush because that worked out so well for the economy.  Oh, wait.</p>
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		<title>By: seascraper</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296780</link>
		<dc:creator>seascraper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 02:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296780</guid>
		<description>Trying to save Obama&#039;s bacon is impossible. He introduces a successful person and then mocks them for thinking they are smart. He then goes on to enumerate government contributions. Then you guys are claiming he wanders off and says that the successful person didn&#039;t create roads and bridges, and he&#039;s not talking about the private business any more? It&#039;s not credible. 

He didn&#039;t say that some Bain guy thinks he&#039;s smart. Some connected Wall Streeter doesn&#039;t claim to have great ideas, he claims great connections with Senate staffers and regulators. Obama attacked the Main Street business entrepreneur. 

The real problem is that Obama&#039;s reasoning, even if we give him a huge benefit of the doubt, is an argument for state capitalism and inevitably crony capitalism. It&#039;s an argument for big spending on military projects, road projects even though the country is paved over, government knocking down your house and building an office park, and then taking big taxes from both huge construction contractors like Halliburton and also all the Main Street businesses of a size to be developed by that one smart person. 

Those Main Street businesses are not the ones wrecking the economy, buying up government influence and using that to wipe out their competitors. The enemy are those companies big enough to buy favorable government policies and payouts, and high taxes which will kill their smaller competitors. And that&#039;s exactly the effect of Obama&#039;s tax increases, those are exactly the people who will get hit and destroyed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trying to save Obama&#8217;s bacon is impossible. He introduces a successful person and then mocks them for thinking they are smart. He then goes on to enumerate government contributions. Then you guys are claiming he wanders off and says that the successful person didn&#8217;t create roads and bridges, and he&#8217;s not talking about the private business any more? It&#8217;s not credible. </p>
<p>He didn&#8217;t say that some Bain guy thinks he&#8217;s smart. Some connected Wall Streeter doesn&#8217;t claim to have great ideas, he claims great connections with Senate staffers and regulators. Obama attacked the Main Street business entrepreneur. </p>
<p>The real problem is that Obama&#8217;s reasoning, even if we give him a huge benefit of the doubt, is an argument for state capitalism and inevitably crony capitalism. It&#8217;s an argument for big spending on military projects, road projects even though the country is paved over, government knocking down your house and building an office park, and then taking big taxes from both huge construction contractors like Halliburton and also all the Main Street businesses of a size to be developed by that one smart person. </p>
<p>Those Main Street businesses are not the ones wrecking the economy, buying up government influence and using that to wipe out their competitors. The enemy are those companies big enough to buy favorable government policies and payouts, and high taxes which will kill their smaller competitors. And that&#8217;s exactly the effect of Obama&#8217;s tax increases, those are exactly the people who will get hit and destroyed.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/07/a-success-story/#comment-296687</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemassgroup.com/?p=45021#comment-296687</guid>
		<description>The guy sounds like a damn socialist to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The guy sounds like a damn socialist to me.</p>
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