More than a third of the city’s retired firefighters and police officers are drawing disability pensions that cost the retirement system and city taxpayers much more than regular retirement benefits.
While city officials and pension reform advocates agree the city is rightly obligated to provide for workers truly injured on the job who aren’t able to work because of their injuries, critics argue the high percentage of public safety retirees claiming expensive disability pensions clearly indicates abuse of the system.
Seriously, we have been discussing unions for a few days now and how valuable they are and what wonderful things they do for employees. I have spoken to state workers about their pensions and they cringe when they read stories like this. IT’S INSANE!!!!
In Worcester, 38 percent of public safety retirees draw disability pensions compared to 8 percent of other city retirees, according to a Telegram & Gazette analysis of Worcester Retirement Board data obtained under the state Public Records Law. The latter figure does not include teachers, who are covered under a statewide retirement system.
There should be a Federal Grand Jury summoned to find out how these guys are cheating tax payers of their money. And you guys would be pissed and not defend this type of abuse. Do you really thing 38% of public safety workers need to retire with a disability? Really. Remember that every dollar that goes to one of these cheats its a dollar that will not go to…
Worcester education
Worcester Social Services
Youth programs
Public Housing
Capital equipment
Off set rising healthcare costs
The costs are staggering…
Of the city’s 449 disability retirees, 169 are projected to receive more than $1 million in pension payments tax free. Disability pensioners range in age from 39 to 100, according to retirement board records.
And yes, it is sucking the life out of the tax payers and businesses that are trying to survive in Worcester. Please don’t cite some case of a Firefighter who fell down a ladder and is paralyzed. I want a person like that to get his pension and be on disability, that’s what this program is for and I support wholeheartedly. It’s the blatant abuse that makes me so ebullient. And the defense of things like that by the likes of union supporters here on BMG. How can it be defended. The only people to win are the “criminal” abusers.
Remember Albert Aroyyo. Yes he was found innocent, but he is stealing money from Boston tax payers every day. He is a shining example as are these Worcester crooks of why people are angry at unions and about why the unionized public employees are destroying the cities/town’s budgets, sometimes forcing them into bankruptcy.
BMG’s silence on these abuses (San Bernadino, Stockton, Scranton…) is very telling. Charge these law breakers but more importantly, change the GD laws/rules to stop the siphoning of tax dollars. How can you defend this?
Christopher says
What I will say is statements like this
are pretty meaningless in my mind. I think the better comparison would be to claims by the same sector in other cities rather than other sectors in the same city. If it is in fact an outlier it might be worth an audit, but i’m not going to automatically assume the worst. Each case must be taken on its own merits.
johnd says
Thank the unions for everyone having to foot these criminal’s bills while they vacation on Cape Cod all summer.
jconway says
I think a lot of unions have been under fire unfairly, but the ‘rubber rooms’ in the NYC public schools were real as are these abuses. I am very upset at these abuses, my dad was severely disabled in 1968 when he was a teenager and managed to work a very physical and stressful job for nearly twenty five years before arthritis forced him to get knee replacements and ended his ability to do this work. Only then did he get on disability, and arguably he had a right to since 1968. There is a lot of abuse in the system and this progressive feels that these people prevent those that actually earned the compensation from receiving it. Without my moms union pension and medicare my dad would be unable to get pay on his SSD checks alone, I am sure we could raise benefits if we make receiving them a lot stricter. An audit is appropriate and unions should welcome it, in this day and age they are needed now more than ever, especially in the public sector, but statistics like this severely undermine their arguments and its time they crack down on their own and clean house so their just demands for a fair shake can be heard without any reservations.
Also for the record those two unions endorsed Brown. Just saying.
nopolitician says
People love to have outrage over the “rubber rooms”, but do you know what they were for? They were there for teachers who were accused of improper actions but who had not yet had their situation reviewed by administration.
So let’s say a student accuses a teacher of doing something wrong. You can’t just fire the teacher based on the accusation. But you can’t keep the teacher in the classroom since he’s been accused. You could send him home with pay – but the public doesn’t like the idea of teachers being paid to sit at home, so they want the teachers to have to report to work. Solution? Make the teachers come to work and sit in a room.
Why did it take so long? Because the city had just a handful of arbitrators on staff to review such cases.
Now let’s say that the process works itself out and the accusation can’t be proven. But the principal doesn’t really like the teacher anyway, so he wants to fire him. However, the principal doesn’t really have any justification for firing him – just doesn’t like the guy. No poor reviews, nothing bad on him. So he keeps the guy in the rubber room, trying to sweat him into quitting.
Here’s the problem with being a public school teacher in NYC – there is a single employer for all of the city. So if you get fired, what do you do? You have to move or change careers, or possibly go to one of the few private schools. it’s not like being fired from your accounting job where there are 100 other companies you can apply at. You’re out of luck in NYC, so the firing process *should* be based on more than a principal not liking you.
A widely publicized case was one teacher accused of trying to kiss a student while alone with her in a classroom. He was brought up on criminal charges, but was acquitted. The administration refuses to put him back in a classroom. Should he quit? Why should he? The administration should either make the case that he’s a bad teacher or put him back in the classroom. An unfounded accusation should not terminate someone’s career.
David says
John, that is a ridiculous comment. And I think you know that. So why say it?
johnd says
I don’t know how issues like this become so partisan but seriously. jconway’s remarks above are perfect. He is a benefactor of the disability system and it sounds like the system worked as designed for his Father. He is also upset at the abuse and says so. I support pensions and I support disability when it is deserved but I abhor the individual abuses and in some cases the systemic abuse built in laws/rules.
But when I criticize this abuse, many BMGers run in to defend the unions. This looks like a clear case of abuse and yet you and others are silent. And yes, I interpret silence and an implicit endorsement. Silence…
kirth says
If you don’t think that firefighting and police work are dangerous and unhealthy, then it’s you who are “INSANE!!!”
johnd says
or simply out of touch with reality. However the Albert Arroyos of the world are ruining things for the legitimately injured Firefighters and police. 38% of Worcester public service employees going out disabled, be serious!
kirth says
Why do you cite a comparison of police and firefighters disability rates to those of other workers? You may not explicitly say so, but your use of the comparison clearly implies that all those professions are equally risky. There are abuses in private-sector disability systems, too. It is not helpful to smear entire classes of workers because of the abuses of a few. Your use of the article that uses unnamed “critics” to do that smearing puts you in that camp. If you have any actual data showing higher prevalence of abuse, bring it out. Otherwise, it’s just more of your usual union-bashing.
johnd says
I hear what you are saying but I’ll stick by my “this smells really bad” visceral feeling backed by stories like this. If you believe there are not police and firefighters taking advantage of this system, then you are either naive or…
And this absolutely IS part of my union bashing. Just think how hard it would be to bash unions if they got rid of things like this. But they don’t. They make everything a big deal. It ALL MONEY. What, you want to test Firefighters for drugs just because a few guys were drunk/high when they went to a fire and were killed. Then you have to pay us more money and for that we’ll submit to drug testing, otherwise, nope! Is that an example of caring about their people or extortion?
Christopher says
…as not knowing the situations in San Bernadino, Stockton, and Scranton. I for one have absolutely no idea what you are refering to. Of course they are not in MA so generally not as much on BMG’s radar. Plus we don’t like to get into “regularly scheduled condemnations”.
johnd says
WOuld my silence have been a message but I assure there is no confusion over how someone feels when they SPEAK OUT!
johnd says
It’s not hard to find out about problems…
David says
that Akin became the top national story overnight, with repercussions for every race in the country, including Warren/Brown?
Of course you noticed – you know full well that it did. Whereas a local pension kerfuffle in California is, well, just that. You want to read about that, try Calitics.
As for whether we should “find out” about pension issues elsewhere, that’s totally ridiculous. If you want to start a blog devoted to talking about pension abuses around the country, be my guest. That’s not our mission here.
johnd says
And please don’t ignore that fact that Republican stories always seem to have national implications but when I bring up “Democrat” stories, they are local and not interesting to BMG. Very odd.
How’s this, pension abuse is putting cities and towns in bankruptcy and/or destroying their budgets all over the country including in our state. The examples I cited are in other states but if you don’t think it’s happening here you’re naive. In addition to pensions, we have the burden of OPEBs (Other Post Employment Benefits) are also squeezing budgets. Yes David, this is a huge problem which we should be talking about here on BMG.
merrimackguy says
Public Safety employees go out at higher rates than the private sector because they can. I think in 30 years of work I have known two people to go out on disability.
Here’s another situtation, this one Warwick. http://warwickonline.com/stories/City-police-fire-disability-payments-top-8M-a-year,38351
When the current polica chief of Lawrence took over (this is from him personally) the average time out from the police version of workers comp (so short term) was 4 times the state average. Aggressive monitoring brought it down to the state average.
Has anyone read the NYT article on the Long Island Railroad? This has resulted in criminal prosecutions.
I think any system where the benefit is great, the rules are vague and the enforcement is lax you will have abuse. In Haverhill they had the big EMT certification scandal. Andover had almost the same process, but with an added control to prevent fraud, so problems.
When I lived in MI in the 70’s there was widespread fraud (discovered, prsoecuted eventually) with doctors and UAW workers at GM claiming disability.
The public safety worker boondogle that doesn’t get much attetnion is sick time. Most public safety contracts have it written in that most sick days can be related to the job (I have to breath toxic fumes so this cough is not really a cold). This allows them to never use sick days and instead accumulate them and get a serious payout when they retire.
SomervilleTom says
Look guys, I ruffled feathers when I joined BMG years ago by saying the same thing that John says here (almost).
The pervasive corruption that still permeates public service entities in Boston and Massachusetts is disgusting, and sets the stage for complaints like this. In this case, much of what John is complaining about is true and ought to be changed.
The rate at which firefighters and police retire with disability (38% in Worcester is, sadly, not shocking any more) is a shameful embarrassment. It’s not as if the employees themselves are the only players — it takes “village” of unscrupulous lawyers, doctors, “lobbyists”, and “friends” to keep this machine going.
I’m very confident that if the GOP were the predominant party in the legislature, these abuses would continue unabated and we Democrats would complain about the “Corrupt GOP officials”. Certainly, during the long bleak period when the GOP held the corner office, a succession of GOP governors made no difference whatsoever. Nevertheless, we Democrats dominate Beacon Hill and City Hall and that means that this pervasive corruption is our problem.
Pretending it isn’t so doesn’t help solve it. Having said that, let me also say that unions aren’t the problem either.
Corruption is the problem. Corruption is neither Republican nor Democrat, nor is it limited to unions or board rooms. These abuses happen because the rest of us allow them to — and we need to stop.
sethjp says
I couldn’t agree more.
merrimackguy says
If the revenue of a particular city is finite, then it has to be spent as effectively (and non-fraudulently) as possible.
Another question would be one of priorities. Would you rather have one very expensive firefighter or 2.5 social workers? Which would contribute the the public safety more?
If we had statewide laws that made corruption and unreasonably expensive labor practices more difficult, that would be a start.
methuenprogressive says
According to johnd people who are legally getting pensions are criminals, and some guy who was found innocent of some charge is still guilty?
The Taliban-style vigilante justice johnd advocates is not just un-American, it is anti-American. The Taliban just beheaded dozens of people for listening to music – so what punishments would result from johnd’s jihad against disabled American firemen and police officers?
SomervilleTom says
I’m not sure why the prosecution failed convict Mr. Arroyo. I’m not sure what the specific laws were that led the jury to so quickly pronounce him not guilty.
I am sure that he, and all too many like him, abused the system of worker protections and benefits that so many people fought and died for. I am even more sure that his story exemplifies the anger that so many voters feel towards the current state of affairs.
In my view, this is very much like the claim that Mitt Romney obeyed the law in accumulating his enormous personal fortune while paying taxes at such an obscenely low rate. The fact that this behavior is legal is precisely the problem.
Your comparison to the Taliban is over the top.
merrimackguy says
I don’t know why they went that direction. Jurors interviewed thought he did a bad thing (collected when he should have been working), but based on the charge and their instructions they felt the prosecution didn’t prove their case.
methuenprogressive says
I thought the same thing about his characterization that all disabled firemen and police officers are “criminals.”
johnd says
But clearly and distinctly, I and others have gone out of their way to explicitly say not only are there legitimate claims for disabilities but that the system is a good thing for our police and firefighters who get hurt. It’s the abuses that are criminal and they should be ashamed as people, they should be outcast by their fellow workers and they should be prosecuted.
SomervilleTom says
Instead, I saw him objecting to the 38% disability rate for Worcester retirees or the Albert Arroyo case. Both are, in my view, legitimate criticisms that I share.
These are examples where public service employees are abusing the public trust. The hurt everyone, and they hurt other public service employees in particular.
We progressives greatly weaken our case when we defend such abuses. Our defense of these abuses — together with the network of corrupt attorneys, physicians, lobbyists, and politicians who enable them — plays an enormous role in our inability to pass the much-needed tax increases that are the only solution to our long-term economic problems.
We MUST raise taxes in Massachusetts, and abuses like these make that essentially impossible.
Christopher says
I had absolutely no expectation that you would nor would I have interpreted not posting as acquiesence.
johnd says
We can have our subjective ideological discussions, but we should unite when it is called for. I believe this union abuse falls under the same blanket. I will be glad to join you guys in supporting unions in general if we could remove the abusive practices and arm twisting union bosses.
I don’t want slavery, I don’t want dangerous working conditions and I do agree with creating a greg work environment… just to be clear.
petr says
Actuarial jujitsu in service to hack journalism, however, is not…
According to the Rand corporation public safety employees are roughly three times more likely to suffer a direct injury or health issues directly related to job stress than public employees not in a safety related job… so simple math puts that at around 24%. That should be about 24% each year… But the story doesn’t deal in per year it deals in total disability employees at the present time. If you note the graphics accompanying the story greater than a full quarter of disability retirees have outlived life expectancy (and, indeed, almost a full half are 70+ years of age…) which skews the numbers and gives a false impression of ravening hordes of idle, falsely, disabled persons: a few particularly long lived people, who retired in a year when 24% of their fellow public safety employees also retired at disability, could stretch the statistics out to 38% of present totals…. This is not surprising since public safety officers like police and firefighters have baseline health and fitness requirements making them, disabled or not, a baseline fitter population than non safety employees.
What would give a better view is a year on year breakdown of disability retirees: is there a bump on year? That is to say, a year in which a local tragedy, say a large fire or a gangland shootout suddenly put more than the usual number of public safety employees on disability? Or can the ‘high’ rate of present disability retirees be explained solely by the apparently long lived retirees??
So the question is begged: how much money are you willing to spend to ‘enforce’ the law and ‘catch’ the malefactors? Where is the ‘nut’? That is to say, how many retirees do you have to strip of benefits so as to make the expenditure a break even proposition? And are you really certain that there exist that number, or greater, of malefactors? What happens if the city expends ten million dollars to find and save maybe only two, or three, million?