My thoughts: Stop it. Just stop.
- promoted by charley-on-the-mta

I am very concerned….very, very concerned.   My perspective is that no amount of violence including the most extreme obliteration of Israel or Palestine will stop the conflicts.  Peace is the only solution and the only role for the US to pursue.

This post is an invitation to move off the navel-gazing of the elections into discussion of the current and present dangers.  Please share your perspectives.

Recommended by christopher, somervilletom.


6 Comments . Leave a comment below.
  1. I was tempted to start this thread myself.

    As with this week’s news I often find myself feeling like I jumped into the middle of something. It seems without warning the news is filled with stories of the two sides hitting each other again and I’m wondering what happened to provoke it this time.

    For what it’s worth my perspective is that Israel has a right to exist and defend itself, but I do not believe that Israel can do know wrong. I realize a two-state solution is a popular goal, but with the Palestinian territories physically divided I’m not convinced that is feasible. I think there should be a single state called Palestine with devolved powers to West Bank and Gaza similar to Scotland and Wales within the UK and the “Jewish State” aspect limited to Israel proper. Of course, there should be no second-class citizenship and Gaza/WB should have Knesset representation proportional to their population. Meanwhile Israel should immediately cease and desist the building of settlements in Gaza and WB. Within the context of a single state Jerusalem can be the “eternal and indivisible capital”, but there must be free access to holy sites for all Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

    • Good thread

      I consider myself a pro-peace realist who is appalled by the lack of leadership on both sides, both sides have drawn blood and have the blood of innocents in their hands. That said Hamas had six years to govern Gaza and has decided instead of providing services to its people and rebuilding the destroyed infrastructure to instead lob rockets aimed indiscriminately at killing as many Jews as possible. They intentionally use their own people as pawns and human shields whenever Israel inevitably retaliates. I am sick and tired of them and disturbed that we are letting Egypt support them.

      I am also sick a tired of Netenyahu and his failed leadership on all fronts. He has gone out of his way to make Israel a pariah state even isolating it from its most historic ally in America by going out of his way to insult this President and undermine his ability to lead from the middle and achieve peace. With his appointment of Barak at Defense and Lieberman at Foreign Affairs it is quite clear Netenyahu does not want peace.

      The only saint in this saga is Abbas, the sole reason the West Bank is pacified is due to his restraint and commitment to the peace process. I disagree with the timing of his UN bid but not its spirit. He has agrees to all the conditions Arafat stubbornly refused. He wants East Jerusalem, no right of return, and the Green Line as the borders of a future Palestinian state, dismantle new settlements and keep old ones with land swaps to make up for it. This is everything the US and even Netenyahu say that they want. Yet we have given him nothing as reward for keeping the faith in the process.

      Rice should back a compromise resolution where the UN endorses an eventual state along the lines that Abbas has outlined and give the PA the same “like a state” status the Vatican has. We should open negotiations with Abbas now and show the Palestinian people that rage and resistance are not the only way. Freeze West Bank and Jersualem construction. Israel should have a soft power and charm offensive for Abbas and the PA while it limits the Gaza campaign to targeted surgical strikes against rocket sites and militant leaders. It should not attack infrastructure or the civilian Hamas government as it is now, and it should NOT launch a ground offensive and Obama should make it clear that would not have American support.

  2. An invasion doesn't seem like an answer

    though I don’t know what the immediate answer is.

    Israel shouldn’t have to be worrying about rockets flying overhead on a weekly basis.

    Then again, 3 Israelis have died and over 40 Palestinians have died, in just this latest conflict, before an invasion of Gaza has even taken place.

    That doesn’t seem to be a long term solution to the problem on Israel’s part, either.

    Peace is the solution, but also the conundrum.

    RyansTake   @   Sun 18 Nov 6:12 PM
    • Agreed

      The world does not even feel like taking sides anymore, its pretty obvious to any outside observer that a two state solution is the only way forward and the best way for ensuring and preserving peace.

      That said its unlikely the principles see it this way. Netenyahu is not interested and it seems less likely now he will be replaced. Hamas is not interested. And its unlikely Obama wants to spend political capital when he has to tackle Iran and Syria in the region as well.

      The irony is the corrupt Olmert may be the best chance for peace. Before leaving office he basically agreed to the same things Abbas wants. If the Palestinians have to choose between Abbas and statehood or Hamas and continue the futile fight, they will choose Abbas. If they had to choose between Hamas and fighting, and no chance at statehood which is the choice they are making now, than we shouldn’t be surprised they are picking Hamas. I honestly hope Obama has room to tackle this now, and McCain was actually right today that Bill Clinton is the man to send over there to broker an agreement.

  3. Peace is the answer...

    …to a different question than what’s being asked.

    I think current leaders on both sides see the cost-benefit balance on violence so finely tuned that peace is not the immediate preference. The question being asked is not “how do we make it stop?” or even “how do I make my nation better off?” but more “how do I make my conception of the nation ascendant?” Remember that Netanyahu is the moderate in his coalition — he’s the voice of reason in that Cabinet.

    It is not too different from Syria…if neither side wants peace, peace is unlikely to happen.

    sabutai   @   Tue 20 Nov 6:57 PM
    • Sad but true

      The Lieberman faction is morally equivalent to Hamas, and were they to gain any more power or credibility within the Israeli government than any illusions of secular democracy go out the window and its just two theocratic nations decimating each other in an unending meat grinder. I pray that never happens.

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