I’d really like to know the answer to that question. Has it ever happened? Anywhere? Even once? Because that would seem relevant to the Springfield question, among others.
Perhaps not the most applicable case. Macau wasn’t desperate, and its circumstances aren’t too similar to Springfield, but that’s what drives the economy. I get the gambling built Vegas, not rescued it….
ryepower12says
Any citizen of Macau has to pay a hefty fee to go to the casino.
They want foreigners to spend at the casino, but not the severe social costs that come with an American style casino policy that preys on the local community.
sabutaisays
Monte Carlo, which may be a better example than Macau, also refuses anyone who tries to enter on a Monegasque passport.
Jasiusays
The same was true in the Bahamas, although there were some efforts to allow the locals to play in recent years. Not sure what came of that.
With the MA production tax incentives, I’ll be looking for the first gambling feature shot in Everett.
The Casinos may not revive the economy here, but will sure help revive some subjects in our movie industry.
nopoliticiansays
I recommend that people take a virtual tour of the city of Springfield. I think that what you see will shock you, and you will maybe understand why people are so desperate for anything here.
Let’s start with the casino location. Here is the former Zanetti school. hit by the tornado in 2011.
Here are some storefronts directly across from the Mass Mutual Center. Almost all are vacant. Several businesses which are open in the picture have since closed.
Now let’s get into some of the neighborhoods. Although Springfield has some very fine neighborhoods, some of these places should make people ashamed to be a resident of this state. How would you like to live across from this?
I can see four boarded-up houses by simply turning in a circle.
Here’s a nice little street. Nice, except for the burned-out houses across from each other. Oh, and don’t mind the bars on the windows that the homeowners feel are necessary.
Here’s a nice little house for sale. It started out for sale for $165k in 2010. It sold four years later for $127k. Why so long and so low despite its pristine condition? Maybe because the large house next to it is a group home for troubled teens, and the house on the right is a group home for battered women? And because there are about 3-4 other group homes within 2 blocks of it? Thanks, Dover Amendment!
Now maybe you’ll get a flavor of why Springfield is looking for something, anything.
johntmaysays
It’s like asking “Has a parasite ever improved the health of an animal?” A business model of just gambling (Slots) is nothing more than people entering a building and flipping a coin over and over until it is lost then they flip another coin until it is lost. They do this until they are out of coins. Nothing of value is created.
nopoliticiansays
Casinos have an estimated 10% profit margin, meaning that 90% of their revenues are either paid out as winnings or go to local operating expenses.
The Boston Red Sox have revenues of $357m, and pay $186m in salaries to a handful of wealthy players who do not spend very much of their money in the area (Curt Schilling notwithstanding…)
On pure economic terms, why are the Red Sox not considered parasitic with a 50% outflow, but casinos are with a 10% outflow? Neither “create anything of value”
SomervilleTomsays
In spite of their best efforts, the Globe$ox are not very good at robbing fans of their homes, pensions, and everything else they can lay their hands on. The last time I was at Fenway Park, I missed the convenient located office where I could sign away everything in exchange for a chance to watch the next few innings.
Is it so very hard to understand the difference between the Red Sox and a slots parlor? REALLY?
nopoliticiansays
No, the Red Sox don’t inspire too many problem gamblers (though they do inspire some) – I absolutely agree. But if we’re talking purely about economic systems, 25 or so players manage to take $186m in salaries out of the Massachusetts economy every year.
Of course, the Red Sox do amazing things for the city of Boston, since a big chunk of the remaining $171m is spent on very local services there. They are also beneficial in that part of their revenues comes from television, which means dollars are being imported from elsewhere in the country. People also cross state lines to see them. But I still think that if you draw a boundary line somewhere around New England, I think that overall, the Red Sox would take more out of that specific region than they bring in to the region because the players don’t spend all that money here, even if some do live here.
If you look at economics as trade between regions, I think you’d see a bit of a different picture. You’d see that a small home-based business that brings in $100k in sales from outside the region is more valuable than a pizza shop that does $400k in revenue – because the pizza shop is just reshuffling things.
That is why I don’t see MGM as such a bad deal. We already are spending money on gambling. Yes, the money spent will increase – but by how much? I don’t think it is going to double – so anything less than doubling is a net gain to the region because we will have stopped the money from leaking out. Any more money brought in will be more of a net gain.
I agree, the number of problem gamblers will increase. But by how much? And though it sounds somewhat callous, we aren’t trying to make alcohol illegal due to the presence of alcoholics; why not focus on treatment and make sure that MGM is properly keeping tabs on people?
sabutai says
Perhaps not the most applicable case. Macau wasn’t desperate, and its circumstances aren’t too similar to Springfield, but that’s what drives the economy. I get the gambling built Vegas, not rescued it….
ryepower12 says
Any citizen of Macau has to pay a hefty fee to go to the casino.
They want foreigners to spend at the casino, but not the severe social costs that come with an American style casino policy that preys on the local community.
sabutai says
Monte Carlo, which may be a better example than Macau, also refuses anyone who tries to enter on a Monegasque passport.
Jasiu says
The same was true in the Bahamas, although there were some efforts to allow the locals to play in recent years. Not sure what came of that.
Bob Neer says
Andrei Radulescu-Banu says
With the MA production tax incentives, I’ll be looking for the first gambling feature shot in Everett.
The Casinos may not revive the economy here, but will sure help revive some subjects in our movie industry.
nopolitician says
I recommend that people take a virtual tour of the city of Springfield. I think that what you see will shock you, and you will maybe understand why people are so desperate for anything here.
Let’s start with the casino location. Here is the former Zanetti school. hit by the tornado in 2011.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.098425,-72.587161,3a,75y,143.49h,87.71t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s_CpdkhA6eFgzf4zZI2KqxA!2e0
Here is the former South End Community Center, destroyed by the tornado, not yet replaced:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0990847,-72.586359,3a,75y,99.35h,100.52t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sVa3PgcKVDSapboapumAd-g!2e0
If you look behind it, you will find the Western Mass Alcohol Correctional Center. Yes, this is in downtown Springfield.
This is Main Street, a block up from the casino site. This entire block was destroyed by the tornado, and not rebuilt.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0990415,-72.5843202,3a,75y,70.4h,78.3t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1shBEmfCleXe1IuRf56NlOzQ!2e0
Here is what it used to look like:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0990356,-72.5843112,3a,75y,70.4h,78.3t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sZMhHyuMcSGzstr19GdecRA!2e0!5s2007-08
Here is a nice downtown attraction – a homeless shelter, the Springfield Rescue Mission. It is on the casino site.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0999413,-72.5869019,3a,75y,97.08h,89.85t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sX1zEIU4QOyUA1CzyHTU9_g!2e0
Here are some storefronts directly across from the Mass Mutual Center. Almost all are vacant. Several businesses which are open in the picture have since closed.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1010677,-72.5873322,3a,75y,204.33h,89.35t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sskOyqQIrz_4Dz1H-Mmx-uw!2e0
Now let’s get into some of the neighborhoods. Although Springfield has some very fine neighborhoods, some of these places should make people ashamed to be a resident of this state. How would you like to live across from this?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0995227,-72.5722986,3a,75y,354.17h,87.81t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s636G3R0gFEXEYICzaNd3aw!2e0
Turn around, you’ll see that no one actually does because those homes are boarded up too.
Now that may not have been too fair since that was a tornado-damaged area. How about this little street, not affected by the tornado:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1078736,-72.5660782,3a,75y,295.92h,80.58t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smcTkTKQVx7tkvAvQ_bdlZw!2e0
I can see four boarded-up houses by simply turning in a circle.
Here’s a nice little street. Nice, except for the burned-out houses across from each other. Oh, and don’t mind the bars on the windows that the homeowners feel are necessary.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0902179,-72.5740919,3a,76.7y,134.53h,90.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s2p9sRx_4RB1PFj0SaOSaxQ!2e0
Here’s a nice little house for sale. It started out for sale for $165k in 2010. It sold four years later for $127k. Why so long and so low despite its pristine condition? Maybe because the large house next to it is a group home for troubled teens, and the house on the right is a group home for battered women? And because there are about 3-4 other group homes within 2 blocks of it? Thanks, Dover Amendment!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0950429,-72.5737271,3a,75y,35.06h,81.75t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sBEiCIATBo3tD93byBMStvA!2e0
I’ll end with this little gem. It’s from 2007, the houses are no longer standing, but how would you like to live here?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.097005,-72.578269,3a,75y,52.88h,83.58t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s6WRLhBJnHrEAkKtzgggAsA!2e0!5s2011-09
Now maybe you’ll get a flavor of why Springfield is looking for something, anything.
johntmay says
It’s like asking “Has a parasite ever improved the health of an animal?” A business model of just gambling (Slots) is nothing more than people entering a building and flipping a coin over and over until it is lost then they flip another coin until it is lost. They do this until they are out of coins. Nothing of value is created.
nopolitician says
Casinos have an estimated 10% profit margin, meaning that 90% of their revenues are either paid out as winnings or go to local operating expenses.
The Boston Red Sox have revenues of $357m, and pay $186m in salaries to a handful of wealthy players who do not spend very much of their money in the area (Curt Schilling notwithstanding…)
On pure economic terms, why are the Red Sox not considered parasitic with a 50% outflow, but casinos are with a 10% outflow? Neither “create anything of value”
SomervilleTom says
In spite of their best efforts, the Globe$ox are not very good at robbing fans of their homes, pensions, and everything else they can lay their hands on. The last time I was at Fenway Park, I missed the convenient located office where I could sign away everything in exchange for a chance to watch the next few innings.
Is it so very hard to understand the difference between the Red Sox and a slots parlor? REALLY?
nopolitician says
No, the Red Sox don’t inspire too many problem gamblers (though they do inspire some) – I absolutely agree. But if we’re talking purely about economic systems, 25 or so players manage to take $186m in salaries out of the Massachusetts economy every year.
Of course, the Red Sox do amazing things for the city of Boston, since a big chunk of the remaining $171m is spent on very local services there. They are also beneficial in that part of their revenues comes from television, which means dollars are being imported from elsewhere in the country. People also cross state lines to see them. But I still think that if you draw a boundary line somewhere around New England, I think that overall, the Red Sox would take more out of that specific region than they bring in to the region because the players don’t spend all that money here, even if some do live here.
If you look at economics as trade between regions, I think you’d see a bit of a different picture. You’d see that a small home-based business that brings in $100k in sales from outside the region is more valuable than a pizza shop that does $400k in revenue – because the pizza shop is just reshuffling things.
That is why I don’t see MGM as such a bad deal. We already are spending money on gambling. Yes, the money spent will increase – but by how much? I don’t think it is going to double – so anything less than doubling is a net gain to the region because we will have stopped the money from leaking out. Any more money brought in will be more of a net gain.
I agree, the number of problem gamblers will increase. But by how much? And though it sounds somewhat callous, we aren’t trying to make alcohol illegal due to the presence of alcoholics; why not focus on treatment and make sure that MGM is properly keeping tabs on people?
thegreenmiles says
The New Bedford casino developers claim Bethlehem, PA as a success story, and this Standard-Times report claimed to back it up: http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20131103/NEWS/311030301
However, this article calls Bethlehem an outlier as casino revenues decline across the Northeast: http://www.mcall.com/news/local/bethlehem/mc-pa-tables-games-sands-20140916-story.html
centralmassdad says
Even if one were inclined to optimism on the casino, that doesn’t seem like a success that can be easily copied.
Springfield might do better, economically, by just going ahead and building its monorail.
jconway says
Great Simpsons reference! With a far more subtle touch than the ones I’ve been employing in this case.
David says
I’d love to know more about whether the factors specific to Bethlehem’s apparent success are also present in Springfield.