The message came from beyond the grave. The liberal cubs out there have their marching orders from the Lion himself Ted Kennedy. (through his medium Paul Kirk)
Do as little for Hillary as possible then go in the booth and vote for Bernie. Tell your friends to do the same.
I love the BMG comments poo poohing the Kirk endorsement. ‘Where’s his organization?’
The word is out. Hillary can be taken down. It’s time for Dorothy et al. to throw water and watch her melt. She’s asking too much of the party.
Paul Kirk’s endorsement loosens the Hillary reigns for a lot of people here. Opens up the conversation. Right now you better not say anything remotely anti-Hillary or pro-Bernie within ear shot of a professional woman over 40 no 50 no 60. Other than that demographic people are ready to vote for Bernie because he is not Hillary AND Joe Biden is still alive.
And of course the loser lemmings will say what they’re suppose to say so they can hang out at the cool kids table.
Guess what? Those kids at the table graduated years ago, They’re not cool anymore. They don’t get that they should have moved on. Now they’re just bullies who need to be outed.
Can’t blame elected pols for doing what’s right for their constiuents and endorsing her. . Go Bernie! Go Biden! Time to say goodbye to the Clintons and Bushes
I bet Liz Warren gives Bernie her vote. And she’s a gurl.
I’m voting for Bernie and you should too.
Mark L. Bail says
I know what they used to say about dead people voting for Democrats, but seriously, Ted Kennedy? That’s stretching it.
Newsflash: Hilary Clinton isn’t liked by a lot of folks. The same goes for the entire Republican slate of candidates.
More Newsflashes: Massachusetts doesn’t matter. Iowa is makes white look beige. New Hampshire is crazy. Nevada and South Carolina don’t care about Bernie Sanders. I like Bernie Sanders, but he’s yet to prove his campaign will have legs across the rest of the country.
No one cares what Paul Kirk thinks. No one knows who he is. I have to be reminded whenever his name comes up. Who is he again? President of Endorsements Anonymous?
Mark L. Bail says
The only Jame I’ve ever heard of is Jame Gumb, and he’s not a Democrat.
mike_cote says
But just in case. If this was meant as a nerd test, then I hope I passed the audition.
Mark L. Bail says
was also known as Buffalo Bill. He was the serial killer in Silence of the Lambs.
JimC says
Paul Kirk is a respected guy. The average voter may not know who he is, but activists know.
Mark L. Bail says
Does he have people knocking on doors for Sanders? My state senator has people knocking on doors for Clinton. My congressman was on the front page of the Springfield Republican canvassing for Clinton.
Is Kirk supposed to motivate activists to bring out people or just change their vote?
JimC says
If “Massachusetts doesn’t matter” (your assertion, upthread), why should we care what’s on the front page of the Springfield Republican?
But, you say, these two officials have people canvassing for Clinton. So these people are doing that because the officials you mentioned endorsed her, I presume.
Paul Kirk is in his late 70s, per Wikipedia. He is a former national party chair, and as I said, a respected guy. Whatever you think, whatever I think … his opinion gets noticed.
If you’re supporting Sanders, you should be happy about this. If you’re supporting Clinton, you should be unhappy about it.
If you really think endorsements don’t matter, tell your state rep you’re going to run against him or her, and Elizabeth Warren is planning to endorse you. Or let me put that another way … you decide to run for state rep. Liz Warren offers to endorse you, but says she’s too busy to organize people to canvass. Do you decline the endorsement?
Mark L. Bail says
is so what? How will the endorsement affect Clinton’s campaign? How will the word of party insiders effect her? Paul Kirk’s endorsement can do things: 1) provide media attention 2) represent some boots he can put on the ground to work for her. The media attention is fleeting, and I don’t know any voters that know who he is.
My experience with party insiders or Democratic activists (I’m one in my tiny neck of the woods; if a candidate in my district doesn’t know to call me, they are clueless) is that they already know who they support and have made the decision. They are already working for a candidate. Kirk’s endorsement isn’t going to affect them. People who have heard of him may respect his opinion, but so what? How can it effect anything? Especially at this late date. No votes, no boots, minimal media attention. No big deal.
Endorsements mean media attention or boots on the ground or, I suppose, some donations. Liz Warren is Bob Dylan; Paul Kirk is Dave Van Ronk, both important to the folk movement, but only Dylan is known. So Liz’s endorsement would get me noticed. Paul Kirk, great and respected as he may be, doesn’t get Sanders much attention with voters.
JimC says
Although I wouldn’t take it as far as Ernie did in this diary, to extend your analogy, when Dylan went electric, he got booed at the Newport Folk Festival. Pete Seeger — yes, gentle old Pete Seeger — tried to pull the plug and nearly punched someone.
Tried to pull the plug. Everything was already electric (the microphones, the PA, etc.). But the guitar switch was important symbolically, and Seeger knew it.
Kirk’s endorsement isn’t as dramatic as that, but hearing someone else play a solid body electric is what made Dylan go shopping for one.
centralmassdad says
that tried to pretend that M. Coakley was a champion of civil liberties. I still don’t see a reason to care about this.
judy-meredith says
Speculation about Paul Kirk’s so called channeling of Ted Kennedy ‘s instructions to his worshipers.
Bless you Ernie, be well and do good things.
howlandlewnatick says
Much as I like Bernie Sanders, I can’t see the DNC allowing him and his delegates into the convention. We’ve seen what sabotage DNC does with Bernie’s campaign by co-hosting HRC’s campaign in DNC offices, scheduling debates at inconvenient times, posturing superdelegates before the debates started, attempting to sink Bernie’s prospects due to a single staffers error. It will only get more blatant.
The Party makes the rules. History shows us that Parties are neither democratic or republican in temperament. Think more fascist. Only a few years ago the Republicans sank the efforts of libertarian Ron Paul with the rule changes to support their Mitt Romney. Do you expect more from the DNC?
“If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.” –Dwight D. Eisenhower
JimC says
I do expect more from the DNC.
That said, I’m a bit surprised we haven’t heard “Socialist” that much. But it might get louder.
ryepower12 says
it isn’t going to end well, whether they win or lose.
The damage a brokered convention will do to the Democratic Party would take generations to heal, and almost certainly hand the Republican the White House (including Trump).
Cooler heads in the party establishment need to prevail; whoever wins the plurality of state delegates has to be the nominee, or the damage will be incalculable.
Christopher says
Only Clinton and Sanders are likely to get delegates so with two candidates one of them has to get majority on the first ballot.
ryepower12 says
15% of delegates are super delegates. That’s a lot. Additionally, the delegate share in states make it so that 2nd place finishers can still get a lot of delegates.
Both factors make a competitive primary leading to a brokered convention fairly likely. We just haven’t had many primaries that competitive, so haven’t seen it yet. 08 was that competitive, but Obama was able to avoid a brokered convention because he knew the caucus rules/was better prepared for caucus states than Hillary, and because the superdelegates overwhelmingly sided with Obama after his early victories (and after it became clear that supers could have been in the position where a brokered convention was at risk- — I have no doubt avoiding a brokered convention helped push at least a few delegates toward Obama in 08).
In this election, we have 2 candidates who will have the funds to take it to the convention. And if Bernie can turn shocking Iowa and NH wins into wins in most states, so long as Hillary is winning a few of her own and coming in close-enough seconds — that 15% super delegate count could just be enough to spin the election…. if the supers allow it to happen.
Is it the most likely outcome? Certainly not. But there’s certainly a higher-than-zero percent chance there will be the opportunity for a brokered convention that overturns the will of the voters.
Christopher says
I’m pretty sure it means when deals are made to push someone over the top. Basic math says that with only two candidates no brokering is necessary. Superdelegates making their own decisions may not be what people like, but it is their prerogative and they will only vote for one of the two at most candidates placed in nomination. I really don’t want to start this argument so early in the cycle, but I do stand by my 2008 comments regarding superdelegates if anyone cares to look back.
ryepower12 says
Bernie could win 53% of the delegates from caucuses and primaries, and lose because Hillary got 99% of the super delegates.
In that case, a bunch of unelected elites would have overturned the will of the voters — all millions and millions of them.
That shouldn’t be too hard to understand… and is completely unacceptable in any kind of democracy.
Christopher says
…but I still don’t call that “brokered” and disagree that it is unacceptable. No different from those of us on the DSC being automatically delegates to the state nominating conventions, though I suppose that’s a possible area of disagreement as well. This is designed to be a party process, including PLEOS, not a strictly one-person, one-vote election. They ARE elected by the way, to hold the offices that give them that privilege. If 2008 is any indication many superdelegates take into account the will of their constituents anyway.
johnk says
so we kinda knew that a long time ago. Thanks for catching up.
mike_cote says
Just Saying…
johnk says
came out for Obama, it has nothing to do with Patrick. He wasn’t running for President and he in no way shape or form was a kingmaker.
Ted Kennedy was bowing to Deval Patrick?
mike_cote says
and the overlap between Camp Patrick and Camp Obama is well known, I don’t think it is too much of a leap to think that Paul Kirk would have actual gratitude towards the entire Patrick/Obama camps.
I am not suggesting quid pro quo, just actual gratitude. Just saying.
johnk says
what you are saying is not rational. Deval Patrick was not in the same stratosphere as Patrick, and Paul Kirk? Ceremonial. A person whio would vote the party line until the election. I’m not commenting on this any more,. Sorry, it’s bizarre.
johnk says
..
mike_cote says
which is why after years of abuse, I still continue to participate at this site.
jconway says
I knew Ted Kennedy, Ted Kennedy was a Senator of mine. Paul Kirk is no Ted Kennedy.