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So how should the MA Super Delegates Vote?

by: freshayer

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 19:56:08 PM EST


(The super suspects ... - promoted by Bob)

I heard former Ma Dem State Chair Phil Johnson comment  on the news tonight that in his opinion the Super Delegates should vote for who won the popular votes. So my question for discussion is....

Since in the Commonwealth a sizable majority of the people voted for Hillary does this mean the MA Super Delegates (like say Deval Patrick, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Phil Johnson, and the other Obama supporting Congressmen) abide by the will of the Citizens of the state they are elected to represent and vote for the winner?
freshayer :: So how should the MA Super Delegates Vote?
Poll
Or should the MA Super Delegates Vote for:
The winner in MA
Who they supported in MA
Proportionally per how the vote was in MA
Per the national winner in votes
Per the national winner in delegates

Results

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So how should the MA Super Delegates Vote? | 22 comments
my understanding is that (5.00 / 1)
they vote based on their knowledge of the bigger picture that the rest of us might not see.  i guess this would be analogous to a state rep taking votes for her district; she is influenced/pressured by the will of the district's majority, but should never be bound by it.  she must consider the minority as well as how the bill fits into the state's big picture.

so, i think super delegates should vote their conscience.  this may or may not be the same person the personally endorse.  i sincerely hope none of them are auctioning off their vote for personal gain.

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You mean just selling them for hard cash? (0.00 / 0)
I wonder how much they could get? I bet $100,000 if the Convention is hung. Maybe more. (Not as a direct payment though, of course, oh no, never directly).

BMG: Reality-based commentary.
[ Parent ]
by "personal gain" (0.00 / 0)
i had political appointments/favors in mind.  but of course, any super delegate found cashing out should, imo, be relegated to a lifetime of licking the bottom of karl rove's feet.

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[ Parent ]
As much as I'd love that... (0.00 / 0)
It's unfair to Obama, unless that is the m.o. among superdelegates across the country.  

~~~~
Believe it or not, I have even more to say...
Heres what Obama had to say from the Globe (0.00 / 0)
Pressure on MA super Delegates Mounts

Obama himself has added to the pressure on Massachusetts super delegates, because he has said that, generally, super delegates ought not to contradict the will of the voters.

So the Question remains what does he mean.  My opinion is if the MA delegation supports Obama over Hillary then they just said my vote  (as well as a large majority of Voters in the Commonwealth)was meaningless.

"There is something not well in the soul of man when he is too far removed from nature" Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings  

[ Parent ]
The Supers (6.00 / 2)
Superdelegates should vote their conscience, period. Otherwise, what is the point of superdelegates? They are merely redundant if they simply vote with the majority (or plurality...what about MO/NM?). Mandatory voting with the popular majority also makes it basically impossible for elected officials to endorse who they think is the best candidate, which would be a strange result.

Both candidates knew the rules going into into the game -- that superdelegates can vote any way they would like. It's up to them to woo the supers regardless of how bad the system seems now.

they are redundant (5.00 / 1)
or should be. If the super delegates reverse the outcome of the election of the pledged delegates, there will be a lot of protesting. Sure this would be according to the rules; however, this would be an ill-advised move and would alienate half of those who participated in the primaries.
They should get rid of this undemocratic system once and for all. The people can make a responsible choice without the adults coming to our rescue.

[ Parent ]
Put it on the list for 2012 (6.00 / 2)
Next to a special fund to pay for primaries with some integrity for red-state Democratic state parties.

But just like MI & FL, the at-large Nevada caucuses,, these were the rules going in.

~~~~
Believe it or not, I have even more to say...

[ Parent ]
Let me rephrase this (0.00 / 0)
The super delegates, as a whole, should refrain from overturning the will of the pledged delegates, as a whole.
They should try to make themselves as irrelevant as possible. If they vote with their own state delegation they will have an impact on the total delegate count, causing serious rancor in the party. In my opinion, it's better to have some rancor on the state level than a national civil war.
[ Parent ]
The battle for superdels will not be (0.00 / 0)
in states in which Clinton won--like Massachusetts.

The battle will be in states in which Obama won the pledged dels.  And therein lies the problem with superdelegates.  Frankly, they suck and should be hoovered out of existence.  

As a result of this smoke-filled-room maneuvering, though, Massachusetts is irrelevant.  If the Congressional delegation that sided with Clinton continues to do so, they have every right.  No one is looking for them.  It's the states in which Obama won that matter.  
 

 

i don't understand. (0.00 / 0)
why do the supers matter more in states that obama won?

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[ Parent ]
Okay, (0.00 / 0)
if you subscribe to the notion that the superdelegates have the best interests of the party in mind as well as the will of the voting electorate, the will of the voting electorate is really hard to overlook. No one is going to take a paternalistic "we know what's best for you" line of rhetoric very seriously.    For example, in MA, the voters went with Clinton.  For the superdels to abandon her is a kick in the teeth to the voters.  However, if the voters had gone for Obama and superdels had been promised to Clinton, then we have a problem.  How do you ignore the will of the voters?  That's a hard thing to justify, especially as an elected official.  

So, the order of superdel priority goes to states in which the pledged delegate winner is at odds with the superdelegates.  States like Massachusetts where the pledged and superdels align are not as much a priority.  

Does that make sense?    

 

[ Parent ]
How do you neglect/defy the will of the voters? Take a look at the MA Legislature. They do it on a regular basis. (0.00 / 0)
Can you imagine Barack getting the plurality of votes and the majority of the delegates and then Hillary steals the nomination. I can. It would be the quintissential Clintonian torpedo.Pelosi, Reid, et al need to go to her and say, enough is a enough. You are about to blow the whole deal for all of us and the presidency..

Take a look at Joe Lieberman. He was treated so shabbily by the democratic party that Republicans rescued him.

[ Parent ]
Still a bit confused ... (0.00 / 0)
because in MA, lots of superdelegates are Obama types (Gov, both Senators, a couple congressmen, John Walsh, etc.), yet the state went heavily for Clinton.  So don't we have a problem here, of exactly the kind that's being discussed?
[ Parent ]
Context. (0.00 / 0)
I wasn't very clear in establishing context.  Yes, many are Obama dels even though the state went Clinton.  I'm fast forwarding, though, to a convention situation in which Obama is the clear choice of the pledged delegates.  The Obama superdels in MA are in good shape in that scenario; it's the Clinton superdels who are in a bind when faced with the larger context of the national pick being Obama.  

So in a convention context, the super dels who back Clinton in states where Obama won (consistent with the nation's preference) are under more pressure to bend to the will of the voters because they are faced with both state and national pressure.  Those Clinton superdels in Clinton states claim cover from their local constituencies.

 

[ Parent ]
Vote their conscience (0.00 / 0)
As long as they exist and have the option, they should do what they think is best and just vote their conscience.

RHM
impossible (6.00 / 1)
First off, it's impossible to vote for the winner of the popular vote, because we have no idea what the popular vote was in Iowa. The popular vote in Iowa was never reported, only the re-weighted delegate totals.

The candidates both entered the race believing it was the delegates that mattered, not the total votes. MA super-delegates should vote for whomever wins the most pledged  delegates nationally.

Somerville for Instant Runoff Voting

National Delegate Count (0.00 / 0)
I say this partly since Obama is currently leading that but also because it would unite behind the front runner whoever that turns out to be and avoid a deadlocked convention which should be avoided at all costs especially considering how divided the GOP is.

I say let the Super-delegates vote for whomever is leading in national delegate count, and this is for all super delegates across the country. Whomever has that lead at the end of the primaries also wins the superdelegates.  

[ Parent ]
Then what you are saying is... (0.00 / 0)
...all we did in the primaries was vote for who the super delegates should vote for nationally and not for the candidate we chose in MA.  In my view the MA delegation should support who the majority of MA voters supported other wise the MA Primary (as well as all Primaries whose delegate's job it is to represent the will of the state they are from) were rendered meaningless. Other wise this means the voters only counted for 80% of the votes of the 4050 Delegates and an elite few count for the other 20% un beholden to the electorate.

PS I can hear John Adams rolling over in his Marble coffin in Quincy at the thought!

PSS Actually I would bet most of the founding fathers would be more than a bit Peeved at the way their experiment in democracy is being practiced these days.

"There is something not well in the soul of man when he is too far removed from nature" Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings  

[ Parent ]
So your basic decision criteria for superdelegates (0.00 / 0)
is whatever would get them to vote for Obama?

[ Parent ]
Uh-huh.. (0.00 / 0)
So the fact that pledged delegates represent 10 times as many Democratic voters in some states than in others doesn't trouble you?

~~~~
Believe it or not, I have even more to say...
[ Parent ]
I hate to say this, but (0.00 / 0)
given the goofy rules we're operating under, I see no reason why the supes shouldn't vote for whoever they want to - rank and file be damned.  After all, we've given them that privilege.

If you don't like it, change the party by-laws.

Nobody but NOBODY pays any attention to who gets onto the state committee (many of them slide in with single or double digit vote counts).  The same goes for many local ward and town committees.  In fact, nobody pays any attention to the state party structure and by-laws at all until they're pissed off.  And by then it's too late.  So nothing happens.

Get over it or get onto it.

So how should the MA Super Delegates Vote? | 22 comments



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