Comments

  1. Either you are a legitimate voter or you aren’t. I suppose anyone has the right to challenge the voter(s) legitimacy.
    If you are a convicted felon in a state that has deprived you of the right to vote, if you are not a registered voter, or you are a non citizen then you cannot vote and if you do you should be prosecuted and the voter tally rectified. This is a non partisan issue and applicable to everyone. I don’t want to hear any excuses about change of address/domecile/residence, I didn’t know, I forgot to register etc. I get the third degree from some old bitty every time I vote—-so what. As far as I’m concerned, everyone should have to show a US passport!

      • Peter, you might find the original text of interest.

        <

        p>
        The Republican Party has been making a concerted effort to suppress minority voters because they vote for Democrats. These “poll watchers” aren’t really interested in verifying voter eligibility; in fact, the few challenges they have managed at the polls haven’t turned up any voter fraud. The poll watchers are not trying to verify voter eligibility, they’re using the verification process to gum up the works and prevent people from voting.

        <

        p>
        The Republican National Committee has a consent degree prohibiting from voter caging. Monica Goodling’s words suggest it was in contempt of the decree. That’s news.

    • but that’s a separate issue.

      <

      p>
      This issue is about targeting minority voters, and attempting to prevent them from voting. These tactics are used to prevent  law abiding citizens from exercising their constitutional right to vote, and IMHO is one of the most despicable legacies of the Lee Atwater/ Karl Rove era.

      <

      p>
      Thanks for the excellent diary BTW.

      • How can people be prevented from voting? They walk up to the table—give the old bitty their name and address and get a ballot. If they aren’t on the voter registration list—-then they don’t vote. Again—–what is the issue?

        <

        p>
        Now are you telling me that any nitwit should be able to walk up and get a ballot on face value that they are a human being? Speaking of which. The City of Chicago has almost as many dead people voting as people that are breathing. That is a bit tongue in cheek but Chicago is famous for it. Chicago, by the way is ——yes. Democratic. The Daley Machine.

        • Again—going back to being a cement head. Aren’t the old bitty’s supposed to be doing that? Name and address in and name and address out. Of course the decedents are not expunged. I think because of the historically rigged election in Illinois and Texas that some political parties may take issue with the validity of an election.

        • And in key states, like Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio, you can challenge your eligibility. Depending on the state, challenged voters may have to wait while the “issue” is ejudicated. Voters may have to fill out a provisional ballot, which takes more time.

          <

          p>
          It doesn’t matter if you’re on the list if challengers allege you don’t live there any more.

          <

          p>
          As much as Republicans like to argue the contrary, two wrongs don’t make a right. If voter fraud is a problem in Chicago, it should be addressed. That won’t happen by suppressing legitimate voters.

          <

          p>
          Mark

    • There are specific processes for challenging voter eligibility. Some states, Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, have made such challenges easy. In Florida, all you need for a challenge is “good faith” that a voter is wrong. No evidence. No personal knowledge.

      <

      p>
      So what’s the problem? Here’s what Project Vote writes,

      <

      p>
      the Florida challenge statute in effect during the 2004 election required a poll watcher to write out the reasons he or she challenged a voteron a form. The challenged voter could then present evidence supporting her eligibility. Election workers had to resolve the issue at the polls before the challenged person could vote. (Former Fla. Stat. § 101.111 (d) and (3)).13 Although this procedure had a high potential to cause delays, at least a challenged voter had an opportunity to overcome the challenge.

      <

      p>
      The voting process gets bogged down. People can’t wait or get sick of waiting because their eligibility is being challenged, not on real grounds, but through a dirty political trick.

      <

      p>
      Mark

      • People can’t wait or get sick of waiting

        If you’re not willing to fight for that right, you don’t deserve it.

        <

        p>
        If things are getting slowed down, open more polls.

        <

        p>
        I’m more interested in valid, legal votes.

        <

        p>
        If someone wants to challenge a vote.. be it sponsored by a party, the press or an individual.. if they have a case they should be heard.

        • Waiting in line hours and hours because a group is intentionally abusing the process in an area that they know will swing the other way has nothing to do with fighting for a right.

          <

          p>
          Furthermore, basic rights aren’t about “deserving”, at least not as a function of fighting.  Everybody deserves free speech, freedom of religion, etc.  Even if that person isn’t willing to fight for it.

          <

          p>
          This game where you make it seem as if those people who leave the voting line early because they can’t wait all those hours given work and kids and appointments is a classic blame the victim game.

          <

          p>

          If there’s an abuse of process, fix the process.  Naturally, this will be tougher to do in FL, a state where the GOP controls the state lege.  In the mean time, the Dems ought to be doing what they can to reduce caging [without impacting legitimate challenges] in all states where they can.  Might as well mitigate the damage…

        • when she goes to the polls?

          <

          p>

          <

          p>
          This is one of more idiotic talking points of the Republican party came up with in 2000. If you can’t use a butterfly ballot, you don’t deserve to vote. Implementing that idea would unconstitutional.Like tests given at the polls or a poll tax.

          <

          p>
          Mark

        • If you’re not willing to fight for that right, you don’t deserve it.

          <

          p>
          I’m sorry, did we repeal the Declaration of Independence, too… The very premise of which is that ‘deserve’ comes from the creator, and not, ahem, you…

          <

          p>

          If things are getting slowed down, open more polls.

          <

          p>
          You’ve accidently slipped into speaking gibberish.  Let me translate that for you: “open more polls” means  make the Secretary  of State  position non-partisan

          <

          p>

          I’m more interested in valid, legal votes.

          <

          p>
          Good for you.  Looks like you got your work cut out for you then, huh??

          <

          p>

          If someone wants to challenge a vote.. be it sponsored by a party, the press or an individual.. if they have a case they should be heard.

          <

          p>
          By all means, let us let our zeal for the perfect ensnare the innocent and the simple alike. I guess that’s the price we pay… As long as we get the bad guy who cares about collateral damage???

    • Never have.  I vote diligently and I, and my wife, are always certain to check our registration every few years.

      <

      p>
      However, I’ve never travelled outside of the USA and, at this point in my life, don’t intend to. Why do I need a passport?

      • I’ve never travelled outside of the USA and, at this point in my life, don’t intend to.

        <

        p>
        I’m being tongue in cheek, but you might consider traveling at least to Montreal.  Or Toronto, which has one of the largest Italian communities outside of Italy. 

        <

        p>
        For either, you would now need a passport.  A few years ago, a drivers license would suffice.

        <

        p>
        NB: I’m amazed at the number of Americans who have never travelled outside of the US.  I did it first in 1967 for the Montreal World’s Fair.  Maybe Americans should get out more; they might be less insular.

        • I’m being tongue in cheek, but you might consider traveling at least to Montreal.  Or Toronto, which has one of the largest Italian communities outside of Italy.

          <

          p>
          I went to the United Nations once, on a field trip in the 7th grade… 

          <

          p>
          But it’s not xeonophobia, as may well be the case with GWBush, but rather that I’m a settled soul who travels at a far different pace than others and who doesn’t like to be unsettled or hurried.  There are precious few things, in my estimation, that are worth the hassle of long car rides, or even longer plane rides. I should, I think, absolutely love travelling by boat… a mode of travel both too expensive and becoming more rare as the years go by.  My wife and I took a few weeks to travel by rail to Chicago and back just before our first child. That was great.

          <

          p>
          Family on my wifes side comes from Prince Edward Island and she’s expressed a desire to  see the ancestral manse someday.  I suppose I could be roused to go, if we make it hassle free (i.e., no driving like maniacs for 14 hours to spend a day and then turn around. I can’t imagine anything I’d like to do less…)

          <

          p>
          So too, my present employer has a branch in London that might someday require my presence for a short period. I guess I should have a passport for that possibility. 

          <

          p>
          As to insular, I guess that’s a fair point for some, but not for me.  The cube farm I’m presently occupying is peopled by the world: a fellow from Shanghai, two from Hong Kong, a gentlemen from Africa. Just down the hall from our cubes is the VP of devel, who’s from China proper. I work closely with an Indian guy.  A previous position involved close daily interaction with a Vietnamese women (who was married to an Iranian),a Cambodian, a women from Singapore, a professor from Hong Kong, a Brazilian women, two Frenchman, a Lebanese lecturer, several Taiwanese and a nice lady from Minnesota in addition to grad students from many other places in the world.  It was my favorite job ever, for exactly that reason, and one I parted with reluctantly.  I turned down some other jobs in the interim because I enjoyed that experience so deeply and I couldn’t find a place that wasn’t distinctly white.  So, you see, I can’t accept ‘insular’…

    • it’s called “attempted voter intimidation.”

      <

      p>
      Now, you tell me.  Are these missives sent out to every registered voter in a district or state?  I tend to doubt it, but I can be persuaded otherwise.  If they are not, but instead are sent to addresses in predominantly minority (and primarily hispanic) neighborhoods, the “attempted voter indimidation” should be apparent.

      <

      p>
      Your citation of the felons lists is laughable, particularly given the experience with FL in 2000.  Even the contractor that FL contracted to provide a felons list said that the list was unreliable.  I don’t recall the details exactly, but at least one of the persons identified on the list was an election official in a county in FL.  And, no, she wasn’t a felon.

      <

      p>
      I suppose that some of these problems (voter intimidation, unreliable felons lists) might be ameliorated with the use of the recently introduced “provisional ballots.”  But, there are (at least) two problems with that.  One, who, after casting a ballot, would want to go to the effort of proving his or her capacity to cast a ballot after he or she has been duly registered?  Two, provisional ballots are, of necessity, not anonymous, so anyone examining a provisional ballot would know how the provisional balloteer voted.  That information could very easily be made public by election officials.  That should be obvious, even to a cement head.

      <

      p>
      As a third point, unless and until election officials in the various states mandate uniform balloting procedures–including uniform numbers of ballot booths–at all of the various polling stations in their respective states (as a percentage of the registered voters), there will never be equality of the franchise.