To sabutai, to David, and to many others that were Hillary supporters or otherwise highly critical of my 2008 criticism let me make a mea culpa.
I still contend that the pro-Iraq War, DLC led, mandate supporting, lukewarm progressive Hillary Clinton would have been another centrist moderate like her husband and the real progressive choice would not have been her. It also would not have been Obama. So far, as President, I am convinced there is nothing President Obama has done differently than she would have as President. More importantly, she would have been far more effective and successful on a political and tactical level even if the policies would have been the same. The 2008 facts as I saw them that turned out to be Myths:
- -Obama was a dove on Iraq and a hawk on Afghanistan, Hillary was not->perhaps the biggest contrast in the primary was on Iraq
Yet the DLC led, CFR ‘consensus’ foreign policy team was the same team Obama choose. Anthony Lake and Brent Scowcroft were nowhere to be found. Instead we had Hillary at State (evidence enough her foreign policy views won), a pro-Petreaus, pro-Gates administration from day one (both are great leaders, but arguably Obama should have picked his own people not continued with Bush’s), and a continuation of Bush tested and DLC approved war on terror policies including: Guantanamo, escalation in Afghanistan, a much slower drawdown in Iraq, warrant less wiretapping, overseas assassinations, etc. I am convinced President Clinton would have done nothing differently, though arguably had she been weighed down by domestic concerns with a less capable State Secretary this area might have actually been weaker under her.
- -Healthcare->Obama was more vocally supportive of single payer and opposed mandates and Romney/Hillarycare
Under Obama we had a gutless mandate plan, similar to Romneycare and Hillarycare 2008 Edition. While better than nothing, it was certainly not what progressives wanted. Here though the difference would have been clear. Hillary would have realized that the biggest foe was not unsatisfied liberals wanting universal care but the vast right wing/corporate conspiracy to kill any kind of public health care system and any kind of reform. She would have been tough as nails, would have had her own plan day one, but would have shoved it through a compliant Congress. No doubt Pelosi and Reid would have been her bitch, along with Baucus and Lieberman who were old Senate friends, not the other way around. I am even confident the Maine twins and even McCain (had he not been elevated to her cabinet) might have gone along with it since they respected her so much and would have wanted to get the feeling in their arms back (after her twisting was over).
-Economy and job-> While not a big issue in the primary, we did know he was lukewarm for the bailouts and stimulus
One big similarity for the worse is that it would have been the same loser Clinton econ advisers (Rubin, Summers, etc.) coming back to haunt us. The difference would have been the political team. Unlike Axelrod, who as a Daley adviser never dealt with real opposition before, Carville and Begala back in action, with Bill of course, would’ve been so much smarter and would’ve made jobs the priority day one and gotten a lot more stimulus passed early. The girl raised in the Heartland would’ve made emotional appeals to actually sell the auto bailout, and Bill would’ve rallied his old blue collar white base around the plan. I think unemployment would be a little lower (the overall picture would’ve been roughly the same), and the indicators would be moving in her direction. I also think this traditionally Democratic strength would have been maintained.
-Spending and debt crisis->Not even a big 08′ issue showing you how strong the Tea Party is at shaping White House priorities for the worse
Hillary would’ve have cared little about deficit spending. Her political idol is LBJ and she would’ve done everything she could to build great stimulus programs and would’ve fought to fund them. A fighter, compromised by some hawkish foreign policy views, but a fighter for working people all the same. This just never would have happened with Obama who actually is sincerely committed to a bipartisan budget solution and entitlement reform ideologically and not just as a matter of compromise. Not hampered by that admirable but politically flawed view, Hillary would’ve seen the debt debate for what it was: a power grab by evil Republicans putting their party over country and taking the economy hostage to politically destroy a presidency. And Hillary doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Other mea culpas:
-My Personal dislike
I didnt like the Clintons and didn’t want their entitled butts back in the White House. I think I never got over the fact that Bill Clinton cheated and lied about it, and for me at eight years old it was one of my earliest political memories knowing that my President lied to me. A lot of that made me dislike the man,and later as I learned more about politics his third way politics during the build up to the Iraq War, dislike his policies as well. That said, Bill’s presidency was incredibly successful and his philanthropy is admirable and far more enduring than the philandering. He also he ran as the right kind of Democrat, not a right wing Democrat, but a progressive that de-emphasized cultural issues and emphasized the economy front and center. Hillary would have kept that specific theme through a general election in 2008 and delivered on it in 2008.
-90s are so over
I feared a return to the Ken Starr like obsession by the media and national press over the Clintons, their sex life, and their drama. One key thing I forgot is that they never brought this drama on themselves, rather it was a sustained and planned assault on the legitimacy of the Democratic presidency by his Republican opposition. It was naive to hope this would not happen to Obama, but I felt perhaps that he had more Republican friends and did not have the character deficiencies to make him vulnerable. I was wrong. From birtherism to communism, all sorts of ridiculous charges have been flung his way, and unlike the battle tested Hillary who would never have been out flanked by two bit Gingrich impersonators like McConnell, Cantor, and Boehner; Obama tried to meet these morons half way which is the equivalent of FDR meeting Stalin halfway, I’d use the Chamberlain analogy but these guys aren’t half as sophisticated and certainly not as evil as the devil he did business with. My point is appeasement is always a path to failure and never satisfies power hunger vultures out for blood. Hillary would have known this and fought fire with fire, and drew pools of blood for every pint they pricked from her.
-Sheer Sexism
When I thought of Hillary adjectives like ‘craven’, ‘unprincipled’, and ‘overambitious’ came to mind frequently. Well, those are traits I actually admired in Obama though under different names like ‘post-partisan’, ‘non-ideological’, and ‘nuanced leadership’. In the end, I am afraid it was simple sexism that drove me to this point then, and concede a variation of it might be driving me into Hillary’s arms now. Her far more direct and effective pragmatism stands in stark contrast to the wimpy, effete, professorial style of the President.To put it bluntly, Carville was right, there are three balls between the two of them, and Hillary has two. I am no longer threatened by this and frankly think she had far more experience, ability, and political skills than he ever did because of what she went through in the 90s and because she lived a much longer life in the arena. Her tenacity is reminiscent of a Harry Truman or T. Roosevelt, our most masculine President. Now, whether preferring her masculine qualities over the effete ones Obama has is also a form of sexism, is another debate entirely. I do know that consciously or not a power hungry female rubbed me the wrong way the way it didn’t with a power hungry male, and that will not happen again.
In Closing: I am Sorry
I now know I would have preferred a President Hillary right now and hope the actual President adopts some of her best qualities as he campaigns again, and hope she seriously reconsiders a 2016 race if its open, and especially if she is running against an incumbent President Romney (a 50/50 shot at this point). The era of fresh inexperienced faces is over. I voted Capuano for Senate, attended a fundraiser for Emmanuel for Mayor, and will vote for Warren for Senate. Speeches are nice, but at the end of the day people want their potholes fixed and their jobs created. America needed a plumber not a poet, and Hillary was the right man for the job.
Is this some sort of meta-intra-cognito jujitsu upon memory, in which we all turn our eyes to the hallowed past if only to avert, divert, revert away from a baleful present? Or, is that just what you want us to think?
Or, to put another way, why are you bring this up now?
I agree that the nation would be better off under a President Hillary than it is under President Barack (use of last names to distinguish the lady from the hypothetical First Husband).
And it is worth remembering that Obama did not win the Mass. primary.
I am not sure exactly just venting I guess. Seeing how heated Romney v. Perry is becoming reminded me of our primary four years ago and how I really loved Barack and hated Hillary and why in reality there has not been a dimes worth of difference between them on policy and significant differences regarding how they might have effectively governed. Many at the same accuse me of sexism and I am saying now that I think they were right but I look forward to working with them on her campaign in 2016 and were we to rerun that primary again I’d be standing with them.
erstwhile Hillary supporters, and recall, not you Conway, but others, who were obnoxious about Obama. I gladly supported Obama when he was nominated, but there were a bunch of people on BMG that were almost angry that we didn’t see him as the obvious choice. I can’t remember who they were or if you were one of them. Even when I disagree with you, it’s not because of your attitude or persona.
Regardless of people’s thoughts on Obama, I think most will agree he is not the Second Coming many thought him to be. And as we deal with our disappointment, there’s nothing wrong with thinking about what might have been.
the public option, immediately bringing our troops home, and regulation on banks and tying bailouts to demands on fixing mortgage problem and restrictions on salaries and bonuses.
Never understood Obama being painted as the progressive or progressives being surprised when he enacted the mentioned programs as pretty much promised in his campaign.
How does Bernie Sanders for President sound?
I never thought Obama was particularly progressive, but I thought (or at least hoped) that he might be more persuadable, more open to progressive political pressure, than the Clintons. I was wrong. He’s probably actually more rigidly a DLC clone (if that’s possible) than they are. Appointing Larry Summers was a real red flag, and it’s only gotten worse since then.
Obama talked about the public option during the campaign, then dropped it from the rhetoric and web site after the election. Talk was cheap. I voted for Kuchinich as there seemed to be little difference between the frontrunners.
…is that whereas Barack Obama might profess more liberal positions than Hillary Clinton he caves at the drop of the hat and she might fight harder. So in theory Obama is more progressive, but in practice we would get more progressive results under Clinton.
The crux of my m argument in far fewer words bravo sir!
… that ‘fighting harder’ would translate directly, or even indirectly, into ‘more progressive results’. There is no evidence to support such a claim.
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Sorry, this wasn’t for petr, to whom I would award an “I agree ‘5’” but to sue-kennedy, above, asking how Bernie Sanders for President sounds.
you’re right. How about more gridlock and acrimony? Plausible?
would solve this… how, exactly?
I’m not sure you can have direct evidence on a counterfactual, but HRC is tough. My thought is that if BHO said he’s for single payer (which he HAS said is his ideal), yet he didn’t fight even for a public option or even for a Medicare buy-in at 55, thus leaving us with an individual mandate and more business for the private industry. HRC might have started with public option, but at least she would have drawn the line there and fought. Even she might have ultimately come up short in negotiations, but I see it quite plausible that in the end the result would have been better because she would not pre-compromise.
Life is not a continuum of “would haves, should haves.” … “that ‘fighting harder’ would translate directly, or even indirectly, into ‘more progressive results’. There is no evidence to support such a claim.” And the posters here are forgetting the absolute disdain, even hatred, towards Hillary on the part of a large segment of the opposition party. There is a group of them that would have gone out of their way to make life even more difficult for her than for Obama.
I was actually undecided until the day of the Massachusetts primary. I never had the lofty expectations some of candidate Obama’s supporters did, but HRC’s vague race-baiting and other tactics eventually drove me to vote for Obama. Neither candidate ever seemed like a real progressive to me, and the compromises have mostly been predictable.
BUT: because President Obama is a constitutional law scholar, I have been sorely disappointed by developments such as this:
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/20/the_killing_of_awlakis_16_year_old_son/
HRC probably would be doing the same thing. It’s just more disappointing to see Obama preside over an administration comfortable with extrajudicial killing of American citizens.
“HRC’s vague race-baiting and other tactics” is what eventually drove me to question the Democratic Party and it’s principles. She did no such thing and since it was popular everywhere to get on board this race-baiting fantasy, including on the Huffington Post, it turned me off to Democrats in a way that I thought I would never overcome. But I did, and I still support Democrats, but only Democrats that will truly represent the interests of the people. Now I am willing to step away and vote my values, not just party. So I guess in a way that campaign helped me grow, in spite of the feelings of loss.
Not to rehash history, and there were many instances in which the Obama campaign was unfair to Hillary Clinton, particularly the ‘live fire’ controversy regarding her trip to Bosnia, because lets face it Obama was trying to discredit her foreign policy experience as First Lady but she did go to a war zone while he and Elena Kagan were having tea in Istria cafe at Chicago Law. But the race baiting was real, though, again to be fair to Hillary, it came from Bill and not her. He downplayed the significance of the Obama victory in South Carolina by comparing him to Jesse Jackson’s 1988 campaign which also swept the South aka-this candidate only appeals to blacks and is unelectable. That was a direct race baiting move in my view, particularly when they kept talking about how “honest working Americans” aka NOT working class African Americans and certainly not white professionals should decide the race in Ohio and West Virginia. The last minute push to call it a tie and get superdelegates to back Hillary instead also relied on using the Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia primaries as evidence Obama had a “problem” with white working class voters. So it wasn’t a myth invented by the Obama camp and its media supporters. I would again agree with you though that there were areas where we were unfair to Clinton and her campaign and areas where Obama clearly used the sex card like when he said her foreign policy experience consisted of her sipping tea with world leaders wives and ignored her significantly longer tenure on the Senate Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committees. So I will take the hit, but your side did use race baiting tactics and that is one of the main reasons I think she lost, since the Clintons still had half of the black vote and it wasn’t until those statements that it overwhelmingly shifted to Obama.