It’s been disappointing to watch progressives react more forcefully against police brutality than against the corporate looting of this country This is a time when people of all political persuasions need to be united to reverse the Wall Street Bailouts and to redirect that money to help the people who actually need it. But progressive leadership has been nowhere to be found.
This looting and violence didn’t come from nowhere… people feel scared and helpless. Progressives should have addressed this economic insecurity head-on. But that didn’t happen. Now we’re watching these violent videos and everyone is just retreating to their usual tribal loyalties. That makes working and middle class unity impossible. It’s all very convenient for the interests of large corporations, the super wealthy and the political establishment that serves them.
We like to talk in the abstract about the wealth disparity. But when the policy is actually being made, producing immediate and dramatic real world consequences, we see progressives nowhere to be found. Now the conversation is about race, police violence and the social issues that divide us. The opportunity has been missed and progressive reform is perhaps more remote than ever.
Edit to say: I’m being tough on progressives here, just because I have such high expectations of them. I expect nothing from the political establishment or the corporate media, which will jump at any opportunity to deflect scrutiny away from themselves and their backers. The age-old strategy is to give powerless people someone else to blame… each other.
Charley on the MTA says
Well … I’ll just say that police violence has an obvious racial aspect that can’t be reduced to economics and class. It is absolutely related to corporate looting — why are people poor? — but not exactly the same.
So I promoted this post, but I don’t really agree with its analysis or conclusions. 😅
couves says
There are two closely interconnected issues:
1) The need for top-to-bottom criminal justice reform, which has been denied for far too long.
2) A pandemic economic response that overwhelmingly favors the rich, while so many are genuinely struggling.
There is sadly nothing novel about the Floyd video. We’ve seen this far too many times. So why is it now that we are seeing our cities burn? We can’t accurately answer that question without completely decontextualizing recent events, which conveniently favors those who don’t want economic reform.
The recent bailout was the greatest upwards transfer of wealth in American history. Billionaires’ are seeing their wealth explode. And yet UBI isn’t even on Pelosi’s wish list. There’s been very little progressive response to this. It’s been reported that only a single progressive vote against the Heroes act.
We need progressive leadership more than ever, but I’m just not seeing it.
jconway says
I’d also add that communities of color have born a heavier burden in Covid cases and fatalities than white communities. Pressley is showing a lot of national leadership on policing reform and ending the Covid disparity, so is AOC and Pramila Jayapal.
It’s unfortunate Pelosi won’t advance their bills, even if McConnell prevents their passage, it is always better to go on offense and hold those votes against swing state senators in the fall rather than preemptively surrender.
SomervilleTom says
It sounds as though you are suggesting that the outrage about widespread brutality against blacks, coupled with equally widespread attacks on journalists, is misplaced.
It sounds as though you argue that our energy is better spent attacking “corporate looting” — whatever that means and however that would be accomplished. Should people be marching in front of Amazon headquarters and picketing Morgan Stanley, instead of protesting the continuing murder of blacks and arrests and shootings of camera crews?
Is that what you mean?
petr says
This is a rather more existential question of physical insecurity: the notion that an ordinary human can go for jog, or visit a convenience store, or just sleep peacefully in their own home, without courting death at the hands of a feckless police force or at the hands of the second coming of a third rate Charles Bronson.
People are in fear for their lives.
Christopher says
I’m firmly in the two wrongs not making a right camp, but The Atlantic explored this phenomenon.
jconway says
Not sure what the poster is trying to argue. I think we saw the prospects of an interracial working class coalition succeed in some cities and districts and fizzle out on a national level since the democratic socialists still do not know how to frame their agenda to black voters.
I think social democracies in a Europe struggle with the same issues of right wing policing that we do. Just look at Germany, France, the Netherlands, or Sweden and their record with Muslims and black migrants. It’s the same thing. The UK has an NHS and still has xenophobic and racist policing and voters who demand it.
So I say we keep confronting both. Better social programs are needed to keep people housed, Fed, educated, and healed. That’s our responsibility as a society that purports to call itself Christian or Judeo Christian or just plain moral.
I still think if we solve those problems racism does not go away. They are interconnected. Racism is the handmaiden to capitalism, especially the evolution of American capitalism, that it’s going to be impossible to beat one without beating the other. Bernie was wrong in 2016 to think so. So was TNC in his defense if neoliberal approaches to black empowerment. Only Cornel West and Rev. Barber consistently make the link between racism and capitalism and we have to kill both to kill the hydra they come from. Not just killing one head or the other.
SomervilleTom says
It appears to me that the systemic racism against blacks that pervades America is unique to America. I see little evidence of systemic racism against blacks in any of the European nations you mention. I don’t recall seeing police in Germany, France, the Netherlands, or Sweden doing anything like what we are seeing nightly in cities across America.
The savage brutality of America’s urban police forces in June of 2020 strike me as more in common with authoritarian regimes around the world.
I think petr has it right — expressing concern about capitalism in America of June 2020 strikes me as another manifestation of white privilege.
Our urban black brothers and sisters are in fear of their very lives.
Christopher says
Politico had an op-ed on this today. I saw police around when I travelled to Europe, but I somehow have this image of them being lightly policed. It may be a grass is greener on the other side issue, but I feel like Europe has less need for police. They certainly don’t have the gun problem we do. I sometimes think that getting serious about gun access here would have the side effect of reducing police brutality. If the populace were less armed maybe cops would be less likely to assume someone they encounter is armed and thus be less trigger-happy themselves.
SomervilleTom says
My wife and I have been watching a BBC series that we like — “Shetland” — set in the Shetland Islands of Scotland. It is a police drama following “Jimmy Perez”, a Detective Inspector, as he solves various murders.
We have both noticed that the police — uniformed or plainclothes — NEVER carry, draw, or brandish weapons no matter how dangerous the situation is. The protagonist carefully explores dark twisty warehouses with the bad guys hiding and ready to pounce — foreboding music heightening the tension — and no guns are drawn or shot, EVER.
Even though it is fiction, it is fiction playing to a UK audience that expects a realistic rendition of current reality. In an American counterpart, every player would have a gun, machine gun, or worse. It is refreshing to have no gun-play, few car chases and crashes, few fist-fights.
The level of on-screen violence is strikingly lower (and the videography absolutely beautiful).
We have a horrific violence problem in America. We apparently demand it in our “entertainment” and tolerate or applaud it in our “heroes”, both on television and in reality.
How can we be surprised that real-life police brutalize and murder black men, women and children along with journalists who show the audacity to record and broadcast the needless violence?
The very fabric of American society is being shredded by the hour. We MUST find a way to stop it.
I fear we will never rebuild what is being destroyed by the minute.
jconway says
Agree with this post and also second Shetland. Great show. Now that we cancelled cable we might get Britbox to catch up on the seasons we missed.
Christopher says
Too bad we can’t better distinguish between entertainment and reality. I enjoy the show Walker, Texas Ranger. From an audience standpoint he is fighting for truth, justice, and the American way against obvious bad guys, but to me it’s also quite obvious he and his cohort are a lot more violent than real life law enforcement ever should be.
bob-gardner says
Fred has just posted quotes from LBJ and Tolstoy that buttress Couve’s argument.
SomervilleTom says
The quotes in question support the assertion that the very wealthy exploit everyone else. That is an assertion that nobody here has disputed.
The essence of the thread-starter is that we, and especially progressives, should ignore the brutal violence unfolding against blacks (and journalists) and instead protest against the very wealthy (“large corporations, the super wealthy and the political establishment that serves them”).
That is the aspect of the thread-starter that I reject.
Your support for the thread-starter — and opposition to demands to end the brutality and violence against black minorities by police — reflects your white privilege.
bob-gardner says
White privilege? You got me. What’s worse, I’ve squandered my white privilege by using it to quote Tolstoy. (Or to be more precise, to cite Fred’s quoting of Tolstoy).
I could have done so much more! I could have used my white privilege to acquire property and then to whine online at the prospect of a rent holiday.
Couves has a point. Protesting police brutality and not the underlying economic disparity will have only a limited effect. It may make people feel better, But if all we want is to feel better we can watch the BBC.
SomervilleTom says
Answered with the passion that is typically expressed by white men when confronted with the evidence of their own white privilege.
Nobody has said that the underlying economic disparity should not be addressed.
That is not an excuse or reason to shirk our duty to DEMAND that police brutality and violence against minorities — and journalists — stop.
This is the point of “Black Lives Matter” — the point that you, couves, and so many “progressive” Democrats miss.
couves says
Like I said to Charley above, I support top-to-bottom criminal justice reform. I’m not against progressive social policy. My point is that progressive leadership is dropping the ball on economic policy. If they’re not going to lead at a pivotal moment like this, then they will NEVER lead.
SomervilleTom says
When the fire department arrives at the roaring inferno, their first task is douse the flames. The arson investigation that follows is certainly just as important.
Right now, I think our focus should be on dousing the flames.
couves says
Are we really in doubt about the cause? We’ve got an inflamatory video, generations of racial injustice and a crushing human and economic catastrophe. If we want imidiate action, UBI would go a long way towards at least addressing the economic element, which is no small thing.
SomervilleTom says
@UBI would go a long way:
Perp-walking the uniformed thugs into a waiting jail cell where they can rot until their first court appearance — like our police departments so often do with black suspects — would go MUCH farther than a UBI.
Yes, we need a UBI. I continue to be a strong proponent of that, among other things.
The immediate need is to stop the brutality and punish the uniformed thugs.
couves says
Are you talking about the Floyd case? Criminal charges have been made, which didn’t slow down the protests at all. This is a much broader and deeper issue. To address it will involve oversight, retraining, legal reform, etc. That’s necessary, but it’s far from simple and it doesn’t address the unique social and economic tensions caused by the pandemic.
UBI is both simple and targeted at the reason so many are on edge right now. Most importantly, UBI is just the right thing to do. The safety net is a basic part of our social contract. It’s unconscionable that we’re still letting people fall through the cracks, months after bailing out the very richest among us. You seem to agree on this — all I’m saying is that we need progressive leaders to show advocacy on the issue that is comensurate with it’s current importance to our society.
bob-gardner says
The problem is that for people who value their white privilege, things like UBI, rent control, and eviction bans are a threat to their status.. Better a perp walk for some cops. And a lot of passionate outrage. As Leo Tolstoy said . . . .
SomervilleTom says
Again the false dichotomy, from both of you. We need a UBI, as soon as possible. I’ve been advocating that for years here.
Putting a stop to police violence does not in any way slow progress towards that end.
The two of you are arguing AGAINST stopping police violence. I am arguing FOR a UBI.
UBI is no threat, I’ve been promoting it for years. Eviction bans are no threat so long as they are accompanied by foreclosure bans. Nursing old grudges about rent control is another mark of white privilege.
The fact that at least two of our frequent participants at BMG oppose efforts to stop the brutal killing of blacks shows how far the cancer of systemic racism has spread within allegedly “progressive” ranks.
couves says
Tom, I made it pretty clear I was in favor of stopping police violence. Now you’re calling me a racist? You’ve got issues… seriously.
SomervilleTom says
I don’t see it on this thread, can you point me to which of your comments you reference?
Our black brothers and sisters are demanding that our uniformed agents stop brutalizing and killing them.
Your commentary here ignores that demand. I characterize that commentary as evidence of systemic racism. I stand by that characterization.
couves says
Vapid libertarianism costs nothing.
SomervilleTom says
So demanding that police stop killing black men and women is now “vapid libertarianism”.
Your commentary seems to have dug you into a hole, and yet you keep shoveling.
bob-gardner says
I think the vapid part is pretty well established by your basing your opinions on a police show you watched on the BBC.
SomervilleTom says
I think comments like this exemplify the personal hostility that is so pervasive in your commentary.
Apparently your contempt for humanity extends to art as well.
SomervilleTom says
You upvoted the comment by couves upthread where he claimed to be in favor of stopping police violence.
In your rush to attack me, you neglected to mention which of his comments you think support his claim.
bob-gardner says
Seems like you perceive a slight. Or else the passion filled replies are a sign of white privilege.
couves says
Tom, my vapid libertarianism comment was in response to Bob. I wasn’t describing you, I was describing the party establishment which is against UBI. You say you are in favor of UBI, which I am happy to hear.
I don’t know why you are making this so acrimonious and personal. I agree that we are dealing with generations of racial injustice. I agree on the need for top-to-bottom criminal justice reform. I could go for a perp walk too, if that’s what this is all about…
If we can’t accept what the other is saying, then this ceases to be a civil discussion and it just becomes us throwing insults and bluster at each other. If that’s what you want, then you can do it without me.
SomervilleTom says
@couves:
I appreciate the clarification.
Christopher says
I’ve noticed recently comments have started to automatically note to whom is being replied, which may be helpful. As to the substance of your exchange, this seems to be a both/and moment in my estimation.
SomervilleTom says
Enthusiastically agreed. I’ve been saying that all along.
jconway says
France has an issue with over policing black and brown, predominately Muslim communities. So do the other European nations that have large Muslim and African populations.
I think where I’ll meet you in the middle is that by and large their police forces are unarmed. The UK police killed three civilians last year and the Danish killed zero. Even accounting for population and demographic differences, we kill way more at 1,000 a year. It should be incumbent on police to want to bring those numbers way down.
jconway says
So are they killing their minorities at the same rates? Far from it. Even though Holland has a big issue with Islamaphobis, my former student who moved there this year told me he’s felt a lot less profiled and targeted over there. He also has had a much harder time making friends outside his community. I think integrating the schools is another big step we can take to changing the racial dynamics in this country. He had a lot more white friends over here.