Thanks to Charley for pointing out this recent Globe article on the Second Middlesex Senate race, which lays out pretty good descriptions of each candidate’s strengths and challenges.
As the article notes, there is a candidate’s forum this Wednesday, Aug. 10, at the Somerville Theatre. There is another forum the next day, Thursday Aug. 11, at Medford City Hall. Both events begin at 7 pm. The Medford event has been much less heavily advertised and is in a much smaller venue, so you might have a better shot at actually getting to talk to these guys at that one.
Please share widely!
I don’t think anyone’s concerned about an opponent of gay marriage making a strong impression in Jehlen’s Somerville rep district.
David, you are wildly overthinking this. This is a special election in August. The only thing that matters is who can get enough people to come back early from vacation and wander into the voting booth on the 30th. Whoever has the best ground operation is going win the primary. Marriage is only important in its ability to get people through the door.
Sure, I get that. But my point is this: people who feel really strongly about marriage may be among those who can be bothered to leave the beach and head to the voting booth on Aug. 30. Once those people are in the door, they need to decide who should get their vote – and it may not be as obvious a decision as it might seem at first glance. That’s what I’m getting at.
As one of those people, let me tell you my thinking.Jehlen, for better or for worse, is identified with social progressive issues. I got fed up with the way the Con Con ran, and the House under Finneran before then, because they all presumed that young and/or gay and/or liberal and/or mobile/transplant voters don’t vote and aren’t part of the process and can be ignored. I’m voting for Jehlen as a way to stand up and be counted. I don’t care if the old guard stays in power, as long as they know and acknowledge we’re here and deserving a minimum of respect.Mackey and Callahan get it. I’d be content with either of them to be my senator. If they win, I won’t shed any tears. But my voice won’t be counted unless I’m there, voting for Pat Jehlen. I live in this House district and I’m certain that whoever follows Pat Jehlen will vote the right way on marriage. So I can worry about other issues when that race comes up.
If I were a strategic gay marriage voter, I wouldn’t want to send a message to Jehlen (and other house members) that I’m going to penalize them for taking up my position.No, I’d reward the person who banged on my gong the loudest the longest. I don’t know who that is, but I suspect Jehlen has been gonging away for some time now.
Anyone concerned with gay marriage should absolutely vote for Jehlen. MassEquality – the lead in the fight for equal marriage rights – has been explicit talking to its members that the correct STRATEGIC vote is for Jehlen because she’s the stongest pro-equality candidate in the field and it’s important not to split the vote. The fact that she’s great on so many other issues is just a bonus!
the correct STRATEGIC vote is for Jehlen because she’s the stongest pro-equality candidate in the field and it’s important not to split the voteBut just to play Devil’s advocate for a sec … let’s assume you’re right that she’s the strongest pro-equality candidate. So what? Even if she loses, she still has her House seat, she still gets to make speeches, and she still gets to vote in the ConCon. It really makes no difference whether she’s a strong pro-equality candidate in the House or in the Senate, does it? Whereas it DOES make a difference who replaces her in the House if she wins the Senate race. I’m comforted by B33 and eury13’s confidence about the district not going for an anti-marriage candidate, but still, a bird in the hand and all that…As for splitting the vote, again, my Devil’s advocate question is why not vote for Callahan, who is against the amendments, who is going to pick up a lot of old guard support for other reasons (as Troll has explained in the open thread), and who therefore will be strong enough to beat Casey. That wouldn’t be vote-splitting.
there is more to liufe then gay marriage
So now the race comes down to gay marriage. Jesus Christ. That’s what is fucking wrong with this party.
Jesus Christ, troll. Read the poll–he was asking IF gay marriage were your defining issue, HOW would you vote. Of course there’s more to life than gay marriage, but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
David, to answer your question, because it sends a message to other legislators that people who oppose the amendments are still mobilized and capable of acting when we feel ignored or disrespected.Carl Sciortino’s win changed the vote total on the amendments by a lot more than 1. It was a wake-up call to legislators who thought that voting to ban gay marriage was a safe vote–THE safe vote on the issue. Yeah, Ciampa lost for a variety of reasons, but the challenge never would have come together if Ciampa hadn’t been out front against gay marriage. We need to keep up the momentum.And that’s just one of several issues where voting for Jehlen sends a clear message. Troll, you disagree, fine. Guess what, tell me why I’m supposed to care more about the Stop sign Grandma Rossetti wants on her street corner that the City of Medford won’t put up itself than about my own legal rights. We all have our priorities. As long as my household deals with the issues we’re dealing with, as long as the legislature insists on talking about this issue, I’m going to vote based on it. I want to move on from this as much as you do, but it’s the other side that keeps pulling us back.
Sciortino was a wakje up call to others. HUH.Sorry Britain, i doubt any legilator is concerned about what happened in somerville as being consistent with there didtrict. Weather you are talking about worcester, weellesly, or west roxbury, no rep was saying “holy shit! look what they did to moron Ciampa in Somerville. I better suport gay marriagae or I am toast” Since when was crazy and unique somerville a microcosm of the other rep districts in the state.That is my point. There are many more p[eople out there then the samer ole same ole you guys surround yourself with
As for caring about old lady rosseti’s stop sign…those old ladies add up.All politics is local. Brittain…if you are gay then this is a personal issue to you and that is like rossetti’e stop sign. Her friends say good luck on your stop sign but they have their own problems. That is how many people feel about gay marriage. So a good pol helps people with the things that concern them as individuals.That is my point.P.S. nice italian medford name you chose. very good.
You have no idea who I surround myself with. I know lots of people who agree with me, lots of people who don’t. If you’ve worked on a campaign you meet all kind of Democrats and you learn real quickly (if you couldn’t figure it out already) that “my way or the highway” won’t win over voters who don’t care or disagree with your own personal issues. You think that when I did work for the general campaign last year I told people in N.H. to vote for Kerry because I’m gay and Bush wants to ban gay marriage? Yes, Sciortino’s win was big, and it’s not just Somerville, it’s because Ciampa was seen as unbeatable, because his district was still half-conservative and only had five precints out of 21 in Somerville (two of them in Ward 4, the most conservative part of the city and nowhere near Davis), because Carl did real well in Medford and won several precincts there, because he started out as a nobody, because he was able to raise a lot of money from people all over the state and get votes from both gays (of which there aren’t that many in that part of Somerville, trust me, I know), young families, and old people who were fed up with Ciampa. I didn’t make up this interpretation, it was in all the newspapers. It changed the equation slightly. Not a lot, but the 34th Middlesex is not the South End or J.P., and people took notice. Brian Golden got out quickly after that. You can believe otherwise, but it’s not just Jehlen’s gang telling each other stories, this is what every newspaper in the state was saying on September 15th last year.
Brittain…if you are gay then this is a personal issue to you and that is like rossetti’e stop sign. Her friends say good luck on your stop sign but they have their own problems. That is how many people feel about gay marriage. So a good pol helps people with the things that concern them as individuals.Here’s my problem. Why do you think I don’t know all that and take it into account?Of course lots of people don’t care about gay marriage or disagree with me. I don’t expect them to care. Candidates have different appeals to different constituencies. You do what you can to make sure your voice gets heard. You work with the candidates you have. What is frustrating in the discussions we’ve been having is that you feel you have to remind us, whenever we talk about our interests and what motivates us, that other people disagree or feel differently. No shit. I don’t care if you tell me something I already know, but it’s really obnoxious when you insult me on top of that because you think I don’t know it.
Because this blog, when talking local politics seems to be all about who is for gay martriage and defeating the amendment.That is tiring and obnoxious, in my view. And that is why this party will not go anywhere. What ever happened to bread and butter issues..like jobs jobs jobs, education, education, educatioon, and health care. Those issues have to be at the fore front.And you sound like you don’t know. Usually my insults aren’t subtle, so I did not mean to insult you by repeating myself. By the way, it is obvious that I jusat don’t like Jehlen, and am apothetic about the other candidates. I am in the anyone but Jehlen camp. And I am honest enough to say it.
Ciampa unbeatable? Again, whern did you arrive? He had very tough re-election campaigns before that. Yes gay marriage helped sciortino, but he also worked very hard and Ciampa didn’t get off his ass until it was too late.
Ok, we’re getting somewhere.You’re right. What’s on the blog is determined by who writes for it and who comments on it, and we represent one part of the Democratic party and nothing like the whole coalition. Lots of people don’t care about these issues and vote for totally different reasons. But what are we going to do about it? The other stuff is either noncontroversial (I would think the constituent services part would be, I’m surprised someone disagrees with you on that, actually) or not that interesting because no one’s put out good plans to discuss. And, actually, they did those questionnaires with Mackey and Jehlen that were about all kinds of issues, not just gay marriage, so this site deserves more credit than you’ve been giving it.But yeah, old lady Rossetti isn’t posting here and isn’t going to be, even though she’s voting in the primary, so what can we do? We can recognize that she doesn’t care about gay marriage or sees it as a bad thing, but we’re still going to talk about what will motivate voters who think or live sort of like us, and try to talk about what moves other voters.It’s great you’re here because you’ve got a different perspective and a lot more experience and connections that most of the people here. I like reading what you have to say and talking to you, as much as I’m getting worked up tonight. I don’t know what you want from me or anyone else–acknowledgment we don’t run the state and never will? You got it. All I’m saying is that I’ve got my voice and I’m going to use it, and when you hear me saying some things it doesn’t mean I’m not saying others, and that I’m not listening.Regarding Ciampa, yeah, I know about Josh O’Brien and the missing box in Medford. Sciortino still never should have had a chance. It happened as you said, he snuck up on Ciampa and took it away because he was lazy. It still never would have happened if Ciampa hadn’t pissed people off about gay marriage. But more than that, it helped that Ciampa’s first name in that primary was Finneran.
Do you read the website of the Somerville News? It’s the only blog I’ve found other than Free Republic where you don’t have Yuppies and activists dominating. You know what, all they talk about is inside gossip from City Hall and stories from 20 years ago. Everyone comes to slip their little bit of poison for whatever grudge they have. It’s interesting, but they aren’t fixing the health care system or creating jobs over there either. Check it out.
Just to clarify my point about the “strategic” voting. I was not saying that Jehlen is the strongest on the issue I was saying she is the pro-equality candidate with the strongest campaign. That’s why MassEquality is ensuring that the pro-equality people — the ones for whom gay marriage IS the most important issue — don’t split the vote. If Casey manages to mobilize the ANTI-gay marriage voters (and there are many) he will become a great force. THAT is why the gay marriage folks are backing Jehlen.Thankfully in my opinion, that hasn’t happened yet. But the OTHER reason to vote for Jehlen is that she has a record on all sorts issues that are important to people like me and others from around the district. Anyone who managed to stand up against Finneran AND STILL increase the min wage and get the contraceptive coverage bill to the floor and passed, is someone that I absolutely trust.Troll, YOU might not trust Jehlen but it shouldn’t take long looking at her website or lit to see that she is almost entirely about the bread and butter issues. You just don’t see to understand that for many people the right to equality is bread and butter too.
For the record, I’m not against constituent services. I was simply questioning the somehow accepted idea that Jehlen is bad at it and everyone else is great. Since the ConCon last year, no pro-marriage candidate has lost re-election. Many who took a stand against gay marriage have. That’s why those who care about this issue should unite behind Jehlen. Troll, you may disagree, but it does send a message to legislators from the entire state that it is safe to vote for gay marriage. There are many who were afraid to voice their support for fear of a backlash, but the backlash is happening to the other side, and it’s important (for those who care about the issue) to keep that momentum going.
Ok, here are the main points, to return to the thread topic.1) Anyone who wins Jehlen’s seat after she’s elected will most likely be pro gay marriage.2) There’s more to gay rights/gay marriage than a vote at the con-con, and Jehlen can do more for gay rights as a senator.3) It does send a message to promote someone who has been an uncompromising supporter of gay marriage (and many other progressive issues).4) Callahan gets a pass on this issue since he’s never had to weigh in on policy before – so just because he says he would vote against an amendment – we’ll, I don’t have faith in that being his position rather than an election promise. I think people should really push him on his personal beliefs on this issue. I’ve heard from enough people in Medford to doubt his sincerity on this issue.Anyhow, there’s a lot more at stake in this election than gay marriage – and Democrats decry Republicans who vote exclusively for one issue (anti-choice, anti-gay-marriage), so Democrats need to look a litter deeper at this election, and there’s more to gain than just another vote in favor of gay marriage.
Euri, 1. If Mackey and Callahan suppoort ngay marriage why should “..those who care about this issue should unite behind Jehlen.” Why? Why? Why? I really need to know.2. Tell me again why reps from other districts throughout the state would look at somerville’s electorate and and gain insight into there own district. Not even close.
I dunno, but having read through all the comments, I think they anwered both your last questions, troll, at least to MY satisfaction, maybe not yours.
Geez, I go out for dinner and World War III breaks out at Blue Mass. Group!Let me just be clear about one thing: I am not a one-issue voter, nor (I think) is anyone else who writes for this blog – as B33 correctly noted earlier in this thread, my post is about strategic thinking that a hypothetical voter who cares a lot about gay marriage might engage in. Just a little thought experiment on one way in which one might pick among candidates who are, frankly, difficult to distinguish on the “issues.” The idea was to be provocative and generate discussion. Apparently I succeeded.Now, Troll, do we post on this blog about gay marriage? Sure – it’s a hot topic, especially among those who want to end it. (If you don’t believe me, be sure to tune in to Justice Sunday II this weekend.) We also post about health care, wind power, death penalty, stem cell research, the Green Line, banning cell phones while driving, and whatever else strikes our fancy, so I really must object to your characterizing our approach to local politics as limited to marriage. And no, I wouldn’t support a candidate like Casey who is in favor of the anti-marriage amendments, but there are other issues that would be deal breakers for me; gay marriage is just one of them.Anyway, I have learned a lot from this discussion, and I thank everyone for their contributions. Carry on.
troll you are an ass.Have you EVER posted a comment about one of those bread and butter issues of substance that Blue Mass supposedly neglects? I apologize if you did and I missed it, but the only things I ever see from you are mini-rants about everyone else’s alleged misunderstanding of politics, naivete, ignorance, or whatever.According to you, the whole same-sex marriage issue is unimportant. Because you say so. Whatever. Here’s the brilliant issue analysis you offer us instead: I jusat don’t like Jehlen.Ass.
Callahan gets a pass on this issue since he’s never had to weigh in on policy before – so just because he says he would vote against an amendment – we’ll, I don’t have faith in that being his position rather than an election promise.Very true. And I doubt he’d ever lose a primary once he’s in, so he wouldn’t face any cost.
The ass responds. Hey citizen, I don’t start the discussions here, I respond to others.P.S. shouldn’t a “world citizen” you should be more open to others who don’t thinbk like you.And..As i keep saying, local politics is about persdonalities.. and I just don’t like Jehlen. Just like Kelly GaY JUST DOES NOT LIKE jEHLEN. Great insight, huh?
I do not live in the district, nor am I involved in the campaigns in any way. I do have many, many friends who are supporting Jehlen, however, and I must say I’m a bit worried about that. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Pat Jehlen, I love her strong stance on marriage, and I’m with her on almost every other issue. What worries me is that she has been consistently boring whenever I’ve met her and the word around the water cooler is that she is a less-than-inspired campaigner.I am very worried about progressive vote-splitting and, since Jehlen has racked up most of the endorsements, she’s probably the best one to back if you want to avoid such vote-splitting. That being said, though, is anyone else worried that we may have chosen the wrong progressive? Although it might seem as though I’m pushing an anti-Jehlen agenda, I’m truly not. I’ve always liked Pat, I’m just not sure of her campaigning skills. What are Mackey’s campaigning skills? Am I alone in thinking that Pat’s lacking charisma? Is it too late to worry about whether progressives have made the wrong choice; in other words, are Jehlen’s chances so much better than Mackey’s that anybody who’s concerned about vote-splitting should go for Pat anyway?
“in other words, are Jehlen’s chances so much better than Mackey’s that anybody who’s concerned about vote-splitting should go for Pat anyway?”In a word: YES. And just because Pat may not be a rock star candidate, doesn’t mean she won’t be a great senator – they are two different skill sets in reality. But she is polling ahead of the field and has been all along.
“What ever happened to bread and butter issues..like jobs jobs jobs, education, education, educatioon, and health care. Those issues have to be at the fore front.”I dunno, Troll, what happened to health care? Have you ever commented on my posts about health care? Maybe you have, and I don’t remember. Help me out here.Or perhaps since you’re concerned about bread and butter issues, you’d like to help me get some signatures for the health care ballot referendum?By the way, here are Jehlen’s and Mackey’s responses to questions about the issues, most of which I think you might agree are “bread and butter”.
Hey charley, as isaid to citizen, I don’t start the discussions here, I respond to others.The questioniers cover thew basis but all i see in the cooments are gvay marriage, gay marriage, and, oh yeah, gay marriage.
OK, so why not talk about the things you want covered specifically? Heck, if it’s potholes, talk about potholes, or stopsigns, or whatever. Bring something positive to the table.
Because I comment on what you guys talk about. If I talked about whjat I want to I would start may own blog. But from that last comment of yours it appears you agree with me.
Ok, yeah, that’s a lot of comments and arguing. My view is simply this:I did phonebanking for MassEquality in support of Pat Jehlen. She seems like a really great candidate. Her seat is in a very liberal district, so by supporting her, we are almost 100% positive that she will be replaced by a pro-marriage person. What we need therefore is to vote for the individual we feel is best for the spot in general, and that is Pat Jehlen.
“Her seat is in a very liberal district, so by supporting her, we are almost 100% positive that she will be replaced by a pro-marriage person.”see what i mean
Hey Lynne, how is somerville like other rep districts, i don’t see where that amswered
I did post the answer. “Somerville”, in the sense you use it, is Pat Jehlen’s district. The 34th Middlesex is more like 55/45 Somerville/Medford, and 2 of the 5 precincts are in Ward 4, which is more like Medford than like Somerville. Carl split 4-1 and 4-2 in Somerville and won some precincts in Medford. The 34th Middlesex isn’t Lowell, but as I said above, it isn’t J.P. or the South End. I could go on but I’d be repeating myself on other points I made above.
Soory, not satisfied about message sent on gay marriage. No reps saw it that way. Ask them. Gay italien beating a lazy rep who has always ran weak, by getting votes in somerville and south medford – (biggest italien area in heavy italien city)+ Gay Italien worked his ass off and Ciampa did not.Most reps willl say, “jeez, why didn’t that happen sooner?”NO MESSAGE SENT OR RECEIVED. Sorry to disappoint
Let me spell it out again.No rep wants an ambitious challenger from his or her district to get a sudden army of cash and volunteers triggered by one vote, even if the campaign goes 90% about other issues. Most of the reps don’t care about gay marriage but assumed the political pressure was on the other side. They were wrong. No marriage vote, Ciampa would still be a lousy rep in office today. No marriage vote, and a bunch of new Democrats in the House wouldn’t have come out of their primaries the way they did. SO, THAT’S THE MESSAGE.
Yeah Yeah Yeah, no rep wants any opposition.
So if jehlen wins who will run for her seat?
If Jehlen wins, the rumors are that likely candidates will be Somerville ward 5 alderman Sean O’Donovan (who almost ran for the state senate seat this time around), and Somerville at-large alderman Denise Provost. I think if that were the match-up, Provost would be strongly favored, but with an open seat, who knows how many others would jump in.Denise Provost was the top vote-getter in the most recent Somerville election, surpassing not just all the other at-large candidates, but also the mayor. The 27th Middlesex falls entirely within Somerville, so it’s all territory she’s canvassed already, and won big.