When I wrote an open letter urging Chris Gabrieli not to enter the race, I cited as one reason the divisiveness it would cause going into the convention. Some people on this site said my opinion was misguided and that Mr. Gabrieli would be able to receive the delegates he needed from amongst the undecideds and his supporters and that he wouldn’t have to poach delegates from the other campaigns. Those people were wrong. Deval Patrick delegates like me have started receiving letters from the Gabrieli campaign asking us to support Mr. Gabrieli on the first ballot so that he can get his 15%. The Patrick campaign, quite wisely, is not playing into this, and is asking all of its delegates to support Deval on all ballots.
This kind of political gamesmanship is the reason that I hate the multiple-ballot process at the party convention. Four years ago, the games involved were part of the reason for the bad publicity and the bad feelings amongst delegates to the convention.
I hope that delegates who declared for a candidate will stick to their guns and show their support consistently instead of getting wrapped up in this “first ballot” nonsense. If a candidate decides to enter the race after the caucuses and doesn’t have enough delegates to get on the ballot, he doesn’t belong on it.
The mailing is not the worst of it.
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I am also a Patrick delegate and all of a sudden I am getting emails from the Gabrieli compaign. They should not have my email address; I never gave it to them, and frankly am wondering where they got it.
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Something sort of smells here.
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Are any of the other Patrick or Reilly delegates getting the same emails? Any of you wonder how Gabrieli got you addys?
I get the e-mails and have received at least 5 pieces of literature from Gabrieli campaign; I did not give them my address. I assume I’m on all the lists now — I get LG literature from all four candidates and I never signed up with any of the them either. Every so often I get a Reilly mailing too. I assume that six campaigns can’t all be doing something smelly, that there’s some public/master list out there that I’m on because I’m a delegate and because I attend many Democratic events.
I’m a committed Deval Patrick delegate and I am getting almost daily Gabrielli email and snail mail too.
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I also got a phone call from them and told them that I would not be giving Gabrielli a vote at the convention.
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If you are a delegate however, you are fair game for all the candidates. They can ask and ask and ask. But you can just say no.
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Let the Reilly delegates give Gabrielli his 15%. We Patrick delegates must stay firm with our candidate.
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Oh so long ago I was at a convention where Frank Bellotti, Evelyn Murphy and John Silber were running. Silber didn’t have anywhere near enough delegates to get his 15%. A deal was struck for Bellotti delegates to vote for Silber to give him his 15% and then the Silber delegates would give Bellotti their vote on the next so that Bellotti would get the convention endorsement. Every one of the Murphy delegates stayed firm with their candidate (I was one). Bellotti got the convention endorsement but surprise surprise Silber won the September primary and in November lost to Republican William Weld. The back room deal that launched the reign of Republican Governors Weld, Cellucci, Swift and Romney. If the Bellotti camp hadn’t made that deal at the convention, Bellotti or Murphy probably could have beat Weld in November.
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The candidates probably got the list of delegates, addresses, phone numbers and email from the State Party. The candidates have to reach out to the delegates somehow to let them know who they are and what they stand for. Its not called campaigning for nothing!
Gabrielli has every right to ask delegates to vote for him.
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I would be stunned if either Reilly or Patrick wants any of their delegates to help Gab get his 15%. You can spin all the theories you like about who’s hurt or helped more by a third candidate in the race. But having an opponent who has enough money to stay on the air right through the primary can’t be a happy prospect for either Reilly or Patrick.
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If Gab doesn’t get his 15%, a week later no one will remember or care he was a candidate. He will be history.
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If Gab does get his 15%, he will be one of the top two finishers on Primary Day, and he might well win it.
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If you really want Reilly or Patrick to be the nominee, and you are a delegate, Katie Wallace has it just right: Just Say No.
Gabrielli has every right to ask delegates to vote for him.
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I am in complete agreement with this statement.
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But that is not exactly what is being asked.
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Letter from John Gabrieli
But whether you are choosing to support Chris’ candidacy or not, I would like to ask you to lend Chris your vote on the first ballot so he can continue his campaign
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Letter from St. Senator Robert Antonioni
Whether you are supporting Chris, Tom Reilly, Deval Patrick or whether you have not yet made up your mind, I think we can all agree that Chris deserves a spot on the ballot.
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What Gabrieli (or his brother or other surrogates) is saying to committed delegates is that we should not honor those commitments. Gabrieli, his surrogates and his supporters can try to dress this up anyway they want, but the truth of the matter is, Gabrieli is actively trying to poach delegates away from candidates like Deval Patrick who went to the trouble of actually doing the work to earn the support of delegates (as opposed to just handing out checks) and I think that is just wrong.
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Disclaimer: I am a Deval Patrick delegate: unbought and unbossed
Katie Wallace writes:
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Postal address is one thing, but I never authorized the State Party to share my email address. As a Deval Patrick supporter, I might legitimately sign up for the email lists of the other candidates just so I can see what their patter is — that’s just common sense.
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But when I get an email from Gabrieli addressed “To: Massachusetts Convention Delegates” it raises my hackles. How did he get my email address, linked with the fact that I’m a delegate??? I certainly never told him I’m a delegate!
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Believe me, it ain’t easy to pry people’s email addresses from them (and partly for this very reason, that they get passed around). I know. I’ve been working on the Patrick campaign for over a year, and I personally know most of the Delegates and Alternates in my delegation, yet I don’t have the email address of many of them. And if the Patrick campaign had them, I’d know that. They don’t. So where did Chris get them?
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I think there is definitely something smelly here.
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I can understand that some State Party people might want Gabrieli on the Primary ballot. They’re entitled to their opinion. But I don’t agree. If they’re going to release email information, leaving aside the ethical and legal issues, they could at least release it to all campaigns, not just the one they are trying to support. This stinks!
I actually thought that delegate contact info was supposed to be public information, and the only reason emails weren’t available in past years was because they party didn’t do a good job. If they are making the email addresses of delegates available, I think it’s good because it helps grassroots groups of delegates self-organize, and partly levels the playing field between the delegates and the party leadership (for example, in planning for petitions at the convention, or discussing charter changes).
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However, the fact that they had your email address doesn’t necessarily mean they got it from the party. They might’ve just gotten a list of names from the party, and matched it with an existing database of email addresses they might have from other sources, such as past campaigns, etc.
The rules for this year’s convention are different from four and eight years ago. To advance to the primary a candidate needs to receive 15% of the votes on the first ballot. Two candidates who each have less than that can’t do the first and second ballot swap that worked for Tolman and Grossman in 2002.
The potential confusion re: the rules change is something that Gabrieli appears to be âleveragingâ (to use strategy consultant/equity marketer terminology) in his effort not get the short end of the convention stick. Nice try.
Not that I am for Chris, but we don’t really know how long he thought he was going to be running for LG with Reilly….I think people have to remember that and keep that in mind, when debating this issue. I am for Deval, but I have seen Gabrieli in several events and he has improved each time, and has even become a bit exciting something he lacked four yeas ago.
If he wanted to run for LG he could’ve run, he didn’t need Reilly’s approval. If he wanted to run for governor he could’ve, too. He picked neither, until after all the delegates were elected.
If Gabrielli thought he was going to be running for LG with Reilly then why didn’t he RUN for LG??? Here again there were four candidates who announced they were running for LG and were working hard for it and Gabrielli thought he could just walk in and take it from then as Reilly’s annointed. Then when Reilly didn’t annoint him, he decides he’ll walk in again and take the Gov race from the two candidates who had announced they were running and were working for it.
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Can’t get enough signatures? He’ll pay people to collect signatures. Didn’t do what he needed to do to get to the convention? He’ll get the party to let him in at the convention anyway. Don’t have enough delegates for 15%? He’ll mob the airways with expensive commercials and skew the polls of people who haven’t paid enough attention yet, but remember his name from the commercial. Then the party will think they have to let him in or they will look stupid and will have blown the election.
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The party made it harder this year for candidates at the convention who didn’t do their work with the delegates to get on the ballot. Now when a candidate comes along who didn’t meet any of the criteria, but the party regulars like him so guess what. They weren’t really intending the rules to keep people out…unless they were one of the people they were trying to keep out. Is Gabrielli going to make the cut but one of the four LG candidates not going to?
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The party makes these rules and then when it doesn’t suit them, they break or bend them. Whatever. But the rules should apply to everyone and if the party doesn’t want to do that fairly, then they should change the rules and do away with the convention requirements for everyone, not just Gabrielli.
Every time I hear him I think “he is going to make such a good Secretary of Education in the Deval Patrick administration.”
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His devious letters seeking “first ballot” votes tell me he should not be governor.
From the comments on this I’ve seen so far, the commentators are missing a key point:
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THERE WON’T BE A SECOND BALLOT!
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Remember, the new rules provide for one or two ballots. If a candidate gets 50%+ on the first ballot, there is no second ballot. If no candidate gets a majority on the first ballot, there is a run-off between the two top vote-getters. Patrick is almost sure to get the nomination on the first ballot.
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Therefore, if you are a Patrick or Reilly delegate and vote for Gabrieli “on the first ballot” you will never get to vote for your candidate. Thus, you will have dishonored your commitment (assuming you made one). If you are a truly uncommitted delegate, that’s a different story. By definition, you have the right to make up your mind at the last minute.
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I don’t know how typical my area (the Berkshires) is, but around here, most delegates have declared for one of the two original candidates. I’d say about 10% of the delegates are uncommitted. I suspect the true number is lower than that, and that some of them are just being coy and know full well who they are going to vote for (and it ain’t Gab).
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Also, remember, there are no secret ballots at the Convention. The tellers will be asking for an open outcry. So it’s not like the folks back home won’t know who the defectors are. And, in this business, your credibility is a very valuable currency.
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So, the Gabrieli campaign’s request to “lend him your vote on the first ballot” seems to me to be a very devious and deceptive attempt to imply that a “first ballot” defection will be harmless. And, yes, I agree that this is a serious attempt to poach delegates. As a Patrick supporter, I find it offensive. On the other hand, what else can he do? He didn’t win a single delegate at the caucuses. I don’t think he could get his 15% if all he got was uncommitted delegates.
It would be amusing, in a sick sort of way, if 90% of the convention delegates all voted to “give Chris a chance” on the first ballot, he would be the nominee, and there would be no primary. I’d feel like I got my $75 worth out of the ticket price.
this will be my first nominating convention, and I have a question about the physical voting process.
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When the voting begins, what is the method that counts the vote? Do you submit a piece of paper? Wander over to a different section of the room for each candidate? Raise your hand?
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My point is this: if you can “see” how the vote is going and change your vote quickly before its counted, the humerous situation mentioned above can’t happen. If the vote is truly secret, then, well, it could…
Your name is called, you respond with the name of the candidate you’re voting for.
Stomv:
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Whom do you support (for Guv) and where do you live? There are lots of training sessions for Delegates & Alternates going on over the next couple of weeks, given by the campaigns and by local Dems organizations. You should try to get to one so you can learn these details and be better prepared for what will happen when you get to Wista.
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That said, I haven’t been to one yet, so my comment here is based only on what I’ve heard from my local State Committee people and on my past experience. It could be different this year, but probably not much.
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Each delegation (i.e. State Senate District, of which there are 40) has a “teller” (usually, if not always, a State Committee Member), who tallies up the votes from all the delegates. (My Distict is larger than the norm because of all the small towns we have, so we will have two tellers, but I think that’s the exception).
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Picture 100 to 200 people seated in a square section of a noisy convention hall. The teller has to get the votes counted as quickly as possible and walk them to the central counting area. Different tellers may do it differently — standing in one place and shouting, standing in one place and asking delegates to come to them, walking around, or some combination of these. In 2002, our Teller stood in one place and shouted out the Towns and Wards in alphabetical order. Each delegate then shouted out their vote. Nothing secret about that, obviously.
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btw, each Teller is assisted by a Credentials person (also a State Committee Member) who is charged with verifying that each delegate voting is entitled to vote and that they are indeed the person listed on the tally sheet.
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Again, I’m not a State Committee Member, so I offer this as my interpretation. I hope if I’ve gotten it wrong we’ll hear from those who know the skinny better than I.
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So, to answer the thrust of your question, you cannot know as the vote unfolds anything about how it is going throughout the hall — you will only be aware of 1/40th of the vote, if that. It won’t be till all the Tellers assemble in the Counting Room that the totals will be known. The results will then be announced from the podium.
I’m a Deval Patrick supporter because I have talked with him, watched him in action and listened to his very detailed ideas and vision. I think he understands that change is necessary, and he represents all the possibilities associated with change.
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On the other hand, I’ve watched Gabrielli and Reilly speak in platitudes that were no doubt carefully crafted by some consultant to appeal to the largest audience. When the three candidates spoke recently in Agawam, only Deval received a standing ovation (much like at last year’s convention) because people know the difference between heartfelt desire and platitudes.
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Reilly arrived at the forum in a limo and rushed into the venue. Gabrieli arrived in his campaign RV that can be charitably described as an enlarged “Joementum” vehicle (although his staffers were smart enough not to place a giant picture of Gab on the side). Deval arrived in his own hybrid vehicle and went directly over to his supporters to chat and thank them for their efforts. What does that say to you?
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With the troubled history of Dem conventions in this state and a party that has consistently provided us with candidates without a chance, isn’t it time for change? Why does a multi-millionaire believe that he can subvert the process? Why does the LG think that he can get away with ignoring constituents? Look no further than the state party apparatus that continues to reward the interests of the few. Don’t think that’s accurate? Well, I’ve had insiders tell me that who gets the nod is based upon a meeting of forty of fifty insiders. Who do you think got the nod to begin with and then screwed it up? Why do you think the state party rules were “interpreted” to benefit Gabrieli? Why is the party so oblivious to the actual voters? I’d love to hear some answers.
Are you all kidding me?
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First of all, the title of this post should be immediately changed to remove the word “poach” because THAT is a divisive lie.
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You’re getting up in arms because a candidate for Governor is sending you as a delegate a correspondence asking for support at the convention? And you’re angry about this? Are you insane?
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“Poaching” would be if he forcibly made every delegate support him.
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He is sending a letter to the delegates ASKING for support.
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If a delegate is otherwise committed, well, they are mature adults who can think for themselves and just decline!
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To claim that Gabrieli is doing anything remotely underhanded by sending you a letter asking for support is beyond ludicrous. It’s really insane.
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This post should be immediately taken down for its incendiary nature with the word “poach” – really ridiculous. And it just reflects badly on Deval that some of his supporters are this absurdly petty.
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This really is shameful to post something like this.
This thread is almost unbearable to read. . .and I’m a Reilly supporter!
If Gabrieli is lying to supporters, telling him they can support Gab on the first ballot to get him on the ballot, then switch back to Reilly or Patrick, then that is deceptive, wrong and “poaching” as I see it. A lot of honest people could be tricked by that – and I’m sure a lot will, if such allegations are true.
How’s this for something refreshingly simple: At the convention, vote for the candidate you want to represent you and your party in the general election in November.
If delegates are ex officio, add-on’s, or uncommitted, that makes perfect sense. Any delegate, however, who ran on a slate for a particular candidate, and received votes from people solely because of his or her support for that candidate, has a moral obligation to vote for that candidate or to withdraw as a delegate and let an alternate take his or her place. When I voted for delegates for the Convention, I did so because they were on a Deval Patrick slate, and I think they are obligated to fulfill that promise to me and the other folks who voted for them. Everyone else should be fair game.