Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

Comments

  1. We have Dr. Sam Kelley on our side. As he said at the Lt. Gov. forum, he’s a child psychiatrist: he understands Karl Rove. đŸ˜‰

  2. The Rove flapdoddle was never about much more than politics.  Libby, too, will evade any legal liability.  As will Tom Delay.  And the Duke lacrosse players.

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    I lament the criminalization of politics (and political incorrectness in the case of the Duke players) by both parties, but the Dems have taken it to new heights.  Seeing justice served isn’t the end game, winning politcal points is.

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    Will former CIA employee Mary McCarthy’s disclosure of real classified material be referred to the Justice Department?  She committed a serious crime which damaged national security — she identified herself as the leaker of the NSA telephone records program — punishable by lengthy imprisonment.  Dem response? /cricket noise/

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    Liberals and progressives do themselves a huge disservice by continuing to pin their hopes on such cheap political takedowns.  Rather than snipe at individuals with lawsuits, perhaps crafting a cogent and appealing political message that wins nationally is a more effective long-term strategy.

    • They broke the goddamned LAW!

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      The same law they want to prosecute JOURNALISTS for – giving out classified information.

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      They should go to jail if they broke the law. Or are you saying Bush administration officials are above the law?

    • And signing statements are just ducky too

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      And outing of a covert CIA agent to “get at” a political opponent is just the way stuff is supposed to work- if anyone dares criticizes the Dear Leader your family better watch out.

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      Our  country at this moment has characteristics that make it resemble Soviet Russia with FOXNEWS playing the role of Pravda and your acceptance of how America’s “politburo” is acting says a lot about your fundamental political values

    • The Plame scandal is not about the criminalization of politics (now there’s a right-wing spin point for you).  It’s about the use of crime as politics.

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      Even if the Plame scandal were about criminalizing politics, any Republican with an ounce of honor would look back on the Clinton years and shut up.

    • a lot to disagree with here, but how the hell does the Duke lacrosse players raping a stripper have anything to do with the rest of that stuff, let alone politics or political incorrectness at all?

  3. It still might not be true. Didn’t it come from Rove’s lawyer? Like I trust HIM…

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    Also, it could be a ploy to really piss of Libby – “hey, you’re the only one who’s going to hang for this…care to talk some more?” That’s my husband’s take on it anyway.

  4. (1) Rove broke no law;
    (2) Valarie Plame was by CIA internal definition as well as by federal statute protecting covert agents not covert as she had returned from overseas assignment and was working at HQ for over 5 years, hence …
    (3) … Libby is not being pursued legally for any disclosure of classified material or “outing” a secret agent.  Therefore, the only charge against him is making false statements to federal prosecutors.  And we’ll see about that.

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    Merbex … I believe you misunderstand what the NSA “wiretap” program is.  As has been sufficiently discussed everywhere, it is not a wiretap program but a data mining operation connecting known bad-guy numbers abroad with US telephone records — number to number.  No “wiretap” listening has occurred.  So far, the program has withstood FISA court scrutiny. 

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    If listening is required, i.e., if calling patterns are identified and merit further investigation, FISA warrants will be issued.  This was all reported in the NYT in December of 2005.  But it only became an issue after it resurfaced this spring.  Former CIA employee Mary McCarthy lost her job over this disclosure, and may be prosecuted.  Dana Priest and the NYTimes may have serious exposure here too.

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    Is this a “reasonable” search?  I think it is, and the courts will likely agree, too.  Your Fourth Amendment “agrument” is simply not applicable.

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    Criticism for not connecting the terrorist dots flows effortlessly and copiously from the left.  Well, the NSA program is all about finding those dots.  We’re at war last time I checked.  People are trying to kill us.  I want our government to find those dots, make the connections, and keep me and my family safe.

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    It’s no coincidence that the 17 terrorists in Canada with 3 tons of ammonium nitrate were rolled up using US intel.  We’re connecting the dots.

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    And thank’s for the character slur about my “political values.”

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    Loveable liberal … above comments apply to you as well.  Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald is not pressing national intelligence charges against Libby.  Not even perjury.  Or obstruction.  It’s a “false statement” beef.

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    To all … much of the Republican “investigations” of the Clinton administration were politically motivated, some not.  I believed then that those inquiries would come home to roost.  Which they have.

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    I’m all for investigating perceived illegal actions and prosecuting lawbreakers (Duke Cunningham, Jack Abramoff, Wm Jefferson.)  But I’m against pursuing policy differences in court, and that is what Plamegate is all about. 

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    An unqualified Joe Wilson goes on a covert “fact-finding” mission to Niger, drinks sweet tea with government officials (great covert technique!), then slams the Bush administration publically in the NYT.  Some covert mission, sent to Africa by his wife.  Furthermore, his reporting was faulty and mendacious as revealed by the 9/11 commission.  He denied being sent by his wife, which was a lie.  Questions were raised, and reporters asked the administration questions.  The rest you know.

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    By the way, the Brits still stick by their intel that Iraq sought yellowcake from Niger.

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    BTW, Part II.  Andrea Mitchell, Tim Russert, and Bob Woodward all publicly knew of Plame’s CIA employment prior to the NYT and Times reporting.  Their source: Joe Wilson.

    • That’s a lot of assertion in one post, Shep — but you haven’t linked any sources. So, rather than refute all this stuff with actual evidence, I’ll leave it up to you to provide links to reputable sources for each of your assertions. Those are the rules, after all. Then we can talk about facts.

    • You seem to have consumed vast quantities of the stuff;

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      FISA as written was good enough that the FISA courts only handed down a handful of no’s – but evidently saying no in any manner to the bunch in DC “in charge” is enough to get them to reject the law and pretty much do as they wanted.

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      They control Congress – did they ever go and say “We need a modification in the law?” -they weren’t going to risk even a smidgeon of debate on this issue.

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      And as far as “mining for data” not all the phone companies approached  for this effort felt the government made a case for what they wished to do. 

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      p>  As far as keeping you and your family safe:do you like how our port security was outsourced? Do you really think the real nitty gritty of updating our security has been done? Chemical Plants, water sources, nuclear facilities – are they as safe as they should be or do you think perhaps lobbyists who work for these industries have influenced legislation in a Republican controlled Congress enough that no real safety overhaul has been achieved? Feel safer with people like Chertoff and Michael Brown in charge of agencies? Feel safe with all the people that had ties to Iran Contra that fill this administration? They sure inspire a ton of confidence – in breaking the law to achieve what they want even when Congress says no. Feel safer that our dependence on foreign oil, regardless of the reason of the week you have been fed, is one of the primary reasons we are in Iraq? How’d you like those secret energy meetings Cheney had with members of the oil industry – oh and Enron was in the room too.Feel safer? Or do you believe that a meeting to determine the  energy policy of the US should be held in secret? Do you like that – a system of government we are so keen on exporting – democracy- holds policy debates in secret. Is that how democracy or a representative government is supposed to act? Okay with you? Feel safer that experts in science are being muzzled by this administration?

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      Facts don’t matter to the neocon bunch – idealogy matters.

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      I stand by my statement: Pravda is alive and well and can be viewed by watching FOXNEWS and reading publications controlled by Rupert Murdoch.

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      p>  BTW-Do you even know that the statement about yellowcake had been removed by the CIA from the President’s speech – a different one he had planned on giving earlier to another audience besides the SOTU? What about Colin Powell’s aide admitting the evidence presented to the UN had been ginned up?

    • As has been sufficiently discussed everywhere, it is not a wiretap program but a data mining operation connecting known bad-guy numbers abroad with US telephone records

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      I think you’re conflating two different programs which were revealed in the last few months. First of all, there’s the real-time tapping of all phone calls overseas. Secondly, there’s the whole business of requesting phone records (number-to-number only) from all the major phone companies.

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      The first one is clearly illegal without a warrant. The second program is extremely iffy. I happen to think it could be classified as an illegal pen register but I can see how folks would disagree. Like I said, iffy. I am certainly extremely disappointed in the non-Qwest phone companies for meekly complying.

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      So far, the program has withstood FISA court scrutiny.

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      Do you have evidence that the FISA court was even consulted? As far as I know, they were not, not for either of the above programs.

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      An unqualified Joe Wilson goes on a covert “fact-finding” mission to Niger

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      Unqualified?? The man was senior diplomat to Iraq in the late 80s and ambassador to western Africa in the early 90s. One of the few to have extensive experience with both Iraq and Niger. And this expedition didn’t exactly require a top-secret undercover spy; just somebody who knows the leaders involved who can suss out the truth from them.

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      Do you really believe that the CIA, when tasked with investigating this crucial information would, as a favor to Plame, send an “unqualified” individual to investigate? If you believe that, I don’t see how you can take the Agency seriously in anything else. That’s not the action of a professional outfit.

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      Andrea Mitchell, Tim Russert, and Bob Woodward all publicly knew of Plame’s CIA employment prior to the NYT and Times reporting.  Their source: Joe Wilson.

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      Please to be citing. Thank you very much.

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