Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

Debate open thread

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I’ll be on TV tonight on another channel, David and Bob are away, so it’s up to the BMG denizens to tend the hearth. Anyway, I’d rather hear what you have to say about it rather than actually see it myself. Is that so wrong?

Spill it out here.

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  1. Love the fighting between Healey and Mihos!  Makes Deval look even cooler than he already is.  Wow…Healey actually acknowledged one of Ross’ comments.  So much for her trying to make this a 2-person race. 

    • For me, that was the greatest moment of the debate and would make a great cartoon.  Healey and Mihos are breaking into a brawl and with the choreographic excellence of “Swan Lake”,(or maybe “The Nutcracker”?) Deval calmly interjects, “Alright, you two.”

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      With those three words he placed himself well above the fray. 

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      While you’re at it, freep this poll at Boston.com as to who won the debate.  As of this writing, Deval’s at 48%, Healey’s at 41%.

  2. … lets outsource all our energy needs (again) and let other places take advantage of the coming need for alternative energy sources.  Its not as if we have the scientific or technical expertise in-state to develop these industries here.  Who needs to build up prosperous businesses that will employ our citizens, reduce our dependence on foreign oil and protect our enviroment?

  4. I am still at work tonight.  I can’t watch.  It will be hard to top the last debate. 

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    Is Healy still making the mistake of ignoring Mihos and Ross?

    • She’s addressing a few more of their direct questions/attacks, some after more prodding (cough, Christy).  Thought, she still makes a point to criticize Deval at each turn.

  5. “Who’s doing your debate prep, Christy?  Oliver Stone?”

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    Mihos didn’t bash Muffy, but Muffy still snarks at Christy.

  6. I think its funny the biggest crowd reaction (not counting the reporter’s question) was Ross’s response about the conflict between Healey’s “people’s will” stance on taxes vs the one on Springfield’s government.

  7. She’s never going to get anywhere until she learns to ignore Mihos.  He baited her into giving up 10 seconds from her closing statement!

      1. Healey did seem better prepared tonight giving specific ideas and plans.
      2. Patrick still took the high road and still won this debate
      3. Grace Ross rocks! However it is too bad she didn’t come out as a lesbian when she had the perfect opportunity tonight. She let the queer community down tonight. Deval’s answer was more solid: the law has a discriminatory background and should be abolished.
      4. I still do not like the way Patrick talks about immigration. It isn’t strong enough.  All residents of our state should be able to work, live, and learn in this state period.
      5. Loved it when Patrick said “okay you two!” in response to the bickering between healey and mihos.

      • Besides his closing, Deval’s best moment was when he was critical of the 1913 marriage prohibition.  He said it was enacted at a time when other states were enacting bans on interracial marriages.  In that context, it’s got to go.

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        Bravo!

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        Interracially married and glad the government doesn’t care!

      • I agree with your #4 point.  He has specific points he doesn’t address – i talk to people who think he wants to give free tuition to illegal immigrants which isn’t true BUT Muffy is working on people’s fear about immigration is defining this issue for him.

      • I didn’t watch the debate tonight–what was the opportunity Grace Ross missed to come out?  I don’t know the context, and I’d like ot hear it.  At frist glance, it seems a bit harsh to say that she let down the queer community for not coming out–when she already is quite out.  Most profiles I’ve seen mention that she’s the first out lesbian running for governor.

      • As a member of the “queer community” I don’t feel let down the tiniest bit by Grace Ross tonight. 

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        Until I read your post, I didn’t even know she was a Lesbian (actually I still don’t, having it only on your hearsay), and that’s fine, because it doesn’t and shouldn’t matter.  And I can say honest as pie, queer to queer, that I don’t care about her orientation.

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        As long as she isn’t hiding it, why on earth should she make it an issue in the race?  She’s speaking for Everyman and Everywoman, not queers.  I find Patrick’s argument that the anti-miscegenation law should be removed because it is wrong more compelling that I would have if Grace Ross had said “speaking as a Lesbian, I’m against this law”.  I think it would only have weakened her point and allowed people to chalk her views up to her orientation rather than believing in what’s right.  (I do think she could have been more eloquent and decisive on the question, like Patrick was.)

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        Tangentially, am I the only one who is surprised that gay marriage has NOT come out as a dividing issue during this race?

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        • The Healey camp continues to be better at getting its issues into the forefront.  Partly it’s because they will go to greater lengths to get the media’s attention (the Spend-O-Meter self-parody), but I would like to see the Patrick campaign do better at not conceding the agenda.  The question on the anti-miscegenation law was the first one on an issue where Healey is bucking public opinion, and she struggled mightily to arrange the meaningless words out of her mouth into a sentence.  Deval has done a good job of explaining his reasons for disagreeing with the majority when it has come up, but he should bring up more issues like this one that put Healey on the defensive.

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          • This is still a hot topic and I think it works in Patrick’s favor not to be called on in a debate to state his position (which is pro-gay-marriage) so I’m perfectly happy that it isn’t a central issue in the campaign.  I’m just surprised.  I actually think that if Healey decided it use it as such, she could use it to her benefit.

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            Frankly I think no one wants to go near the issue. Politically it is a no-win topic.

  8. Kerry wasn’t as mean in going after Deval.  Christy was still a buffoon, but less so.  And, thankfully, he is still our buffoon.  Deval was still to nice given the nastiness of Kerry (I know folks will disagree with me) but his closing went in the direction I wish he took the entire night.  And Grace Ross shined again, especially putting Kerry in her place about respecting the “will of the people”, except if you live in Springfield.

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    Bottom line, Kerry can’t get any traction in her attacks on Deval when you have the other three candidates pointing out her serious weaknesses.

  9. If Lt. Gov. Healey is so hot to have everything voted on by the people in a referendum go into effect then why isn’t she out campaigning to get that up and running? Didn’t the Massachusetts electorate approve publicly funded campaigns?

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    She’s awfully selective in which referendums should be abided by and which should not.

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    Oh, and she just can’t get elected. I simply cannot have that face looking out at me for 4 years or more. I just couldn’t take it. She always looks like she’s been sucking on lemons.

    • Her husband got a huge tax break on the backs of the rest of us.  Now she’s running ads with it.  So I’d say, she’s already using public finances in her campaign.

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      (just had to work that dig in somewhere)

  10. I thought the debate was on the dull side.

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    Given that this debate broke no new ground, and didn’t add to the Christy-Media entertainment scale, I would think future debate viewership will be down.

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    It’s a status quo debate with Deval up by 25-30 points.  That’s a win for Deval.

    • Also, the bar was set so high based on the last debate.  It would have been hard to top the theatrics of that one.

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      I did like that Patrick was the only one that answered the 1913 marriage question.  I know why Healy didn’t answer it, but I was a little surprised when no one else did either.

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      Overall, though, a kind of meh debate.  Patrick came out looking great, as we knew he would.  Healey came out looking like a Botozed snob, which we know she is.  Ross came out looking like a well-informed, well-spoken crusader, which we learned last time that she is.  And Christy got some laughs (“you all should know this about me”) which we could have guessed that he would.

    • With the polls showing a not very close race and the debate once again before prime time, I wonder if as many people tuned in as last time. Or, even if they started, once there were fewer fireworks and the discussion started getting very specific to Springfield, whether a lot of people outside the Springfield area flipped channels.

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      Given that relatively few voters appear undecided at this point and the race seems lopsided (although I’m still worried), I’m not sure this one held a lot of interest outside political junkie-dom. If the average person is tuning into one political story today, I’m guessing it might be Page-gate and not the debate (even boston.com has a photo of Hastert and not the debate).

  11. I met my SO for dinner, and so missed out on the debate. However, I caught the 6PM WCVB news, which covered Muffy and Deval at some sort of business conference in Randolph today. The gist of the report is that there were a number of folks at the conference who were leaning away from supporting Deval support because of a supposed lack of specificity concerning exactly what he’s going to do which will address their concerns, while Muffy was shown making statements about specific actions she would take (the wisdom/reality of those actions may be questionable, and I wonder if the story was somewhat slanted, but that’s another mattter).

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    The point I’m trying to make — not very well, perhaps –is that I’m concerned that the Healey camp is doing too good a job of defining the discussion through her ad. Even if she’s only so-so during debate, her ads are developing a meme of “you can trust us because we’re giving you measurable specifics” — and more people see the ads than watch the debates. I don’t know whether Deval was able to get into specifics during the debate, but I do think he needs change the image of floating above it all while Christy lands the punches for him.

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    Do others think my concerns are justified?

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    • In the post-debate coverage on NECN they even brought that up: that he’s actually been quite specific about a lot of things all along, but that a lot of people are listening to Healey anyways.  I’m afraid it might be true.  I guess Patrick should get some commercials out there soon with specifics.

    • if you are concerned that her ads will eat into Patrick’s lead, then you need to do the one thing that will boost Patrick’s lead:

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      talk to people about why Deval’s positions grew out of his curiosity to learn details.  Talk about why you think he’s a better leader even if you may not agree on every issue with him.

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      That’s what is in your power–and the power of personal contact will surprise you.

      • The campaign has a macro-level job to do as well. If people get the idea that the issues in this race are the income tax rollback, illegal immigrants, and cracking down on CORI, then Deval and the campaign are not doing their job, 25 point lead or no.

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        Why did Healey’s talking points get to be “the issues”? Why aren’t “the issues” property tax increases, local aid cuts, many underperforming schools that are failing students, Cape Wind and clean energy, and the Big #$%&ing Dig?

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        The way to “kill the clock” in this race is to present an alternative, progressive agenda, including the sorry-assed record of the current administration. Let’s not let Muffy back into this thing by playing on her turf.

        • Sorry, but the grassroots stuff is not enough  (6.00 / 1)
          The campaign has a macro-level job to do as well. If people get the idea that the issues in this race are the income tax rollback, illegal immigrants, and cracking down on CORI, then Deval and the campaign are not doing their job, 25 point lead or no.

          Why did Healey’s talking points get to be “the issues”? Why aren’t “the issues” property tax increases, local aid cuts, many underperforming schools that are failing students, Cape Wind and clean energy, and the Big #$%&ing  Dig.

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          The problem with Democrats (and leftists in general) is that they too often react to the perception of the perception: thus placing themselves at several removes from the reality.

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          Here’s the question: Do you like Deval Patrick?  Is he specific enough for you? What are your issues and does Patrick address them to your satisfaction?

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          If so, isn’t it likely that a sufficient number of voters are equally intelligent and thus able to figure this out as well? After all, you’re not responsible for them… 

  12. Grace Ross rocks my socks.  Man, I just love her.  She talks like a real person.  She says things that makes sense, and she says them with the perfect combination of humor and ernestness.

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    Unfortunately, no one has ever heard of her.  She’s polling at 1% (equal to “other”).  There’s no chance she can win.  And it isn’t just that she’s a minor party candidate, it’s because she really is unelectable.  There’s not an ounce of politician in her.  She’s not pretty, she’s not rich, she’s not suave, she’s not charismatic. 

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    I want to live in the kind of society where the Grace Rosses of the world have a chance. 

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    The plus side of the fact that she can’t win is that she can say stuff, stuff the contenders can’t get away with saying.  She can be blunt and candid and say stuff that needs saying.  I sent her campaign some money because I want her to be able to keep saying that stuff for the next 4 weeks and 6 days.

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    I’ll be voting for Patrick in November to keep Healey out of office (and because I think Patrick is an excellent candidate!)…  Unless Patrick is looking like a landslide on Nov. 6 and then I just might indulge myself with a vote for Ross.

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    (cross posted from my blog.)

    • Grace could win.  Not this race, but she could win another race and be highly effective.

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      I hear her and I hear the words (and voice) of one of my selectmen.  There is sort of a midwestern progressive common sense about her that gets noticed on the floor of town meeting.  She would be great in local government.  If she was willing to come home to the Democratic Party, she could become a very effective state representative.

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      Don’t despair that she can’t win.  She’s just out of her league.  But, as in baseball, your great prospect needs to work in AA and AAA ball to polish the craft, so does a political leader. 

    • I’ll vote for Patrick, but if I’m lucky enough to get polled I’ll tell them I’m planning to vote for Ross.  She has had the most to say and I’d like to see her get some recognition for her contribution.

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  13. …but they knew how to put on an entertaining debate. And, because of their bias, we had a lot more to talk about.

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    I’m torn: sensationalism is so much more fun, but it is troubling that everything in politics seem to slant that way.

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