Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

Debate open thread

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Hoo boy, this is a nasty one so far. Ross just took Healey to task for “re-traumatizing” women who have been victims of sexual assault. Ouch.

Whaddya got?

UPDATE: All right, I don’t have much to say about this, since it seems like most of it has already been said. I think even the candidates are just wanting this thing to be over already.

A few months ago, I noted Healey’s fairly high negatives in her poll numbers, and wondered if $15 million would buy her “cuddly”. I’ll never know. After yet another abrasive, unpleasant and unenlightening performance by her — like being yelled at by the principal — I just have to wonder what she ever thought she was doing in this race. What positive vision has she brought to the table? How would Massachusetts be an improved place in a Healey administration? What greater opportunities would exist? What improvements in everyday life? What greater freedoms? And how would you accomplish your great goals? To what can we aspire?

Come on, throw us a bone, Kerry.

As it stands, someone had better send out a search party for her dignity.

… And by the way, phooey to Cokie Roberts and the jeering jackals in the audience at Jordan Hall. It sounded like a high school cafeteria tonight.

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  1. And Patrick’s election to lose. She’s hoping that by acting like a terrier with a bone in this debate she will trip Deval up somehow.

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    But too late, Kerry. You’ve dug yourself a nice big hole, after ignoring the advice to STOP DIGGING, and the only thing that will save you now is a ladder from Patrick. Somehow, I don’t see that happening.

    • I like Deval even better now. And Christy continues to make me laugh. 

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      Ranked from first choice to last, here’s mine:

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      Deval
      Christy
      Grace
      ….

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      Love,

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      Mary

    • She provides some good points at times but honestly she wouldn’t have a shot under any circumstance.  She’s not charismatic enough (being a -to be blunt- dumpy woman and gay doesn’t help), her positions are much too extreme for the general public and she doesn’t have the resume. 

      • If anything, gay people are extra charismatic =p

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        In all seriousness, her problem isn’t a lack of charisma. I agree that she probably wouldn’t be a very electable candidate if she were a dem or if there was clean elections, but it probably has much more to do with her background than the fact that she likes to lick women’s vaginas. People are sadly turned off by protesting “activists.”

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        To further make my point, there have been a lot of gay candidates running for office this term all around the country, from Cape Cod to Alabama.

  3. Gotta admit it, I like the nothing to lose attitude of Mihos tonight.  Devals got my vote, but Mihos seems the most authentic speaker up there tonight.

    • Distort, smear and misrepresent.

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      I’m glad Deval called her on at least some of her lies.

  5. The format sucked as usual —  who the hell is planning these debates? 

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    Healey obviously has decided to go down swinging. 

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    It was her best debate (because the format worked to her advantage), but it’s not enough —  she did nothing tonight to broaden her appeal.

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    I know there are a lot of Grace Ross fans on this site, but to tell you the truth I find her really annoying.  She was very patronizing tonight…

  6. What an embarrassment this forum was. This was more akin to a match among 4 gladiators. Shame on Cokie Roberts for losing control. Kudos for Deval for struggling to keep his composure.
    Anyone else notice the Healey thugs whooping it up at the end?

    • Loved that the director went to the audience on that.  Who’d wanted to be counted among those guys?

    • Just a thought but could those thugs have been orange jumpsuits in sheep’s street clothes.

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      Sounded more like a keg party…….

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      BTW, did anyone else notice that when Healy was spouting numbers, she looked like she was reading off a teleprompter?  Perhaps she of those that needs a focus point in the distance, to keep her mind in negative mode.

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      I thought Cokie was going to bring out the yardstick on Healy a couple of times…..but she also let it get out of hand at times.  I’d like to hear her comments, on her next national TV appearance. Sunday morning perhaps?

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      I’m still thinking that Deval will tap Ross for something in the Administration…every time she was speaking, Deval was taking notes.

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      Prosecutor? Um, yeah, enforcing the ADA in Federal court.  Disney World, world wide web access, Hey Kerry, could you find your way around the old DOJ documents?  I’m not a criminalist and I found it.

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      I’m carrying an extra sign on Election Day at my polling place-

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      “What have you done today to make you feel proud? – I VOTED FOR DEVAL!!!

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      Barb

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  7. This was her best debate so far, but she’s still pulling stuff out of her ass regarding illegal immigration and taxes. She sounds like a broken record.

  9. Not trying to stretch this too far, ok, maybe a little. The globe poll for who won the debate has Deval at 70%. In the past this poll had mirrored the general polling data on the race. A small sign that the Healey people are throwing in the towel perhaps…

  10. I thought Cokie did a good job. I liked her question on the role of government.

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    I have to agree with (Tom?). Sorry Grace you were a little annoying tonight.

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    Christy, I thought Kerry got the best of you tonight.

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    Deval, it seems to me, played it well with the right balance of aggressiveness and “governorish” composure. I will say that you lost me when you told Healey that she had no plan and then said yours was the same?

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    Kerry, my dear, my goddess, my loveliness, my courageousness inaction wunderkind – you actually did pretty good. You had the best one liner “Christy you have one idea and Deval has none” Not true, but very good. Unfortunately you have not taken any of my Hail Mary advice and are still dead in the water. And please no more statements about Iraq.

    • Hmmm… They praise Grace for her politics but get a little ticked when she criticizes Patrick.

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      Well that’s okay with me. Healey is an easy target- but we don’t have an alliance with Deval- so bring it on.

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      Healey can’t handle ALL the beating ALL the time.

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      Go get ’em Grace!

      • I didn’t have a problem with her criticizing Deval (I have had  my own for Deval), I was referring to the complaining about lack of attention. The first time it was effective, but by the fourth time I felt it was overkill.

      • I thought Ross was a breath of fresh air in the last debate, but in this one, I did find her annoying. And not just for her criticisms of Patrick, but also with Healey.

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        In fact, I thought Patrick really “talked the talk” – literally – in his refusal to be as combative as the other three. (I should admit, I only caught the last 15 minutes, so forgive me if I’m missing stuff.)

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        His diplomacy will serve him well as governor, as he seems open minded and willing to really work with everyone. And, for the most part, he doesn’t stoop to attacks. He seems more interested in working together with all the people, whatever their views. But he’s also got the courage to stand up for his position when alternatives aren’t feasible (e.g., a tax rollback might be nice, but it’s just not feasible right now).

  11. I thought this was Deval’s best debate, he won tonight.

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    You know, at a gut level for voters (particularly swing voters) that were watching it on TV at home tonight is this question – which one of these 4 people do you want to be watching on TV in your home for the next four years?  The answer to this question is one of the reasons why Deval is going to have such a big win next week.

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    Casting all issues aside:

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    Christy’s directness is refreshing but he has a hard time ever getting a complete sentence out of his mouth and seems a bit unhinged, you never know what he could order the State Troopers to do if he got really pissed off…

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    Ross (who had her worst night tonight as a serial complainer) is too funky looking to be taken seriously as Governor and have her on the tube every night.

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    Healey, I agree with someone I read above me, comes across as a lecturing school principal, almost as if she’s saying in these debates “I know you are thinking you will vote for him, but shame on you because you are not taking this vote seriously and there are consequences”… Please Kerry, get off of my TV screen. I look forward to seeing your concession speech but that’s about it.

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    Deval, at his best, speaks beautifully and is inspirational and even for those who have heard his campaign lines over and over and over again can still be very real, very engaging and very present and in the moment – like a real human being, like the kind of person most people want to be in life.  He’s the one most voters will decide they want to vote to keep on TV…

  12. I guess I should have guessed that Healey ops/volunteers watch this blog (Hi guys, talk about pickin’ the wrong horse huh?).

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    After that last post the globe poll got slammed by Healey “support”.

  13. has the audacity to call Patrick a liar…with her fuzzy 13:1 student teacher ratio and no new tax pledge.  The highlight for me was Patrick throwing Healy’s numbers at her and asking how how she would replace all of the revenue. What was it that he said, “every body seems to get it except for you”.  I guess Healy doesn’t have a plan to fund her 50 ideas.  Christy seems desperate and is rather annoying at this point.  Grace usually gets me to laughing when she calls the Dems and Republicans out, but she was over the top tonight and didn’t know when to call it quits.  Although Grace is right, Healy does not give her the time of day.  I wonder what Sean and Kerry say about Grace when they are confined to their bedroom.

  14. I watched the debate at the Worcester Elks Club (following the last volunteer meeting) with a boatload of people, which is always fun.

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    At any rate, Healey did not fare well tonight.  She came across as alternately angry and desperate.  Patrick’s (paraphrased) “you think that tax cut’s going to solve everything” line got huge applause here.  She is possessed. 

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    Mihos couldn’t field the question from Ross about the 8,000 jobs–he looked amateurish and ill-informed.  And Ross came across as a bit of a whiny crank in the end. 

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    Healey.  Where to start.  Jesus, she is just so unlikeable.  Mihos definitely nailed her with that question about the 59% unfavorable rating.  Her hostile and undignified response took a toll.  In short, she spent the entire evening solidifying what people already know about her. 

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    All in all, Patrick closed the deal.  Came off as composed, confident, aggressive when necessary, and quick on his feet.  Gubernatorial material. 

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    It’s time to land this plane. 

    • How was the meeting? I volunteered during the primary (held signs and closed poll) and have received very few e-mails this time around.  I live in the Worcester Area.  I also had one of my co-workers pass my information on again to one of the coordinators and no one has called me.  Do you know in what area help is needed?

      • Call the Worcester office at 508-791-0400…they are looking for people on phones from now through Tuesday and have lit drops scheduled all weekend as well.  Help is definitely needed!!

      • They need folks this weekend for lit drops and GOTV calls.  The finalized lists of ID’d voters will be ready on Friday night, so if you have a senate district or town coordinator, s/he can get you hooked up with lists of people to call.

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        If that doesn’t quite fit for you, do this:  show up at the Shrewsbury Street office anytime this week or weekend and they’ll get you squared away.  They’ll also give you a schedule of stuff that needs to be done for the times you’re available for Monday and Tuesday in your area.

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        Don’t be shy about dropping into the Shrewsbury Street office. 

          • We need your any every/anyone’s help…Nothing is taken for granted until the voters have spoken.

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            I’ll be honest. I skipped the volunteer’s meeting because last time they botched the whole thing so badly that I didn’t get to see any of the debate. I’ll get my marching orders and follow through on them, but watching the debate with 200 clapping, screeching people is not my idea of osmosis…After a tough night of phone banking the “what’s left” lists last night, I needed a break to sit home with a glass of wine for the event.

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            Regardless, what happens for GOTV from now until the polls close up is essential. If you are willing to help and haven’t dropped your name, please please PLEASE call campaign HQ at the number in the above reply. They’ll get you set up to work it when, where, and how you can.

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            I, for one, am making no distinctions between this and the Primary, where I really did have to wonder if we had it won until the numbers showed the mandate.

  15. Is there a Red Mass Group blog where the Healey fans say, “Wow, she really nailed him with that ____ comment!” and “Ross really got under Patrick’s skin . ..”?

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    I imagine those who are honest would be saying, “Well, she tried really hard, but we’re never going to close that 900 % gap”

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    It would be fun to see how her (deluded) fans see it.

    • If you’re feeling masochistic, you could pop on over to hubpolitics.com. However, there really isn’t ANYTHING like Blue Mass Group for Republicans in Massachusetts – either in ‘community spirit’ or non-hackish, somewhat intelligent posts where real debate is actually valued.

  16. Usually, after they go to sleep, reality catches up as the rest of the world votes.

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    I bet the Globe logs the IP addresses of the votes. It would be funny to see how the voting blocks line up, especially if the addresses resolved in some likely places. (which is why I suggest you just leave your poll cookies alone, friends).

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    I bet it’s Ole Karl in the West Wing, pecking away at the cookie files . ..

  17. I can’t take looking at the boston.com poll..Healy 63% and Patrick 32% The only time I would like to see that is to describe Healy’s unfavorable rating…yikes

    • Kerry has the support of idiots who will sit and vote over and over again on a meaningless online poll. It is the only thing she is going to win, rather pathetic, really…

  18. Why Charley on the MTA?  Why not a woman blogger for this debate?  Women should have a prominent voice in the blogsphere–there are plenty capablye (and willing female bloggers…) just say the word, and we’re there.

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    A feminist is a person who answers “yes” to the question, “Are women human?” Feminism is not about whether women are better than, worse than or identical with men. And it’s certainly not about trading personal liberty – abortion, divorce, sexual self-expression – for social protection as wives and mothers, as pro-life feminists propose. It’s about justice, fairness, and access to the broad range of human experience. It’s about women consulting their own well-being and being judged as individuals rather than as members of a class with one personality, one social function, one road to happiness. It’s about women having intrinsic value as persons rather than contingent value as a means to an end for others: fetuses, children, the “family,” men.
    (Katha Pollitt)

    • Stop bitching. If you feel this is a bastion for male chauvanists, you’re freaking deluded. Start a blog (check).  Make it as popular as BMG. Get press invites to the important stuff.

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      Don’t bitch about Charley covering things you can’t/won’t…Do something about it. I’m all for equal opportunity when combined with equal effort.

      • Thanks for the flame. I’ll use it wisely…campaigning. Hope you do as well. 

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        I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the
        death your right to say it. – Voltaire

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        PS-I dont’ think I am at “bitching” category yet. This is only my second post on getting more feminist bloggers out there.  Why does it bother you so much, though?  Funny your remember, when my post was almost a month ago…?

        • What is it that I remembered? My comments were based solely on the fact that you expected a great MA Dem political blog, which happens to be run by three men, to send a female blogger for the sake of it. All of this was based on your comment right here.

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          My sentiment remains: Quit bitching. If you don’t feel that your gender is represented here, do something about it. Start a female BMG and make it what this place is today. I’ll virtually guarantee you can’t, and it has nothing to do with your sex and everything to do with your attitude.

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          You don’t think you’re in the bitching category when you put up an entire comment devoted to the fact that a female didn’t blog the event? I beg to differ.

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          And again, to your last question, what bothers me so much is whining about gender inequality at a place like BMG, where everyone has a voice. There’s better issues to be tackling. If you feel like, as a female, you’re not being heard…Make it so that you are.

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          Turn this and my other reply into whatever you’d like, but I hold no issues with female bloggers. Lynne, Susan, and other women are doing a fine job at changing politics. Guess what? They made their own way to becoming respected voices through hard work rather than whining about how the female voice wasn’t being given an effortless pass to the online soapbox. They also represent their views predominantly as civic enthusiasts rather than women. If you’d like to work with a different formula, one more centered towards the female agenda, I welcome your efforts. But please stop bitching about what wasn’t handed to you at BMG.

  19. Almost stupid to bother asking, just get rid of her already!! But what exactly was she saying about illegal immigrants? Did I get that right? She loves em?? Has a bunch working hard for her campaign?? Their great for the economy!! BUT LET’S NOT GO CRAZY, giving them any rights or priveleges! Just use em for what suits your immediate needs but keep em in their place. Understand she was probably attempting to redirect the conversation and steer focus to misrepresenting Deval’s position on the issue, but what does first half of her lead-in statement say about herself? Can’t open her mouth without exposing her true nature = sanctamonious hypocrite bitch. Adois Healey.

    • She’s not someone I want to defend, but to be fair, she was talking about legal immigrants.

  20. This was the first debate I attended in person and yes, the overall atmosphere felt like coasting to the finish line.

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    The street outside Jordan Hall was closed for that one block.  A bit of a crowd for sure, but nothing to break any records.  We went in just before the doors closed at 6:30… lots of empty seats up in the balcony.

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    After all four took their places, Cokie gave us in the hall a little intro and review of the ground rules.  She admonished us repeatedly… “if your applause and hollering take away from another candidate’s time I’ll deduct the same from yours… I’m tough and I mean it!  Really!”  🙂

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    Then we had to wait a few minutes for the news stations to cue us in.  Christy crossed all the way across the stage to schmooze with Patrick, leaving Healey and Ross to trade banter in the middle.

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    The debate itself: excellent!  You’ve already seen that part.

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    It was great to hear and see the audience reaction.  So many times people just laughed out loud when Healey went off on a tirade, especially when it involved the words “roll back the income tax”.  All you could see were people rolling back their eyes.  There were even whispers of “Small Government is Beautiful” a la Carla Howell.  Things may have been different in the red-shirt section, but not in most of the hall.

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    The best line was from Grace, who pointed out that Kerry has “no more of a chance of winning than either of the two of us [Ross/Mihos]”.  And she’s right.  Unless the Patrick people give up entirely and ACTIVELY TRY to lose (sure it ain’t over till it’s over, but at this point I don’t think even that would work), there is just noway* Healey can win.  If there ever was a “safe” time to vote for a Green or Independent, this is it. 

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    Ok, ok, I’m sure I’m going to get shouts and screams from the die-hard Deval fans, but look at it this way:  what could be more beautiful than a landslide for Patrick, besides a landslide for Patrick AND Healey coming in last place!

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    I’m dreaming, I know.  But you gotta admit, it would be beautiful.  Even uncle Karl might notice.  🙂

  21. I don’t think it broke any new ground, but I have to say it was more fun to watch than the last yawner.

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    My favorite bit, uncommnted on yet, was when Patrick directed a question to Ross.  It was a double win for Patrick: 1) it showed respect and willingness to listen which is a foundation of his platform; 2) he chose a question that let him highlight his own understanding of the issue of affordable housing.  Because Ross isn’t a serious contender, he could “rebut” her answer by saying “Yes, great ideas, and let me add even more”.  He comes out looking like a statesmen without risking losing points at all.

  22. This debate was pretty fun to watch with some great lines.

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    This is my ranking on how each candidate did:

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    1. Mihos – Great lines attacking Healey and speaking the truth regarding what he would do if he won. The line of the night was his 1st question to Healey asking her to drop out of the race.

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    2. Patrick – Composed even in the face of Healey’s attacks but I did not like his or healeys attitudes towards Mihos or Ross like they were not even there. I think he and healey may have turn off voters a little bit with that show of who cares about the little guy.

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    3. Ross – not much to say, her worse debate but how much was she really involved.

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    4. Healey – I am not sure how some people can say she won this debate. She had a hard time handling criticism and speaking the truth. Plus as I said with Deval the ignoring of Ross and Mihos could be a turn off for voters. I think her performance made this election turn into more of a landslide then the polls are predicting.

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    My prediction for the election after all the debates:

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    Patrick 60%
    Healey  20%
    Mihos  15%
    Ross  5%

  23. Even if you are a Republican, you would have to be fooling yourself to think that Kerry Healey could be an effective governor.  She does not grant the other candidates the tiniest amount of respect, never compliments them or concededes that they may be right about anything.  If that is the way she treats her opponents, how exactly is she going to be able to negotiate with a state house that is under Democratic control?

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  24. I think the debates tell us more about the candidates’ “grace under fire,” than how well they will actually govern.

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  25. Grace Ross should update her resume. Patrick should hire her when he becomes governor.
  26. Healey should join Chris Gabrieli in some entrepreneurial endeavor that doesn’t involve politics. I think she hasn’t gone after Romney because she hopes he’ll become president and give her a job. Maybe head of EPA. She can be the next “wind dummy.”
  27. I think Mihos cares more about sinking Healey than becoming governor. And, pul-eez, stop already with the “I was the only one born here” shtick. Just because my parents didn’t decide to drive across the border (NY’s) until I was four, doesn’t mean I could never be eligible for public office. It takes more than a Massachusetts accent to lead.

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    Cokie Roberts said on Ch. 5 before the debate that she was hardpressed to come up with new questions. Excuse me?

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    1. What would be the top environmental problem you would tackle as governor? Predictable soundbites: Patrick–wind power; Ross–global warming; Mihos–not sure; Healey–what environmental problem?
    2. Have you ever been to a state park? If so, which? If not, why?
    3. What is RGGI? (Ross should know.) Why is it important?
    4. Do you favor an enhanced bottle bill?
    5. What is your position on BU’s proposed bio lab?
    6. Do you think an LNG terminal on a Boston Harbor Island is a good thing or not? Why?

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    Other topics:
    7. A child died in the care of DSS last year. Can you name that child? What would you do to prevent that from ever happening again?
    8. DSS returned $24 million in unspent funds to the state treasury. Is this a good thing or not? Why?
    10. What is your position on the Kelo v. New London, eminent domain, ruling?

  28. The Herald is scrabbling around like a cat trying to bury its crap on a marble floor, trying to make this one look like a win for Healey. It’s almost as if they didn’t actually watch the debate–no mention of Mihos’ antics or entertaining zingers. You really would think from their report that Healey successfully cornered Deval when in fact she allowed him to clarify some important points on taxes and immigration. I thought it was easily his best debate. She was shrill and overly aggressive and her goons in the audience seemed to think they were at a Bruins game, not a debate.

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