I really don’t get this at all: Tom Birmingham, of all people, wonders if Patrick is squishy on MCAS?
“This was a policy discussion,” he said of the breakfast, held at the Omni Parker House Hotel. “Four days before the election, or wherever we are, I’m not going to throw a stink bomb. I just said I don’t understand precisely what his position is on MCAS as a graduation requirement.”
Birmingham said he wasn’t accusing Patrick of having a secret plan to dump MCAS “or anything of that sort; I just don’t know.”
What the hell is Birmingham thinking?
In an e-mailed statement after Birmingham’s remarks, Patrick spokeswoman Libby DeVecchi said the campaign has reached out to Birmingham and let him know Patrick strongly supports MCAS as a graduation requirement.”
“Deval Patrick has been clear in his support of MCAS as a graduation requirement,” she wrote. “He has also been sincere about the fact that improving our public education system will be one of his top priorities.”
Seriously, what’s unclear about Patrick’s position? What am I missing? Anyone want to let us in on the secret?
I couldn’t believe his comments when I read them, especially coming the weekend before the election. Has he followed the campaign or watched any of the debates at all?
Patrick has made his position perfectly clear.
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Maybe Tom was just having a bad day…I don’t get it.
I know that the Patrick supporters will disagree with me on this, but I can tell you as an objective, undecided independent, he hasn’t been as clear on his MCAS position as you believe. I know where he stands on it after spending some time looking into it, but for some reason it hasn’t been a clear and consistent message in his speeches and during debates.
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I’m honestly not sure why. It might be a result of the way he speaks — again, you won’t like this, but in all candor he is often a bit too rambling, erudite and ambiguous when he speaks — or it might be the position he espouses that it needs to be improved, yet doesn’t get into details. I know that’s his style (broadly brushed ideas, details to be worked out later) and that’s fine, but you should be aware from the point of view of an as-yet-to-decide voter he does come across as vague on this and most issues.
I think I speak for quite a number of us when I say thank you, because your opinion counts much more than does the opinions of people like myself who have been decided for awhile. This is why I ask my passive follower friends and co-workers about the debates/commercials/etc. It’s you guys we’re still trying to win over, after all…
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Anyway, if you’re still not clear on DP’s stance on MCAS, this great comment by GGW may be of assistance.
I think Deval has been clear all along. The problem has been that a (eh-hem) little bird, or two, have been whispering in our ear that he is against the MCAS. Similar to the same little bird whispering that he will raise taxes, and that he wants to give illegal immigrants free tuition. Repeat it often enough, and we all forget who said it, and accept it as truth.
Is because he was a bit evasive on the subject in the first few debates.
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His positions papers state (as far as I can tell) that his position is that MCAS should be a graduation requirement, but that other measures in addition to the MCAS should be used when judgeing school quality.
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When first asked about MCAS in the debates, though, he answered with something waffly about “measuring the whole child”. I was listening carefully because I have pretty strong feelings about MCAS (which differ from Patrick’s) and I couldn’t figure out what he was saying: is this “whole child” measurement a graduation requirement in addition to or in lieu of MCAS? If in lieu of, when? If in addition to…wtf? is he really proposing additional requirements on top of the controversial ones we already have?
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he cleared things up in later debates, perhaps after getting feedback that people like me were confused. But he continues to talk about the “whole child” thing without being clear where he’s heading with it.
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(Disclaimer: Patrick supporter and volunteer and have read every word of his positions on his web site)
I wonder if someone in the Deval campaign told Birmingham that he won’t be the next Commissioner of Education.
The BoE appoints the Commissioner.
assume it’s the Governor but will stand corrected if different.
but terms are staggered and next governor won’t be able to have a board of his/her choosing for quite some time.
Patrick has clear that he supports the MCAS, however he does not think it she be the “be-all to end all”. Patrick states that the whole child should be taken into consideration. His answer to this is fine with me, All too often we want politicians to be either one way or the other. In other words to tell lies about issues that might clearly good points and bad points. I for one hate the MCAS and decided that it is a good enough reason for me to struggle as a single parent and send my child to private school. The school sytem as is is failing our students and not giving them the necessary resources. Instead of teaching the math they are trying to teach the test.
is that Patrick supports the MCAS and more, which is exactly my position. As the parent of 3 public school children, one of whom is now in college, I remember vividly what public education was like pre-MCAS, and I am impressed by the improvements brought about by ed reform. Of course, our public schools should be trying to do more than just MCAS-related work, and my 2 kids still in public school do much more than that, but hopefully the days where we let kids graduate from high school without minimal basic skills are long gone.
AS to what school system your children are being educated. Minimum basic skills are one one thing, but summing up a child’s whole life on one test is a bit unfair. Standardized testing DOES have a place in our school system. When used appropriately, it can help identify a student’s strengths and weaknesses. What if as an adult, your life was based on say one inability rather than your whole self ? That would be awful and there would be a lot of folks left behind. I for one only graduated from school in the early 90’s and I have to say that I don’t see the improvement in the public schools. What I see is more truancy and drop-outs. I see the pressure that teachers are forced to put on children because of the MCAS. Education reform is one thing, but let’s make sure our children have the resources they need to succeed.
Some people just let their egos be their guide. Maybe Tom just felt ignored and was feeling sorry that he was not running for Governor.
He helped head off Robert Reich’s grassroots campaign for Governor by making deals with Shannon O’Brien’s supporters at the State Democratic Convention. Reich was extremely threatening to both of them, so they combined forces to push him out of the way.
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I think Patrick has the same effect on Birmingham. He’s not sure what role, if any, he and his friends would have in a Patrick administration.
Good question, Charley.
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I’m not claiming to have the explanation, only a possible explanation.
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1. Bear in mind, that Birmingham received the 2002 MTA endorsement in his quest for governor in spite of his position on two things — his support of MCAS and his support of charter public schools. MTA liked him because he ALSO so effectively advocated for the huge new sums poured into K-12 since 1993.
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Because of his close relationship with MTA, he’s a very good “consumer” of nuance on these issues.
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Bear in mind, when MTA pushed him to change his positions, they didn’t suggest he come right and reverse himself openly.
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Instead, they offered him careful poll-tested language: “I support MCAS, but not as a sole graduation requirement. We must educate the whole child.”
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I’m not averse to carefully poll-tested language. For example, I’m pro-choice, so I kind of like the “Let’s make abortion safe, legal, and rare.” Most of us know to read that as “Pro-choice” but trying to be nice to “pro-life.”
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Birmingham, who’d been asked to reverse his own MCAS support by using the “I support MCAS but” language, was seeing some of that in Patrick’s statements. Hence his query.
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2. What has DP said about MCAS?
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The first mention of MCAS on Patrick’s website is:
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and
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Currently, to get a diploma, a kid has to both pass MCAS and of course pass his high school classes. So one could reasonably interpret this as either:
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a. Not only must a kid pass MCAS and his classes, he ALSO must do some other stuff — say, write and defend a research paper, or pass an Advanced Placement test in any subject, or whatever.
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OR
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b. MCAS should remain a requirement, but one that could be bypassed through some DIFFERENT test or procedure.
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3. Here’s another example
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I encourage you to follow the link to the whole interview b/c there’s a good example about his visit to a Roxbury elementary called the Mason.
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Here his point is: Well if we just raise MCAS but don’t do enough to improve school conditions, then….
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And then it’s not clear. I agree with DP’s main point.
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Many inner-city kids in particular don’t have a legitimate opportunity to hit MCAS “Proficiency” (40 points out of 80) b/c their schools are fairly chaotic and it’s hard to pay attention and there’s no accountability if nobody does their homework. So raising MCAS standard by itself may inject a bit of urgency into the schools to improve conditions, but probably not enough to outweigh the downside.
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Yet there’s a yes or no policy question. The Board of Ed approved the higher number. Either we’ll move forward and flunk a lot of kids (perhaps unfairly) or we’ll keep status quo, where MCAS “pass” = scoring 20 out of 80 points.
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So I’m reading his answer as “I do not support raising the MCAS graduation requirement until we see big changes in conditions in schools from Holyoke to Lawrence to Lowell to Brockton, and I’ll do what I can at the state level to make that happen.”
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But I could see someone else arguing “Dude, just take it as face value, his support for MCAS is unequivocal.”
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4. Is it possible that DP’s position has changed a bit during the campaign?
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Yes.
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DP’s early supporters perhaps probably overrepresented a virulently anti-MCAS group. They’ve opposed it since 1993.
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Since 70% of the public supports MCAS, what may have happened is that as DP won over more and more of the electorate, he also came into more contract with parents, superintendents, teachers, business leaders, Barack Obama, etc who believed MCAS type tests are generally a plus.
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5. What can we expect from Governor Patrick and the new Commissioner of Education on MCAS?
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Nothing will be overtly changed, but there are 1000 little things that affect the totality of MCAS and its effect on kids’ education. For example, setting the cut scores. For example, whether to introduce value-add MCAS analysis. For example, how to respond to low-performing schools with no MCAS improvement year after year.
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Since those 1000 little things are decided from the tone set at the top, I think that’s what Birmingham was asking.
First of all, you should make this into its own post.
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Secondly, I’m amazed at how much can be read into Patrick’s comments, which I am indeed inclined to take at face value. I think your way of interpreting it — that there might be some other ways to get out of the MCAS — would surprise a lot of people like me. So I hope that Patrick is not trying to be a little too clever with this.
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The “educate the whole child” line says this to me: However necessary, let’s acknowledge that standardized tests suck. They’re boring. They’re of limited educational value by themselves. Their existence leads to “teaching to the test” which must be mind-bogglingly dull for everyone and of limited value in the real world. There are many cases where they don’t really measure the actual achievement of the kid in question. But it’s the tool that we have, and any high school kid who’s learned anything ought to be able to pass it. But you get better MCAS scores by having better schools, not the other way around.
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Does that sound plausible?
Educating the whole child is most certainly code. Follow the link and select Reports and Publications.
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Teaching to the test, at least in Massachusetts, is teaching to the state curriculum frameworks. So, if its dull, that is no fault of the test. The frameworks were developed with direct input from educators, and they were put in place years before the MCAS. The frameworks are just that — an outlining structure. They provide room for flexibility and creativity.
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Standardized tests are not to blame. They are an excellent tool.
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I’m getting the “code”, assuming that the “whole child” language originated with your cited source.
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But doesn’t Patrick differ with them pretty drastically when they say this?
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Patrick supports a science requirement. Is there more code that I’m missing?
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I don’t know that the fiercest MCAS proponents would argue otherwise.
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2. Do you believe tests suck generally, or just standardized tests?
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Do you believe AP exams suck?
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Do you believe oncology board exams suck?
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3. Let’s keep some perspective. A kid probably takes 15 hours a year of “regular” math unit tests, quizzes, etc. Plus 3 hours of MCAS math test. Doesn’t seem wildly out of line.
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I think probably all of those tests tend towards boring. You’re singling out standardized tests.
I think it’s #3 that people have a problem with. If the MCAS itself is merely 3 hours, no big deal. But with the stakes so high, does the test have a “warping” effect on classroom teaching?
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(BTW, I’m generally pro-MCAS because people whom I respect support it, but I’m clearly not all that well-informed. I’m not asking questions to drive a particular agenda.)
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It does seem to me that we’re slicing Patrick’s language pretty thin, and that the public won’t have much patience for it if it’s his intention to get cute later on. Therefore I find it unlikely that he intends to get cute. YMMV.
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Meanwhile, the schools helping kids make the biggest gains do things the Patriots way – hard work, fundamentals, execution, systematic tutoring. No shortcuts.
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2. A quick note to clarify: Each MCAS varies, but about 3 hours is usually just one part. So depending on the grade, a kid will have a few MCAS.
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Right now a kid’s total school experience is about 13,000 hours during K-12, of which 500 to 1,000 hours is some form of old fashioned tests and quizzes.
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About 60 hours in total lifetime for MCAS (grades 3 to 8, plus grade 10). MCAS is actually an untimed test, so results can vary.
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But it can cost more time, since some schools cancel all the classes on MCAS days (come to think of it, some schools cancel a lot of classes, for assemblies, for “in-service” days, for pep rallies, etc).
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Certainly of interest to those of us not MCAS gurus to follow the parsing of Deval’s position and the test itself. Still inexplicable why a prominent Dem, former Sen. President, party luminary and gubernatorial candidate would coyly say “I just don’t understand his position on ….” without knowing full well that statement IS the equivalent of throwing a stink bomb. If one wants to influence the policy, there will be plenty of time after a victory to do so, so why do anything to try to disrupt that victory? All the speculations are above.
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That said, can any of the MCAS experts explain the DEMONSTRATED benefits of MCAS? Clearly if you set a test as a requirement, and people then align the curriculum and teach to the test, students will do better on the test. But what are the benefits of doing better on the test? Are Mass. graduates doing better in college? Getting better jobs? Are fewer students dropping out?
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I have observed what I think is commonly called a type of “adverse selection”. That is, students whose families have economic options and feel the curriculum is dumbed down by MCAS are selecting out of public schools to avoid their kid being taught to the middle. The unintended (I hope) consequence of greater standardization is to push out those for whom standardization doesn’t work at both ends — those who may fail the test, about whom most of the discussion has focused; and those whose schools are less creative, less individualized, etc., than they might otherwise have been. Has anyone measured this aspect of MCAS? Measured the cost relative to benefits? Measured the loss of creative aspects of the curriculum?
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Many of us are neither at the “thanks goodness for MCAS, I remember the bad old days before it” nor at the “MCAS-haters since 1993. But each side bears the burden of studying the real effects and not just repeating the standard arguments. And of course, saying that MCAS is working because scores are going up on MCAS says nothing: if we made French a graduation requirement, 10 years from now our kids would be relatively more proficient in French than they are today, but it wouldn’t mean be being at that means they are better educated.
A report from 2000
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An article from 2005
According to this DoE report from 2003
Tom Birmingham, like Tom Reilly, can’t stand the idea of someone other than a good ole boy being in the corner office.