1. NEWS
On March 7th, 5,000 Boston parents — 80% of whom are black or Hispanic, mostly low-income — will find out if they won the lottery.
The prize? Winning admission to a charter public school.
There are no entrance exams. No interviews. No scratch off ticket. Just names pulled from a hat.
In Boston, the 5,000 parents are competing for < 1,000 slots. I work at one of those schools.
There is a bit of overlap in the 5,000, but not a ton. So let’s say at least 3,500+ Boston parents who desperately want a public school alternative will walk away frustrated.
2. OPINION
Charter public schools are polarizing on BMG (though not in the 2008 race: Clinton, Edwards, Obama, Richardson, Gore are all pro-charter; so are mayors of Chicago, DC, NYC).
Any BMG claim about charters historically provokes complaints like: these schools have low test scores, these schools have high test scores and therefore must “cream” the good kids, they “siphon” money from traditional public schools.
And there is no question that there are some bad charter schools, and zero perfect ones.
My question today is….
Q: What do you say to “lottery loser” parents?
A: While the idea of letting you choose alternative public schools is nice in theory, you can’t be trusted to choose schools, since you’re unsophisticated. So it’s best you lost.
A: There’s plenty of choice among traditional public schools. So it’s best you lost.
A: Do you understand that these charters take take take? They take taxpayer $ to pay schoolteachers who often (though not always) work longer hours than traditional teachers.
A: Boston Public Schools won a prestigious prize last year. You are crazy to want something else for your kid.
A: Whenever a middle-class parent leaves Boston for suburban schools, that’s okay. If they live in Back Bay but choose a private school: that’s okay. If the Governor’s parents got him out of Chicago on a prep school scholarship, that’s okay.
However, if you send your academically-struggling kid to a nearby charter public school, that is not okay. You “hurt all the other kids.” So it’s best you lost.
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So, by your estimate, only 500 of the 5000 applicants were redundant? To put another way, only 1 in 9 kids apply to more than one school (and to exactly two)?
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I doubt it. I’d bet that, in fact, most kids apply to two or more schools. Without seeing the data, I’d bet that there were a total of 3,000 kids submitting a total of 5,000 applicants. That means that parents of about about 2,000 kids will be sending their kids to public school. They aren’t necessarily “desperate” although they are likely frustrated that their kid didn’t win the lottery. Obviously they were interested in sending their child to a charter school for whatever reason, and obviously regardless of anyone’s opinion on educational policy, there aren’t enough charter slots for the demand.
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But, your math is dubious, and your “desperate” claim is just plain made up. Some are certainly desperate. Others certainly aren’t.
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Just the fax, ma’am. Just the fax.
In my post I wrote “Let’s say” — ie, I made an estimate, as did you.
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Let me see if I can persaude you to revise your “overlap” estimate downward. I don’t have any data beyond what I shared, but 2 ideas…neither of which is in any way “proof”, only mildly “suggestive.”
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1. Let’s look at it by school type. The 14 charter schools are really 5 different “portals of entry” — Grade K, 1, 5, 6, 9. So many of those parents can, at most, apply for 3 or 4 charter schools, not 14. Fair?
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There are 4 elementary schools, for example — one each in Dorchester, Roslindale, Brighton, and Downtown. A parent could apply to all 4. Is that likely? Look at the 4 (Neighborhood House, Brooke, Conservatory Lab, and Renaissance) on a Google map. (How do I create a link to a map?)
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You suggested 2/3 of parents are applying for 2 schools (or perhaps half of parents, with some applying for 3 or more). Do you really think that most parents of 5-year-olds near Conservatory Lab are also applying for schools downtown?
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2. Another limiting factor is that a few of these schools are intensely neighborhoody. Excel, for example, is almost all East Boston kids. Codman is Codman Square kids.
I don’t know how many kids enter off of a “portal of entry”. I’d imagine not many for high school, but the K/1 seem more likely, as do the 5/6. Do you have any sense for how many enter on non-portal years?
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You’re right that parents aren’t likely to schlep (or want their kids to schlep) all across town for schools, so generally speaking I’d be surprised to see more than just a few kids applying to all 4 elementary schools. Two, sure depending on where the kid lives, but more than that would seem less likely. The possible exception to that is high school. If the kid and the school are on public transit (bus/T), then I could imagine a high school kid applying to more than 2.
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The neighborly aspect is another factor, but Excel doesn’t stop kids from Eastie from applying to Excel and another school.
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So, I still think you “erred” in your favor, but I would like to more my estimate more in your direction. What I find interesting is that there is no hard data — why hasn’t an organization put all the names together to see just how many total kids are applying, if there are clear correlations between different schools, etc.
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I’d go to 3500 applicants submitting 5000 applicants; but that still means that for every kid who applied to 2 schools, there were 2 kids who only applied to 1 (and none applied to more than 2). That seems like a stretch though.
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Typical school which serves, say, kids in Grades 5 to 8. There are 60 slots for Grade 5. A year later, a couple kids move away, 1 gets expelled, another doesn’t like the school, etc. So maybe 55 of whatever become 6th graders. That school may add 5 kids to keep class sizes at 20 if that happens to be the school’s model.
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2. As for the hard data question — there’s an issue of privacy. FERPA (federal law) puts often crazy limits on what info can be shared.
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Just to give you one example: we wanted to look at the outcomes of our school’s lottery losers. A) We had consent forms from these parents, and B) We didn’t want any individual info, just aggregate data, and C) We had two independent economists, from MIT and BU, willing to be the intermediary.
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But DOE told us that would be a violation of FERPA.
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Overall, you’re right, it’s silly that we don’t have simple numbers here to establish what’s what.
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What do you say to the children who are left behind, those who will now face reduced services because many thousands of dollars follow a single child who who goes to a charter school? A child who, if he remained in the public school, would not have cost the district the price put on his head because he was a marginal expense, not a direct expense?
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Charter schools take advantage of arbitrage — charter schools are compensated for the “average” amount spent per student, but because they are self-selective, the costs of the students they attract is below average. The private companies pocket the difference, and the children left behind get the shaft.
there are no “private companies” operating charter schools in boston
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and
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the funding formula already indexes for the “cost of student” – more for a kid from a low-income family, less for a kid from a middle class family. the Lege discussed indexing by special ed too except then you create an incentive to put a kid INTO special ed, instead of state policy, which is to get a kid OUT of special ed over time.
“What specifically is the problem you have with the public school your child goes to?”
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“What would you like changed?”
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Public schools can be improved, and having administrators, teachers, and parents work together is the avenue to that change.
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It’s unfortunate that so many parents are dissatisfied with their schools. I really wonder though, if there are enough people prepared to start up enough charter schools to meet the demand GGW estimates. It might be possible to decide what changes need to be made in public schools that already exist, and gather resources for those changes.
i think “supply” of school founders and especially of teachers is a big issue if we think about “scale.”
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however, for now, boston is losing people IT ALREADY HAS willing to do it. the founders of 3 of boston’s highest-performing and most popular charter schools – boston collegiate, roxbury prep, and academy of the pacific rim – wanted to open more schools here.
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but there’s a cap on the number of kids who can attend any charter schools in boston.
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since the superintendent of nyc public schools is very friendly to charter schools, and boston has historically been hostile, all 4 guys moved to open schools in new york. it was like losing K-12 versions of pedro and johnny damon.
I am not going to quibble with the numbers, but I think that GWW makes a good point. What do you say to parents whose kids are stuck in an underachieving school, and lost the charter lottery? Personally, I’ve seem good parents with combat fatique; they’re damn tired of having to fight for resources that are taken for granted in Belmont and Winchester. Charter schools are about opting out when you can’t wait for reform any more.
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Asking them “what’s wrong” becomes redundant…how many times have they heard it all before and nothing changes? There is so little oversight and the school committee holds all the cards.
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My own kids never saw the inside of a public school in my city. Given the dysfuction of the school department and school committee (we had a huge teachers’ strike several times) it wasn’t in the best interests of my kids to put them there. Unfortunately for us – there weren’t any charter schools until my kids were older and then – it was too late for make changes. They already had their friends.
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I am a dye in the wool conservative, reading, writing, arithmetic, if you reach middle school learning Spanish and can sing folk songs but can’t read your fucked. Its as simple as that.
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Working on a back to the basics approach to early elementary education will really save us a lot of hassle, of course outside of Cambridge MA the real problem is a money problem and forking the money to allow children the oppurtunities they truly deserve is also a meritous idea. Also teachers who work in inner cities should get double the salaries of those in the suburbs to give them more of an incentive to apply.
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And no I’ve seen the public schools on the front lines, a recent graduate of them myself, and the situation on the ground even when funding is good like it is in Cambridge, isn’t pretty.
Back to Basics instruction often results in students who simply mimic the repetitive procedures their teachers drill them on, and all this emphasis on naked numbers leaves them with an un-resourceful and helpless attitude when faced with a word problem that looks a little different from the ones they’ve practiced.
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This is another example of a popular myth promoted by conservative publications. Someday, I’ll take a couple hours and do a post on it, but I’m commenting now because I don’t want this point to just go on.
teachers would work on concepts, problems, and finding solutions… and parents would do rote work with their children at home.
…One of the things that oftentimes scares people away from math and the sciences is that they don’t get enough experience in the techniques that are used in the math and sciences to feel comfortable with them. When I was a HS student in the mid 1960s the mantra was “practice, practice, practice,” and, in practicing, I became sufficiently comfortable with the techniques that I scored the highest possible on the Advanced Placement math exam at the ripe old age of 17 in 1967.
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A few years ago, when my Administrative Assistant was taking a college algebra course, I would encourage her to do as many problems as she could–so that she would become comfortable with the techniques involved. She did so, and voila! She–at the ripe old age of somewhere in her 40s, aced her college algebra course.
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There is a place for practice. Call it what you will–rote learning, practice, whatever. People do not become comfortable with techniques without practice.
In essence, a back to basics course of study rarely combines different techniques or concepts in a single problem (or problem set), and thus doesn’t do enough build connections in the mind of the student between different ideas–I’m not at all saying practice shouldn’t be emphasized.
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And I got a ‘5’ on the AP Calculus test, too, but it became obvious when I was in college that some of my peers had much deeper understanding of the subject. I’m embarrassed to say that I didn’t understand the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus until I had to teach pre-calc.
…why are not all of Boston’s general academic public schools of the quality that are presumed for charter schools?
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I can understand having “charter schools” (call them what you wish) that emphasize certain curricula, such as science&math, theater, history, the arts, etc.–even trade schools (although in the US “vocational” schools seem to have gone out of favor)–but for some general academic schools to be considered “charter schools” and presumably get special treatment, is ridiculous.
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NB: in Germany, there is a rather significant portion of the school population that does not go to “academic” (college prep) schools–the Gymnasien. They go to schools associated with apprenticeships–they are what are referred to as Lehrlinge. Those students are not held in low regard, far from it. At one point a few years ago, the head of Deutsche Bank had been a Lehrling. And that was not unusual. The schools for apprentices integrated their curricula with the requirements of the companies in which their apprentices were working. I suspect that Northeastern University’s engineering department apprenticeship program (they don’t call it that, but that’s what it really is) is the closest analogy in the US, but that’s at the college level.
few countries, including the US, have few high-quality vocational schools like germany does.
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boston, for example, has one vocational high school, serving about 10% of the population. it’s called madison park. students can take vocational training courses there. there are few true apprenticeships a la northeastern, however, and a sense among some kids that the school is not safe.
edit: few countries, including the US, have MANY high-quality vocational schools
…or is this “charter school” mantra (see above) just a public relations move by the Boston School Department, to get people to believe that these so-called “charter schools” are somehow going to be magic bullets?
And not be diverted by these discussions about charters. The overwhelming majority of kids go to public schools, let’s focus on making them better, through smaller schools, more focused schools etc. There are good charters, mediocre charters and bad charters, and as we increasingly see, they are not a silver bullet.
Respectfullly, Howard, why do the superintendents of new york city and chicago reject your logic?
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What the best supes want MOST is to cultivate is a sense of URGENCY. The perceive their biggest enemy as the view that the status quo isn’t so bad.
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We wouldn’t have pilot schools in Boston if not for existence of charters. And the recent dilution of pilot schools happened only after charter school growth in Boston was stopped.
As I have been researching my thesis on ed reform I have found that there are a few characteristics that permiate throughout the systems that are either the best now, or have done the best job in turning a bad system around.
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One of them is urgency. It has to be done now, we can’t just take a wait and see approach, we need to try things out, keep the best and jettison the rest. As one superintendent put it, I’d rather my principals try five things and fail at three than try none and accomplish the same.
Is that, on an individual basis, decisions often make sense for parents, people and families. However, taken as an aggregate, those decisions can be disastrous for society. Take, for example, urban sprawl. There is no doubt that urban sprawl has been disastrous to American Society: there are environmental consequences, job losses, a dissociation of any sense of community and bland, bland, bland shopping, culture and homes. Boston hasn’t even seen the half of it: I go out to the South West, in places like Nevada, and want to puke.
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While I won’t go and say that Charter Schools is akin to Urban Sprawl in its disastrous consequences to society, the thinking goes the same. Individually, it makes sense for those parents to want their kids to go to the school that has 50 gazillion tutors per student. However, if those 50 gazillion tutors were spread out to all public schools, there’s no doubt that the overall effect would be beneficial. What you have now is a few, very lucky kids will get a superior education and get out of the “ghetto,” while everyone else gets stuck behind. It doesn’t help, except for the tiny percent who benefit greatly.
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Furthermore, Charter Schools are a blatant attempt by the Peisers of the world to destroy public schools. For profit companies like the Pioneer Institute have zero – absolutely zero – interest in keeping up a strong public school system. They’re interested in a starving-the-beast approach and would love nothing more than to siphon off the resources of our public educational system (which happens to be the best in the country, in both math and english). For those reasons, and several more, I’m against charter schools.
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I’m also against the demogoguery of this post. Oh, the poor little mothers with their poor little children! Think about the children! Give me a frakking break! (/pauses at the BSG allusion and mourns the loss of Starbuck /end pause)
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If people really cared about the children, we’d adaquately fund our public school system and create the services necessary to even out the playing field: longer hours for enrichment and extra help, a place for kids to actually do their homework with teachers to help, so they aren’t left to their own devices at home… and the ability to have fun persuing arts, sports and other societal benefits we could make available during afterschool hours. Let’s ditch charter schools, especially of the for-profit variety (which is the bulk of them, at least as of a few years ago when I was more in tune with this issue as a committee member who actually had a say in whether or not particular schools should be closed down). Instead, let’s reinvest in our public education system – and employ more pilot schools as testing grounds to find new methods to improve education in Massachusetts across the board and especially for kids who need it the most.
My urban sprawl metaphor doesn’t make sense becuase I forgot the most important part.
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While urban sprawl has had disastrous consequences for America, on an individual basis it often makes sense. Families are able to move within commuting range of a city and thus can have a bigger yard, house, better schools etc. etc. etc. However, because so many people choose that route, the consequences on the aggregate have been disastrous. Many cities have lost the bulk of their wealthier families, thereby eliminating a huge portion of their tax base – and those who have stayed often go to private schools, robbing public schools of their best students (and I maintain to this day that if a class has a large amount of good students, everyone else benefits too – be it a competitive drive or just getting help from a friend).
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In Boston, 0 out of 14 charters are for-profit. Statewide, 2 out of 59 charters are for-profit.
Because it’s a very different statistic used than when I was at the Student Advisory Council to the Board of Education, which was only 5 years ago. Granted, a lot can change in 5 years, which is why I’ve continually maintained that some of my knowledge on this issue is outdated, but it doesn’t change any of the other facts – such as the Pioneer Institute’s influence over the State Board of Education, etc.
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I also maintain that pilot schools make so much more sense than charters.
Ryan, you imply we don’t adequately fund public schools. Please tell us what adequate funding would be.
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The Governor’s FY08 education line item is over $5.1b.
Cities & Towns contribute another $4.5b.
The federal government kicks in around another $500m.
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That’s 10 billion dollars or $10,000 per student. That’s more than the annual tutition at many parochial schools. Factor in additional costs for pensions and health benefits for retirees and you’re probably approaching the tuition of many private schools.
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Please tell me, how much more is required for “adequate” spending for the 2007-08 school year? What should be the annual increase in spending from there on out?
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Although, many of the things I suggest I don’t think would add tremendously to the budget. For example, after school programs tend to be reasonably priced. We could afford to expand upon them, offering both enrichment programs as well as extra help for those who need it (and even those wh don’t). I say it’s better to get students to do their homework in school, where they could get help (be it from friends, teachers/tutors, library, etc.) than be left to their own devices.
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Remember, while Massachusetts has the best educational system in the country, we still lag behind many other industrialized countries.
Q: What do you say to “lottery loser” parents?
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I’m sorry that you “lost” this opportunity to go to a public school that is called a “charter” but I hope you’ll understand that we have already implemented many of the reforms you may be seeking in “regular” district schools and in our City’s elite “exam schools.”
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You should know that “charter” schools have few remaining advantages over district public schools as we continue to rapidly implement new reforms (such as smaller high schools, schools that focus on the arts or other specific concentrations, etc).
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Analysis of enrollments in Boston charter schools shows that only a little more than half the students in Boston charter schools qualify for meal subsidies — compared to nearly three-quarters of Boston district students. Only about one in ten students in Boston charter schools have disabilities — compared with nearly one in five students in district schools. Very few students in Boston charter schools are English language learners — compared with nearly one out of four students enrolled in district schools.
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Despite this significant apparent advantage earned by “cherry picking” higher-income and lower-need students like this, several of charter schools are failing to thrive (the Uphams Corner Charter School and Boston Renaissance Charter School are just two examples of poorly performing schools). You can also see, I suspect, that there are disadvantages to educating your child in the charter school’s less-diverse environment? Surely you can understand that we could call every public school a “charter” school without ever making any difference in overall school quality? Simply replacing our unionized teachers (and the requirements of their negotiated contract) with non-union teachers will not bring us the quality public schools we all need and deserve.
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I hope you will take advantage of Boston’s school choice program which allows you to apply to a wide range of different public schools. I’m confident that you will find a public school that is a good fit for your child and that with your help they will receive a quality free education.
Out in western MA, charters have taken a somewhat different tack than in urban areas.
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Here, the schools that have opened have been largely perceived as “boutique” schools catering to special interests; and where they’ve opened, the drain on enrollment numbers and resources is pretty significant.
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The region is already undergoing declining enrollment; some towns have a hard time justifying keeping their local elementary schools open; some regionals are consolidating. So we’re talking of significant stranding of assets, as you’d see in other industries that deregulate. But here, the assets stranded are public school systems and people who have to choose whether or not it still makes sense to live in a particular town. Would you want to live in a town that can’t keep a public school open and has to bus elementary kids and hour and a half to a regional elementary every day?
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Large part of the problem is the funding formula as compared with traditional school choice (lots more money goes to charters than if a student goes to a different town’s school by public school choice), plus the perception that bureacrats in Boston should not be making these local decisions. Charters should either be approved by local government, or by local/regional ballot, not by DOE bureaucrats, goes this logic.
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loqlib, some charter schools are unionized – the AFT represents a number of teachers in charter schools, claim their blog posts. And in Mass, at least, charters have not been tainted by the for-profit motive as in some other failed experiments, such as Phildelphia (private managements) and Ohio (private charter schools gone wild!)
I work with a gentlemen that hit the real lottery. After placing his son’s name on the Metco selection list at birth several years ago, was chosen last year.
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This year he is attending school in one of the leafy suburbs beginning with “W”.
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He said this increases his daughter’s chances of program admission when school age.
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It is somewhat unfortunate because these parents are engaged and would be an asset to the Boston schools.
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I do not know that much about the Metco program but there is a high satisfaction level and gives the children a good chance at education. My sister teaches in Boston- not a real good scene.
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