I posted the following piece on The Eisenthal Report yesterday. As the story has developed, I’ve felt it even more important to keep up the pressure.
It appears that Don Imus, the reptilian radio personality, will get off with a slap on the hand following his latest remarks.
During a recent broadcast, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women’s basketball team – mostly African-American women – as “nappy-headed hos.” He has since apologized for the comments, made on his April 4 broadcast. CBS radio and MSNBC have also suspended his program for two weeks. (UPDATE: Imus has now lost some sponsors, as well.)
It seems to this observer that Imus is getting off with very light punishment indeed. It is difficult for me as a White man to express or even understand the level of insult that Imus’ remark represented. The best that I can say is that it encapsulizes nearly 400 years of degradation and oppression that African-American women have suffered on this continent.
The United States of America is a wonderfully diverse place. “E Pluribus Unum” – out of many, one – is a statement of the strength of America. The strength of this societal fabric is not limitless, however. We only need to look at places like the former Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland, and Rwanda to see how easily torn that fabric is. We cannot tolerate language from a professional communicator that so demeans a group of citizens as Imus’ remarks did.
Imus deserves much more than a two week suspension – he truly deserves a career death penalty. The only reasons for his career not to end would be if he shows genuine repentance – working to heal the hurt caused by his words – or if by shining the light of scrutiny on Imus’ repellent sentiments, we prevent them from spreading and growing.
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Read the whole thing.
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Well, okay, here’s a bit more.
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The post you linked to is insulting, to say the least. It’s like telling Americans upset with Bush that they should instead be concerned with white collar crime – a problem to be sure, but not the problem at hand. It’s bullshit and a nice way for assholes to dodge responsibility. Nice one, GGW.
Imus isn’t responsible for the origination or more than .0001% of the perpetuation of these words or attitudes. All GGW was doing was pointing out that these words are part of the mainstream language, and now a minefield that white people must hear all the time and sometimes laugh at (Chappelle is hysterical and insightful) but never slip and use themselves or else they’re automatically racists for life. Words do have meaning and I definitely cast judgement on people for using certain words but some of the outrage is a little suspect when we have an entire black media culture that is glorifying these terms and then a few prominent gaffes by white people each year. Why does the latter produce 10x the outrage?
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PS anyone catch the daily show a couple weeks ago about the city councillor who wants the N word banned in NYC? White guy and black guy do a bunch of interviews where the white guy talks and the black guy’s sole role is to pipe in and use the word at certain points because the white guy can’t say it. Perfect comic timing, it was hilarious.
And you would know this how? Imus has (or had) a huge listenership and major corporate sponsorship. As I said below, corporate sponsorship = implicit societal approval (even if it’s just a money gig from the sponsor’s pov).
And I’m not defending him on the merits. But we keep going along with all these terms being prevalent in the discourse and then 3 times a year some sports broadcaster or morning show host or other idiot says something and it’s the standard prescription:
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-Apologize
-Have Al Sharpton yell at you
-Take a week or two off
-Forget about it
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How’d Al Sharpton get that gig? The BMG blogger Francis Holland implied that he was black (I believe?), I nominate him for the ceremonial lecturing instead of Sharpton. If he wants it. Sharpton’s been doing it long enough.
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Anyways, we put Lil Jon on the radio yelling “skeet skeet skeet” 30x a day in heavy rotation and then act SHOCKED like we NEVER SAW IT BEFORE when some fat white dude says similar stuff approximately 3x a year (white dude may vary). I’m just running out of outrage.
I hear this most frequently from people who have never, or very rarely, been the target of hate speech or lived a brown or female or gay life in this racist/mysogenistic/homophobic country. I ask such people to let the people who suffer decide when the outrage is not longer needed. If you’re out of outrage, then you’re out of outrage. So be it. But please don’t get in our way. We have work to do.
Added a little PS below while you were typing that. Probably a bad sentence to close on, I guess what I was saying is that everyone expresses ceremonial outrage when it’s easy and/or they’re obligated to but we see so little work on the actual issues – and the glorification of the language and fantasy of “thug life” in the top-40 rotation and on TV every day gets a free pass. When’s Sharpton gonna take on Lil Jon?
ok i apprecite your p.s. Sharpton actually has taken on the nasty rappers, as has Jackson. But white people generally don’t pay attention to what black people are doing unless it involved them, do they? đŸ˜‰
Outragew is colorblind you moonbat
And mostly agree… I’m being a little contrarian for it’s own sake here.
Imus’s advertisers are pulling out. He may be all done.
That being said, The black community has been letting these vermin AKA “Gangsta Rappers” denigrate women generally and black women specifically too the point
where it is quite startling and far too long. The beautiful people in the black and white communities give these creeps a pass because everyone is getting rich off of someone elses misfortune. Now we see white “entertainers” jumping on the band wagon. Enough already.
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What I find perplexing is the hostility that is generated in the black community toward women. These are the very same women who are essentially the sole caretakers of black men from infancy to whenever. I have no idea what the psychology is, but it isn’t something that should be given any encouragement—by anyone.
nice.
I don’t. But I do find it odd how society objects to Don Imus calling young black women “hos” but when black rappers do it, nobody flinches.
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Why the double standard? We’re not talking about different uses and meaning of the word nigger here — I’m talking about rap songs sung by black men that are incredibly misogynistic, and they get a free pass.
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What’s up with that?
if you think no one is flinching, black people included, you’re really not tuned in.
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how many times must this be said on this blog: just because X does something nasty, it never excuses Y from doing the same. weak reasoning, stomv, you can do much better.
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but i’ll take your weak arguement head on: when any nasty rapper gains the huge audience and major sponsorship (read: institutional stamp of approval) that Imus does, you’ll hear about it. no worries there.
I know the “just because” line… it just seems strange that there appears to be this blatant double standard.
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I am tuned in. I tune in to hip hop stations, in fact. Know what I hear?
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50 Cent was pulled out onto the stage in a chariot drawn by a team of near-naked young women with bits between their teeth and in harness. What’s his audience? Well, he sold 1.14 million copies of an album in four days. That’s just 4 days, and it ignores all of the people who will download his songs from BitTorrent sites, etc. So, clearly 50 Cent has millions of listeners. According to wikipedia, Imus in the Morning has 3.5 million listeners per week.
So, they’re on par. They’ve both got millions of (but probably not much more than ten million) listeners. Now before you comment on sponsorship, 50 Cent is directly involved with Reebok, has his own clothing line with Ecko, is the main character in a Sony Playstation game “50 Cent: Bulletproof”, he worked with Energy Brands, Inc to put out Formula 50 (some new age drink thing), and let’s not forget the 50 Cent condom line (no joke).
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This, of course, is on top of appearing in the Simpsons, in the semi-autobiographical Hollywood movie “Get Rich or Tie Tryin'”, has another movie “Home of the Brave” coming out about the Iraq war, and is slated to star opposite Nicholas Cage in one film and opposite Robert De Niro in another.
So, he’s got Reebok, Sony, Ecko, Energy Brands Inc, MGM Films, Saturn Films, and assorted (white) Hollywood stars. You going to tell me he doesn’t have a huge audience or major sponsorship? Yet I haven’t heard any civil rights era leaders directly call on employers and sponsors of 50 Cent to tear up their contracts.
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Why do you suppose that is?
I think Don Imus is a jerk. I thought he was a jerk when I was growing up and he was on WFAN NY. I think 50 Cent is a jerk too.
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Both men have done good things, have said insightful things, and have given money to charity. Still, I think their bad behavior outshines their good behavior.
It’s just hard for me to take a “you said a terrible thing, so society is going to crucify you for the next 3 to 7 days” phase seriously when it never seems to apply to people other than white men behaving equally badly.
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Furthermore, it’s considered inappropriate to point out the bad behavior of an entire cross section of society unless your name is Bill Cosby. Why is that?
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Race issues are complicated, and involve complex and pain filled histories. I’m not suggesting that I know the answers, or that my behavior would be by-and-large better than Imus or Sharpton or 50 Cent if I had the camera/microphone on me for many hours a day.
is that so many posters here chose to immediately divert the subject from the nasty white guy to nasty black guys. it really makes me wonder. yes, nasty black guys exist, and get away with it just like their white counterparts (who largely do get away with it). but for that to be the knee jerk response to Imus? yeah, it really makes me wonder.
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the double standard you and GGW and others are pointing to deserves a separate diary – it is well worth exploring. but has anyone thought to explore that subject all on it’s own? or only when a white bigot is in the crosshairs? hmmm.
Possible beliefs
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1. Imus comment was fine — haven’t seen anyone say that
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2. Imus comment was degrading — but no punishment is warranted
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3. Imus comment was degrading — but 2 week suspension was reasonable
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4. Imus comment was degrading — and punishment was too light, he should be fired (Mr. Eisenthal’s original post)
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5. All of the above, but take the totality of Imus’ comments over the years — ie, one could argue 4b — this was just the latest outrageous Imus comment, therefore he should be fired not just for this one, but as the “straw the broke the camel’s back.”
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Irrespective of how you feel about #2, or #3, or #4, or #5
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6. There are other reasonable comments which are not a diversion from this thread.
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a. Whitlock asked a broader question, which is whether the totality of these racial comment-accountability-apology-consequence cycle, whether Trent Lott or John Dennis or Don Imus, which recurs frequently, is counterproductive.
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b. Others raise an issue of double-standard.
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Laurel, you try to define any comments that don’t fit into the frame you choose, the #1 to 5 question, as off topic. I think most reasonable people would agree that #6a and 6b fit here.
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Meanwhile you invite dialogue and then question anyone with whom you disagree not on their arguments but on their very legitimacy with “asshole” and “insulting” and “hmmm.”
you almost always write in a more polite style than I do. I try, but am frequently unsucessful, as you like to point out. But politely presented diversionary tactics are still diversionary tactics. And the tactic you used is anything but polite. Remember, you didn’t even preface your post with an opinion about what Imus said, and what it may have meant to those young women who were his targets, and what it may have meant to all young women who get the message from mainline culture. Maybe you assume that we all know that you would think Imus’s comments were rotten? I hope that is the case, but really, you shouldn’t assume that anyone here knows anything about you.
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You could have responded directly to the charge I made in that last post – that no one thinks to raise the alleged double standard issue until it is a white person being criticized. But you chose instead to dig into my writing and debating style. Looks to me that you’re doing what you accuse me of doing. And btw, just because 90% of people posting on this subject agree more with you than me does not mean that you 90% represent “reasonable”. I mean you might, but it could be that 90% of posters here just don’t understand the finer points of racism. An no, that does not mean I’m calling anyone a bigot. It means what I said – lots of people have lots to learn.
and so there’s not much more to say.
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Imus was wrong. He’s a jerk. It’s not the first time. He’s being punished, and as advertisers and guests jump ship, it’s getting worse and worse for him.
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What more are you looking for?
don’t assume that readers know that you agree with the diary if you just jump in with some tangent. we don’t, or at least i don’t know what anyone believes until i see it demonstrated. i’ve been surprised many times to assume someone would be cool on X because they are so progressively cool on Y. and then I’ve been disappointed with reality.
I’d love it if we said, “Look! Both blacks and whites are sexist,” less and focus on the issue at hand, which is Imus’s comments, not 50 Cent’s actions.
Speaking of which. Don Imus is a drug addled, demented fool. Why anyone would listen to him more than fifteen seconds puzzles me. However, you want to put a certifiable racist in the crosshairs: Sen Robert Byrd. The esteemed US Senator representing W. Virginia. Former Exalted Cyclops and Kleagle of the KKK. Besides being an avowed racist Senator Byrd has somewhat recently issued “excitable utterances” re “white (N-word)”. Now there is a human being worthy of scorn.
Yeah, what a trip he is. But he answers only to the people of WV, and they seem in no hurry to remove him from office. Isn’t he going on 50 yrs in office now?
…complain about Italian-American gangster culture, best reprsented by the women-denigrating Sopranos and movies like Goodfellas?
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“Gangsta rappers” are less a problem as they are a symptom or example of the larger problem in masculine culture – this goes beyond simply just black masculine culture.
First what Don Imus said is disgusting, stupid, racist, and in poor taste. But does that make him a racist. My world view was changed in 1998 when I spent a week for work in Pine Bluff Arkansas. This Lowell boy who had friends of every race, creed, and differing view points thought ignorantly that racism was dead, because it was his worldview. Boy does a week in rural Arkansas cure you of that.
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I spent a week at a clients factory helping out with a trial of our product. The local salesrep thought nothing of telling me where I could go eat, so I didn’t have to be around “those people” although he used a much worse epiteth that I can’t even bring myself to say, nor type. So my curiosity got the better of me and I went. To say this place was ramshackle is doing ramshackle places a disservice. I pulled up in the dirt parking lot and looked around and I finally realized that this restauarant was a dillapitated houseboat, decked out in Mama Boucher oppulence(Momma Boucher is Bobby Boucher’s mamma in Waterboy). The only way to get to the houseboat was through a flooded walkway. I think the reason “those people” don’t eat there is because no respectable person should eat there. But I digress, I know that racism is alive and well in America. Racism spewed from both black, and white.
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Back to Imus. Don Imus is not a racist. An idiot perhaps but a racist not. If you judge racism by actions and not words then no rational human being can call the man a racist. He has raised millions of dollars to help all children, regardless of creed, or color through the Tommorrow’s children fund. He took a leadership role in helping raise money for the Intrepid fallen hero fund. He has had many African American musicians, sports figures, and politicians on his program.
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Again what he did was stupid. I also give credit to the Rutgers Basketball team who is going to meet with him, away from the spotlight to talk about who he is, and what he said, and who they are. It is a very good conversation to have.
I’ve heard a lot of the defense of Don Imus as a “good person” who said an insensitive thing. I’m not buying it. Even though he does some good works with his camp, he has a long history of racist, sexist, homophobic, and antisemitic remarks. Those remarks paid for the ranch. The latest comments weren’t a mistake or a slip; rather, they were part of a a deliberate pattern of making nasty remarks for personal financial gain and ego satisfaction.
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Aristotle said that “Men acquire a particular quality by constantly acting a particular way. . . You become just by performing just actions, temperate by performing temperate actions, brave by performing brave actions. . .” If someone spews bigotry repeatedly, they become a bigot, even if in some other part of his life he does good works.
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For me, the end of Don Imus’ employment by CBS and MSNBC ought to be a given. He’s certainly not the only bigot on the airwaves, but his bigotry has been intolerable to me for a long time.
There are definitely people who are more racist than Imus, but racism is reflected in your words, not just your actions. Having African-Americans on your program doesn’t make you not a racist (Fox, for instance, has racist African-Americans on their programs all the time. See Color of Change’s video on Fox here.) You said that “what he did was stupid.” It’s true: racism is stupid.
or it would not even occur to him to say the things that he did. It is just that simple.
…Paul Begala called being fired a death penalty for Imus’ career,
and I think, it is like the death penalty except…
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Imus gets to live, and live on in the mansion he already owns with the millions of dollars he’s already made.
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I just can’t feel sorry for the guy.
Be honest about it, it is a show where racist, sexist, old men (who may or may not be popping the viagra) will feel very comfortable, have all their prejudices reinforced, and hear men like themselves lauded and praised. Where they can share a few yuchs in the morning. If we could just create a special network for these kinds of shows, where limbaugh and, perhaps, severin, could play all day. Then maybe the airwaves would be freed up a bit for other types of shows, with a variety of opinions. There is just way too much of this garbage on the radio.
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I was very inspired by the Rutgers team and coach speaking out yesterday. Good for them. Perhaps the young people in this country will start to catch on to the fact that many in the older generation, do not have their best interests at heart, are selfish and unhelpful and are in fact hurting future generations. (For example, the college loan scandal that is just coming to light–why would baby boomers want to hurt college students obtain financing for college, and undermine the system in the process??)
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It is time for the twenty-somethings to wake up–as painful as that might be. I have great faith in this younger generation. I see so many who are serious and hardworking, sincere and good people.
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It’s time to help Mr. Imus and his ilk find their rocking chairs.
Out of the mouths of babes!
I wanted to draw attention to another side to this story that is not being paid attention to and that is older, wealthy people dumping on young up-and-comers, in this case student-athletes. Do you think there is some jealousy or something, in addition to the racism and sexism, behind Imus’ remarks?
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By the way, I was glad to hear a few minutes ago that MSNBC is dropping the Imus simulcast.
…and I think his comments were disgusting.
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That being said, you can turn on talk tadio almost any day and hear the likes of Howie Carr, Don Imus, Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and their ilk saying horrible, disgusting things at virtually any time.
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As much as I hate what they are saying, I believe that they have a right to say it. Freedom of speech trumps all, at least in my book.
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So, as much as I can’t stand what Imus said, I don’t think he should be fired for saying it. And I always have, and will continue to exercise, the option of not listening to him.
Last fall, I heard at least Limbaugh refer to one of the cradles of liberty as “Filthydelphia,” presumably because they had voted a little too Democratic.
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He referred to women that speak out on issues of concern to them as “Gal-Queda.” They had previously been commonly known as “Femi-Nazis.”
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I don’t think it’s particularly polite to trade on racial stereotypes like “nappy headed hoes.” And I don’t think it’s right to compare women standing up for themselves to groups that kill those who don’t agree with them (a bit ironic or hypocritical, perhaps).
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But I believe in free speech. And while offensive, I don’t think Imus’ comments (or Limbaugh’s) violate the established standards for free speech.
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But free speech also allows people to pressure Imus’ bosses to fire him.
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I don’t completely dismiss the harm that comments like Imus’ can have. But having listened to the show somewhat regularly in the past, I think he is more guilty of having an impolite sense of humor than being a malicious racist.
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And since he has apologized and indicated a desire to do some good in the future that will outweigh the damage of his comments, I think this should be used as an opportunity to use him for that purpose.
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Unfortunately, I think there are more people interested in the fight and destroying Imus than working toward positive outcomes.
sure, hire him yourself if you want to and let him stand on a soapbox and rant his bigoted ass off. but he should not be broadcasting bigoted crap across all our airwaves. the FCC gets upset over the split second show of a tit, but ridicule a whole population of women? hey, no problem! nigger hos, slick assed kikes, honkey bitches, it’s all good, right?
I think most people were upset that a man violently ripped a womans shirt off during halftime and exposed her “tit”
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Stop using this analogy – it was wrong and the FCC was right
….you are overstating the Constitution’s freedom of speech grant that we all benefit from by quite a bit.
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Here is the first Amendment (emphasis mine):
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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Now there is a substantial amount of jurisprudence related to these provisions but they all pretty much support the basic supposition that the Govt. (federal, state, municipal etc) shall not interfere with or prohibit the right to free speech. There is some gray area where quasi-governmental influences may be at play, but generally speaking the right to free speech does not extend beyond the governmental sphere. Mr. Imus has a right to say whatever he likes free from governmental restaint or punishement (obscenity on regulated airwaves being a notable exception) but no right whatsoever to be free from the consequences that his speech may engender in the social world and/or in the free market. Don Imus can be fired for saying racist things on the job (just as you or I could be) and the right to free speech is not in the least offended, even if he is considered a member of the press (a bit of a stretch by my standard) as long as it is not a result of action by the government.
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…but I will remind you that the FCC’s licensure of broadcasting spectrum is, in and of itself, a violation of the 1st amendment.
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AND, since the 1st amendment was ratified after the ratification of the US Constitution, it takes precidence over any “interstate commerce” argument that one might pose.
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Let’s cut to the chase, Anthony. The FCC’s licensing program is a limitation, similar to any limitation that the federal goverment might impose on, say, sale of news print. Regarding new print: government says, number 1 gets so much, number 2 gets a little less and number 3 gets nothing. Number 1 gets to publish something, number 2, well not so much, number 3, well nothing. First amendment violation? As far as I’m concerned, yes.
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Let’s analogize this to broadcasting. The FCC has established a set of frequency and power allocations that has basically said, a couple of companies can broadcast in a market at such-and-such a power (my number 1 and number 2), and nobody else can (my number 3). That is an obvious violation of the 1st amendment.
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And since the 1st was ratified after the ratification of the rump Constitution, it takes precidence.
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Since this regarding the 1st Amendment is merely a point of business, it will never be taken up by the federal courts. For obvious reasons. The business of america is business.
“It is difficult for me as a White man to express or even understand the level of insult that Imus’ remark represented. The best that I can say is that it encapsulizes nearly 400 years of degradation and oppression that African-American women have suffered on this continent.”
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If you as a White man cannot even make the bland remark that Imus was an insensitive ass, without identifying your own race and gender, to claim that your understanding is NECESSARILY limited and might very well be COMPLETELY wrong, and to make a blanket statement about the sordid scope of a long history of oppression — dear Goddess, is this what the Left has wrought?
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No wonder people feel uncomfortable talking about race at all.
worse than an insensitive ass. As others have said, he has a track record of misogynist, racist, and anti-semitic comments that he has broadcast over the public airwaves.
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My saying that I don’t completely understand the depth of hurt wrought by Imus’ comment is both honest and aware. No matter how close I get to individual African-Americans – and I am close to a few – I cannot understand better than they what it is like to be Black in the United States of America.
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Honesty is, I believe, the beginning of productive dialogue.
who actually listens to the minority and lets them set the agenda and write the definitions. I applaud the diarist for not telling black people or women how they (should) feel. good allies listen.
…you describe him as an “asshole” — rather than just disagreeing with him.
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how does that square with your point above?
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someone in the minority sets an agenda and defines the problem, you tell him how to feel — if it’s not how YOU feel.
I suspect that this is how that particular side of the dialogue is scripted, though.
sorry, i don’t understand what you mean.
I mean that political correctness earnestly wishes for “dialogue” about racial tension, but then hands white guys a script, deviation from which risks vituperative denunciation as a bigot.
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The mincing, unnecessary apology in the original post was exactly this sort of script. They guy thought, correctly, that Don Imus is a turd, and said why.
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The PC minefield is so dense that the guy didn’t feel like he could denouce racist crap spewed by another white guy without apologizing for not understanding how deep are the wounds, etc.
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As noted above, it is no wonder that no one ever wants to talk about race.
although, i didn;t read what the diarist wrote to mean what you did. i didn’t take it as an apology at all, merely a truism. i think he’s right. what white person knows what it’s like to live black in this country? none, although some have better insight than others due to their other own minority status or marriage to a black person or just plain being insightful people.
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i had a coworker in CT – a married straight guy – who spent a weeknd in Provincetown with his family. he came back shocked! at all the gay people, and remarked what a weird feeling it was for him to feel on the outside. ding ding ding! we have a winner! this was the first time this guy had even an inkling of what it feel like to not be part of the majority. i think he’s probably pretty representative. i think diarist David was acknowledging that he is aware that this is the way things are here.
We’re probably making more of this than warranted. Certain aspects of the PC movement make my contrarian teeth grind– even more than the word “frame”— which may be vestige of the particular time during which I was in college (when multiculturalism and “celebrating our differences” were very much in vogue). This is what prompted my comment.
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Even if the statement was a truism, what relevance did this have to the overall point, which was that Don Imus is and has long been a [bleep] and ought to be retired to his ranch? After re-reading it, it still seems to me like the poster felt sheepish about expressing that particular opinion, as if it somehow exacerbated the original injury to the victim if someone other than the victim expressed outrage.
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That said, I appreciate your point, and will attempt to bear it in mind next time I feel the urge to provide unwelcome advice to ____________-rights activists, in which __________ is something that I am not.
it’s when “take my advice or you’re on your own” is the imperitive laid down that there is a problem.
My original statement was neither mincing nor apologetic nor particularly concerned with political correctness. It was rather a humble and honest statement that I do not fully understand the depths of the insult felt by Black women when Don Imus referred to “nappy headed hos.” I said this as someone who is married to an African-American woman. I do know that the insult runs very deep – much deeper than most White people might suspect. It behooves us all to approach such issues with humility and honesty.
…it was only an matter of time the Imus imploded and you are right to call him on the table. But you seem to selectively enforce rules of “racist speech”. Will you comdem the artist of this work (which won and Oscar)
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You know it’s hard out here for a pimp (you ain’t knowin)
When he tryin to get this money for the rent (you ain’t knowin)
For the Cadillacs and gas money spent (you ain’t knowin)
Because a whole lot of bitches talkin shit (you ain’t knowin)
Will have a whole lot of bitches talkin shit (you ain’t knowin)
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later on it goes like this…
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Man it seems like I’m duckin dodgin bullets everyday
Niggaz hatin on me cause I got, hoes on the tray
But I gotta stay paid, gotta stay above water
Couldn’t keep up with my hoes, that’s when shit got harder
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We you equally condemn this?
But let’s see if I can humbly point out the disconnect.
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As white people, if we truly can never fully understand the depths of insult, then it is likely that the grievous ‘nappy headed ho’ insult or worse will always persist. White people will therefore always be the oppressive majority, and the minority will always be the aggrieved victim of white oppression.
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I reject this idea.
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While I recognize that our experiences and backgrounds can divide us and make understanding difficult, I recognize that the individual is basically good and capable of empathy, respect, and forgiveness. It is not required that we fully understand one another, it is enough to respect one another and ourselves.
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This is the reason why I reject the need to adhere to politically correct rhetoric in the matters of race, gender, sexuality. It is respect that matters, not avoiding offense. Rhetoric unfortunately can not make the road to respect any less arduous.
Speaking of blanket statements–“No wonder people feel uncomfortable talking about race at all.” Who are the people you are referring to?
Surely you don’t believe I was stating an empirical absolute.
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I would ask instead under what circumstances people feel comfortable talking about race.
I think that sallysue was asking which people you were referring to.
I didn’t think I was going out on a limb to say that people tend to avoid talking about race in casual discussions, especially among a diverse group (if I had to clarify the conditions). If I’m wrong, I couldn’t be happier.
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The point of my comment is that it would be a shame if some people avoided discussion of race, outside of approved ‘script’, for fear of recrimination (even if being branded a racist, race-traitor, whatever.)
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Clear?
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My opinions, for whatever they are worth.
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A.) Racism (and sexism and all the other related isms) is not dead in the City of Boston and Massachusetts. This is not to contradict eabo, but there are pockets of racism every bit as bad as the racism he described in AR (and I’ve been there, too) here in MA. Just listen to certain people talk about our governor or about immigrants.
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B.) People will always defend Imus types by asking “Why can Black people use language X, Y, Z, but when a White person says it, it’s racist?” [See: Youtube The Office ‘Diversity Day’] The short and simple answer is: That’s the way it is, get over it (for now). The long answer requires in depth discussion of the history of race, language, and class in America and also the role of art – what is art? how does one define artistic expression? Is the use of such language artistic or gratuitous, etc, etc? This will not be fleshed out here in BMG comments. Imus’s remarks were not in the context of art. And not all rappers/comedians use racist/misogynistic language in an artistic context. However, it is possible to use the language in question in artistic representation. In other words, just because you hear these words in rap/comedy, don’t automatically assume that these words are used to degrade race or sex. There is no absolute of right or wrong here. And not to mention, just because a rap star says it and gets away with it, it doesn’t excuse Imus’s behavior.
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C.) On the surface (to me at least) Imus’s comments do not smack of personal hate or vitriol. It seemed to come form a place of personal ignorance and insensitivity and from cultural (meaning old affluent strait white dudes) ignorance and hate. I am betting that men in his peer group have a hard time perceiving femininity as anything other than young or young-ish strait white women with long hair, dressed in groomed in a “classic feminine” manner. To call a black, athletically built, coarse haired, perhaps even tattooed woman `feminine’ would subvert Imus and friend’s traditional idea of femininity. To be sure, Imus is at fault for saying these things and he should be fired. But someone on his show said the Rutgers women were “hardcore hoes” just before he made his remark, seeding the word ho in his brain, and he did not do this out of spite for these specific women. He did this because he is an ignorant, inarticulate, out of touch, old white guy. (Imus has only furthered this out of touch image by trying to defend himself and using the above mentioned Office/Chris Rock defense.)
My point being this: How does what Imus says compare to Limbaugh calling Barack Obama and Halle Berry “Halfrican Americans” and saying that Michael J. Fox was faking Parkinson’s? Not to mention, the horrible, horribly racist/sexist/homophobic things that people like Michael Savage and Glenn Beck say. These hate radio personalities focus their virulence and vitriol with highly purposed hate. They would say something as hateful as what Imus said on purpose and feel no remorse. I believe Imus is remorseful. He is not a beacon of racial sensitivity, but his on-air insensitivity does not approach that of the focused intentional hate of certain right wing hate radio shows.
Why is Imus on the brink of loosing his job, but the Limbaugh’s and the Savage’s walk around as “untouchables”?
4/11/07 6:25pm
Can someone please tell me the difference between Imus’ words last week and the lyrics to this Oscar winning song. If people are demanding Imus be fired, should they be condemning these artists just as, if not more strongly?
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A different context.
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Imus is a old white guy making commentary on the radio.
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This song was written as an artistic expression of a fictional character who happened to be a pimp by proffession, and the song was performed by young black man and a young black woman.
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It runs much, much deeper than that, but I am not articulate enough and there isn’t enough space to explain all of the reasons why this is different. You will not find a satisfactory answer on BMG.
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Also, as stated several times above, what rappers say are irrelevant to the Imus situation, just because rappers get away with it doesn’t mean Imus can. If you want to disect gangsta rap ad show how it is bad for society, write it up in a new diary. Laurel said above that many of the people up and arms about Imus feel the same way about rap. A
…all I hear is a very weak justification to split hairs…objectifying black women as whores and praising men who engage in sexual human slavery is wrong no matter whose’s doing it…and lets’ not forget all the folks (black and white) making millions on this.
These songs aren’t written for you. In the movie, the pimps and the whores are in fact the subject of the story, they are not simply objects.
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Are we not to mention pimps and whores in any artistic expression, ignore thier very existence?
What artistic view point was he expressing other than ignorant out of touch old white guy?
an artist is not entitled to broadcast on the public airwaves
THAT IS A BUNCH OF BS – PEOPLE ARE NOT UPSET ABOUT MTV AND RAP OR THEY WOULD BE OFF THE AIR
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RUSSELL SIMMONS IS THE MAIN CULPRIT AND SHOULD BE IN JAIL
Aren’t these guys supposed to be vulgar people you would not introduce to polite company? It sounds like a publicity show. Seems that whenever a “celeb” wants to increase their audience, we get the mainstream media covering this type of “event”.
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Isn’t there a serious problem or two that needs attention? I empathize with the young women that were insulted by this slob, it is much having to listen to the insulting ravings of lunatic or drunk. But, that is all. They are now the same hononable people they were before the incident.
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Let’s see this stuff for what it is and move on to better things.
Because a tired, faded, old shock jock called a bunch of young female, primarily black athletes who had probably never heard of him a foul, unjustified name? Because what Imus, the aforementioned buffoon, said actually impacts the way young, female black people, or young black people or young women, are treated in this country?
Yeah, right.
So firing Imus will improve the treatment of these groups of people? So the guys I ride the train with in the morning who curse Manny Ramirez as a lazy Hispanic (I believe the usual line is “if he couldn’t swing a bat he’d be mowing my lawn”) because he didn’t run out a grounder are going to “get it”? So the glorification of the gangsta mentality that Jesse and Al and Hillary and Kucinich and the Hollywood lefties ignore will all of a sudden disappear because we picketed enough of CBS and MSNBC’s sponsors to get rid of Imus?
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This is beyond imagination. We’ve had what appears to be hours of lip service at the horrors of being denigrated whether your black, jewish, white and gay, muslim, female, female and gay, white and unable to jump, and no one is talking about the impact, other than the impact on their own personhood or the perceived impact felt by the aforementioned subject. Various writers have talked about the double standard in rap lyrics and have been shouted down because they don’t understand that it’s ok to call a black women a whore if your black but not if you’re white. That it’s ok for certain people to demean their own because you don’t understand their “experience”. What the hell is that?!? Talk to me about the impact that those words you are now finding so appalling have on what is really going on in the community.
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So Don Imus calling a young, black female a filthy name is worse than a contemporary doing the same? So a radio personality you never heard of has a greater impact on your life than your little brother or your neighbor who just purchased the new gangsta rap album that explicitly demeans you? When I walk through Uphams Corner I don’t hear Imus’s supposed hate-speech blaring from the car radios. The kid in Dorchester who got shot last week because he was on the wrong side of the street and wearing the wrong color coat did not meet that fate because the Imus culture created such an environment. Go ahead and give them Imus and cleanse your soul because the guy was a bigot and made a lot of money at other people’s expense but don’t kid yourselves about the motivation. This may make a shrill group of headline hunters feel better (and a boat-load of money) but it ain’t going to postively impact the lives of those Rutgers athletes or those who walk in their shoes.
…that anyone pays attention to what Don I’m-an-ass In The Morning has to say.
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I’m certainly not going to defend the guy. I’ve tuned in to FM96.9 a couple of times to listen to him out of curiousity, but he’s not only rude and crude, but also boring*. But the only way to get him off the air is to embarrass his advertisers. That’s how John Avarosis sent “Dr” Laura Shitslinger into a downward spiral–by making it embarrassing for the advertisers to be associated with her. Same with I’m-an-ass In The Morning. Complain all you want to the broadcasters, but your complaints only show that you’re listening to the show, and that’s all that the advertisers want–ears to their commercials.
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*And most of his guests seemed to have been washed up wannabes, like (from a local standpoint) John Kerry and the copyright infringer Doris Kearns Goodwin. Give me a break.
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Going up a bit, to
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tblade @ Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 16:31:58 PM EDT
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Racism (and sexism and all the other related isms) is not dead in the City of Boston and Massachusetts.
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No it isn’t, as the South Boston High School riots in the early 1970s showed. One of my uncles, from South Norfolk VA (all of my relatives were from the South) mentioned to me that they (Northerners) lecture us (Southerners) about racism, but many of them (the Northerners) are just as racist as they claim us (Southerners) to be. It’s pretty much true.
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Another story. When I was hired at a small law firm in Boston in 1979, a black fellow was hired at the same time. We had adjoining offices and we talked a lot. He left the city after about a year or so, in frustration over the racism in the area. The ironic thing is that he mentioned to me, after Arthur Ashe (remember him? the tennis player) lost some tournament to a white guy, “you (meaning white guys like me) won again.” When he first said that to me, I had no idea what he meant. It took me a while to figure out what he meant, but after I did, it brought home to me that the sad fact is that black people can be just as racist as white people.
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I’m-an-ass In The Morning was probably trying to make a rude, crude joke. And now he’s going to pay for it. Good, but so what? What I can’t figure out is why advertisers stick with the drug-addled Rush Lamebrain. Why aren’t they embarrassed by being associated with him, given his record?
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BTW, a nit. It’s “hos” not “hoes.” Hoes is the plural of “hoe,” which is a farm implement. (I’m trying to be tongue in cheek.)