You simply must read this, as uncomfortable as will certainly make you: At some length, Andrew Sullivan compares both the language, theory and practice of torture by both the Nazis and the US today. The term “enhanced interrogation” was, in fact, used by the Gestapo in 1937:
And the practice of those techniques that cause extreme pain and suffering but supposedly no “permanent” disfigurement — stress positions, waterboarding, hypothermia — was indeed common among the Nazis.
Says Sullivan:
Critics will no doubt say I am accusing the Bush administration of being Hitler. I’m not. There is no comparison between the political system in Germany in 1937 and the U.S. in 2007. What I am reporting is a simple empirical fact: the interrogation methods approved and defended by this president are not new. Many have been used in the past. The very phrase used by the president to describe torture-that-isn’t-somehow-torture – “enhanced interrogation techniques” – is a term originally coined by the Nazis. The techniques are indistinguishable. The methods were clearly understood in 1948 as war-crimes. The punishment for them was death.
How low we have fallen.
(HT: TPM)
…it appears that the Nazis were more restrained in their authorization of use of torture in 1937 than the Bush malAdministration today.
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Reference the last sentence of paragraph 3, and recognize that the Bush malAdministration has effectively abolished habeas corpus–and the fact that the US courts have directed that prisoners on the US property in Guantanamo don’t have habeas rights at all.
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And reference the last part of paragraph 4, and recognize that there appears to be no requirement in American “enhanced interrogation” techniques that a physician be present.
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Nice try at saving face, Sullivan.
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But isn’t this whole article a comparison? OUR political system is complicit with torture as was Nazi Germany’s.
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With the right conditions, a common scapegoat (terrorists, Jews, Communists), and plenty of firepower, it’s easy to apply fascist methods in any country!
There is positively no comparison between what the Bush Administration is doing now and the mass murder of millions of Jews, dissidents, communists, gays, and countless others. The political system of 1937 led to that horror, I don’t believe the political system of 2007 is.
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There is a comparison between the two methods of torture — not the entire political system.
…remember that when this child grows up, it may well be common for law enforcement to torture a confession out of him or her. We will have a country that demands citizens seek shelter with strong political tribes for protection.
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The naive will tell us that once the Republicans are out of the Whitehouse things will change. I just don’t see much difference in Senator Clinton, Obama, McCain, Romney, Guiliani to warrant such optimism. Which of those have embraced liberty?
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We have a culture of fascism. We want “Strong Leadership”. Heck, just give me somebody that will obey the laws.
That’s not torture. This is torture, courtesy Al-Qaeda. Being mean to terrorists in Gitmo isn’t torture. Making terrorists wear bras and panties on their heads isn’t torture, is it? (Hat tip Bruce.)
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If you insist on calling our interrogation methods torture, what do you call what Al-Qaeda does (see illustrations)?
Should we try to keep up with the worst people in the world? Do these techniques even do what ghoulish right-wing “opinion leaders” tell us they do?
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Being mean, wearing panties, ha ha ha. You’re deliberately evading the issues brought up in the post.
What is the point? Bush=Hitler? That aggressive interrogation techniques used by the Germans, similar to those used at Gitmo, make us as bad as the Nazis? Absurd.
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In the first place, I don’t define sleep deprivation, waterboarding, interrogation by menstruating females, barking dogs, or having detainees stand on cardboard boxes torture.
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Gouging eyes out, drilling through hands, electrocution, and crushing skulls in a vise … now that’s torture.
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The Nazis did plenty of other things that were much worse than techniques illustrated in this post. Where are the remaining pages in that manual? Maybe there?s a chapter on poison gas, or ovens, or starvation, or forced labor, or lamp shades.
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What is the point? That the global war of terror is made up? That Bush has lied people into war by claiming we were attacked, just as Goering said? That?s absurd, too. If I recall, we were attacked, multiple times, here and abroad, since 1993. And the planning continues — Fort Dix? I guess if you simply do not believe this then the Bush=Hitler equation works for you.
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As for your citation, it?s from the NYTs, a bogus and unreliable source, written by reporters with an agenda and published by a news outlet with one too. It?s obviously a leaked ?study? or else its authors would be known. The piece cites only ?specialists? and ?psychologists? and ?study participants? ? no names, so the article?s credibility is zero.
Blaming the messenger. “They have an AGENDA!” Boo hoo.
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Either it’s true, or it’s not. You’ve provided exactly zero evidence that the story is flawed.
…the US is a signatory to, and has ratified, the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, the text of which is here. That convention defines torture as follows:
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For the purposes of this Convention, the term “torture” means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions. (emphasis added)
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It should be obvious that the Convention, which is a treaty that has been ratified by the federal government, does not limit “torture” to things like “Gouging eyes out, drilling through hands, electrocution, and crushing skulls in a vise…”