I am not up on the latest Provincetown local politics, but, unless there is something I do not know, I doubt that the motive behind Mr. Scott’s illegal ass-kicking was gay related. I mean the gay hating P-Town cop would quickly be discovered and within time gone.
“P-Town Police: Serving (and making $$$ from)the Gay Community Since Before AIDS”
Do you know how many times a day in this country someone gets an illegal beating by law enforcement? Hint, a lot.
It seems arrogant and self-centered for many in the gay community to take the approach that there could be no reason to explain this other than gay bashing. Like they could never be jerks? They are perfect. If you don?t like them you must hate gays.
Are you saying this does not happen at straight parties?
Would you be as angry if you saw this criminal assault occur at a straight party?
A joke tying the Gay community to AIDS. How clever.
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1986 called and wants its punchline back.
“It seems arrogant and self-centered for many in the gay community to take the approach that there could be no reason to explain this other than gay bashing.”
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I have yet to hear anyone say that there could be no other reason to explain the beating. Rather, I hear that people believe it is a fairly likely explanation.
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Here is another poll:
What kind of person resists having all credible possibilities being on the table, creates false arguments to defame those who suspect a certain motive, and resents gay people for considering hate as a motive for the violence used against them?
Me, a critical thinker.
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” Rather, I hear that people believe it is a fairly likely explanation.”
That is more than “having all credible possibilities being on the table”
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it is possible to be aware of many possibilities simultaneously, hold doubts about some of them while favoring others, yet still be open to all of them should the evidence exist. that explains me.
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what explains you? as it looks to me, you also want to be open to possible explanations, which might include:
Yet you also have a pet theory – for example that the cops were just brand x bashers, not necessarily specializing on gays. somehow, having a pet theory on this end of the spectrum makes you, in your mind, a “critical thinker”, whereas me having my pet theory on the other end of the spectrum makes me, in your eyes, biased.
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as long as neither of us insists on our pet theory being the absolute correct one (because we don’t know the full story yet), then were are both equally unbiased and equally critical thinkers. your insistence otherwise actually turns the biased needle towards you.
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n.b. to those who say don’t feed the trolls: i am answering this not for ernie’s sake, but for the sake of other, more silent readers who may be unfamiliar with this subject matter.
that this happened at cookout in july in provincetown. as opposed to other town. This is gay central and has been for over 40 years. Hi occurence of police interaction with police. should be history of anti-gay stuff. So what i am saying is one incident is more consistent with over aggessive cops as opposed to gay bashing.
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Am i reading this wrong?
and that is the point. so for anyone to point fingers at anyone else for having a different pet theory is plain silly, bordering on something less savory.
It was a hate crime against short people.
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How stupid and dangerous it’d be for a cop to find the biggest guy in the bar and kick his ass.
“so for anyone to point fingers at anyone else for having a different pet theory is plain silly, bordering on something less savory.”
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Is there a history with Provincetown Police I don’t know about?
“Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.” I’m ready to castigate these docuhebag cops in the case of a proven hate crime — and the fact that the chief is sitting on relevant information is worrisome — but till then, I’ll refrain from guesswork.
Why can’t the cops in question be assholes AND gay-bashers? In fact, I should think that the fact they are gay bashers also puts them squarely into the “asshole” category. You’re insisting on a distinction without a difference here.
“He didn’t. He hurt himself while getting arrested and decided it was time to hit Megabuxxx.”
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I have no evidence to back up such a claim. However, it would be good to note that I have equal evidence to support the claim that this was or wasn’t gay-bashing.
i’d go a step further and suggest that the cop was in on it from the beginning. why risk getting shot on a daily basis when you can trade it all in for a cut of the millions the dj could be awarded? free ride. like all gummint employees are after, right gary?
I put out the request that we discuss the other motives for this attack, and see how those motives compare as viable alternatives to this being a hate crime. All joking given its credit, do we really have any other motives out there that we can support through the facts? The witness testimony, the irresponsible treatment at the jail cell, the lying, and withholding of the police reports for me spell trouble, and that trouble seems to point in one direction. I’m open to discuss other motives, I just haven’t heard any strongly supported by facts. So far all I have seem is people laughing in their sleeves and saying to the effect of, “Those gays, they think everybody is out to get them.”
John, you yourself haven’t really given much as far as strongly supported facts so much as you’ve provided hearsay. The witness testimony simply stuff you’ve heard, rumor, and nothing has been said under oath. This business with the irresponsible treatment in the jail cell is also hearsay, and the article you linked in another thread didn’t mention anything about such treatment, which causes me to question the veracity of such a statement. You claim he was unable to sustain an injury from the window because he is 5’4”, but the wound on his face appears to be about 4 inches down his face, at 5 feet, coincidentally the height of the sill, which to me could be explained by the police shoving him up against the sill if he was non-compliant with the arrest. Granted the popes are withholding the reports, but I’ve heard this isn’t a very unusual circumstance early in investigations and prosecutions.
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I’m going to say something, and what I say is what I mean and all I mean. John, you can’t treat what you’ve heard as fact until it has been verified as so. Just as the police are not granted infallibility from their status as officers of the law, you can’t simply treat everything else you hear as fact. I’m saying this because you are touting these “witness statements” and this business with the cell mistreatment as irrefutable evidence when it has no standing as so. That’s all I’m saying. Nothing about this gay paranoia or everyone’s out to get you…just draw the line between fact, potential fact, and fiction. Listen to the facts, investigate the potential and ignore the fiction.
and what is not is for the readers to determine for themselves. Once again your comment is more about how wrong I am, and not at all about any other motives that the evidence support, which is what would make this a productive dialog.
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If you want, you can admit that you have no supported alternative motives for this attack. We can then move the conversation back onto how wrong you think I am, but until we actually talk about other motives we have not logically tried to figure out the truth, have we?
Since I would assume “supported” means “the same amount of evidence I have” so…Well my first thought is he resisted arrest. Yes, the cops do get a little rough if you resist arrest. The other motive, and this one may blow you away, is…ready for this…sometimes cops are pricks! Sometimes for what would appear to be no reason whatsoever, they mess up your day. Yes, they are humans just like the rest of us.
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There. 2 Motives, both perfectly logical, both supported by the same amount of evidence as the gay bashing hypothesis. Discuss away.
I can see little that poses as a greater motivation than the ones I pointed out. Spend less time trying to be smarmy, and more time trying to explain why it is that you think these motives are the truth in the matter.
First off, it’s a fact that when this incident occurred, the police were at this residence for the third time that night. Both of us, I’m assuming, know from experience that cops usually aren’t happy to go to a noise call even once, and I’m shocked that this made it to a third call. This changes things, because the following circumstances are now in play:
1. The Cops are really pissed. I have no doubt in my mind this is fact.
2. Since they have been to this residence twice already, I would be inclined to venture a guess that they might feel like simply asking them to cut the noise isn’t going to do anything — they could very well have decided on arresting the cause of the noise, the DJ, before even arriving. I suspect this, because I’ve been to enough louuuud parties in the past couple of years to know that the cops show up either with the intent to be making arrests that night or not.
3. There is a lot of question as to what Barry said over the mic that would have caused to police to charge him with inciting a riot. This is a very important point that needs to be 100% clarified. If his remarks over the mic were insulting to the police, it wouldn’t have mattered if he was gay, straight, white, black or dressed in a clown costume. He was going to be having a bad night.
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I would also like to note that I’ve actually attended a “gay birthday party” before. Why is this relevant? Well one would be incorrect in their assumption that everyone at this particular party was gay, because I know that there was quite a few straight males at the party I attended. Similarly, I wouldn’t expect the police to assume everyone was gay. As stated in a different thread, the DJ isn’t outed on his website and such, so why would the police assume the DJ is gay? (the exception I could understand is if his comments over the mic were done in the characteristically gay flamboyant voice. I’m not saying that as an insult, but merely as a means of identification.)
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Also note: Have you ever heard of anyone who got hurt resisting arrest actually admit it was their fault? It’s Barry’s word against the police. The police gave Barry two more chances than most parties I’ve been to to turn the music down, and to me, that says they are incredibly patient. I wouldn’t so easily dismiss that.
I appreciate the earnest attempt to debate rather than argue. You make some very goods points in what you say, but at the end of your statement you say something I disagree with. You Said:
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“It’s Barry’s word against the police.”
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That’s not true, because there are several people who are well respected community members who have given statements that are in conflict with the police. I only wish I could use their words here, but you know how law suits go.
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You also said that the police gave Barry Scott two chances prior, but it seems clear that the third visit to the home was in fact the first time they had spoken directly to him. The accounts I am hearing lend to the idea that Barry was polite, but frustrated when he made the announcement to end the party.
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My problem with simply chalking this up to pissed off cops is that this is what they do all day long, every day. There were plenty of other people arrested that night, and none of them were exposed to the brutality and continued cruelty Mr. Scott and his partner were exposed to.
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I see where you are coming from, I am just not completely sold on it because of the facts I have brought up. You could be right, I just have my doubts.
Ernie,
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I do not understand why you are so worked up that LGBT people are concerned, and simply asking questions about what happened. It is natural for our community to be nervous, and to demand answers to our questions about this attack because our community has a history of oppression overall, and an ongoing history of police violence and brutality.
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http://www.amnestyus…
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http://www.google.co…
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http://216.239.51.10…
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To answer your question, YES I would be upset if this kind of assault happened at a straight party. Furthermore, even if it happened at a straight party I would still want to know if the assault happened because of the Cop’s perception of the victim’s gender expression/identity or sexual orientation.
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What is arrogant and self centered is the fact that you are making this such a big deal, and you are bashing gay people yourself. You are proving to the bmg community that you do not udnerstand the principles of social justice, or the affects of institutionalized racism, homophobia, and the likes.
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I hope your post is removed for your confusing and offensive AIDS “joke.”
I don’t think that EB3 is all worked up about LBGT people insisting that this was a hate crime. He says that maybe, just maybe, these were a hole cops who would have beaten up anyone they chose to beat up, because they can. I didn’t see an AIDS joke either.
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I hope Mr. Scott and his friend recover and live long healthy and happy lives and that the truth about this ugly incident finally gets an airing. My father used to tell me that there are three sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth. Someday we will know more than we do now.