I love dogs. I always had one as a kid and when my boys were young I got them a dog too. Anyone who would harm a dog is lower than dirt to me.
Michael Vick deserves our derision and our contempt. The outcry against him has been overwhelming causing him to lose many lucrative endorsements. He also faces the prospect of suspension or banishment from the league. He has the highest salary in the NFL and his endorsements rival most top athletes. He had better have saved most of the money he has earned to this point because soon the spigot will go dry.
Meet Leonard Little, a top defensive lineman of the Saint Louis Cardinals. He does not make what Vick makes and his endorsements are negligible. Eight years ago he admitted to having been intoxicated during a crash when another person died. He was convicted of manslaughter. He was suspended for eight games for violating the substance abuse rules of the NFL. Six years later, in 2005, Little was again arrested for drunk driving. He avoided incarceration and sort of skated on the charges. Little is a rising talent in the league and has made some serious money plying his trade. After all, he only killed a person and it was by accident, sort of.
I am sure you have heard of Ray Lewis. Here is a man who in 2000 was charged in a double homicide. He later plead out to lesser charges while two guys in his entourage were acquitted after Lewis cut his deal and testified. In 2002 Lewis signed a new 50 million dollar contract with a 19 million dollar signing bonus. He is the face of the Baltimore Ravens; he was on the cover of Madden 2005.
So if you can kill people and still maintain your career why is there such a stink being made about Vick? He is a despicable person, that much is true, but why the opprobrium here and not with Lewis and Little? I just don’ t get it.
(though there seem to be plenty on BMG) but there some pretty big differences in the cases that you mention. While Little & Ray Lewis were certainly charged with serious crimes, they went through the justice system and received their penalty. They either plead or paid or served.
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Vick hasn’t done any of that yet. I haven’t followed it all that closely but I know that the NFL investigated it a while back, and Vick claimed that it was all a mistake and that he wasn’t involved. The Feds came in as part of another investigation and stumbled into the whole dog fighting/betting business, and apparently some of the folks involved started talking and contradicting Vick. I believe one of them plead guilty today to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges, max time he could serve is 5 years. It’s serious stuff.
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There are other NFL players of recent vintage who are in jail serving time for murder (Caruthers?) and other crimes, so it does happen.
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The other problem for Vick is that NFL has a new commissioner who’s cracking down on any off field activities that could damage the franchise, and so even if Vick manages to stay out of jail, his career could be over.
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Just as an FYI
About 25 years ago a young (& drunk)player for the Bruins named Craig McTavish rear ended a women on RTE 1 in Saugus/Peabody, and killed her. He served one year I believe, was remorseful, and finished a fairly long NHL career including time with Edmonton & Gretzky. He might be coaching now. Drunk driving laws & penalties weren’t as strict back then, but today might be different.
Vick is a bad guy as is his brother Marcus. But a dog is a dog and a person is a person. Little and Lewis were involved in criminal activity that led to the deaths of human beings. I see few pressure groups boycotting them or threatening Nike, Reebock, the NFL and others.
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PETA and their ilk should take notice. Humans are animals too.
Vick hasn’t had his day in court yet, those other guys did, like the result or not.
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Are you arguing that PETA should be protesting against the NFL because Little killed someone while DUI ten years ago?
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Or maybe that “pressure groups” should boycott the NFL and it’s sponsors because some of the players are bad actors?
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I’m not quite following you.
Vick has already lost his endorsements and he is on the verge of being banished from the NFL or at least suspended for a significant period of time. Corporations run from PETA pressure and Vick seems to have lost all presumption of innocence. PETA is so concerned about lab mice but humans don’t seem to count to them or to the public. My point, I guess, is that while we are so outraged at Vick’s violence towards dogs, we are not so vigilant when it comes to violence towards humans.
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Why was not there any pressure brought to bear on the NFL when Lewis was allowed to play after the murders? Why is there no group picketing Little when he suits up for the Rams? Even if Vick is allowed to return PETA will be on his backside forever. There is no PETA for people and society quickly forgets the victims of people like Lewis and Little.
Intent may be an intervening factor?
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People who killed others while drunk, while drunk is horrendous, but they didn’t think “I’m going out and killing someone today.”
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Mr. Vick on the other hand was engaging in a cruel and barbaric activity with full knowledge and intent. The man is a despicable monster.
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Personally I think he should be handed over to the Taliban as a practice dummmy. After the finding of guilty—-of course. I’m quite sure that they could make his last moments quite memorable.They could sell the video to his cohorts that watched the dog fights. Same mentality.
There are plenty of people who have gone to jail for long periods for relatively insignificant offenses, and others who have been punished only lightly, if at all, for what seem to be much more serious offenses. Vick, as a matter of justice, should be judged based on his own actions, not according to some relatively arbitrary selected series of “comparable” criminals. The facts of those other cases may or may not be relevant.
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In this specific instance — speaking only for myself and based only on the alleged offenses in this specific case — I’d be fine if he never played professional football again if he is guilty.
You are absolutely correct regarding the uneven justice that is meted out . Guilt and punishment are determined on a case by case basis, subject to the vagaries of who the judge is, who the prosecutor is, who your attorney is, etc. That happens in the courthouse.
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But why does society at large rise in unison in such righteous indignation to Vick and nary is a whimper heard about three dead PEOPLE? I guess it is just me but I see a huge disconnect here.
… I believe there probably is an imbalance of justice here. But if you want an explanation as to why the whimper on people and the loud shouts on anmials, I do have a thought.
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Most people’s ethical instincts have a “default” position on the relative innocence of an animal that they are 100% innocent. Even when they commit evil acts we think of the animal itself as incapable of evil intentions. This innocence position is further buttressed by the fact that these animals were also not in control of their own lives. Not only was evil done to them, but it was done to them in a state of relative helplessness… not just during the act but during their entire lives.
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We don’t know the relative innocence of the human victims of those crimes and so we don’t instinctively jump to the same conclusion like we do for an animal.
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I’m not saying this is right, I’m just saying I think this is at least part of the psychology of the public’s reaction.
That was pretty good, Mr. Lynne. You put Doctor Phil to shame.
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In the Leonard Little matter the victim was a woman driving through a green light. Her widower and children seem to be the only people upset with Leonard Little.
I think in the Little matter, Grace’s point below is very relevant. Indeed as Grace points out, victimology is just part of the puzzle.
I’m not justifying the discrepancies, either, but I think the idea of intent plays into people’s reactions. Vick didn’t just bet on a dog fight once, but intended for savagery against the dogs to happen over and over again, and he profited from that cruelty. Little and McTavish didn’t intend, strictly speaking, to kill someone. Hold on – I’m not saying they weren’t as responsible as Vick for their actions, I’m just speculating on the psychology of public reaction, like Mr. Lynne.
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I think there’s also a “numb factor” at play – we get so used to hearing about drunk driving (Lindsay Lohan, anyone?) and car accidents that we’re not as outraged as we should be when tragedy strikes. But dog fighting? How novel.
43,000! How many in war in Iraq where folks are shooting live rounds over how many years?
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I am appalled and stunned that Americans simply do not care a whit regarding the annual motor vehicular sacrifice every year.
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Deaths this year in MA are up over 17% so far this year. Who cares? Show of hands? Wouldn’t know it reading the blogs here.
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Imagine the response if 43,000 dies in a nuclear power accident!
paid player in the NFL. For him to be accused of the crimes that he has been, is pretty shocking.
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I don’t disagree that there should be more people upset about Ray Lewis’ actions than Vick’s, but I also don’t fault PETA for that.
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I’m always amazed that more people don’t get upset at the thought of the state incarcerating or executing innocent people, but here we are.
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How about our tax money being spent to line the coffers of Haliburton and the GOP, while we bomb and “rebuild” Iraq in the name of 9/11?
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There’s a disconnect for you.
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We don’t have to love animals less to love people more, do we? I mean, we can condemn people for being cruel to animals and also, simultaneously, condemn people for being cruel to other people.
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Thus, I think the outrage is more productively directed against criminals who get off too lightly for the crimes they commit — whatever they may be — not a claim that Vick might be “getting hosed.”
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Separately, it may be that punishing Vick severely — as he deserves, in my opinion, if guilty — will also lessen overall crime in our society.
Vick is going through the ringer because:
–He is a HUGE star and
–The new commish is cracking down on EVERYONE
–Stories that are unique make the news. Dogfighting is a more unique story than stabbing or drunk driving.
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Little isn’t as well known. But his case did make a lot of news. His name just doesn’t cross over as well to nonsports fans.
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Saying no one protested Lewis or that he’s not scorned by people is ignorant. He gets endorsements and makes money, but it took a while before he recovered from his incident. And he’s still ridiculed and insulted. For the record, I don’t think he was ever accused of killing anyone. I believe he was present when a fight broke out during which one of his buddies stabbed a guy. His crime was not cooperating. A crime and despicable, but not murder by any stretch.
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Like it or not, big names make big news. And because the NFL is cracking down on behavior, guys will be treated more harshly now, even if they do less than Little or Lewis.
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Check in with Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson. They’re getting harsher treatment than either Little or Lewis, but PETA has nothing do with that.
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You’ve clearly got issues with PETA. But they aren’t responsible for Vick’s circumstances.
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And after his legal proceedings and suspension, Vick–like Lewis and Little–will be able to make a living again.
Working strongly against Vick is that this isn’t his first run in. He [and his brother] have been me-first jerks for years, and I do think that plays a role.
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I’m enjoying the schadenfreude, but I do tend to favor the general confusion of the diarist. Why do we seem to be more outraged about this than DWI? Furthermore, I wonder how we’ll feel if Vick is able to get a plea for a lower crime. Will he be on EA Sports 2009, officially banished, or just black listed from products?
Besides the unusual,which makes it interesting to some, there are a few factors, in no particular order of importance…
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There are people out there that love dogs, but don’t care for people that much.
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There’s savage, intentional and repeated cruel behavior for living things here.
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The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
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We’re early on in this one. Judge it against the others in five, ten years. You wouldn’t think people were more outraged about this than Lewis when Lewis was just starting. And like I said above, I don’t think he was ever accused of being responsible for the actual stabbing.
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—
What we find most objectionable in society and how forgiving we are is always an interesting study. But it’s never all or nothing.
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Vick will always be able to make money, just like OJ Simpson, Don King, Scooter Libby and Exxon/Mobil, all of which have done much more serious things than Vick.
I do not know what the longterm implications will be for Vick. I do not think that he is a sure bet to make money in the future. OJ gets his money from pensions that are exempt from attachment by his victims. This seems to be the only source of his money. Vick lives large and must have a huge nut to make and may not find a source of easy money. I think Vick is screwed.
he might still have a career in the NFL. If he gets banned for life by the NFL (hard to imagine IMO), there’s Canada. Endorsements? Not so much.
To a certain extent, OJ has become Cato. He’s living off of the generosity of friends and associates more than his pensions, I’d bet. Whether he’s doing gigs for cash or just living on the house, he’s being taken care of.
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Vick probably does not have those big time connections OJ has because he’s still younger and part of the young edgy crowd. OJ was working that circuit a long time.
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But even with a decent amount of jail time, he’d still be able to land AT LEAST one more contract to play football for good money. Here or in Canada. He’s that good of an athelete and that big a name.
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Future earning potential also includes a book deal and appearances at card shows. If you don’t think people would show up to get his autograph, look a little more into that circuit.
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He’s been a big enough star and would have a top notch agent, who has put enough for him to live a very comfortable life in a very secure place, I’m sure. He won’t live like a king, but he won’t be Leon Spinks, either.
The difference right now is that you’re comparing Vick immediately after his story broke with the others a few years later. It may well be that Vick winds up weathering whatever punishment he receives and maintaining his career as well.
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…and what was he alleged to have done?
Cruella De Vil, Cruella De Vil, if she doesn’t scare you, no evil thing will, to see her is to take the perfect chill. Cruella,Cruella De Vil.
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Well take what she did and square it. There you have it.
google
It might have helped if you had mentioned who Michael Vick is, and what he is alleged to have done. At least the commenter above gave some indication as to what he is alleged to have done.
I don’t think there’s anyone here that doesn’t know the story. It has been a big, big story. So it’s much easier for you to google the name and read one or two stories than for someone to recount the details here.
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Perhaps a link on Vick’s name in the original post might have helped. But like I said, it’s been such a big story here that I think it was fair to assume people knew the basics of the story.