Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

MA Home to Marriage Equity and the Lowest Divorce Rate

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The NY Times reports that Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate in the United States.  The bible belt?  Well, not so much.

Kentucky, Mississippi and Arkansas, for example, voted overwhelmingly for constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage. But they had three of the highest divorce rates in 2003, based on figures from the Census Bureau and the National Center for Health Statistics.

The lowest divorce rates are largely in the blue states: the Northeast and the upper Midwest. And the state with the lowest divorce rate was Massachusetts, home to John Kerry, the Kennedys and same-sex marriage.

It might be better to re-phrase that last sentence; Massachusetts, home to John Kerry, the Kennedys and the sanctity of marriage.

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  2. to those who think they are “protecting” marriage by limiting it to straight couples.

  3. The northeast is historically Catholic, and we have a much harsher cultural taboo on divorce than the prots do.  That’s got to be a contributing factor.

  4. …it is the fact that people in MA marry at older ages than in, for example TX.  The divorce rate in TX is twice MA’s.  Despite the fact that the percentage of people of marrying age in MA who are married is twice that in TX.

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    Something to consider.  I won’t go into the “abstinence before marriage encourages early marriage” bit, because I suspect that few people in the Bible Belt really practices “abstinence before marriage.”  Some have opined that the reason for the lower divorce rate in MA is that, since people marry at older ages, they are more financially secure; it is the financial insecurity that often leads to divorce.

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    On a side note, in some bible-belt states, they have become so concerned about their enormous divorce rate that they have instituted something called “covenant marriage.”  A covenant marriage could only be dissolved by what used to be called “grounds of divorce” (infidelity, domestic violence and a few other things).  It has fallen quite on its face: nobody, except for a few local politicians, have taken advantage of it.  Kind of tells you what the Bible Belt thinks of marriage.

        • that the Catholicism and Judaism, which are far more stringent in regards to divorce, are contributing factors to a lower divorce rate.  Note that raj didn’t say the economical factors were also contributions, but said Catholicism and Judaism were not.  He denied it, straight up.  I never denied what he said.

          • to support your argument? 

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            p.s. i am unaware of any prohibitions against divorce in judaism.  i did not mean to draw such a sad parallel between judaism and catholicism.

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            here’s something for you to chew over:  TX has a high divorce rate, yet it is also a major concentration of catholics.  how do you reconcile the two factoids with your hypothesis?

      • you still haven’t provided any evidence to refute my hypothesis

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        …that you haven’t provided any evidence to support your hypothesis.  I’ve done research, the results of which I don’t have here in Germany and which I am not going to try to replicate from here, that is evidence that more than confirms my assertion.

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        Now, it is up to you to present evidence that supports your assertion.  In other words, to put it bluntly, put up, or shut up.  It isn’t up to me to refute your speculation (which you jokingly refer to as a “hypothesis”).  It is up to you to provide evidence to support your speculation, to even have it considered a working hypothesis.

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        Do a couple of google searches regarding divorce rates among the various states.  The results will confirm what I wrote.

        • here’s a big one

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          I especially like this part:

          Some of the factors that contribute to a high divorce rate in the Bible Belt, relative to Northeastern states are:
          bullet More couples enter their first marriage at a younger age.
          bullet Average household incomes are lower (OK and AR rate 46th and 47th in the U.S.)
          bullet They have a lower percentage of Roman Catholics, a denomination that does not recognize divorce. Anthony Jordan, executive director of  the Southern Baptist Convention in Oklahoma commented: “I applaud the Catholics,” says Jordan. “I don’t think we as Protestant evangelists have done nearly as well preparing people for marriage. And in the name of being loving and accepting, we have not placed the stigma on divorce that we should have.”
          bullet Some factor in conservative Protestantism — which is prevalent in the Bible Belt — may causes a higher level of divorce.

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          An article on boston.com also corroborates,
          saying:

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          Southern states have a lower percentage of Roman Catholics, “a denomination that does not recognize divorce.” Barna’s study showed that 21 percent of Catholics had been divorced, compared with 29 percent of Baptists.

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          The Northeast corridor, with Massachusetts as the hub, does have one of the highest levels of Catholics per state total. And it is also the case that these are among the states most strongly supportive of the Catholic Church’s teaching on social justice issues such as minimum and living wages and universal healthcare.

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          and from my friends on the right who are quite queer  have said:

          Some people, like Bridget Maher, an analyst on marriage and family issues at the conservative Family Research Council, attribute it almost entirely to the religions in the different regions. “The Northeast and Midwest have high populations of Catholics and Lutherans, and they have lower divorce rates than other Christians,” she said.

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          I could go on.  I don’t deny the economic importance, but I think we can agree the concentrations of Catholics is a contributing factor.  I put up.

          • I believe that you are misinterpretting what you quote from there.  The protestant ministers are lauding catholic regions.  But, if you read between the lines (which I doubt that you do), the protestant ministers are acknowledging the fact that the high divorce rate of people in the Bible Belt is primarily due to the facts that they marry at too early an age (why?) and their money problems (again, why?). 

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            Those two things don’t change the statistics.  And they don’t change the fact that “covenant marriage,” which was meant to rein in divorce in the Bible Belt, has been a conspicuous flop in the Bible Belt.  Again, why?

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            BTW, do not lie about what I did or did not write

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            from JoeTS @ Sun Aug 26, 2007 at 01:11:47 AM EDT

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            Note that raj didn’t say the economical factors were also contributions…

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            In point of fact I did.  From raj @ Sun Aug 26, 2007 at 00:03:02 AM EDT

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            Some have opined that the reason for the lower divorce rate in MA is that, since people marry at older ages, they are more financially secure; it is the financial insecurity that often leads to divorce. (emphasis added)

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            I sincerely do not know how to have more succinctly put it.

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            I welcome critiques.  Lies, no.

            • This is not about Massachusetts and Catholicism.  This is about the people of a state who approach marriage in a way that results is the lowest divorce rate in the country.  The article does point to the fact that we marry older and socio-economic reasons for the rate, but the fact of the matter is that we pushed for marriage equity and that’s the point.  The only point.  The people who you can argue hold marriage the most sacred are the ones that made the decision about equity.

            • Note that raj didn’t say the economical factors were also contributions…

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              What I was trying to say was that you didn’t say that economical factors were PART of it, you made it seem like they were the entire cause, whereas I think they are part of it, with religion playing a role, and other factors too, probably.

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              I also fail to see socio-economic implications between the lines in this:

              “I don’t think we as Protestant evangelists have done nearly as well preparing people for marriage. And in the name of being loving and accepting, we have not placed the stigma on divorce that we should have.”

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              What about the other two sources I cited?

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              Raj, I’m putting up, but you’re not shutting or or similarly putting up.  Is your hatred for the Catholic Church so severe that you can’t bring yourself to credit them with any good?

              • What I was trying to say was that you didn’t say that economical factors were PART of it, you made it seem like they were the entire cause

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                would have suggested that my comment

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                Some have opined that the reason for the lower divorce rate in MA…

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                would have indicated that there were an intermelding set of variables that would explain the lower divorce rate in MA as opposed to TX.  Do you want a litany?  Age of first marriage (very important).  Income and/or wealth (very important).  Interfamilial religion (moderately important).  Interfamilial relationships (moderately important).

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                What I won’t go into is whether the hubby or wife (or hubby and hubby) are willing to excuse the things “on the side,” but I’d be willing to bet that the Northerners are more willing to put up with that than people in other parts of the country.  Unless, of course, these little affairs become publicly known.

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                BTW, I seriously do not know what

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                Is your hatred for the Catholic Church so severe that you can’t bring yourself to credit them with any good?

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                is supposed to mean.  My disdain for the RCCi (the hierarchy, the priesthood, let’s put it bluntly, the Pharisees) is based on its political activity.  The laity in the US is a completely different issue, and, no, I do not disdain the laity.  Example: Marian Walsh.  Despite having been targetted by the RCCi in her rather conservative Catholic district around Quincy because of her vote against sending the anti-same sex marriage amendment to the electorate, she explained her vote to her electorate, and she was re-elected in a landslide.  Case closed.  Reason won and the Pharisees lost.

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                No, I don’t have any issue with the laity.  The issue that I do have with are the RCCi Pharisees.  They are nothing more than politicians with sensors.

          • Since you believe that Catholics are the deciding factor and since you can attribute Catholics to marriage equity in the same manor, when are you going to write the Vatican to push for equity in marriage?

        • would be if he could get info on divorce rates per religious groups.  It could be that the Catholics are bringing us down…

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