Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

Ogo vs. EaBo

By

No doubt in response to BMG’s insistent call for him to do so (well, maybe Niki’s call had something to do with it too), Republican MA-05 candidate Jim Ogonowski has called upon House minority leader John Boehner (R-wherever) to apologize for his wretched “small price” comment.

Here’s Matt Viser’s report:

Republican congressional candidate Jim Ogonowski today unleashed rare criticism on fellow Republican John Boehner, saying the House minority leader should apologize for a comment he made recently in a CNN interview….

“Your recent comment … was wrong and you owe an apology to our servicemen and women, their families, and the American people,” Ogonowski said in a letter to Boehner…. “Right is right and wrong is wrong,” Ogonowksi said. “I do not care who says something like that, Republican or Democrat, I’ll call them on the carpet and hold them accountable. We should never let party interfere with doing what is right.”

You’ll recall that EaBoClipper, Ogo’s chief advocate on this site, didn’t see what the big deal was.

You are making a mountain out of a molehill

He [Boehner] did mean it.  He was not saying the sacrifice of our soldiers is a small price. He was saying that the cost of the war in dollars is a small price for a more secure future.  He believes as I do that to cut and run in Iraq without first leaving a stable Iraq would be far more dangerous to America and our interests.

by: EaBoClipper @ Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 21:00:03 PM EDT

I’ll just smile quietly to myself about that.

Now, don’t get me wrong — Ogo’s still completely off the wall on important issues, and his Iraq “policy” is a bad joke.  But he did the right thing on this Boehner business.  Kudos to him for that.

Please share widely!
fb-share-icon
Tweet
0

Comments

  1. From the press release noted in the post: 

    “Niki's plan is a lot like sending Tom Brady on the field alone to take on the entire Colts defense,” said Ogonowski. “Sure he'll make some big plays – he always does. But one guy standing up against 11 is going to get clobbered. It doesn't make sense for the Pats to do it and it doesn't make sense for America either.”

    Wha?

    • I thought that paragraph must have been taken out of context to make it look like a thought lost in the wilderness, alone and confused, with no direction or guiding influence, so I went to the source to look it up… 

       

      Here's the rest:

      “The Bush Administration has made many mistakes and many politicians have politicized the war for their own interests. Let's do it right. Let's learn from the Bush Administration's mistakes and listen to our top military leaders in Iraq, so that we can bring all of our troops home permanently, stabilize Iraq so we don't have to go back, and once and for all, the American people can move forward.”

       

      Equally disjointed.  Does this poor guy's manner of speech remind you of anyone?

       

      “Because the — all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those — changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be — or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled.” –GWB explaining his plan to save Social Security, Tampa, Fla., Feb. 4, 2005

       

  2. this is awesome. 

    <

    p>
    I’m easily amused:

    <

    p>

    John Boehner (R-wherever)

    <

    p>
    The cavalier nonchalance topped with the virtual tossing of the head is a gesture of rare beauty, a confidence casually unfurled. 

    <

    p>
    You are right on, btw. 

    <

    p>
    P.S.  Thanks for the note.  I’m trying to arrange some coverage so I can attend that MIT gig. 

  3. So Ogonowksi openly criticizes the leader of his party, the guy who would basically be his boss, before he even gets elected.

    He sure sounds like the kind of guy who can make friends and influence people.

    • BMG endorses Jamie Eldrige (I also supported Jamie) who campaigned on his willingness to stand up to the leadership of his party but if the republican does it it is a reason not to support him.  No wonder 55% of the registered voters in the 5th are independent.

      • Last two sentences:

        <

        p>

        But he did the right thing on this Boehner business.  Kudos to him for that.

        <

        p>
        In that light, your comment makes no sense at all…

      • I’m not BMG, so claiming that I speak for BMG or vice-versa pretty much negates your criticism and any possible hypocrisy. Sorry for the apparent confusion.

        • I’m only a member of BMG.  Big difference.

          <

          p>
          Kinda like sayin’

          <

          p>
          I’m not the KKK….I’m just a member of the KKK??????

          <

          p>
          Good one Hoyapaul…way to save face.

          • It’s only kinda like sayin’ you’re a member of the KKK if you are kinda dumb.

            <

            p>
            BMG is not a membership organization. Well, except possibly for the editors in the privacy of their homes and law offices, we do not swear to uphold certain principles jointly.

              • I wasn't invited.  I just started posting. 

                What do you find so authoritarian about the “Rules of the Road” that drives you to compare BMG to the KKK?

                 

                 

                Policy

                The purpose of Blue Mass. Group is to develop ideas that will invigorate progressive leadership in Massachusetts and the nation.  Robust debate is an important means to that end.  We welcome bold,  constructive observations.  To us, this means commentary typical of thoughtful discussion between acquaintances who may hold differing views on important issues, but who debate those issues in a respectful manner.  Insults, personal  attacks, rudeness, and blanket unsupported statements reduce the level of discourse, interfere with our basic objective, and are not permitted.

                We expect contributors to adhere to the fair use doctrine, which means at a minimum that all direct quotes must be linked or otherwise identified and that copyrighted works should not be reprinted in their entirety if an excerpt will suffice. A useful discussion about fair use can be found here on Wikipedia.

                 

                 

                 

                • NO you had to sign up, you had to give an email address, and you were then given a password.  THEN you were aloud to post.

                  <

                  p>
                  Sorry no points this round

                  <

                  p>
                  Nice Try

                • What do you find so authoritarian about the “Rules of the Road” that drives you to compare BMG to the KKK?

                   

                   

                • Leaving aside the pointless matter of whether you can classify BMG as such, how does classification as a “member organisation” serve as a premise that all members of a given organisation form an ideological monolith?

                   

                   

                • In my opinion If I see a person who associates them self with the KKK it is reasonable (to me anyway) to consider them a racist.

                  <

                  p>
                  Same with BMG – If I see someone that associates them self with BMG it is reasonable for me to conclude that they are a liberal. 

                  <

                  p>
                  Same with the Chinese Scooter Club
                  http://chinesescoots…

                  <

                  p>
                  People who are apart of this forum/blog in my opinion all enjoy Scooters. 

                • For me it was the hot chicks in those gausy peasant skirts.  rowr.

                  Also, many of the town Democratic committee meetings have free food.  Sometimes there's beer.

                  Do you think Klan meetings have free food?

                  You could draw another liberal / Klan analogy there as well, but I don't think you need my help coming up with any more of those, hmm?

                  I doubt Klan meetings have hot chicks in gausy peasant skirts, though.

                  Do you think there are trolls on the Klan sites comparing them to liberals? 

                   

                    

                • “Do you think there are trolls on the Klan sites comparing them to liberals?”  (0.00 / 0)

                  <

                  p>
                  Why don’t you ask former Exalted Cyclops and Recruiter for the KKK.

                  <

                  p>
                  Senator: Robert C Byrd

                  <

                  p>
                  Political Party: Democrat / West virginia

                  <

                  p>
                  Famous Quote:  “There are white niggers. I’ve seen a lot of white niggers in my time.”

                  <

                  p>
                  http://www.gmu.edu/d…

                • Insults, personal  attacks, rudeness, and blanket unsupported statements reduce the level of discourse, interfere with our basic objective, and are not permitted.

                  <

                  p>
                  Truly, Some Animals are More Equal Than Others.

                • You have my most humble apologies. 

                   

                  My fun-poking is usually lighthearted and neaver meant to offend. 

              • I suspect that you are one of those folks at RMG who feels that Marcus Garvy, eury13, and various other liberals who post both here and there are “invading” RMG’s “turf” — as if this were all a high school game.

          • It’s like a version of the telephone game — I make one snarky comment about a Republican and now, only a few comments later, it’s all about the KKK.

            <

            p>
            Oh well, at least I guess it’s entertaining.

            • …. and not the real issue of the emperor (let’s be clear I am talking about Bush) lacking the proper garments to cover his embarrassment.

          • freshayer wrote that BMG endorsed Eldridge with the justification that he would stand up to the party’s leadership and then attacked a Republican for standing up to his party’s leadership.

            <

            p>
            Hoyapaul made the point that he is not BMG.  The point here was not to distance himself, as you imply with your bizzare KKK example (excellent way to sidetracker discussion, btw).  When Freshayer said that BMG endorsed Eldridge, he meant that “the editors” of BMG endorsed him.

            <

            p>
            I don’t really understand your point.  Because we are members of BMG we have to agree with everything that the editors write?  Hoyapaul can have a different point of view than the editors.  Just because two liberals have different points of view, that doesn’t make them hypocrites.  Sadly the technology for our collective brain that we all dream of fondly is still years away.

      • … to elect any Republican based on trusting that they would ‘stand-up’ to the leadership.  The party will always get its way eventually.  The party simply doesn’t work in a way that tolerates differing opinion (at least not if its spoken too loudly or effectively – he may ‘stand-up’, but not effectively).  A better assumption is that he either won’t or won’t be allowed to.

        <

        p>
        The party has made a business out of the 51% majority.  They let anyone who ‘needs to’ (because of their districts) stand against any particular item as long as they have there 51% (or whatever percentage is necessary at the time). 

        <

        p>
        This is just one of many strategies they have used.  Read about others in Off Center.

        <

        p>

  4. I don’t spend much time at Red Mass Group, but I do wander by every now and then.  I don’t think I have ever seen anyone over there say anything positive about a Democrat — at least, one who is currently alive (EaBo did recently praise Paul Tsongas, who’s been dead for 10 years).  Same goes for HubPolitics and all the rest of them.  I’m glad we’ve taken a different approach here.

    <

    p>
    I’m also struck by the fact that there isn’t a single post over there about casinos, which is practically the only issue anyone else in the state is talking about.  I mean, come on — how can you seriously claim to be a blog that’s remotely about MA politics without at least noting Deval’s casino announcement?  Is it because they think Deval did the right thing, but can’t bear to say so in public?  Sadly, that wouldn’t surprise me.  Some of them talk a good “bipartisan” game over here, but when they’re with their own, the truth comes out, and it’s not pretty.

  5. …southwestern Ohio, somewhere around Cincinnati. 

    <

    p>
    Oddly enough, that’s the same area from which Jean Schmidt is from.  You remember her–the Rep who criticized PA Rep John Murtha saying something to the effect that US Marines didn’t cut&run.  Of course Murtha had been a US Marine, and she hadn’t.

  6. …eabo still thinks it was the right thing to do.

    <

    p>
    But I must say, David, to steal a phrase from a recent New York Times article about Patraeus’s “troop withdrawals”, gloating about proving the Eabo Clipper wrong is like dropping a pencil and taking credit for gravity, lol.

  7. ..that Ogonowski hasn’t the courage to stand up to a shrill, vapid demand from an empty suit opponent, I seriously question whether he has the courage to stand up to the shrill, empty suit, Speaker of the House.

  8. I’m sick of it. Why should Ogonowski feel he needs to repudiate something Boehner said? Why should Hillary Clinton have to repudiate something MoveOn said? (Big irony, given her troubles with the netroots.) Why should anyone have to repudiate anything that he or she didn’t personally utter?

    • so failure to repudiate words/deed of national scope is taken as tacit approval.  if the candidate wants to give tacit approval, they may actually raise the question you just did to soften their silence for those who would be troubled by it – e.g. fence sitters. 

      • That’s how it strikes me, unless there’s a direct connection. For instance, if Al Gore were running for president, I could see him being challenged to repudiate MoveOn, because he’s worked with the organization.

        • the guy led other soldiers.  he should be burning with rage to hear them dealt with so off-handedly.  if he doesn’t repudiate boehner, he can’t legitimately continue to use “military honor” as a campaign angle. 

          • Why should Ogonowski be burning with any more or less rage than any of us? Just because he and Boehner are both Republicans? Please.

            • of which Boehner is at present the leader.  It’s not just that they’re both Republicans.  If some back-bencher had said what Boehner said, it wouldn’t be nearly as big a deal.

    • Find an extreme statement by someone on the other side, then make some moderate on that side defend it or piss off their own organization.  Happens all the time on both sides.

      <

      p>
      The left always grabs kooky things said by Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell– both of whom were/are marginal figures at best– and demand that every other religious person answer for those statements or vigorously denounce them. Likewise moderate Democrats are put in the position of defnding whatever silly propaganda emanates from Michael Moore, or denouncing Michael Moore.

      <

      p>
      Then, when the attacked person sidesteps, you can claim they support whatever the obnoxious thing was.  Kerry Healy loves Dick Cheney!  She supports torture and a nuclear assualt on Iran!

      <

      p>
      The media always feels compelled to one the one hand/on the other hand it, and is thrilled to have a controversy to cover, so it gets oxygen.  Then, a week or so later, Brooke Gladstone will navel-gaze about it and express regret and disappointment.

      <

      p>
      It is stupid, borderline fraudulent, but, alas, effective when it comes to base rallying.

      <

      p>
      Thus endeth my pox on political parties for today.

  9. I’m wondering whether it was okay to call out EaBo in this fashion. Were he posting under his not particularly hidden public role, there wouldn’t be a case, but he doesn’t do that.

    <

    p>
    How do we weigh whether or not to do this?

    • …or he willfully ignores/refuses to engage with many of the facts. He propagates debunked myths and false information. And he is often outside the realm of rational argument.  He has contributed items of value occasionally, but I find all but a few of his comments to not add anything helpful to the dialogue.  Much of what he does here is take up space.

      <

      p>
      I think earnest attempts have been made by many people here to have intelligent dialogues with eabo, but eabo rarely succeeds in being rational and open enough to engage the facts in his analysis. 

      <

      p>
      I don’t know eabo personally so I have no judgement on what type of person he is. But, as one of the ultra-vocal BMG right wingers and a proprietor of the bizarro BMG, the integrity and credibility of his online persona should be tested and scrutinized until a.) the quality of his participation increases, meaning he demonstrates a stronger capacity for honest, reason-based thought that doesn’t propagate debunked fairy tales or b.) most readers give eabo’s comments the consideration they have earned and realize many of his comments are irrelevant at best and dishonest at worst.

      <

      p>
      The words in my comment are harsh and will be read by some as sanctimonious. I accept that others here may have different feelings about eabo’s participation, but I doubt I’m alone. If there is anyone here that wants to give me insight as to why my observations on eabo are incorrect, or perhaps if anyone wants to impugn my credibility and integrity (turnabout is fair play)  I’m willing to listen and respond here. 

Archives