Lord help us all, we're going to have to start listening to John Howard.
This story is being reported in the Guardian and other British papers. Yeserday, it was a proposal but the go-ahead came today.
What do you think of the creation of 'chimeras' – part human, part animal – for research pruposes?
Please share widely!
but remembering some biology, I have a question:
<
p>
If the genetic information is removed from the cow’s egg, then how is the resulting tissue only 99.9% human? Where would the other .1% of genetic material come from?
<
p>
I can put a sandwich in a ziplock bag. That doesn’t mean that my sandwich is made of plastic.
<
p>
From the article:
<
p>
But again, where does the cow genetic material come from?
<
p>
This does have the potential to be troubling, but I’m holding judgment until I know more about it.
It would be the CONTENTS which would be human. I think. I'm with you, not a scientist, but certainly thought it worthy of discussion.
…animal cells do not have cell walls. The cell membrane separates inside from outside in animals. You’ve got to be a plant, fungus, or bacteria to have a cell wall.
<
p>
—>Shane
I have pretty much despised biology since my HS course in 1963-64, but from what my recent reading on the subject there are two sets of DNA: nuclear DNA and mitochondrial DNA. The human DNA would only subplant the nuclear DNA, not the mitochondrial DNA.
<
p>
I have no idea how that might affect the DNA of cattle-based stem cells.
…I find it difficult to refrain from making a joke about W’s “human-animal” hybrid, so I won’t. (I guess I have, though)
<
p>
Actually, what I am more interested in is the fact that Panama is actually engaging in a project to widen the Canal. At a projected cost of about a third of the cost of the Big Dig. Amazing. They have already started blowing up things. And they will have to replace locks and so forth to accommodate bigger vessels.
<
p>
In Boston, all they needed to to was dig a ditch, and they didn’t do that very well.
Nuclear DNA is only part of the whole package of genetic material, but is the only thing replaced in a procedure such as this. That leaves the more-primitive (evolutionarily speaking) mitochndrial DNA, which would still be bovine.
…(see below) from what I have read, biologists have been able to date backward in time to the “ur-mutter,” the origin of the human species. It isn’t the nuclear DNA, it’s the mitochondrial DNA.
<
p>
Fascinating.
<
p>
I suspect, but cannot prove, that much of the mitochondrial DNA also helps associate humans with the other great apes.
…on the subject of mitochondrial DNA, I recommend Bryan Sykes’ “The Seven Daughters of Eve” which is both enlightening and accessible.
<
p>
The chromosomal DNA data is quite sufficient to link the great apes to humans; mitochondrial DNA evidence need not be involved for that.
<
p>
Just for scale:
Human Mitochondrial DNA: 16,300 bases
Human Chromosomal DNA: 3,000,000,000 bases
<
p>
—>Shane
3B bases seems a bit too large. It is my understanding that nuclear DNA codes for proteins, and, when the genome project did their study, they discovered that there were fewer than, say, 50K genes in the genome.
<
p>
I sense that that is far to few, but that was the report a few years ago
Give or take a couple thousand. We used chromosomal data for the human, and if you think 3B is too much, we had to reach 30B before we were considered done (in order to ensure the very low error rate, every base was covered an average of 10 times.)
<
p>
How? A quick video at http://www.dnai.org/… explains how it was done. It’s too bad they didn’t give the dashing young fellow speaking advance notice his 10 stop, 15 minute spiel would be reduced to a Cliff Notes version, or I promise “he” would have said “um” about 90% less.
<
p>
I haven’t explored it completely, but on http://www.genome.gov, in the upper right corner, is a load of genome education resources. Look for the double helix. That’s a fine place for you to find easily-digested genomics info.
<
p>
—>Shane
…I presume that your 3B referred to the number of “pairs” of ACDT (sp?) in the human genome. From what I have read in recent years, the mechanism by which the nuclear genome actually encodes for proteins is remarkably more complex than heretofore believed. Absolutely fascinating.
<
p>
Two observations and a comment.
<
p>
The first observation is that there is a basic cable channel here in Munich called BR-Alpha (It’s Bayrische Rundfunk, followed by the Greek letter “alpha”) They have a remarkable number of science programs, particularly on their biweekly “Spacenight” series–it’s what PBS’s Nova should have been, but isn’t. One of the best explanations of Einstein’s general relativity was on Spacenight. 15 minutes, no commercial interruptions. All of the programs are archived, for easy download, even over the Internet, but they’re all in German.
<
p>
Second observation. The best PBS Nova program that I ever saw was the interview with Richard Feynman. There were two things that were remarkable about that program. The first is that they edited out all of the questions and presented only his answers. The viewer had to infer from the answers what the questions were.
<
p>
The more profound, and considerably more interesting aspect to the interview was his discussion of a nature hike that he (Feynman) was doing with his father. They observed a bird. The father asked Feynman about the bird. Feynman said that he knew the name of the bird. The father responded something to the effect that…so you know the name of the bird. Do you know anything else about the bird…such as how it nests, how it reproduces, where it comes from, where it goes to in winter, what it eats, and on and on and on and on. That was an often overlooked portion of the Feynman interview. Knowing the name of something is not the same as knowing the thing.
<
p>
The comment regards Health Tips From Your Own DNA from your cited genome.gov page. I really do fear that, given the health care financing system in the USofA, health care financiers are going to (a) require) genetic testing, and (b) assess premiums based on the genetic testing. I’ll put it bluntly–where this is going is insurance companies spreading the risk to exactly one individual based on the results of his or her genetic testing. That should be obvious.
—>You’re right that one of the exciting areas of molecular biology is figuring out how the one gene/one protein standard that works so well when looking at bacteria changed to the one gene/multiple product that happens in “higher” animals.
<
p>
—>I feel pretty spoiled as far as scientific programming goes, between the multiple PBS stations, niche stations like National Geographic Channel and Science Channel, and semi-mainstream things like Discover Channel. As so recent favorites, there was a String Theory special that was engaging (although you could tell the host was attempting to channel the spirit of Carl Sagan.)
<
p>
—>Thirdly, I thought there was legislation passed that prevented just the kind of genetic discrimination you were talking about? Or was it just passed by one chamber of Congress, and did not vote in the other?
<
p>
—>Shane
You mean D should have been a G. đŸ˜‰
<
p>
I should have done my homework. But I was working from memory and it’s been over 40 years since my HS bio class.
<
p>
Comment on your first paragraph. I’m again working from memory, but from an article in Sciam, it appears that various segments of DNA can be combined in several ways to code for proteins. According to the article, there are markers in the genome that provide for the various codings.
<
p>
Re your second paragraph, we refuse to pay Comcast for anything but basic cable. Here in Germany, our cable bill is a small fraction of expanded or digital cable in the US (and with far fewer commercials. But, I’ve mentioned how good BR-alpha is (sans commercials) And just last night, there was a National Geographic program on N-TV here in Germany. As far as I’m concerned, the Discovery Channel and its cousin TUV have become a pale shadow of what it might have been.
<
p>
Slight comment on string theory. I’ve followed it a bit, but I doubt that it’s going anywhere. I’ve read Greene’s first book, and except for the first hundred pages, where he describes classical relativity and quantum theory extremely well, was singularly unimpressed with the discussion of string theory. String theorists, as far as I can tell, haven’t even begun to suggest how to acquire evidence to validate their theory. At least with relativity and QM, there was considerable evidence adduced to support the theories. The two theories are fundamentally incompatible, of course, but there is evidence for both of them
<
p>
Re your third point, I have no recollection that legislation was passed to prevent genetic discrimination in health care premiums. Maybe others here know the status of such, but it is a considerable concern.
…so I’ll be brief. The SciAm article was likely speaking about RNA, not DNA, as many differrent RNA transcripts can be expressed from a particular gene in eucaryotes. Other than that, I think you’ve got it.
<
p>
—>As to the legislation, the House passed the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2007 and is waiting Senate action. As there were bills of identical names (excepting date) in 2005 and 2003, I don’t hold great hope for the passing of the 2007 version.
<
p>
TschĂ¼ĂŸ!
my concern with an multi-species mingling is the potential for transfer of an animal disease to humans that previously wasn’t a threat. However, we use porcine heart valves in people, not to mention hormone treatments such as thyroid hormone replacement. Perhaps the disease threat has been dealt with?
Can it grow hair? On your head?
they’ll be bacterial cilia. maybe some people will like the thought of flagellating cilia, who knows!
and my hair will always look like it is waving in the wind.
…facetious of course.
<
p>
Why would an American male want to have hair on his head?
<
p>
Vin Diesel is really quite butch. He doesn’t have a lot of hair on his head.
I would love to shave my head, and frankly, I think it looks great short, but the girlfriend and all my female friends have a whine and cry fest whenever I want to go see the barber.
…get a boyfriend. He probably wouldn’t care.
<
p>
I like the fact that my short hair dries itself between the time that I walk between the shower and the bedroom. No hairblower; no towel. It dries itself.
<
p>
Another possible solution for you and your girl palls if they want long hair: a wig? I’m again being facetious, of course.
<
p>
But, as you age, if you are like many males, the hair will develop into what is referred to as a “comb-over” pattern. The comb-over is really quite comical. That is what Rosie O’Donnell was poking fun at Donald Trump with on The View a few months ago.
But no, I'll not be needing a comb-over. Both my grandfathers are in their mid to late 80s and have full heads of hair still, as does my father at the ripe old age of 55, and his hair still has most of it's color. I got good genes.
you could have been born a female that likes to wear short hair for all the reasons you and raj have mentioned. then not only do the adult gender police confront you on the way into the bathroom, but little indoctrinated children ask their mothers in that adorably loud, honest and direct way they have that embarrasses their mothers terribly: “ARE YOU A BOY? HUH? ARE YOU A BOY?”
<
p>
It is annoying to be challenged by adults, but actually a joy to be questioned by children. I get to see the gears grinding in their young brains: gosh, mom said that boys have short hair and girls have long hair, but that man said he’s a girl but he has short hair but mommy said girls have long hair and i’m a girl and i have long hair and mommy is mommy and right about everything even when i don’t like it….
<
p>
When I answer, assuring the mother who clearly thinks she will be judged harshly for having children who ask questions and demonstrate critical thinking skills in public, that i’m not in the least offended by the question, that I’m a girl, the child always refuses to believe me and states it’s opinion “NO, YOU’RE A BOY!” with that look on their faces like they know a lying adult when they see one, and boy are they disgusted by it all. A few kids who’ve asked me this question away from parental supervision have chosen to argue the point with me, seemingly unable to let the matter lie until i submit to their world view. I find it interesting that even kids will stick like glue to untruths so long as the right authority (parent) primes them with the lie (that sex determines hair length). Some people never grow out of that. They’re commonly referred to as sheeple.
NO, YOU’RE A BOY!
<
p>
…something to the effect that boys are children, like YOU Then you might want to go into a tirade something along the lines of “get the f**k out of my way, brat.”
it reminds me of a college friend who spent his down time while working retail staring at little children until they cried. not the sort of approach i care for. kids have a tiny frame of reference from which they work. it’s not their fault. as i said, i welcome their questions. i’m more of a mind to address the parent: “what kind of gender brainwashing are you torturing your kids with?!”
<
p>
i’ve tried various responses to the kids, including:
“why does it matter?”
“if you don’t believe me why did you ask?”
“didn’t tinkerbell have short hair?”
<
p>
btw it is usually girls that asked me the “are you a…” question. i don’t know why. maybe it’s because they see another girl who doesn;t look quite right in their eyes, and just have to check it out. it would be interesting to know whether they give a rip about long-haired dudes. probably not.
<
p>
i can be more graphic with the obnoxious women who try to challenge my entrance into public bathrooms. usually a reference to my ample bosom is sufficient. i’ve used a “want to strip search me?” on a few more aggressive challengers. works like a charm.
<
p>
<
p>
In our next episode of The Gender Chronicles, we discuss public reaction to female leg hair. Stay tuned! đŸ˜‰
I could look like this.Hair clippers, please.
I also thought of porcine heart valve replacement. I honestly don’t know where the line is or where it should be. Clearly, blending DNA is vastly different from organ intermingling.
<
p>
Would these harvested stem cells be used solely for research or could they eventually be used for gene therapy? Would the incorporation of “hybrid” stem cells into a human body create further complications, ethically or medically?
<
p>
Obviously this is an extremely complex issue, and while I support the need for research into cures for these diseases, none of this should be rushed into lightly. (Nor should it be dismissed outright.)
maybe it is worthwhile to mention that we have two separate discussions going on here. one is the potential intermingling of human and non-human dna. the other is the potential for disease transfer between species. you are right that dna blending and organ mingling are different things. however they do share the same foible in that they both can lead to disease transfer.
…is entirely different than organ transplants.
<
p>
DNA splicing has been going on for years in the agriculture industry (“genetically modified”).
<
p>
One problem with organ transplants is that the transplanted organs can themselve have pathogens in them that can induce disease in the recipient
we already share many genes with cows. any idea whether the 1% is common territory or something uniquely bovine? you might enjoy knowing this
The Bovine Genome Project’s white paper http://www.genome.go… states that cows are even closer to humans that mice are. The 1% you’re talking about will be a combination of truly unique bovine sequence, and unique variations of shared regions. If you’d like the long version, let me know (and give me some time!)
<
p>
—>Shane
…it is not WorldNewsDaily, it is WorldNutDaily
<
p>
I don’t know whether I originated the latter, but I started using it about a decade ago. Others have picked up on it.
WingNutDaily
Two points.
<
p>
One, you may very well be correct about the RNA. I don’t have the article here in Germany and I don’t know enough about biology to opine.
<
p>
Two, I very much hate what I call “right margin indent hell” (RMIH) and so that’s why I do what I just did. Asterisks are your best friends to avoid RMIH.