I’ve been hearing that with the Patrick endorsement, Obama is counting on getting help from Deval’s vaunted army of volunteers, the grassroots organization that supposedly vaulted him from naive-upstart-nowhere to the corner office. The scenario goes that Patrick leverages his volunteers’ loyalty into crossing the border into New Hampshire, helping to create an unbeatable ground presence that neither Hillary nor Edwards can match.
Color me skeptical on that happening in any large scale. Patrick and Obama do have many things in common: I think that both can legitimately be seen as outsiders to the dominant political culture; they’re both terrific speakers, and personally charismatic; and yeah, they’re both black guys from Chicago and Harvard.
But analogies are always flawed. Obama has a different relationship to the grassroots than does Patrick. Patrick was an utterly unique figure in 2005, and early on he took bold stands on issues — health care, Cape Wind*, gay marriage — that distinguished him from the other candidates. Obama certainly has claim to being dead-right in 2002 in opposing the Iraq War — indeed, his predictions were accurate right down the line. But, you know, he was a State Senator from Chicago then, not a US Senator with actual power over these things. And while I’m definitely pleased that he’s following Chris Dodd’s lead in supporting a filibuster against telco/FISA immunity … why does he need to be the one to follow? I mean, I could vote for Chris Dodd, after all.
There is ample opportunity for Obama to distinguish himself from both GOP misrule and Democratic weakness, and he of all people has the persuasive power to clearly outline the principles involved and the rightness of his choices. He of all people should fear nothing. And yet, he’s not been as out front as he would have wished, thus ceding his uniqueness to other candidates — Edwards, Dodd, even Hillary (on health care). It seems like there’s been a pattern of the two senators following sentiment on the left in some of these gestures, rather than actively framing the issues and being out front. (This, of course, is a problem for the Democratic Party writ large.)
To be clear: His 2002 thoughts on the Iraq debacle count, a lot. So do his ambitious and worthy plans for climate change. Among the current contenders, those alone makes him worthy of very serious consideration. But he needs to understand that it’s a crowded field, and give us good reason to think that he and he alone is the guy to restore America’s place in the world. The army will follow when it’s found its general … and we’ve got choices. And in some ways, that’s good.
shiltone says
What you said, Charley. I would expect support from Deval for Obama, but was caught off guard by an actual endorsement at this point in the race. Is it really not an option for him to do one and not the other? And to expect us (Deval’s “Army”) to line up for Obama (or anyone) just because of our past support…it doesn’t fly.
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We did an informal candidate poll at the DTC meeting last night…many of the members had worked hard for Deval; there was a variety of responses, but as for the clear winner, I can’t tell you what her name was, but it wasn’t Barack Obama. đŸ˜‰
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Personally, I like Obama, too, but remain committed to Whoever The Eventual Nominee Is, given that our primary never means anything in the race anyway.
sabutai says
Were Barack clearer on his supporters, he wouldn’t have sent down some people to help Tsongas win the primary.
alexwill says
that was very frustrating to learn after the primary, but to be fair it had more to do with the Tsongas daughter who works for the Obama campaign in Manchester office than the Obama campaign itself: the Obama campaign itself had a rally that weekend in Manchester with Paul Hodes, (announcing his energy policy I think), and were probably more annoyed that the Tsongas camp was pulling people away.
mass-ave says
C’mon, that’s a total non-issue. Like anyone in New Hampshire is going to care what happened in some MA special election to Congress.
mass-ave says
Chris Dodd doesn’t have enough support to win, and he certainly doesn’t have enough money to keep up with the Republicans in the race, so you should think twice before you proclaim him a viable candidate.
sabutai says
“It wasn’t wrong-headedness, it was calculated nepotism” isn’t the best defense I’ve heard, given the last eight years.
steven-leibowitz says
Would going to Detroit to tell automakers that they need to push up average mileage, be another one of those moments?
shiltone says
his stumble on CTL (coal-to-liquids).
lanugo says
Obama is not a positional politician. He doesn’t see simple answers to things and doesn’t like taking hard box-himself-in positions. Where some see black and white he sees grey (hell, he is grey in a matter of speaking). He wants to bring us all together and can see both sides of an argument. And that is his MO – as it was for another gangly inexperienced upstart from Illinois, the man Obama most wants to model his career after – Uncle Abe.
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Now of course the netroots wants folks out front on the issues – taking principled stands, tolerating no compromise. But taking a stand doesn’t mean that anything changes. I’m glad when the Dems take principled positions and fight for them. But that is not the only way to crack an egg — sometimes its downright counter-productive.
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The truly great politicians/leaders find more nuanced ways to get things done – picking their moments, building consensus and taking stands when it can make a difference and not just to win some short-term political plaudits. We should not just vote for the pols that tell us what we want to hear all the time and scream it loudest. That’s easy. We should consider the pols who share our values, but are also willing to challenge us, and who have a chance to actually achieve something beyond mouthing the stock party lines.
melanie says
I brought out people who otherwise would not have voted to both the primary and the general election for Deval, but I don’t care for Obama, and Deval’s endorsement doesn’t change that. I started out thinking I would support him, but he just hasn’t impressed me.
ydsrock says
So several thousand people made the effort to attend the endorsement rally. If even a fraction of those to to New Hampshire, that will augment Obama’s grassroots volunteers.
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In comparison, how many people from Massachusetts do you think will be going to New Hampshire to work for Mitt Romney? I’d be surprised to find 15 Massachusetts residents working for Mitt there who aren’t on his payroll.
hlpeary says
maybe half of that…inflated crowd figures from campaigns are so annoying…
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Barack Obama’s problem is that people come out to see him when he first comes to town…like in many of his appearances in NH thus far…they are curious and want to see someone in person…he is stalled in NH because those same folks don’t come back when he comes the second time.
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I think the same holds true for Deval’s coattails…his supporters will not be automatically transferable to Obama by any stretch of hubris…Morningstar claimed that 45,000 of Deval’s grassroots organization would make the difference for Obama in NH…45,000…imagine that…I do not find that credible…
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Here is the result of a quickie totally unscientific poll of enthusiastic, diehard Deval Patrick delegates who attended a Tsongas fundraiser….Out of 26 asked: Clinton-12, Obama-4, Edwards-2, Richardson-3, Biden-3, Don’t know yet-2
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Out of that group, Deval and Morningstar have a shot at getting 4 people to go over the NH border to save Obama.
mass-ave says
I thought the crowd was pretty big.
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I’ve already been to New Hampshire several times, and from what I can tell, Obama already has a lot of volunteers from the Patrick organization, certainly a lot more than any other candidate in New Hampshire.
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One thing this whole discussion leaves out is the massive number of people who have contributed to Barack and the massive amount of money he has raised from hundreds of thousands of people. That’s his ARMY.
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But, to be honest, I think Iowa is going to matter a lot more than New Hampshire again this year.
geo999 says
Not quite as many I’m sure.
Primarily because they hold down jobs, and/or prefer not to skip classes.
laurel says
by my estimation, most of Myth’s MA supporters are free-range retirees. but many won’t make it up to NH because of health and mobility issues.
bean-in-the-burbs says
yellow-dog says
Aside from rhetoric, Patrick hasn’t been particularly progressive. Grassroots, as far as I can tell, meant setting up his website and going around telling people that it’s their government and exhorting them to get more involved. Has he done anything to empower everyday people? I don’t think so.
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I don’t know anyone kneeling at the altar of Deval these days. He was an exciting candidate, but so far, he’s been a fair, unvisionary governor.
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Mark
melanie says
of Deval, but people I know are not very pleased with him. I dragged a bunch of people out to support him, twice, and now those people are wondering if they should have listened to me. I’ve heard some people suggest maybe he doesn’t have the best set of advisors.
david says
What would you like to see? (Serious question, by the way. I’d like to know, and I’m guessing so would DP’s folks.)
yellow-dog says
by many of his committee appointments. Not that I have much against the people themselves, many are good Democrats, but they are all part of the party machinery. I don’t mean hacks, but they won’t shake anything up. I’ll speak about what I know best: education.
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Henry Thomas III from Springfield. He’s got great credentials, but is kind of conservative on education. Yet he’s on one of the boards. Other people like Paul Reville have similar track records as policy-makers.
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Policy-makers are a funky breed. Often they lack a lot of life experience. They are part of the elite that get where they are because of the circles they travel in and belong to that nebulous world of policy and knowing people. They are the usual suspects. The ones pols call when they want to flesh out a committee at the state level. Them and administrators at colleges and business men.
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What should Patrick do? Bring in new people who aren’t part of the existing elite. We have some pretty well-established educational researchers in the state, for example. One is Andy Hargreaves at BC. (I only know him through his work). Instead we get the same college administrators who don’t know education research.
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Teachers might be invited as well. Not just the guy who gets the Teacher of the Year award. Teachers are a mixed bag in my experience, (I am one, btw), but a progressive governor would work to cycle them and people from all levels into leadership at the very least to breathe fresh air into the process. Instead we get the same old people in power. These folks have expertise, and I don’t think they shouldn’t be part of the leadership or process, but the only diversity on this committee is geographic.
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-President Wheelock College
-Former Superintendent of the Boston and Oklahoma City Public Schools
-Chairman, President, CEO and Chairman of the Board EMC Corporation
-Joint Committee on Education
-President of Mount Wachusett Community College
-Executive Director, Franklin Hampshire Regional Employment Board
-Executive VP and Director of Frontier Capital Management Company
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The Readiness Project: http://www.mass.gov/….
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Am I making sense? I’m not a Bolshevik, but power should at least be distributed beyond the elite that are running. That’s progressivism. That’s what Patrick has failed to do, at least educationally speaking.
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I have to go to a meeting.
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Mark
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laurel says
the main job of governor is probably not to empower people. anything he can do to that end, great. but his sworn priority is elsewhere at the moment.
yellow-dog says
but a progressive would be stop reinvesting governing power in the elite and work on ways to put power in the hands of the people. I think I made my point in my reply to David. Patrick is looking more and more like a traditional liberal, who cares about the disenfranchised, who proposes huge programs to solve their problems rather than evolving them in the process. And in my book, “Town meetings” and listening tours are a parody of democracy, an unconscious subterfuge that makes it look like the people have a say in our democracy when, in fact, power and decision-making, continues to reside in the elite.
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I voted and worked a little for Patrick. He’s ten times better than our non-governing Republican governors, and I will probably vote for him again. But I’m not giving him a free ride. He earned the grassroots of his campaign. He’s yet to earn them as governor as far as I’m concerned.
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Mark
raj says
Aside from rhetoric, Patrick hasn’t been particularly progressive
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…the way that I would put it is that Patrick hasn’t been particularly persuasive.
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There is a huge difference. He has been unable to make the case for his positions. I sincerely don’t care whether or not DP’s positions are progressive. I would sincerely prefer that he at least attempt to be persuasive.
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Yee gads, any lawyer knows how to at least try to do that.
fairdeal says
what was deval’s early “bold” stand on healthcare?
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seems to me that his position from the beginning was, let’s just wait and see how the current situation unfolds and in a few years maybe we’ll begin to tackle real reform. when exactly did he come charging out against the prevailing political winds?
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so, are there similarities between obama and deval on the issue? yeah, i’d say so.
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