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Live Blog Debate

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This starts out with the spinners Candy Crowley and Bill Schneider talking about the debate in a “Pregame Show”  Lou Dobss is hosting the pre-debate and obviously setting up his preferred narrative – illegal immigration – as the frame to view the contest. 

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  1. letting Lou Dobbs hog the pre-debate talk ranting against illegal immigration.  Whatever you feel about the issue or whatever you feal about Lou Dobbs it demeans the debate by gobbling up the time talking about his pet issue.

  2. dismissive of the Democrats why are they hosting this pre-debate??

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    They are spending the whole predebate show demeaning the candidates and the debate.  What a bunch of hacks!

  4. First half of the debate will be asked by CNN Anchors.  There will be follow up s.  The restrictions are to stay on topic.

  5. her “parsing” tendency – taking both sides of issues.

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    Hillary says that people who know her – know that she stands up for working people etc

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    Obama is asked to comment on this.  Obama says what people are looking for “straight answers on tough questions”  He cites the last debate on licenses for immigrants and Social Security. 

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    Clinton — says Obama talks a lot about stepping up but when it came time to stand up for Universal Health care his plan left people out. 

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    Obama — disputes this and says his plan makes health care available to all

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    Clinton–says she cannot let that go unanswered–his plan does not mandate insurance  —– I am losing thread

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    Edwards– Is asked about the politcs of “parsing”  he admits no one on the stage is perfect.  He relates that Clinton had a chance to stand up to Bush on IRan but didnt.  He says that she stands up for a system that is corrupt.

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    Clinton—Wolf tried to cut her off — and she rightly insists on answering Edwards’ charge against her record.  She reports that when he ran in 2004 he was against universal health care.

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    Biden — Is asked is this exchange good for Dems.  Biden says people dont give a darn about this back and forth.  People care about not being able to make a living, are worried about their son and daughter in Iraq.  Biden cites his experience and starts to recite what he has done but Wolf cuts him off

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    John Roberts asks John Edwards why is it OK for Edwards to change his positions and it isnt for Hillary.  Edwards says it is OK to change positions but unlike his change in positions Hillary takes two positions at the same time. 

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    Wolf Blitzer asks Dodd about his statement about Edwards being angry.  Dodd says there is a shrillness to the debate.  People  are worried about their health care, their jobs etc.  He says that Biden was right that we lose the ear of the  American people with the shrillness of the debate.

  7. that they would all support any of the Dem nominees.  Kucinich would only if they are against he war.

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    Campbell Brown asks Obama about undocumented workers:  Obama states that he supports a comprehensive solution–borders prosecuting employers, and then address undocumented workers who are here.

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    Obama–coments on the driver license issue, saying that he supports that and that it a distraction of an issue.  He does not give a yes or no answer at first but then says yes.  It is basically same answer as Edwards, Richardson and Kucinich on the yes or no answer.

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    Edwards—Does not believe this is a yes or no answer also but it makes sense as a

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    Kucinich — I take exception with your characterization of people as illegal.  People are not illegal.  He would cancel Nafta.  He would support licenses as part of comprehensive plan

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    RIchardson notes that he does support them and the experience in New Mexico was positive.

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    Biden and Clinton say no. 

  8. He gives a great and heartfelt answer.  He clearly knows and feels this issue passionately. 

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    p>  I just cant keep up with typing.  I’ll just watch at this point.

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    So far all the candidates have been very good in my opinion

  9. When candidates try to add nuance, Wolf insists on just a yes or no.  Is this supposed to be more illuminating?  Why is this even a question, do Democratic primary voters give a fleep? (Issue sure doesn’t make my top ten.)

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    Edwards – no
    Dodd – no
    Obama – yes, supported back in Illinois senate, matter of public safety
    Clinton – no
    Kucinich – yes, wins applause for taking Wolf to task for use of word “illegal”
    Richardson – yes, matter of public safety, signed a bill for this as Governor & accidents declined and insurance rates increased
    Biden – no

  10. Biden: Does not recommend same amount of aid if Musharaff does not reform
    Move from a Musharaff policy to a Pakistan policy — support middle class as opposed to military in Pakistan

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    Richardson is asked if it is a big risk to undermine Musharaff and get something worse.  BR says that human rights are more important than national security.  He gives a detailed answer on the money.  He notes that Musharaff is not doing a good job re terroists now. 

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    Edwards: Talks about terrorists in NW Pakistan, nuclear weapons, and extremist element are examples of failed international policy. He will call for getting rid of nuclear weapons.

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    Obama is asked if human rights is more important than security — Obama says they are not contradictory concepts.  I cant keep up with his answer.

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    Dodd:  notes that national security is more important than human rights — he gives a good short arguement for the limits of  majority rule

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    Hillary Clinton gives  a good response echoing Dodd and citing her experience.

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    Kucinich is ignored despite trying to interupt

  11. Sorry only got three of the responses.

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    Obama – false opposition – human rights and national security support each other
    Dodd – national security
    Clinton – national security, but also agrees with Obama’s point

  12. I’m not keeping up very well…

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    Kucinich – our troops fuel insurgency.  Voted against going in and against funding

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    Obama – some neighborhoods better off, but overall a failed strategy.  Need political leaders in Iraq to change their behavior. Need regional diplomacy.  Don’t just talk to friend, but also to Iran and Syria. 

  13. working proves Petraeus is right.

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    Richardson — does the right thing and disputes the framing of the question.  He wants troops out totally

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    Kucinich— notes that he is the only one 100% against war and funding.  He also reminds that Pakistan instability is a result of failed policy in IRaq

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    Obama—lauds troops,  states that Iraq war policy failed,  cites multiple tours of duty,  disputes improvement in death toll. 

  14. Kucinich – China trade – no environmental standards, no workers’ rights.  People who voted for, including Edwards, need to take responsibility.

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    Edwards – Trade policy – NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. – has been a complete disaster.  Big corporate interests have taken over this government.  Even under Democratic congress and president.  We will not change country if replace corporate Republicans with corporate Democrats.  OK to bring China into WTO, but should hold to its agreements.

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    Clinton – NAFTA didn’t do what had hoped. Shouldn’t let things be imported until sure they’re safe.  NAFTA a mistake to extent that it didn’t deliver what was hoped.  Bush admin not enforcing.  Need environmental and labor standards included. 

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    Dodd – Clinton and Obama support Peruvian free trade agreement.  Should be expanding our markets.  US corporations would be shut down immediately if producing contaminated food.  Why not China’s?

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    Obama – For Peruvian free trade agreement. Includes labor and environmental provisions.  Opposed to CAFTA. Japan sends own inspectors to China to ensure safety.  Why haven’t we done the same?

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    Biden – We have a president that won’t enforce the law.  We have power under the agreement.  Enforce the law.

  15. from China.
    Kucinich give tough answer our trade policy.  Calls out Edwards on his vote for China trade

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    Edwards answers back by criticizing NAFTA but avoids question on his China vote.  He is ok with his vote for normalizing relations with China after some probing

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    Hillary is asked if Nafta was wrong and Perot right.  She admits that Nafta hasnt worked out as envisioned.  Then she gets back to the issue of China–she proposes an investigative body on imports.  She considers Nafta a mistake –with some nuance.  She makes a good point about WTO being the only trade organization that has a say on how trade agreements are enforced–she says that labor and environmental regulators should have power over agreements-not just the WTO

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    Dodd–I couldnt keep up with his answer

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    Obama defends his Peru vote

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    Biden has nothing against agreement as much as the fact that it is not enforced.

  16. Obama – climate change is real.  Cap greenhouse gases.  Polluters need to pay.  Invest in alternative technologies.  Nuclear is part of the mix.  Need research on safe disposal of waste.  Rejects the notion that we can’t meet our energy challenges.

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    Richardson – the future is renewable, not oil, gas, nuclear, coal.  Find technological solution for storage of nuclear waste.  American people need to sacrifice.

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  17. He feels that all big energy sources are part of the solution.  He says that we should be looking at what can be done to solve waste problem–technological solutions as progress. 

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    Richardson is the person with the most experience.  He speaks out against subsidies for oil, coal and nuclear to the exclusion of other sources

  19. Clinton – attacking me not for being a woman, but because I’m ahead.  Running not as a woman, but because best qualified.

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    Edwards – nothing personal here.  Voters have choices.  Hold us all to the same standard.  Goes back to idea of corporate Democrats.  Says Clinton defends the system, takes money from lobbyists.  Voters deserve to know the differences between the candidates.

    • this is a fast moving debate.  I like it so far.  It is the before the debate spin that was lame. The post-debate is usually spin too. 

  22. and her son who has done 3 tours in IRaq.  He says dont invade IRan and bring the troops home.

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    She asks about Iran–How will you show your leadership and avert the winds of war

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    Biden:  States that saying that the Iranian forces are terrorist organizations is a mistake.  He says if he takes us to war without vote he should be impeached

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    Clinton: is asked about her vote on Kyl-Liebermann.  She says that there is no legal authority to invade Iran.  Diplomacy is the way to avoid war.  She says that the Iranian Rev guard are terrorist organizations.

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    Edwards:  States that Bush Cheney has already designated Iranian rev guard  are terrorist organization and that they are developing weapons of Mass destruction–“we’ve seen this movie before”

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    Obama:  supports Biden statement and his missing that vote was a mistake–the hazards of running for president

  23. Undecided voters are to ask next set of questions.

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    Mother and son who has served 3 tours in Iraq.  Standing O for the son.  Mother is worried about a war with Iran.  Son – not what the troops need.  Need to come home now. Mother – conservatives beating the drums of war again.  Don’t need another unnecessary war.  Question – how will you show your leadership now on this issue?

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    Biden – Vote on Quds force – mistake to vote that they are a terrorist force.  Price of oil up.  Message to Islamic world that we’re against them.  If Bush attacks Iran, should be impeached.

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    Clinton – only one of candidates who voted for the resolution declaring Quds force a terrorist org.  Says that that is no basis to fear war in Iran.  No legal authority for Bush to start such a war.  Need diplomacy with Iran.  But Iran is assisting militias attacking our troops in Iran.  Believes Iranian revolutionary guard is a terrorist organization. Carrots and sticks needed.

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    Edwards – Need to stop Bush, Cheney and the neocons.  Clinton gave Bush, Cheney what they wanted, part of their path in moving militarily on Iran.  Revolutionary guard declared terrorist organization.  Says we’ve seen this movie, we know how it turns out.

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    Obama – should be concerned, since language of resolution included maintaining forces in Iraq to blunt Iranian influence.  This resolution was a mistake.  Need to change mindset.  Diplomacy needed, but not just envoys, would meet personally.  Regrets missing vote on this himself.

  24. Richardson — will pull out all private military contractors and would have troops out of Iraq in a year.  He proposes health insurance for all vets not just VA benefits.  He advocates for mental health parity

  25. Richardson – get all of the contractors, get all of the military out of Iraq.  Increase military pay.  Heroes health care card – let vets get health care anywhere they want.  Treat mental health with parity.

  28. Abused under Patriot Act provisions.

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    Edwards – Patriot act needs to be changed. Racial profiling needs to be stopped.  Need to restore America’s moral leadership in the world.  Close Gitmo, no renditions, no illegal wiretapping, no torture, no secret prisons.  (But Edwards voted for Patriot Act.)

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    Kucinich – I voted against Patriot Act because I read it.  Thinks those abused under Act deserve apology.  People voted for war, now against it.  People voted for Patriot Act, now against it.  People voted for China trade, now against it.  Need a president who is right the first time.  Impeachment now.

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    Biden – voted for Patriot Act.  But let’s get back to facts.  Nothing in it allows profiling.  Voted against funding Gitmo, called for closing it 3 years ago. 

  29. Question about Lou Dobbs insinuating link between immigration and terror

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    Richardson – declared border emergency, but should stop demonizing immigrants.  Against the fence because it won’t work.  Double agents, better detection equipment, punish employers who hire illegals, tougher policy with Mexico, path to legalization. 

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    Wolf again cuts him off as he tries to elaborate.

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    Dodd – answers first in Spanish, which I couldn’t follow – better security yes, more guards, more technology, not a fence. 

  30. conflate immigration with terrorism.  Notes no terrorists came from Mexico

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    He notes that Lou Dobbs does this.

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    It is directed at Richardson and Chris Dodd the other Spanish speaker gets to weigh in

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    Richardson — with experience as governor.  Takes command on this issue.  He says put pressure on Mexico to provide jobs for their own people.

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    Dodd — Notes false dichotomy that to be safe you have to give up rights. 

  31. Obama:  We should not privatize. We should protect benefits.  We should adjust cap on Soc Security above the 97K/yr.He moves off onto problems with Medicare, which has exploded in cost under Bush

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    Clinton:  Responds by commenting on fiscal responsibility.  Notes that when Clinton left we had a surplus.  She states that Medicare is a crisis. 

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    Obama: Is noting that raising the cap on six percent highest is not a heavy tax o middle class

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    Clinton: Notes that shoring up SS and Medicare will take bipartisan negotiation

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    This wa a good exchange and I think Clinton and Obama acquitted themselves well. 

  32. Mass retirements of baby boomers in time in record deficits.  What will candidates do to keep social security and medicare available for retirees and their children?

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    Obama – put an end to raiding the trust fund to pay for war, need to return to fiscal discipline.  Protect benefits, don’t raise retirement age, instead raise cap on payroll tax beyond $97.5K – rich should pay on higher percentage of their income.  Control rising costs to fix medicare, need universal coverage, negotiated drug costs.

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    Clinton – for fiscal responsibility, Bush squandered balanced budget and surplus.  Doesn’t support lifting the cap on social security payroll tax – calls this a 1 trillion dollar tax increase on the middle class.  Negotiate drug prices. 

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    Obama – rebuttal – only 6% of people earn above $97.5K – would not hurt the middle class to raise cap.  Would  affect the top 6%.  Clinton not responsibly dealing with issue.  Clinton’s answer is what he’d expect from Romney or Rudy Giuliani

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    Both support bipartisan commission.

  33. Dodd – would appoint pro-choice justices.  No litmus tests though. 

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    Biden – wants to answer questioner’s question, not the CNN hack.  We have ideologues on the bench.  I want someone who has run for something.  Get someone who knows what it means to live life.  Appoint more women.  Will appoint justices who believe in right of privacy.

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    Richardson – is Roe settled law? Do you believe in right to privacy?  OK with him if call it a litmus test – those are judges he would want.

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    Kucinich – yes, would apply litmus test to protect women’s right to choose to appointees.  But also try to provide prenatal care, reduce need for abortion.

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    Clinton – yes, appointees would have to share her view of privacy, embedded in Constitution in her view.  Plaundits to Biden for his knowledge on this issue.

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    Obama – Would appoint justices who support right to privacy.  Taught constitutional law for 10 years.  Wants justices who have life experience, who understand what it means for system not to work for them – wants that experience in his nominees.

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    Edwards – nominees should support settled law and Roe.  Federal judges with backbone are critical, saw how important that was during desegregation battles in the south.

  34. Dodd — Prez needs experience.  Does not believe in litmus tests and has been a firm supporter of Roe v Wade.  He will not appoint someone who says one thing and does another.

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    Biden–commits to supporting a woman.  He also says that he insists that nominee understand the precedent of Roe v Wade and the right of privacy

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    Richardson–Is Roe v Wade settled law or not.  if they dont believe that then they are not adequate

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    Kucinich–Wants to respect right to choice as well as prenatal care–not sure if it was a direct response.

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    Clinton–Would have to share Clinton’s view on privacy.  Roe v Wade exemplifies this.  She lauds Biden’s expertise

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    Obama — Has to support right to privacy.  Role of court is to protect outsider–those with less clout.

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    Edwards—Insists on right to privacy and Roe v Wade as settled law.  He elaborates on a judge that has courage to stand for principle as in the segregated south

  35. Obama – I think I can do a better job bringing country together(than Clinton), why he’s running for president.  Particularly in foreign policy – differences should end at water’s edge.  Advisory role for Republicans and Democrats.  Lead in other ways – schools in Middle East, talk to enemies, not just friends, restore habeus corpus, shut down Gitmo.

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    Clinton – running for president of entire country.  Reach out across divides, find common ground.  There will be differences.  We aren’t going to wake up after the election and not believe what we believe. 

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    Biden – end the war.  Include Republicans in his administration.  Republicans agree that our foreign policy needs change.  Don’t buy into premise that this will be hard – Republicans are afraid to take on Bush, but many don’t agree with him.

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    Richardson – return to diplomacy and negotiation, mideast peace – ?? not sure how this relates to question about uniting the country ?? – Wolf cuts him off.

  36. Clinton – wants both.

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    That’s it for this debate.  Now for the spin room fun.  Good debate, although I found Wolf overly intrusive. 

  37. Diamonds or pearls — she says she has been noted to not take both sides of an issue and says she wants both. 

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    It was a weird way to end.

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    I think that this was a very good debate.  I wish Kucinich had gotten a little more time for himself. 

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    They will spin it for Hillary

  38. She gets center stage.  The commentary is all about how Hillary did? 

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    I thought they all did well.  I dont like the way that they make the debate About Hillary. 

  39. I dont think he slipped on a single point.

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    I think Clinton did well–but it is annoying that she is the only topic of the spin.

    • were important—although I do think it was strange that Iraq was virtually ignored.  Media like this contributes to our national denial

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      Obama made an excellent point questioning the media spin about the succcess of the surge.  He was tough on this.  No one in the spin room cares about the issues obviously.  Richardson committed to getting our troops out. 

      • I like Obama and have been volunteering in a small way here and there (mostly busy of late with 4th Middlesex senate race).

        • Dem candidates.  I can live with Clinton.  I was more impressed with Richardson and Biden tonight than in previous debates. 

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          I would just love to see Obama break the racial glass ceiling.  Like with both he and Clinton –I dont want to squander the realistic chance we could elect a black man or a woman.  They are all fairly close on most issues and they still need to negotiate with Washington. 

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