Another book of note is Dogs Bite But Balloons and Slippers are More Dangerous that helps to dispel some of the hysteria and fear over our impending doom.
The statistics on dog bite numbers in America from the National Canine Research Council shows there not much basis to support media and political claims about an epidemic of dog related fatalities:
U.S. Population / Fatal Dog AttacksYear Humans Dogs Attacks
1950 151 million 20-22 million 10
1970 203 million 31 million 12
1980 226 million 40 million 15
2000 281 million 60+ million 19
Here’s an interesting take on people who use the EDBA of Australia’s web site (as was done here on BMG) for perpetuating the myths:
The station manager sent me ‘proof’ of the ‘locking jaw’ statement made by the air-head radio host.
Guess what it was?Yes, that half-baked article run in 1996, typos and all, which had been posted on the Endangered Dog Breeds Association of Australia’s website so they could mock it. The EDBA actually took it down quite awhile ago because knobtards in the media were treating it as factual, so he must have had a cached version.
The banning of specific dog breeds has been increasing all over the world in Canada, US, Australia, England, Germany, etc. The myths are everywhere, pernicious and consistent. They are unbelievably used to support radical legislation. How can that happen if there is no logic and no research to support the myths? Is it racial profiling with a new twist? Pit bulls are being systematically targeted for destruction, maybe because of media portrayals of their owners? Vilified, demonized and despised, but why? Who is the responsible party in this tragedy? All of these breeds have been around for a very long time, owned by Presidents, used in film, used as service dogs. They haven’t changed. Myths abound about what fighting dogs were all about, but there is little or no historical accuracy or perspective given like at: www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm
There are no facts to substantiate the inaccuracies. None. Anywhere. Zero. Nada. Even the CDC and the AVMA have acknowledged the flaws in statistical reporting and are opposed to breed specific language. The media still uses this data to support the hysteria (including posters on BMG who wouldn’t take the time to read the caveats). Since when is data based on media reports an acceptable source for a scientific study? Talk about bridges for sale!
In Paris part deux, I will identify the “who” responsible and why every single person on this blog site, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian or independent should be concerned about this. I’ve got to run for now for my daily dose of reading through more case law and legislative proposals while listening to the excellent web broadcast on this issue. The site also contains a detailed list of where legislation is impacting all of us (including right here in MA).
Since there is no accuracy or fact behind data being used to legislate this isssue, there is subsequently no accurate data or facts to show that such legislation has done anything to remedy the perceived problems. If there’s no science to identify the problem, there’s no validity to the proposed solution.
One last note, because this is primary season. Did anybody post about the Huckabee son dog killing incident discovered by Digby?
I thought the title was offensive enough. Then I read this:
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p>
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p>Please do not use this offensive analogy. It reminds me of the PETA campaign comparing holocaust victims to chickens.
and it in no way belittles the deaths of millions of Jews at the hands of Nazis. The exact same methods used by the Nazis are being used to exterminate breeds of dogs. I am no fan of any of the so-called “Animal Rights” groups, and will be posting further on that subject. PETA, HSUS, Best Friends, ALF are groups that are not what most might think. PETA is actually supporting the destruction of a breed, as hypocritical as that may seem. The goals of these mega pac organizations are part of the problem. They are the ones who are shameless.
It is not the truth. My grandparents were not dogs. Its anti-semitic.
As someone who’s Jewish, I find not only the title, but the post offensive.
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p>Lolorb: This is for you: While people here will post what they will, I don’t buy into the notion that pitbulls “are in the same boat as the Jews in Nazi Germany”
It’s ludicrous, and there’s absolutely no comparison. It’s pure baloney.
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p>Moreover, lolorb, if you’re looking to change my mind about pitbulls, forget about it….don’t hold your breath.
down that road ad naseum. Apparently, there’s no hope of not hearing it all over again.
I did not compare your grandparents to dogs. I compared the systematic destruction of a breed to what happened to six million Jews during the Holocaust. The methods and the approach used then are being used again to cause a worldwide effort to force these beliefs down the throats of people. The ignorance, intolerance and bigotry are now aimed at another target. I would think that you would appreciate someone caring enough to point out the similarities and prevent it from happening again.
Sorry, but I was part of that earlier conversation that went on way too long and while I agree with you that pit bulls are misrepresented through the media and that mplo failed to use facts in her arguments this is not the route to take.
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p>I too had family that was murdered in the Holocaust. I would argue that the media (and politicians) are often too hasty using the “Holocaust” or “Hitler” cards. Unfortunately I think this is a case of that as well.
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p>Mplo and other’s arguments are not borne out by fact, but that does not make them complicit in genocide. I see systemic attacks but do not see the “systemic destruction” as you put it, against pit bulls.
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p>In the case of people calling for the ban of pit bulls this failure to use rational thought makes them dumb. In the case of people calling for culling the animals it makes them evil and abhorrent. Even this, however, does not make it a pit bull Holocaust.
have had relatives who suffered during the Holocaust. So, I’m not unfamiliar with the fate of those who spent time in the concentration camps or were put to death in the crematoria. It’s because I understand the horror that I make the analogy. These dogs are being systematically targeted with laws that are essentially death warrants.
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p>
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p>The anger, hatred, fear and loathing of pit bulls has been propaganidized and institutionalized to the extent that I’m willing to make the analogy. Millions of dogs are being euthanized based on myths perpetuated by the media, politicians and organizations that purport to care about animals and life. You’re welcome to disagree with the analogy, but I stand by it based on the facts that I’ve presented and will continue to present.
that claiming that “pitbulls are in the same boat as the jews in Nazi Germany” is a tactic that many of the antiabortionists, or pro-lifers, as they call themselves, frequently use to prevent women from making choices that they feel are right for themselves and their families, and to try to stop abortions from happening.
Not a good tactic, imo. Whatever positions you may hold regarding pitbulls, comparing them with the Jews in Nazi Germany doesn’t even begin to hold water. There are people being maimed and killed in Iraq right now courtesy of the United States, and throughout the world, for that matter. Don’t get me wrong, lolorb. I love animals too. I’m a pet person who’s owned exotic birds in the past and presently owns an adorable Noble Macaw.
I agree that the remark was a bit over the top, but I don’t see why it makes the entire post “offensive”.
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p>More likely, you consider the post offensive because it contradicts your earlier stated opinions.
Sorry, that was supposed to be in response to mplo….
“What happened was the gradual habituation of the
people, little by little, to be governed by surprise,
to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to
believe that the situation was so complicated that the
government had to act on information which the people
could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if
people could understand it, it could not be released
because of national security… To live in the process
is absolutely not to notice it — please try to
believe me — unless one has a much greater degree of
political awareness, acuity, than most of us ever had
occasion to develop. “Each step was so small, so
inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion,
‘regretted’… Believe me this is true. Each act, each
occasion is worse than the last, but only a little
worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait
for one shocking occasion, thinking that others, when
such a shock comes, will join you in resisting
somehow… Suddenly it all comes down, all at once…
You remember everything now, and your heart breaks.
Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.” —
German professor describing the arrival of Nazism to
American journalist Milton Mayer
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p>And:
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p>”How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” – Adolf
Hitler
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p>And:
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p>”Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan
horse of ’emergency’. It was the tactic of Lenin,
Hitler, and Mussolini. In the collectivist sweep over
a dozen minor countries of Europe, it was the cry of
men striving to get on horseback. And ’emergency’
became the justification of the subsequent steps. This
technique of creating emergency is the greatest
achievement that demagoguery attains.” -Herbert Hoover
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p>If you think for a minute that the tactics used to pass unconsitutional and unwarranted punitive measures against dog owners, especially owners of American Pit Bull Terrriers, is any different that the tactics and propaganda used to target Jews (or any other human ethnic group)for extinction, then read “The Killing Fields Of Denver – Genocide Of A Breed”:
http://www.dogpolitics.com/my_…
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p>Then come back and play nicely with lolorb. She is right on the mark, and perhaps less naive then most, as the villified owner of a villified breed. I couldn’t keep reading this thread, without jumping in…
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for providing historical context, which I could never have done so well.
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that! MPLO, get a grip!
this
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p>
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p>be offensive if it’s an accurate analogy of prevailing attitudes as has been proven countless times on this site? I am neither anti-semitic nor insensitive to the Holocaust. That whole period of history was shameful. The same mentality is prevalent again and people are just ignoring it. Does that make it right? Does criticizing my use of an analogy help to dispel the myths or does that help to perpetuate them? Media is not paying attention. Huge PAC’s are investing money into these issues. It’s true, and it’s happening, but nobody is really paying attention to the outcomes. I’m going to keep posting on the subject because it’s important. I’m very sorry if you feel I’m being offensive. My intention is to point out reality.
But dogs are not people. So I have to agree: bad analogy. I’d respectfully suggest you edit this post — it is full of useful and interesting information, and the unnecessary Nazi references are all that anyone is paying attention to.
will take out the reference. Dogs are not people. They are property for the moment, although there is an organized effort to alter that status away as well.
There is no systemic campaign to kill pit bulls. You can freely purchase and own a pit bull.
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p>Dogs to not have the same rights or dignity as persons. I love dogs, but there is a clear separation between the two. If forced to choose between running over 1 pedestrian, or 2 dogs, I’m choosing the dogs.
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p>People are not using pit bulls as scapegoats for all problems in the nation. Nobody thinks we’re in Iraq because of pit bulls.
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p>I’m not really involved in this discussion lolorb, but do yoy think this line of argument is really winning any converts to your side?
breeds are being scapegoated for the ills of society. I have changed the text and title above, but the message is the same and I will provide documentation to prove it. The only way to get this message out is to sensationalize it. In certain areas where breed specific legislation has been passed, you cannot freely purchase a pit bull (or anything that might randomly appear to be a pit bull based upon some unknowable legal determination). In some areas of this country, your dog can be removed from your home and euthanized just for having vague characteristics of a “pit bull”. I would say that can be considered a systematic campaign to kill the “breed”. This issue has gone far beyond “pit bulls” to one of property rights and civil liberties.
thousands of innocent pit bulls who have never done anything wrong who are being killed every day at shelters. There ARE also innocent pit bulls who have done nothing wrong who are being seized from their owners just because they are pit bulls and are being either neutered/spayed against their will or killed just because they’re a pit bull. I read horror stories every day about innocent pit bulls whose lives are in danger for having done NOTHING! There is a woman is Canada right now who has a wonderful, sweet pet pit bull. The dog got out of her yard and animal control seized it and will not give the dog back to the woman just because it’s a pit bull. The dog did NOTHING wrong out of the yard. The woman is pleading for the dog’s life and for animal control to give the dog back to her. As many people understand, dogs can be just like family members and there is a high emotional attachment. I have two sweet pit bulls and they are like my children. If anything happened to them, I would be devastated, just like this woman in Canada who is totally devastated over the loss of her sweet pet. There is a family in MD who had cops come to their house. The cops were looking for a criminal and actually went to the wrong house. The family had their pet pit bull tied out in the yard at the time and the dog started barking. The cops shot the dog and killed it probably just because he was a pit bull. The family was not even allowed to go out in the yard afterwards. What a horrible tragedy, just because he was a pit bull.
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p>In Denver, where there is a pit bull ban, thousands of pit bulls have been killed just because they are pit bulls. Most pit bulls can be wonderful family pets. They were actually bred to NOT be agressive towards people. Petey from the Little Rascals was a pit bull. Stubby, a pit bull, was the most decorated and loved dog in World War II. There IS mass destruction of pit bulls occurring and it is for no good reason at all except for the uneducated decisions of these politicians making laws based on knee-jerk reactions to the media hype and bias reporting of pit bulls in the news. The media reports much much more on pit bull stories than they do on stories on other breeds. I have even heard a news person ask someone if a dog that bit someone was a pit bull and saying that they weren’t interested in the story if it wasn’t a pit bull.
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p>This is a wonderful breed, athletic, intelligent, people-loving, loyal, etc. I love this breed and I am NOT one of the two types of people that someone earlier suggested are the two types of people that own pit bulls: criminals and low-income people who can’t afford other dogs. I am a law-abiding citizen with a college degree who makes a higher-than-average salary and there are many many people like me who own this wonderful breed.
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p>The mass destruction of these dogs is a TRAGEDY!! There should not be mass destruction of any living creature like what is occurring now. This mass destruction is what lolorb is referring to in his comparison and it is incomprehensible that people are letting this happen every day for no good reason.
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p>Sorry, but I don’t buy into the notion that there’s a systemic, massive destruction of pitbulls going on in this country. In many cities, including Boston, where a pitbull restriction law exists, people aren’t being asked to get rid of their pet(s), but to take the responsibility of muzzling them while out in public and to insert warning signs in their places of residence and/or business. It’s a moderate law, but people who don’t comply with it should be prepared to pay a penalty for not doing so, be it a fine, or whatever.
are ridiculous if it for a particular breed. Muzzling dangerous dogs is not ridiculous, but they should be shown to be dangerous. Isn’t this country based on “innocent until proven guilty”? My two pit bulls have high-level championship titles in agility. How would I be able to continue to compete with them at agility competitions if I were required to muzzle them in public? In addition, muzzling and warning signs would give others the false sense that my dogs are dangerous and THEY ARE NOT!! Boston might have a pitbull restriction, but many cities are considering pit bull bans and it is spreading like a virus. Also, requiring additional insurance just for owning a pit bull is unaffordable for many people and these insurance companies are making it pretty much unattainable. So, because of these RESTRICTIONS, many people are choosing to get rid of their dog and they end up going to a shelter and getting euthanized. This is very sad that this is happening to these poor family pets!!
it’s not so terrible to have a small restriction like that put on your dog. Remember…nobody’s telling you to get rid of your pitbull(s). Just take some responsibility and comply with the law if there is one in your city or town, that’s all.
Sure, if “it’s not so terrible to have a small restriction like that” (a muzzle on your dog) then why not institute it equally among all breeds?
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p>Here comes fluffy with a bejeweled muzzle of rhinestones. There goes droopy with a muzzle made of soft, stretchable spandex. Oooh, and over there is Peepsi the Chihuahua with her muzzle made of alligator leather.
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p>So mplo, you up for muzzling all dogs if it isn’t so bad?
Pitbulls do have the capacity to inflict much more severe damage than other dogs when they bite, which is why that particular restriction law is advocated.
The notion that this is discrimination against a specific breed, or “dog racism”, is pure malarkey, imo.
Hey, I’m only using your words. If you don’t stand by your words how can I trust you at all? I mean, up until now you’ve been such a great person to discuss this issue with.
about pit bull bite strength that we have provided information against with sources. Here it is again. Why don’t you read it this time?
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p>Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin, Ph.D as well as other experts, testified that pit bulls do not have locking jaws. Based on actual dog dissections and measurements of their skulls, the evidence demonstrated that pit bull jaw muscles and bone structure are the same as other similarly sized dogs.
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p>No evidence was presented to demonstrate that a pit bull’s bite is any stronger than other dogs of its size and build.
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p>Dr. Brisbin testified that contrary to information relied upon and perpetuated by earlier case law and law review articles, assertions that a pit bull can bite with a “force of 2,000 pounds per square inch” have absolutely no basis in fact or scientific proof. The testing of dog bite strength has never been done and would be difficult, if not impossible, to perform. Toledo v. Tellings, 2006 WL 513946 (Ohio App. 6 Dist), March 2006
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p>(Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin, Ph.D., Senior Research Scientist with Savanna River Ecology Laboratory and University of South Carolina professor; Expert in behavior, training and handling of pit bull terriers and their anatomy)
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p>There is no scientific evidence showing pit bulls to have a stronger bite than other large dog breeds. In fact, when Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic (Dangerous Encounters: Bite Force, 8/18/2005) measured the bite forces of three dog breeds (Rottweiler, German Shepherd Dog and American Pit Bull Terrier) using a computerized bite sleeve, the American Pit Bull Terrier generated the least amount of pressure out of the 3 dogs tested.
mplo?
Most everyone gets the implications here, so let mplo hang her/himself. It’s amusing and requires no effort. The poster “Constitutionalist” above added a link that I had not even known about when I posted. It’s worth a read.
Do I have to? It’s fun. Ohhhh, alright.
you are good at it. Thanks for your input and interest. I really did not mean anything negative with the original title and I honestly had no idea the subject had been covered so extensively on a Dog Politics website! I have a lot more coming, and it’s very well documented.
I assumed you didn’t mean anything by the title but it is one of those things that just gets people going. I also believe, like I said, that people throw around comparisons to the Holocaust and/or Hitler too often. By the same token I think people toss around “anti-semite” too often to many people who may be ignorant jerks but do not specifically hate any ethnic group.
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p>As to whether I continue on this thread responding to she who shall not be named there’s just something about some poster’s inability to read, or to follow links, or to look at a credible independent source of information and say “Oh, maybe I was wrong about that!” You’re probably right that I should sit back and enjoy the ride.
that I have absolutely no interest what. so. ever in altering my position on Pitbulls, regardless of what other postings you may put on here. If you’re out to educate me on this subject, forget about it. Don’t hold your breath, babe.
Frankly, my instinct is not to trust your idea of what “well-documented” really is, and I don’t.
If you’re not going to engage in discussion, could I suggest buying a nice blank book?
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p>Fill it up with your opinions.
<
p>Lots of them. Especially the inalterable ones you will resolutely never change. Save these books. Posterity
might read them. “What a woman mplo was,” future readers of your resolute, unalterable opinion might say to themselves.
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p>It will be much more fun for you.
n/m
We have entered into the magical, mystical world of good and evil where the forces of Satan meet those of Christ. See Church of the Final Judgement for future reference. There’s a reason I referenced Dr. Eric Berne and cults in my other post. It’s a long, weird story. If someone is programmed, that’s the only reality.
can you be? MPLO, you obviously must not have very much intelligence to be so close-minded. Why do you keep refusing to even research the sources of information that have been provided?
I don’t need people to provide links for me to research it on their terms. Thanks.
My goodness mplo, you’re not going to alter your position? In reading your dozens of comments through multiple strings on this topic I haven’t seen you say that exact same thing at least five or six times already.
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p>The thing is, nobody cares to change your opinion. You have shown yourself to be such an irrational being that we all understand nobody in their right mind will listen to a thing you say anyway.
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p>Using the link above you can choose your preferred definition for “irrational” as used here. For kindness I’ll go with: not governed by or according to reason
we can create an entire new web site based on this. How about a alternate BMG universe site specifically for non-reality based commentary? There, you could post endlessly with nothing but fantasies in your head. It sounds rather idyllic, don’t ya think?
I did some more research, and I found the following:
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p>Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:23 am Post subject:
I believe the answer to be an unequivocal yes. Here is a fairly detailed statistical study that seems to agree.
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p>http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%…
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p> and:
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p>http://www.halifaxcourier.co.u…
You are like a gift sent from the media! I don’t know that I could prove my points any better than by pointing to your inanity. Your first link has already been debunked. See Merrill Clifton below. Statistics based on media reports. Laughably, your second link is to another media report!! If it wasn’t so sad and pathetic, I’d have to thank you for making my case.
Why….thank you, sweetie!! :=).
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p>
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p>Glad to know it.
are so proud of your positions, I think you should be sure to send out links of how well you’ve stood up to these myths to all of your friends and family. They should know how absolutely well you’ve done in posting on BMG. They’ll be amazed!
n/m
A gift from the media is right!!
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p>I’m glad. ;=)
n/m
and a VERY responsible dog owner. Why should I then be forced to muzzle my sweet dog in public? How would I be able to compete in agility competitions with a muzzle on? These are not small requirements. The insurance alone is unaffordable for most. Plus, the requirement that these cities are talking about to build a concrete enclosure is expensive and ridiculous and I sure as hell am NOT going to keep my dog in a concrete enclosure all the time.
This:
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p>Imho, is ludicrous. Nobody’s asking pitbull owners, including yourself to keep your dog(s) in a concrete enclosure. The so-called “concrete enclosure” is all in your mind. All that’s being asked is for you to take responsibility and comply with the law. Responsible dog-owners comply with the dog laws in their cities/towns.
tried to pass a law requiring pit bull owners to 1) muzzle their dogs in public, 2) post warning signs, and 3) build enclosure that have a concrete floor. And this is just one city that has attempted to do this. So, get your facts straight, mplo!
Boston, too has a law requiring pitbull owners to muzzle their pitbulls in public and to post warnings signs in their places of residence and/or business to warn guests, clients, meter readers, etc. However, to my knowledge, Boston does not have a law that requires pitbull owners to build enclosures for their pitbulls that have a concrete floor. Since Boston’s pitbull law only requires the first two above-mentioned things of pitbull owners, it’s really not much to ask, imo.
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p>Also, I think that too many pitbull advocates/owners are getting hysterical about the possibility of having their pitbulls taken away from them, which is not what this law is about at all, in Boston, imo.
It is not just pit bulls. There are just too many people who do not neuter their animals — the result is many thousands of dogs and cats of all breeds that are euthanized every year.
A small consolation is that MA is a net importer of dogs and cats, yet there are still many animals put down here as well.
but the reason these dogs are put down is because there are too many dogs in the population and not enough homes. The reason most pit bulls are put down is because they are pit bulls. There are several cities that will euthanize the dog just because they are a pit bull. There are many shelters that will not adopt the dog out just because they are a pit bull so they are automatically euthanized. It is discriminatory.
I don’t pretend to be an expert on this issue and I don’t necessarily support breed-specific legislation, but I think it’s a bit disingenuous to limit your “proof” to fatalities alone. I may not die if a pit bull takes off my finger, but he’s still more dangerous than a poodle that doesn’t break skin.
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p>The following stats show a breakdown by breed of REPORTED attacks over the last 25 years. Since these numbers were taken solely from media accounts, we can assume there is a fair amount of bias involved, but pit bulls account for more than half of all attacks and 42% of fatalities.
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p>I’d be interested to see a more scientific breakdown of attacks by breed.
All types of dogs are capable of drawing blood when they bite and standard poodles are quite capable of doing quite a bit of damage.
I meant that figuratively, not literally. My point is that fatalities alone are not a good measuring stick for the relative “dangerousness” of a breed.
so called data collection “methodologies” have been called into question repeatedly by experts. Again, here’s someone trying to use media reports as a basis for scientific data. He works for one of the big PAC organizations that seems to be seeking recognition, media publicity and large donations rather than seeking to dispel the myths. There are huge amounts of money to be had in appeals to the general public with cute animal pictures and sad stories. Big money maker, lots of PAC contributions, etc. The hypocritical message is: Hate pit bulls and have fear and loathing, but love all creatures and give us lots of money to save them. Any organization that does this needs to be questioned.
just went where the media goes by finding one item that is easily available to support the myth. I’ll find the link that debunks these figures as well — it’s out there, but journalists don’t question and do exactly the same thing. It’s terrifying how little reality is seeping in. There are thousands of documents available from specialists in the fields of veterinary medicine, dog breeding, animal welfare, animal training, etc. that debunk this over and over and over again. Who gets called as expert witnesses? Who benefits from perpetuating the myths? Who slavishly shills for the media? I’ve spent weeks getting to the bottom of this talking to the people who are experts and have no voice. Court cases are being tried based on perpetuated fallacy. This is what people should fear because there’s a basis in fact.
…and I specifically said that the numbers were likely skewed by media bias. However, I have not seen anything more scientific and since this happens to be your diary, I was hoping you could point me toward something more substantive.
if you know they are skewed!?!? And they are HIGHLY skewed!! Any numbers based on media reportings are going to be significantly higher for pit bulls because reporters like to report on that breed and sensationalize them. You are contributing to the media bias!! Then what happens is that someone will take your report and put it on some website as if it’s factual and people will think it’s true. In addition, you can’t just take numbers of incidents without also taking the population of each breed into account. If there are 100 pit bulls in the population and 5 chihuahuas and there are 20 pit bull bites and 5 chihuahua bites, then you should not conclude that pit bulls bite more!! But this is exactly what people are doing, making these false conclusions based on bad statistical analysis. Instead, 20% of pit bulls bit and 100% of the chihuahuas bit.
You are obviously very passionate about this issue. You must have some facts to accompany your passion.
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p>As I said above (twice) I would like to see a scientific breakdown of attacks by breed. Because even if this particularly study is innacurate, it still shows that more than half of all reported attacks are caused by pit bulls. Is he off by 10%? 72%? You say that they are “highly skewed.” Please, show me the numbers.
this information is not available. As was stated before, the CDC did a study, but it is simply bare statistics without reference to the total numbers of dogs in each breed population. “It DOES NOT identify specific breeds that are most likely to bite or kill, and thus is not appropriate for policy making decisions related to the topic.” Source: National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. Also:
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p>”Each year, 4.7 million Americans are bitten by dogs. These bites result in approximately 12 fatalaties; about 0.0002 percent of the total number of people bitten. These relatively few fatalities offer the only available information about breeds involved in dog bites. Currently, there is no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill.” Source: National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.
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p>However, according to a small study in PA:
“Although pit bulls create the highest number of reported bites numerically, they are not the dogs that are shown by the data to be the most likely to bite. Chows and Bernese Mountain Dogs are statistically far more likely to bite when the number of bites is compared to the total licensed population of those breeds. By that measure, the 4% bite rate for pit bulls falls closer to the 3+% rate for Pekingese. If the goal is to target the dogs most likely to bite, then Chows and Bernese Mountain Dogs would be much more logical targets and many more breeds would fall within the same range as pit bulls. In 2007, the bite rate among pit bulls is 4%. That is, we have received reports of 18 pit bulls biting people and 419 pit bulls have been licensed. This contrasts with a bite rate of 33% for Bernese Mountain Dogs (1 biter/3 licensed) and 18% for Chows (3 biters/16 licensed) and 3% for Pekingese (1 biter/29 licensed).” (Humane Society of Berks County, Study in Reading PA)
That’s what I was looking for. It’s a pretty small sample, but at least there is some data to support your point.
The point I was trying to make in my post is that there are no valid statistics. None, anywhere. I linked to one of the books on the subject. I’m no scientist, but I can figure out that unless there is a consistent and verifiable source of data, you end up comparing apples to organges. Anybody can skew the results for whatever purpose, and the question that needs to be asked is “why is this being done?”. That is what I’ve been wasting my time doing for over a week and why I’m posting. Since there is currently no way to track all animals who are unlicensed, the totals, the percentages and alarmist numbers presented are not verifiable. Lumping an entire spectrum of dog breeds into one undefinable category based on irrational bias cannot possibly lead to validity. It is chilling that almost two generations have been taught by the media to hate and fear something without evidence. If the CDC can’t come up with valid statistics with their access to data, then I’m thinking nobody else can or has.
Lolorb, let me reiterate, that I really don’t have strong feelings about this one way or the other, so I’m not trying to be argumentative.
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p>I hear pit bull advocates state all the time that they are being targeted unfairly and while that may very well be true I am less clear on “why?” Why pit bulls and not, say, rottweilers or dobermans? Why are German Shepards used as police dogs and not pit bulls? Why don’t farmers use pit bulls to help corral their sheep? There has to be some scientific rationale behind our understanding of different breeds of dogs and I don’t think its all based on selling newspapers.
I got involved in this by accident. I happened to be the first person to respond to the post on pit bulls. At that time, I knew there was a lot of intolerence and ignorance about pit bulls, but I honestly had no clue (like most) as to the details. Since then, I’ve taken the time to educate myself about the issue because I have unintentionally become the target of legislation being enacted all over the country (and world). I rescued a dog because I couldn’t stand to see a puppy left to die a slow death of starvation. He happened to be some type of pit bull mix. I didn’t go out looking to own a “pit bull”. He found me by being abandoned on my property. Since starting my research, I’ve come to many conclusions that I hope to share in further posts. Even in your comment, you have concluded that pit bulls aren’t used as police dogs. That, unfortunately, is another myth. These dogs have been used as service dogs precisely because of some of their natural traits, devoted obedience, love of people and temperament. But, you will not hear or see these examples anywhere in media portrayals. I know it seems almost impossible, but this is a campaign of fear and intolerence that is being waged against living creatures by those with an agenda. I would not make the statements that I have without doing my homework. Since this is supposed to be a “reality based” commentary site, I thought I would take it upon myself to provide some of the reality to counter the misperceptions that others wish to perpetuate. Democrats seem to understand that media wields far too much power. I’ve been documenting exactly that. The best way to set precedent in legal terms is to do so under the radar and with lots of cover. Since bias already exists on the pit bull front, it’s open to some serious exploitation without alarming the public. I’m sounding the alarm bell. I can only hope that some people will get it based on the facts that I present. It’s the best I can do, and I did not set out to do this. It fell into my lap, and I can’t ignore it. I like certain types of dogs because of their tenacity and persistence (which are not bad traits), and maybe I share some of those characteristics as well.
You cannot spout off statistics that are taken from media accounts. It has been shown that the media MUCH MORE on pit bulls than other breeds right now and many times do not even have an interest in reporting on non-pit bull stories. There are plenty of other incidents involving other breeds besides pit bulls, we are just hearing of a much smaller percentage of these incidents. So please do not provide any statistics based on the media!!
can break skin too. They have sharp teeth and some of those smaller dogs are nasty. Plus, a 90-lb german shepherd may be more dangerous than many pit bulls. You can’t say that pit bulls are more dangerous than other breeds. It depends on the individual dog, just like you can’t say that all inner city black people commit crimes. It is based on the individual and we should not be discriminatory.
You people need to stop being so literal. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used a poodle. Maybe a chihuahua? Or a schnauzer?
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p>Forget that my analogy mentioned specific breeds at all. Some dogs are more capable of inflicting serious harm than others. How’s that?
Some DOGS are more capable of inflicting serious harm than others. Key word is DOG not BREED. It should be based on the individual dog, not the breed.
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p>The above-mentioned quote from your post is precisely what I’ve been trying to drive home here. The fact is that pitbulls are capable of doing much more horrific damage than most other dogs, including rotts, dobermans, etc., and pitbulls do more than just penetrate the skin when they bite, because of their much bigger, stronger jaws. Unlike most dogs, pitbulls tend to bite much deeper, into the musculature of their prey and are capable of crunching bones, to boot. Inotherwords, they’re capable of totally mangling their prey. That, in itself, imho, is what makes pitbulls much more risky than other dogs. No matter how I feel about continuing to allow pitbulls to be bred, imported and sold, people who own pitbulls should at least have the common good sense to take the responsibility that goes with owning such a dog and comply with the muzzling law in their town/city, assuming there is one.
Here are some sources of information on the subject:
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p>Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin, Ph.D as well as other experts, testified that pit bulls do not have locking jaws. Based on actual dog dissections and measurements of their skulls, the evidence demonstrated that pit bull jaw muscles and bone structure are the same as other similarly sized dogs.
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p>No evidence was presented to demonstrate that a pit bull’s bite is any stronger than other dogs of its size and build.
<
p>Dr. Brisbin testified that contrary to information relied upon and perpetuated by earlier case law and law review articles, assertions that a pit bull can bite with a “force of 2,000 pounds per square inch” have absolutely no basis in fact or scientific proof. The testing of dog bite strength has never been done and would be difficult, if not impossible, to perform. Toledo v. Tellings, 2006 WL 513946 (Ohio App. 6 Dist), March 2006
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p>(Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin, Ph.D., Senior Research Scientist with Savanna River Ecology Laboratory and University of South Carolina professor; Expert in behavior, training and handling of pit bull terriers and their anatomy)
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p>There is no scientific evidence showing pit bulls to have a stronger bite than other large dog breeds. In fact, when Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic (Dangerous Encounters: Bite Force, 8/18/2005) measured the bite forces of three dog breeds (Rottweiler, German Shepherd Dog and American Pit Bull Terrier) using a computerized bite sleeve, the American Pit Bull Terrier generated the least amount of pressure out of the 3 dogs tested.
You are new enough here, that you may have missed the infamous mplo post here. Facts don’t matter in this instance, so I thought I would save you the effort of providing links and data.
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p>I did that here. mplo will forever believe that pit bulls are crocodiles.
mplo post, but I still had to add my two cents.
and thanks for providing additional information. It is important to get this information out there to counter the prevailing myths.
It’s agreed that some dogs are capable of doing more serious harm than others, and pitbulls do fall into that catagory. Maybe their jaws don’t lock, but they are stronger. One has to ask why pitbulls tend to bite much deeper and penetrate the musculature of their prey and have the capacity to crush and break bones, unlike most dogs. I don’t believe for one minute that those tests are reliable. I stand by what I’ve said.
Gosh, if this had been a key assertion of mine, I’d care about whether it was true or not. I wouldn’t take a “maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not” approach.
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p>If I wanted to convince anyone other than myself or my diary, I might actually provide links or give some reason to doubt these tests other than my mere assertion.
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p>Aside from its grandiosity, “I stand by my assertion” is not even true. You have abandoned it unreferenced.
a Senior Research Scientist who has a PhD who testitied as an expert in court or another PhD Dr who performed a separate study, then go do the tests YOURSELF as it is obvious that you won’t believe ANY source that is presented to you.
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p>The above-mentioned quote from your post is true, Wookie, and 70% of those fatalities involve children.
in the newspaper that has plenty of biased mis-information about pit bulls.
Also, PBMB and lolorb, it’s very hypocritical of you both to accuse me of “whipping up hysteria & fear”, when you’re both on a hysterical tangent about a “pittbull holocaust” or a “pitbull genocide” going on, or in the making. Invoking either of those terms, imho, is extremely irresponsible and undermines the fact that there are shameful chapters in world history that have to be remembered and learned from so that they never happen again.
on the internet? It MUST be true!
n/m
dogs kill people. Or don’t.
kill people every day. The odds of being killed by a dog are minimal in comparison. People bite people too.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/U…
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p>Pomeranian Kills 6-Week-Old Girl
September 21, 2001
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p>LOS ANGELES (AP) – A small Pomeranian dog killed a
6-week-old baby while the infant’s caretaker briefly
left the child unattended to warm a bottle of milk,
authorities said.
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p>The relative, who was caring for the infant girl,
found her head buried in the dog’s mouth Saturday
night, sheriff’s Deputy Cruz Solis said. The girl died
of head trauma at an area hospital, he said.
<
p>The baby’s name was withheld because her parents were
out of the country and had not been notified, Solis
said.
<
p>The relative has not been charged. Animal control
officers took the dog.
<
p>Pomeranians are a breed of miniature canines that have
a foxlike face, pointy ears and long, fluffy hair. The
deputy said Pomeranian attacks are rare.
<
p>“Obviously it doesn’t take much to kill a 6-week old
baby but it’s not something that happens with that
breed,” Solis said.
<
p>Copyright 2000 Associated Press.
<
p>————————————————————
http://www.coldsteelpits.com/c…
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p>http://www.webtrail.com/petbeh…
<
p>” Pomeranians are great watch dogs and are unaware of
their diminutive size. They have a “big dog” attitude.
This is part of their charm, but it can also be their
downfall. They will not hesitate to attack… ”
http://www.americanpomeranianc…
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p>Owner Of Pomeranian Cited For Attack On Pit Bull
http://www.ksdk.com/printfulls…
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p>Pomeranians: Reign of Terror
http://www.chicagoist.com/2006…
that all pomeranians should be banned and/or muzzled then. They must have the capability of inflicting much more serious injury than other breeds especially because of the size of their mouth.
Pack of angry Chihuahuas attacks police officer
A pack of angry Chihuahuas attacked a police officer who was escorting a teenager home after a traffic stop, authorities said.
http://g.msn.com/0MN2ET7/2?htt…
(Or at least sort of…)
it was at the very beginning originally. If you check out the link that Constitutionalist provided, you’ll see that my comparison was in no way original. Dog Politics actually did a comparison of the eight stages of genocide to the pitbull extermination effort (with permission granted by the author, Dr. Gregory Stanton). Your law isn’t really all that applicable here. Maybe in other instances, not here.