After my mother had passed away my father came to live with my brother when one week he insisted they go to the nearby Air show at a Military base. My brother of course assented but did not know why he made that request. When they got to the base my father wanted to go to the areas where various groups were and finally found what he was looking for, a group of aging veteran airmen like himself, Pilots from the Tuskegee Airmen. He grasped each one of their hands and warmly thanked them; He said if it weren’t for them he would not be alive today.
I grew up on the west coast but my father and family hailed from New Jersey. It meant I did not know his brothers and sister well until I moved here in my own adult life but I remember having them over for dinner when my folks were visiting (before they passed on) and a young Haitian man was living with us at the time to help with the remodeling of a house I owned. My Aunt came up to me and asked what was “he” doing there? Her intent was clear but it opened up a window into the life my father was raised in until history placed him in those planes, while an unimaginably hell exploded all around him and his survival was assured by the actions of those other airmen who were wiling to put their own life on the line in his and his comrades defense, regardless of the color of their skin.
I have never understood racism. I mean yes I get it exists and get how ugly it has been but what I mean is it does not register within me. It wasn’t until that story was shared that I understood why. Why in the early 60’s my folks, through their church supported the movement of racial equality, Why they attended speeches of now famous leaders of that movement including Dr. King, Why I was raised thinking that, as Dr King said, the content of ones character is more important……..
Some of the talking heads comments about Obama’s speech stuck with me. “It’s the first time in my adult life that I heard a politician speak with no BS” and “Imagine that, a politician speaking to us on the subject of Race like we are all adults”. 24 hours later and I keep playing the words Obama spoke over and over in my head. This was no “Sound bites of Hope”, no rock star hoopla, just a man confronting the reality of who he is and who we are. It caused me to think of that profound quiet story of my father’s generation and how it changed his life and as a result my own.
What I feel is that Barack Hussein Obama came down from the clouds that his heady rush of a candidacy had placed him on and feeling the historical weight of the moment ground himself by expressing the truth in that moment. You can not have a debate on a problem or find its solution until it is defined what that problem is. With the shadow of Florida and Michigan failing to have an impact, it maybe time for Hillary to consider this is not to be. I cannot imagine what she could do to match the powerful honesty of what Obama said.
As the presumptive nominee I hope Obama stays with his feet firmly planted on the ground. That is a change I could believe in.
is for Clinton to give up her reality for Obama’s. I don’t think that this is reasonable, and I’m sad if that is the type of change you think Obama stands for. By asking CLinton to step aside because Obama’s speech resonated with you because of you family’s history and dealings with racism, you ARE making him The Black Candidate.
…I am making him the reality candidate. That this issue is what brought it out for me is just that; it touched me as deeply as that story of my Father. Who I support is personal which is why his speech resonated so strongly. I actively campaigned for Patrick Murphy for the recent 5th district congressional seat because he had real ideas and not Niki Tsongas’s sound bites, even though I knew he had no chance of winning.
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p>But what I literally contemplated throughout the night was Obama didn’t just do some Political double speak that every one usually does (including BHO). He boldly took this on and did not pepper it with lofty heaven opening sentiments. It was in the words of that commentator, a speech devoid of the usual BS and that he wrote it himself, which given his schedule, means he spent a considerable amount of time considering its length, depth and breath. It was a window into how his mind works and it moved me.
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p>My feeling has not changed that the MSM gave Hillary short shift. I do firmly believe that she would make a great President but her reaction to the unfair level of scrutiny was to throw everything in the kitchen sink.
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p>Finally faced with a growing scrutiny, Obama took the cover off the sewer so we could see our reflection in it without throwing us into it. It is remarkable.
but it doesn’t justify you asking another also well-loved (just not by you) candidate to step aside. you need to respect that other people have differing experiences and opinions on the candidates.
…note the edits I made to my orginal post to (I hope) soften the sentiment.
how about “why i wish hillary would step aside”? you have softened the way that you state that she should step aside, but have not acknowledged in that rewording of the title that she need not step side just because you don’t prefer her. there is great presumption in your suggestion that now that you have found a candidate you think is great for america, the other one should just get out of the (your) way. i’m pretty sure that it is not your intention to be presumptious, but from my point of view, that is what your title and still boils down to.
In political elections, when a constituent finds a candidate that they think would be great for America, they would prefer that other candidates step aside.
That’s the way it works. Especially if the other candidate(s) run the risk of damaging the future candidacy of the chosen candidate and their party.
So I hope Obama reaches the right decision, for the good o0f his party.
That speech was like a grand slam by the visiting team in the top of the 8th inning. Um, actually that’s a bad analogy because they play the ninth anyway, but, when that happens, the other team doesn’t bother to put in their closer for the ninth, they put in the mop-up guy, they pretty much give up. Unless they hit one in the bottom of the 8th to tie the score again, that is.
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p>That speech showed that there really is something to hope for, that he (and we) can convince those people stuck in the static stalemates to look around and change the politics and the country.
for example, i don’t want either obama or clinton to step aside right now. i think both seeing the primary process through is a good thing for the party. if i really thought one was bringing down the party, yes, i would ask them to stand aside. but neither obama or clinton are doing that. at the worst, they may be bringing down their respective candidacies. but that’s the way it works.
… so I went back and reread the speech again. It is like seeing a great movie or reading a remarkable novel in that you have to go back and see again and again to understand all the nuances and subtleties at play. I just read that Hillary challenged Barack to support some FL and MI revote Plan (even if there is no way it could overcome the deficit in delegates for her). The phenomenal stupidly, that each election cycle exposes about the way we go about electing anyone (the MI/FL debacle becoming the hanging chad of 08) is sickening and the unfair treatment of HRC is real and palpable. In that context it makes what Barack said even more astounding. That being said experience is also knowing when to fold em and look to the next deal for a better hand to play. That is what I am asking Hillary to consider (however presumptuous it may be for me to do so).
Find more videos like this on http://www.truveo.com.
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p>I say “Bicycle saddle”
… if Obama had to rely on some (and not all, just a very small minority) of those who have supported him on BMG, he would still be running for State Senator in Illinois.
Quite the hand party ya got going on here.
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p>”I count. I matter. ME, me, me, me….ME!”
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p>Amazing he got this far without “good” help. OMFG.
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p>Happy for your epiphany. Now try making some calls to independents and republicans in PA, IN and NC. Hillary won’t go unless we chop her off at the legs. Mind helpin’?
You deserve most of it.
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p>Your circular, self correcting logic is suspect. Just because you lead the mob with torches and pitch forks, doesn’t make you correct.
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p>I do feel bad that Admin is 100% Obama. NOT!
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p>Maybe you should strike?
I believe it was you who once used a bit of Daily Koz jargon, which described a person who, in the guise of being a supporter of X, offered advice that somehow always shows X in the worst possible light?
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p>”I support B. Hussein Obama because he will impose a tax on white people to pay slavery reparations, and I hope he emphasizes his education at that madrassah, because we need a President who is respected by the terrorists as one of their own…” etc.
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p>Is this guy a variant of that phenomenon?
Username: John from Lowell
PersonId: 2952
Created: Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 08:48:01 AM EDT
17 Diaries and 153 Comments
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p>I have always been ardently pro-Obama and have taken a more aggressive tone towards our good friends the “Clintonistas.”
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p>Things have been slowing down, but there seems to be a rabid hunger for “curb stomping” Obama in this log. Sure the Admins are all with Obama and, of course, blog with more finesse.
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p>Unfortunately, the Clinton faction on this forum, blog like they are in Ft Apache. Frankly, the “conversation” has degraded into hyperpartisan, gynocentric blather, imho.
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p>I have been amusing myself with punting, for the last few days. Maybe, pot stirring is a better word. Ya know, MAYBE as a casual observer, I have missed some fine threads on Obama v. Clinton and the Dem Nom ’08. I am sure of it.
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p>Sorry to say there are a few, do-or-diers on this site advocating for HRC, that have embarrassed themselves with their high mindedness, supported with shallow rhetoric.
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p>With an Obama nomination comes an elevation. One that is likely beyond me. The difference is, I can admit that.
What the heck is curb stomping?, says I. Google it, I does, and I discover that it comes from that charming movie, American History X, and is a method of execution used by the skinheaded character, who conveniently has a swatika tatooed to his chest.
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p>So, we discover today that John from Lowell thinks people who do not support Mr. Obama are (i) racists, (ii) skinheads, and (iii) neo-Nazis. That’s like, half of the entire Democratic Party, and never mind Republicans and independents!
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p>That doesn’t sound remotely elevating to me.
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p>I call shenanigans. There is no way that you support Obama, because your every post is the antithesis of everything that he is supposed to be about.
Curb Stomping is actually chicano. I am sure the skinheads grabbed it.
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p>Although this and “stormfront”, I must be a latent “skinhead.” Please don’t tell me immigrant wife. Please.
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p>You guys are pretty viscious, but whatevs. Keep pulling outta the Clinton/Penn/Clinton handbook, borrowed from Karl Rove and adapted for use on Dems.
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p>That was fairly slick, the google branding. I have never thaought of that before.
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p>Note to self: When losing, find plausible lies and brand with hot google iron.
So, that’s two obscure references from you in two days that seem to suggest that the CLinton campaign is being run by neo-Nazis. Quite a coincidence there.
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p>Note to self: When your candidate is in dead heat, accuse the other side of being Nazis! It works on the Internet, why not in real life?
I put curb stomp in quotations, to describe the pile on tactics used here. (likely a blogscape thing) Also, my knowledge of the phrase comes from an Army buddy of mine that was a former cholo. (google that)
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p>Your gang has a handy way of assembling truths that are not truly applicable, but you arrange them loosely and then self-validate by a crooked consensus.
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p>But you and yours are the only ones buying it.
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p>Hmmmm. Bush/Cheney have been called facist. Hillary has been called Bush-lite. Oh. Oh. Maybe she is a nazi with a small “n.”
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p>Guilt by fabricated association. Bring in Kevin Bacon.
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p>truthiness:
Where exactly?
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p>Even Clinton supporters have reacted quite positively to the speech, and expressed admiration that it appears to have been written by the candidate himself.
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p>The only one getting piled on is John from Lowell, who seems to have a habit of making outrageous libels about anyone who doesn’t agree with him.
Your last two comments were nothing but an illogical attempt at demonizing John for his hard line stance.
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p>The stormfront reference he has admitted was a mistake and he removed it. He made no reference to the group and stated he had no knowledge of it’s existance. (neither did I actually). It was another who made the connection for him.
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p>The term curb stomp or ‘curbie’ as I know it, has been around for decades. Probably since the were curbstones.
Simply because your little search conveniently brought up reference to a scene in a movie, does not mean that you can logically tie the act to Nazis.
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p>Your arguement is weak and hateful. Despite my dislike for John’s strong words, he doesn’t deserve that kind of baseless slander.
David did. After I reminded John in a comment what sotrmfront meant, after John replied to me in refusal, an editor had to clean up after him. just so you know the facts about who you’re defending here…
Yes, Justin erred to say I changed the subject line, David beat me to it. However, the timeline you claim is false, as I have demonstrated.
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p>Ya see, when you speak, people listen and you are accountable. I’m sure this may all just be a joke to you, but you should really get a grip on how you conduct yourself here.
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p>I have been walking you all around on these last few threads, just so I could prove to myself, likely the forum knows already, that you and you posse are challenged by the weight of it all.
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p>The vast majority of the diarist on this particular thread are making a compelling arguement to be ignored.
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p>I am starting to think, like on Thanksgiving, they have the “kids table.” The bunch of you give should that some consideration.
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John still admitted the mistake. That particular ‘specific’ about who I’m defending does not change the motivation.
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p>CMD’s comment is just as repunant regardless of who redacted one of the words in question.
Your name is John from Lowell.
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p>Really – this was a beauty: “Sorry to say there are a few, do-or-diers on this site advocating for HRC, that have embarrassed themselves with their high mindedness, supported with shallow rhetoric.”
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p>You have an authentically high opinion of yourself, John from Lowell. You must have busted both arms patting yourself on the back with this one.
And here I thought Thursday was Troll Day.
….how thoughtful and considerate debate veers into a race to the
sewerbottom for no apparent rhyme or reason. (A fascinating study really in its ultimate uselessness as informed dialouge) I always understood the point of debate was to challenge fixed ways of thinking through intelligent counter point rather than the oft used tactic of if you throw enoughshitmud at it, it may obscure reality (regardless of what you end up covered with in the process of throwing it) which seems to be a dominant subtext of reaction to what I originally posted (not what you started to do Laurel BTW). Talk about computer viruses.It’s true my zero was not really about that comment, but because it was the first comment from Laurel I came across after seeing that she had zeroed another one of mine, which she does far too often. I meant it as a consciousness raising tit-for-tat, to get her to see how it feels. It feels much worse for me, because I have had many comments hidden by Laurel and her compatriots, so when I get a zero, I feel like I’m about to be censored by a biker gang that has taken over a town. That wasn’t going to happen in this case, so I knew the zero would only communicate my annoyance in what I thought would be a playful manner.
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p>But I’ll unrate it, because zeros are only for comments that don’t break the rules, not for comments that say something we find offensive or objectionable, and not to send tit-for-tat messages back and forth to our favorite adversaries.
I actually am sorry that I picked this fight on this diary, freshayer.
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p>It hadn’t been FP’ed at the time, so I kicked up nerves.
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p>The diary is exactly what the Obama movement is about. You connecting your story to our stories, to America’s story.
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p>That was the real power of Obama’s speech in Philly. It opened you up to that. It opened many up to the promise of America.
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p>Don’t let it bring you down
It’s only castles burning,
Find someone who’s turning
And you will come around. -Young
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p>Annie Lennox Version:
I am reading this and feeling just a tad betrayed. It’s your perogative to change it up, by all means, but I can’t throw Hillary under the bus because of a tidal wave of emotion created by a speech. I have a little more starch in my soul than that. I recognize the historical weight of both of these candidates and can’t quite wrap my head around thinking that one’s history making candidacy is any more valiant, valid or more urgent than the other’s.
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p>Well, I buried my grandmother today, who lived to a ripe old age of nearly 95. She was seven years old at the time of “the vote” for women. A born saleswoman (she could sell icecubes to Eskimos)had she been born in another time, I sincerely believe she would have been a bond trader on Wall Street. But she wasn’t; she was expected to marry and have kids…and she did. She worked her fingers to the bone doing menial labor, because education was for the boys. Her brothers did very well for themselves…but the sisters only did as well as their husbands. One did okay – but my grandmother was widowed young and with little formal education, had to support four children. I still remember the calluses on her knees and her hands; she cleaned houses for the rich people in Cambridge. Yeah, the course of our family changed with the death of my grandfather…and that meant I got to become the first person in my family to earn a degree.
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p>What has this to do with Hillary’s race, you might ask? My grandmother’s truth, her life, is a testament to how far women have come in the last eighty years…but there are still people who believe that we should just “wait” our turn for the brass ring- wait for the “right” woman (code for perfect), the “right” time, to reach for the presidency, decades after many industrialized nations have already had women presidents and prime ministers. I am depressed that one whom I had considered a stalwart would turn on a speech and point to a history…when this history is just as valid, just as urgent and just as necessary. But evidently, not enough…not when he asks Hillary to “step aside” because she can’t match the “powerful honesty” that is Mr. Obama’s. Funny how the obstacles keep shifting along this crazy road.
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p>Ah, Freshie – I thought you were made of sterner stuff than that. I am so disappointed.
and I’m sorry that Hillary Clinton lost you as a supporter. Or more precisely, that Obama won you as a supporter.
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p>I maintain the wish that it had been due to something Obama did, rather than something he said.
And what is sadly significant given the current state of our discourse is that Obama wrote the speech himself. It is not a focus-group/poll-tested piece of pablum.
and I am beginning to realize that using “Step Aside” was done with callous ignorance of what that means to women, a further testament to the dialogue we need to have on all subjects . My Apologies as it was not my intention to offend.
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p>But Obama didn’t just hunker down with his team and contrive a speech to balance the rhetoric of a 24 hour news cycle, he did something extraordinary and the saddest thing would be for that to disappear into the endless jockeying for context in this race. History is not a contest it is a reality of moments and it doesn’t diminish Hillary’s achievement. The saddest thing about this race may be these two achievements had to happen at the same time so that one was always going to feel “set aside” for the other.
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p>And to Justice, My grandmother (mother’s side) lost her husband when my mom was age 4 and never remarried struggling to raise four kids on her own. To this day I have infinite respect for single moms. My mother buried herself in the role of a house wife because society said that is what she should do. I keep a picture above my desk she drew to remind me of who she might have been if times were different. Your story touches my heart and I am sorry for your loss.
It’s funny when you put that in google, it says
just incredibly disappointed. And Fresh, history is not just the “reality of the moment” – it is also the perspective and the context of the people who commit history to the page. I think one of the saddest things that could happen would be for Hillary to “step aside” and clear the decks for the kid after all that hard work, all those sleepless nights, mind-numbing fatigue and gut-wrenching election days. It would be wrong not to at least lose with honor at the convention instead of withdrawing like a whipped pup. Besides, it would make John from Lowell way more smug and more self bloody righteous than he already is.
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p>The calls to “step aside” have been coming louder and louder from party insiders, in recognition that “neither can live while the other survives,” in terms of obtaining the nomination. When you made the same call, after all your support, it felt like a punch to the stomach. It feels as though because Obama has the lead, then Hillary should just get out of the way and let the kid have it…when the rules (yep, gotta love those pahty rules, right? Right, Florida and Michigan?) are clear that a certain benchmark of delegates has to be met. Since neither of them will have it prior to the convention – why should Hillary step aside? Why end her candidacy when there’s a chance, however slight, that she could prevail at the convention?
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p>I’m ready to paint my face half blue, sharpen the pikes, and strike up a Celtic war dance. Whatever the outcome, I’d rather see Hillary die with her boots on than to succumb to the cries to step aside. Better a fallen warrior than a beaten cur.
Because her victory will be at a cost so great, John McCain will become President.
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p>She can only end badly.
He can’t hit 2025 on his own. So, why not let it play out to the end? Let them compete honorably and may the best woman or man win.
Obama is willing to lose Florida by silencing their delegates at the convention. Same on Michigan.
Payback’s a b****. These guys can scream “but those are the rules” all they want…but disenfranchising the average citizen’s right to vote by virtue of the sins committed by their elected officials won’t be repaid with kindness. I do love how the Obama fans love the rules…until you point out that he still has to reach 2025 delegates to get the nomination. Then they want Hillary out of his way, rules be damned.
While I absolutely respect Freshayer’s opinion, I wish his change of heart had been based on an action to further the common good, as opposed to another speech. You know, if he had built houses with Habitat for Humanity while Hillary decided to do her Easter shopping or something. Something. Anything.
For the record, during the many months leading up to the NH Primary; Barack Obama mobilized the massive grassroots organization there to benefit local community organizations.
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p>Habitat was shown the love.
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p>I have seen this form of community altruism throughout Obama’s campaign. Civic activism is exactly the type of “ground up” politics that Obama is talking about.
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p>You can go back to drubbing freshayer into recanting now.
Kinda sad how you brow beat him into amending the diary several times.
And for the record, Fresh was “browbeaten” by others far more gifted that I, prior to my arrival at BMG. For the record, I was at a funeral most of the day, and didn’t get on until later in the afternoon. So bite me, you precious, precocious little snark. You give the Obama crowd a bad name.
…has left me with fairly thick skin.
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p>And I agree with you 100%
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p>
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p>To be honest I knew what I wrote would set off commentary from Hillary supporters which I receive with the respect it deserves and the sadness it would create. I don’t feel brow beaten at all. And that yesterday was your grandmothers funeral is a sadness that had to coincide……. Please do understand I am moved by that.
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p>My expectation was the few snarky members of the Obama crowd’s reaction would be without respect for decorum. It is the reality of a democracy that all voices are heard.
has given me not only a thick skin, but a serious punkometer that seems to peg when Mr. John from Lowell starts with me.
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p>Thank you for your words. I am working hard to overlook this ahem, shortcoming. I can go back to giving you 6’s once I recover.
… my already diminished feminist credentials, something about “there is no power greater than a women’s scorn” comes to mind…………
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p>Completely unrelated but since you are a fan of Mr. Stevenson rhetoric thought you would enjoy this:
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p>
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p>From a speech by Adlai Stevenson when he was US Ambassador to the United Nations in July of 1965
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p>Somebody was paying attention long before it got popular to do so.
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p>FYI: All my female Hillary supporting friends got to brow beat me in person.
Would that I had the opportunity, Fresh, you would have felt the heat of my wrath upon your person for weeks to come. And just so you know – it’s so not a “woman scorned” thing – it’s a justice and equity denied thing, wrapped in a celtic hurricane. Blessedly for you, the kitchen sink is still intact. It’s what I do.
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p>Thanks for the piece from Adlai Stevenson. I started to research his career when the hollow platitudes from so many politicans resonated about as keenly as a plastic bell. The more I learn, the more I admire and respect the man.
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p>A google search found some interesting items
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p>This is a formidable heritage to be proud of and I feel the heat of your ancestors as well.
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p>FYI however an under 40 Obama supporting feminist woman friend (who stopped talking to me) has begun talking to me again. (Shrug, Can’t win any way I play the game)
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p>I will be glad when we get to a nominee so we all can remember we play in the same league even if we play on different teams. (Feels like I left myself open to a comeback here, Shrug)
it’s politics, we’re not saving lives in Dafur with this nonsense, after all. Your friend needs to understand that. It’s silly really. So let me tender my apologies for having a filthy temper. I can go from 0-60 in no time and then take it right back down again. My ancestors, however, would have kicked your turncoat arse. 😉
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p>While I would love to have you still supporting my candidate, I do get the thinking. Is it possible that subconsciously you’ve chosen the perceived nominee in the hopes of getting to the place “where we remember we play on the same league” more quickly? I wonder.
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p>In times like this, I tend not to look left or right, but eyes on the prize…no blinking first. I don’t even read the crappy press anymore…I’m just riding it out until it’s over.
.. I am as amazed as those who reacted. I truly am sick of politics as usual and unfair treatment of any one, so to have any of them Stop, Speak truth as unvarnished as that just got to me. Take a read on the speech again. Shut off the U tube feed and read the text as a person who gets Emerson, hence enjoys words that speak (and you don’t have to give up Hillary to do it) It is remarkable.
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p>And being only ½ Irish and male it is likely my arse would easily be kicked.
Good speech, but didn’t change my mind. Canned speeches don’t do a lot for me. And then, there were parts of it, like the grandmother stuff, that really bothered me. Go, Hillary.
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p>But, to each his/her own.
Obama is certainly the “Man Thinking” Emerson called for in The American Scholar. Oliver Wendell Homes called Scholar “America’s ‘Intellectual Declaration of Independence'”; I think time may show Obama’s speech to be our generation’s declaration of intellectual independence from our entrenched, “racial stalemate” way of thinking about race and politics.
You see Emerson…others see JFK and the second rising of Camelot. I think people want so badly to believe in a greater good, and a government upon which this is based, that they’re hoping beyond hope that this is real. For your sake, I hope you’re right.
Jayzuz- that explains everything. I know what half was doing the talking in this last week.
It’s all because I had to take the pledge again last week.
I bond with your grandmother’s story. My mother was forced out of school and put to work to help support the family (younger step brothers)around the depression. She later became a union organizer, but quit working to raise her family.
There are many female politicians who have worked their way to the top based on long years and long times dedicated to the goals the believe in.
We could mention Napolitano, Grandholm, McCasstle, Gregoire, Blanco, Gregoire and Muculsky. These have all fought their way to the top.
Hilary Clinton chose to start at the top by going for an open NY Senate seat using her husband’s name recognition.
She is now running for president based on her husband’s record, rather than her own record. (note she couln not influence him against NAFTA, but brought peace to Northern Ireland and Bosnia).
I would gladly vote for any qualified female candidate that had bucked the “old white male” system to reach their goal on their own legislative/administrative accomplishments.
Let us make peace among ourselves!
How many men have started at the top and haven’t been dinged for having done so? I think that would be the brothers Kennedy, no? And all of them running on each other’s coat tails…but we’re all good with that, right?
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p>The difference between you and me, is that I recognize the barriers that are erected for women that we don’t think twice about for men.
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p>Thanks for bonding with my grandmother’s story, though.
Justice…your grandmother’s story is a universal story in this country…waiting is what women have been asked to do since our nation’s inception…
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p>I agree with Chris Rock who said that women are over 50% of the voters, they can elect anyone they want! he could not understand what they keep waiting for, and neither do I.
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p>Senator Hillary Clinton can stay in the race until some one wins the race…and I think she should. They are basically even in national polls. She has earned the right to finish this race, as has Barack Obama.
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p>I was struck by a NYT commentary today that said BHO’s speech was a profile in courage. I thought it was a fabulously crafted and delivered speech. He is a true orator with a prepared text and the topic is long overdue. However, courage to me is when you choose to do something brave. Sen. Obama had no choice. He had to give a speech to stop the hemmoraging and save his campaign. And in spite of that fact, he did a good job. There was only one missing thing, one question to answer (and I don’t mean the fact that of his admission that he lied about his presence in the church when Jeremiah Wright was preaching hate)…no, I am refering to his timing…that speech should have been given when he FIRST knew and abhorred the hateful philosophy being preached…I cannot get by the fact that he could have lasted 20 years in this church without speaking out…that’s not courage, political or otherwise…
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p>Here is real political courage, a profile in courage: a mayor in a blue collar city in Massachusetts was attending a Catholic mass with her husband and 3 children. The gay marriage debate had been swirling on the news as a concon vote approached. The church was full. Toward the end of the mass a lay deacon took the microphone and began to speak about why the parishioners should fight against gay marriage and call their legislators to demand it be stopped. The mayor stood in disapproval, looked at her kids, told them to get their coats on, and marched them right up the aisle and out while a whole congregation watched and knew why.
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p>Don’t you wish barack had had that kind of courage when it counted, not when it was politically required?
Yes, I do wish Mr. Obama had that kind of courage, AND I wish the press would actually try something resembling reporting for a change. Don’t you think that the treatment of the speech has been in accordance with the same kind of love-bombing that the press has shown Mr. Obama time and time again? I happen to agree with you – it was the speech he had to give, in a format with which he is very comfortable. Did I miss a Q&A, or was that a format he doesn’t seem to do so well in?
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p>I also recognize, HL, that my grandmother’s story is universal and that we’ve been waiting since Abigail Adams admonished her husband, John Adams in this March 1776 missive:
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p> I long to hear that you have declared an independancy-and by the way in the new Code of Laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make I desire you would Remember the Ladies, and be more generous and favourable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the Husbands. Remember all Men would be tyrants if they could. If perticuliar care and attention is not paid to the Laidies we are determined to foment a Rebelion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any Laws in which we have no voice, or Representation
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p>So Freshayer – hear me now! Here we are, some 232 years later and we are still waiting on the world to change, your “road to Damascus” conversion, notwithstanding. How’s that for an honest truth? waiting….waiting…waiting And still asked to “step aside,” by my “progressive” brethren. Phooey on that. It’s going to be a long time before I forgive you for this perfidy.
Hands out “4s” when he disagrees with that you’re saying but can’t seem to refute it. This is ratings abuse!
I figured out long ago that HR Kevin’s job is to hand out 3’s and 4’s to every post I make. (Or for that matter, anyone else whom he disagrees with as well)
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p>If HR Kevin did NOT give one of my posts a negative rating, I would start to worry that he was ill or had not shown up for work. It has gotten to be a joke here, so it amuses more than aggravates me. His pal Bean Burbs does the same thing. It’s funny/silly Jr High stuff but it’s their thing, waht can I say…
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p>For whatever reason, I am not able to post ratings of others comments from my computer/server. There are many that I applaud and cannot acknowledge.
Check your browser settings to see if javascript is enabled.
I treat “4: needs work” means as meaning just that: the comment makes good points but has some flaws. In this case, I think accusing Obama of lacking courage was a bit of a low blow. If you look at my recent ratings you will see that I have handed out plenty of 4s for people on both sides of the Obama/Clinton debate. In many cases, I would give a 4.5, if that was an option. I think that people are getting too emotional and too caught up in being right. That is also why I have been trying to restrain myself from responding to every point on which I disagree.
in le courage de coeur; he was merely lacking it in this case AND I might point out, on the issue of gay marriage. It’s exceedingly difficult to call out your family on their bigotry, and it takes not only courage, but a certain willingness to take a bullet if they, the ones you love, turn on you. And they do. I know of which I speak. I refer to the Irish Alzheimers that periodically takes hold in my family, in which they will forget everything but the grudge.
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p>HR – it’s hard to understand how 20 years can go by without Mr. Obama hearing Rev.Wright preach the kind of stuff that’s been blazing about the news in the few weeks, just like the kind of nonsense that some of my older family members have peddled across the dinner table, lo these many years. That’s not to say that I jumped up across the Christmas dinner table to repudiate the bigotry of my great aunt “Edie” – I didn’t. But after I gave her a subtle tickle about her nonsense, I would make sure I innoculated my kids to prevent that crap from infecting the next generation. And that’s what’s important. If someone didn’t tell Rev. Wright that his remarks were inflammatory and inappropriate coming from a preacher, what’s to prevent it from getting to the next generation, particularly from the pulpit where those sentiments will have even more weight? Isn’t this a problem throughout the world?
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p>I get liberation theology, but there is a time and place for everything and I’m not sure that the pulpit is that place. Young ears may not necessarily have the maturity and context to understand the perspective of the speaker, or to incorporate the message without also taking on the same raging anger and pain into their spiritual DNA. I also recognize that it’s hard to know what to do, because you want the next generation to never forget their roots, while taking their rightful place as the leaders of their generation.
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p>The courage “thing” took even more weight when juxtaposed with the story about an elected female official who stood up walked out with her family during an anti-gay marriage homily. If you also look at the timing of Mr. Obama’s remarks, I think the author made a very good point about the political nature of “having to make the speech” instead of doing it when it should have been done.
Ratings indicate the personal reactions of the raters to comments, just like replies to comments are personal reactions.
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p>However, the one case where we should all try to keep community standards in mind is in handing out hide ratings which indicates that you do not believe the comment fits the community standard for what should appear in this blog. In that case you are essentially telling the moderator to delete the comment so that people coming along later will not see it.
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p>Personally, I would prefer that this site adopt a rating system similar to that used at dailykos. On that site, you can either “recommend” a post or not, and if you are a “trusted user” you can also vote to hide a comment. There are still avenues of abuse in such a system. It is all too common for people there to hide-rate comments simply because they disagree with the comment, although if you are caught this leads to losing your “trusted user” status. On BMG, I don’t think we need a trusted user concept, but I think it probably would be helpful to simplify the rating system.
…not for a minute do I think that Hillary should step aside. In fact, her campaign has been gaining momentum in the past weeks since Texas and Ohio, and her poll numbers are rising. Why on earth should she bow out now?
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p>It’s up to the Democratic voters to decide who stays and who goes…and it’s nice that Obama’s speech was so meaningful for you, but that’s really not a valid reason for Hillary to end her campaign.
Obama’s speech on race was emblematic of who he is and what he brings to the Presidency. With a frankness missing from modern politics, he does not shy away from both condemning the incendiary remarks of his former pastor and from creating context for those remarks within the African American community. It would have been politically easier in the eyes of most of white America to simply condemn and disown and walk away. Instead he engaged us in much more complicated and nuanced discussion of race in America, as complicated and as nuanced as race is lived in America. He affirmed the realities and resentments of our diverse lives and asks us to find and share a common purpose, “e pluribus unum”, to engage in a new dialogue on race in America, so that we might build an American future that includes us all. I believe Obama also echoed one of the most important aspects of his beliefs and his life experience in that speech: in the mutable nature of racism in America, that we are not bound by racism, or singularly defined by it, or condemn to it. As a former community worker, like Obama, in the poorest and most diverse ward on the northside of Chicago, I learned that a belief in the mutable nature of oppression isn’t just idle hopefulness, it’s what makes change possible. I saved this quote from another poster from another site: “Desire will always outreach the possible. But to accomplish the possible is to enlarge it.” Wendell Berry.
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p>Hillary Clinton has had the opportunity to deliver a speech on race like Obama. She could have done so over the Ferraro remarks. She chose not to. She has always had the opportunity to deliver an address on sexism, the way Obama has done on race. She has not done so. One can argue that Obama had no choice, he had to give a speech, and that’s true – but he didn’t have to write and give this speech, but he did. As a woman, I would love for Clinton to speak about sexism in America in way that Obama has about race. I would love for the only candidate in this race who truly know what it is to be a woman in America, with everything to lose, to speak to the American people for me as a woman, the way Obama has for me as a person of color.
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p>I guess I am ready for a President who doesn’t simply lead or has experience or has good judgment or is a fighter or who passed the most legislation or will pick up the phone or stare down the terrorists, or all those very good practical and necessary things, I am ready for a President who teaches, who calls upon us to think differently and more selflessly about what it means to be an American, and asks us to accept our responsibilities for each other, to work together for our common good. on issues that have divided us as a nation and as a people for over two centuries, like race.
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p>Welcome freshayer!
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p>What Obama put out last Friday, the usual canned politics as usual auto response to the Rev Wright flap had me firmly in my “Sound bites of Hope” mode. But as we all have since learned; over the weekend he spent each night crafting that speech, sharing it with few of his advisors. I now realize why he was at times halting in the delivery, relying on the teleprompter to read it because I would wager that he worked on it right until the moment he handed the disk to the who ever loaded it in the teleprompter. He didn’t rely on applause lines or rock star moments. What Obama did was to stop, halt, and for a moment get real because, as he has since shared, from his own dissatisfaction with how he was dealing with those 24/7 reels of Rev Wright. It took me 20 hours for my own mental wheels to stop processing what occurred through the lens of my own willingness to only see life with the color of glasses most comfortable for me to wear. Tuesday was him having the courage to speak the truth in a manner that I have not heard since the heady days of growing up in the 60’s. I continue to go back over that speech because it is so much more than a speech about race. It is about America as a country divided and how we perfect that division and why. Just look at the vitriol evidenced even in this small forum to understand that we have all gotten so good at justifying how to keep the wedge in.
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p> I remembered the story of my Father because it is not about race, it is about changing they way you experience life when the reality of life teaches you. This is why there is a fierceness of my many previous Diaries expressing the genuine outrage I feel about the short shrift Hillary and women have gotten this election season, because no one should get the short end of any stick. But what touched me so deeply about Obama’s speech is he left himself naked, acknowledging his flaws as he acknowledge the flaws of our society, and threw open the door for the microscopic inspection of the relations of his past life and those he chose to associate himself with.
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p>What changed for me is echoed in your words
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p>Nuf Said
Truly an impressive story! Obama is obviously an articulate, intelligent man! I know this candidate is proud for his father very much. His book “Dreams from My Father” tells everything: http://dealstudio.com/searchdeals.php?deal_id=91892&ru=279 , his words really moved me, I think Obama is a shining Light in our modern World, a Man for All Seasons, one capable of bridging the apparent gaps between different groups in the United States.