Blue Mass Group

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“Beyond a Reasonable Doubt”: A Pyrrhic Legal Victory for James Marzilli?

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Well, here’s the “end” of the James Marzilli harassment case. A tough charge to prove, and a tough one to really defend against. “If God did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent him.”- from a mural in the New Orleans bordello scene in “Easy Rider”. Here I quote it to suggest the limitations of our ability to carry out justice. Marzilli’s facing challengers in the election, and I wonder what role this incident will play?  

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  1. is in the minds of people who already mistrusted Marzilli.  among Democrats from his district, those would number in the very few I would think.  so I don’t see this as a liability in the primary.  i have no idea about the general.  his district covers plenty of spots where a number of, shall we say “shoot ’em first, ask questions later” types live.  but they’ll be voting for the repub anyway.

    • Namely, throw as much mud at the wall as you can and hope some sticks.

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      p>It should never be enough to just accuse, and see the accused treated as guilty.  Not ever.

  2. This is a he said she said and without corroborative evidence Leone did the right thing in dropping it. The reasonable standard comes into play.

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    p>However, the standard is most lower for any other disciplinary action, such as this could still effect a person’s job.

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    p>So I have two questions:

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    p>1. If an allegation of sexual assault is made against a state legislator, should the legislature investigate. i.e. refer to ethics committee?  

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    p>2. If there happened to a politician less popular on BMG would there be a call for further investigation?

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    p>The second one is more rhetorical.  The first is not.

    • i don’t believe in persecuting people.  start investigations on any lege who is merely accused of impropriety, and you’ll start an industry of paid “victims” who prostitute the truth for cash.  i bet they’d come cheap.  on the other hand, if regulated properly, Honesty Prostitutes it could be a nice new source of state revenue…

      • should never have been an issue in the Clarence Thomas hearings
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        No cash involved in tisg laurel. Just the truth. Is there evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt, but evidence which strongly suggests he committed a sexual assualt. If so shpuld the legislative body he serves in make an issue?

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        p>So Laurel, if this was Senator Richard Tisei, a Republican, would you be standing up for him laurel like you are for Marzilli?

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        p>Just asking.

        • and convict people based on unreasonable doubt?  

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          p>and yes, even republicans like you deserve the “reasonable doubt” standard.  but it is interesting that you would imply that i would go after people in a partison way.  you prove my point that under your proposed plan, legislators would become vulnerable to set-ups.  not by my sort, but by your sort.  thanks for proving my point with your own suspicions.  very revealing.

          • To get a conviction upon a criminal indictment resulting in criminal penalties requires proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  The presumption of innocence requires nothing more than this, and doesn’t entitle the accused to pretend, in matters other than a criminal trial, that he didn’t do it.

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            p>All non-criminal penalties require proof of more-likley-than-not, regardless of reasonable doubt.  Hence: OJ liable for murder, not convicted of murder. (Also, not convicted of murder, even though he murdered.) The standard for political repurcussions are lower still: maybe he did it, we don’t know, let’s get ‘im.

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            p>In my view, when a politicians skates on something like this, political supporters trot out “How can you disrespect our legal system?! Innocent until proven guilty!” and opponents gleefully point out that the guy skated. All political partisans have double standards on this.  More often than not, it is the supporters who are full of beans.

            • for marzilli.  but i think i won’t spend any more time on ernie’s wild ride.

              • Great response too.  “I don’t want to talk about any more” when CentralMassdad nails it.

      • i don’t believe in persecuting people.  start investigations on any lege who is merely accused of impropriety, and you’ll start an industry of paid “victims” who prostitute the truth for cash.

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        p>This started out as a criminal investigation.

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        p>Not merely accused and I don’t see any real history of these type of accusations. What other l;egislators have been investigated by the District Attorney’s office for sexual assault?

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        p>The D.A. didn’t say the allegations were false. Just that in his professional opinion it is highly unlikly the can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

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        p>Hmmm.

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        p>Who will speak for the victim?

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        p>Who will speak for those withj no voice?

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        p>Where is Wendy Murphy?

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        p>I am tired of carrying the water for women and victims when the far left ignores them to protect their ‘friends’. Like sal DiMasi and Petrolati and Deleo and I could go on.

        • but there is apparently no evidence that there is.  the accuser, if truly a victim (or even if not), could still take marzilli to civil court if she wants to.

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          p>your “carrying water” paragraph will make some nice daisies grow.

              1.  I have lived in the same town with Jim Marzilli since 1983.

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              p>2.  I have been in the same room, same event, same project so many times I lose count.

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              p>3.  In these 24 years there has never been a single rumor of womanizing that I have heard, whether in person, or in the active town listservs.

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              p>4.  I have never heard Jim Marzill tell an off color joke, nor seen him be disrespectful to any female.  I cannot say this of every politician I know!  He has never so much as given a hug without asking first that I am aware of!

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              p>5.  I have  never seen Jim Marzilli “under the influence” – which I also cannot say of every politician I know.

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              p>6.  Jim Marzilli is married to a blond bombshell of a woman who is also a strong, nationally known political figure who I believe would not tolerate womanizing and who is quite capable of tossing someone who disrespected her – and who has told me Jim is innocent.

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              p>7.  I am not a close friend, nor someone who owes Jim Marzilli allegiance for any reason at all.

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              p>So, really, why the “where there is smoke there is fire” mentality on your part?

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              p>That all being said, I bet Marzilli doesn’t give anyone else a ride home unless his wife or a staffer comes along.  It must be saddening that being helpful with a ride led to something like this allegation.

              • I hope you don’t have a duty day when I’m arraigned.

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                p>Read my post. I was asking questions in general. I never went after Marzilli or said we should.

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                p>But you, in the name of defending Marzilli, come charging back with details about Marzilli’s personal life and the great criminal defense of “his wife is gorgeous Judge, why would he go after this dog?”

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                p>Jim Marzilli thanks you for your, ahem, help.

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                p>The D.A. made the right decision.

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                p>But, geneally speaking, should a complaint of sexual assault against a legislator be referred to the ethics committee of that chamber?

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                p>Generaly speaking.

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