What has Bush and the Republican administration done for the quality of life of our bravest in recent years?
- They assured everyone the Iraq war would end in “weeks rather than months”.
- VA staff ordered to avoid diagnosing returning heroes with PTSD in order to save money! [This is beyond the pale – I get a very visceral, disgusted reaction every time I think about this.]
- 1,000 Iraq veterans attempt suicide each month. Or at least 1,000 attempts are reported – how many go unreported?
- 18 military veterans succeed in killing themselves each day, 5 of whom are under the care of the VA.
- Burdened troops with 3, 4, sometimes 5 deployments to combat.
- Extended tours from 12 months to 15 months.
- 60,000 troops who completed contractual obligations have been stop lossed, meaning forced back into involuntary service.
- Soldiers and families have been forced to buy and ship to Iraq basic equipment like body armor and walkie-talkies because the government was too cheap to spend the money, even though they have no problem spending $800M per week on corrupt contractors.
- Soldiers lost sign up bonuses because they weren’t valid if the soldier is injured in the first month.
- Soldiers made responsible for paying for new helmets when old helmets were lost in battle.
- One soldier who lost his helmet was sued for $12,000, even though he had massive brain damage.
- Hired contractors like KBR who gouge the soldiers with $45 six-packs of Iraqi-produced coke while providing contaminated water.
- The wholesale selling out and exploitation of Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch with fabricated, pro-administration propaganda for political and recruiting gain.
- Wounded soldiers being warehoused in the mold-infested crack den-like conditions of Walter Reed.
- Crippling red tape for wounded soldiers needing medical benefits.
- Parents draining life’s savings, 401(k)s going dead broke to pay for wounded soldier’s hospital care.
- Previously healthy young men sent to their wedding severely burned and disfigured.
- [Added 5/27] “Nearly a third of female veterans say they were sexually assaulted or raped while in the military, and 71 percent to 90 percent say they were sexually harassed by the men with whom they served.”
- [Added 5/28 ] Service of LGBT folks worthless in the eyes of the Pentagon; two LGBT service members fired each day. But felons are serving in record numbers – who a soldier loves or sleeps with is more important to the brass than a soldier’s character.
What the hell are we asking of these people?
This is too much. If we set aside the arguments of the war being fraudulent and discussion of the current mission’s worth for just a minute, can most people see that we have failed these men and women in almost every conceivable way? How can you ask a young person to put their life in harm’s way in Iraq and Afghanistan but not guarantee that soldier the basic security of free access to the best health care this country can offer and a livable disability pension? How can any soldier have the trust and the confidence to seek the mental health and psychiatric care they need when their own government told caregivers to intentionally misdiagnose soldiers in order to save a few bucks? How do soldiers not look at the taxpayer-funded opulence of KBR, Haliburton, and Blackwater and feel betrayed by the nickel-and-dime games played with military health benefits? How much does the government value the actual person behind the uniform?
Voices on the right love to pay lip service to the exalted position of veterans in our society; but when a Republican administration is charged with looking after our loved ones in the military, it performs disgracefully. Furthermore, Republican leaders Bush and McCain balked at the idea of a modest revamp of the GI Bill that called for an extra 0.4% in the pay raise and extra benefits for college. I sit here writing, speechless. The government is abandoning people they sent into gruesome, traumatizing conditions; why aren’t these people shown how much they are valued? And I don’t mean shown using verbal platitudes or holiday parades, I’m speaking in terms of addressing their material conditions and knocking down all road blocks to personal security in combat, to medical care, to mental health, and financial security for those who come back injured allowing them the freedom to pursue the best life possible.
A Republican vote this year sends the clear message that you tolerate the Bush & Co-inflicted conditions endured by many soldiers. How can anyone who values our service men and women reward this abhorrently bad and indefensible behavior by Republican leadership with a vote for four more years of Republican presidency? I know McCain is a veteran and all, but he represents the party who created the conditions that allowed these policies and behaviors to flourish. As a conservative, we can fully expect McCain, a war hawk who sees Iraq going on for at least 4 more years, to appoint and hire people who subscribe to the same philosophies and policies of the last 8 years. Why would you reward the people responsible for failing our soldiers and their families with the chance run things for another four years?
If I’ve ever seen it.
I disagree with that utterly. American treatment of its troops under this Vice President is abysmal. It’s horrific, and clear grounds for impeachment.
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p>But in this country, there is no — absolutely no — such thing as a “case for assassination”.
While I agree that the way in which our veterans are being treated when they’ve come home from our illegal war on Iraq by the G. W. Bush Administration is by far the worst in our history, it was also true during our war in Indo-China, as well.
One or two of the annotated comments at the beginning of the post posses validity a couple more have one or two facets that bear merit. Many of these points bear zero relevance to fact, some are taken out of out current national defense conext viz a vis out armed forces since WWII.
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p>Who can we thank for some of the abysmal treatment of out veterans? The US Congress, The American people per se, every president from Lyndon Johnson forward, excepting Ronald Reagan and to a degree GHW Bush. Some of the most egregious felons are Tom Hadyn, Jerry Rubin, John Kerry, Jane Fonda, Joe Bangert.
They collectively are poisonnonning the American public against the men and women who serve in uniform and willingly sacrifice their lives for the undeserving.
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p>The people that dwell for hours and days on BMG and daily kos et al should periodically scrutinize military sites and blogs and read what the growing army of veterans in USA and returning Iraqi/Afghanistan troops have to say about not so much our physical country, but those who inhabit it. There is a growing sentiment of “US” and “THEM”. This all stems from the abolishment of the “Draft”—thank you Ted Kennedy. Like Charlie Rangle has stated repeatedly, no one in USA gives a crap who has been or who will get killed in a armed conflict—because Americans no longer have a dog in that fight. They keep their precious Johny home, and let some other poor kid take the hit. To Americans, military service is no longer a duty or even an option. It’s for “poor” kids to use as “operation bootstrap” The military is a weapon that can be used against the incumbent president be he/she be a elephant or an ass. The military is now America’s whipping post. They can’t fight back. (that day may be coming to a halt sooner that America thinks).
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p>Does anyone think that the “dissent”, so called, since Vietnam would have been tolerated during any conflict since the American Revolution? There would have been hangings. Go to other countries like Russia, Great Britain, Australia, Canada, Germany, Japan and Italy and attempt to urinate on the veterans.
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p>I spent twenty eight years in military service. I have been involved in two wars/armed conflicts. I rose in rank to the highest enlisted grade. I have had the manifest best fortune of being repeatedly under enemy fire and not so much as a scratch while many comrades lay dead around me.
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p>I came home to a country that essentially told me to “get lost”. My comrades were pilloried, besmirched, and smeared by John Kerry and Joseph Bangert. Now today, between the media, John Murtha and other celebrated politicians, my comrades are being arrested , subject to courts martial, and imprisonned for simply carrying out their soldierly duties. The political hack flag officers of the Clinton adminstration decimated the military into a hollow shell. They cut back on every benefit they could imagine for the enlsyted troops, built substandard housing, reduced medical care for dependents, reduced the numbers of warm bodies for redundancy, and functionally crippled our beloved services. The current sad excuse in the White House did little to imrove the situation.
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p>So at some time in the future when America is in peril and there are too few, ill equipped, ill led troops to defend us , think back to Johnson, Carter, Ford, Clinton, GW Bush. The poisonners of our society: The Murtha’s, Kerry, Kennedy, Fonda, Bangert, Left Wing Idealogues. Those among us in our society who will not devote a drop of sweat, a minute of time, or any contribution to military service or even public servise—here or abroad. America is not at war, America is at the mall.
…is military service a pre-requisite for talking about veterans’ issues? I’d also point out nothing in my post criticizes the military or people in uniform, but thanks for a classic MCRD off-topic rant about reviving the draft and “Left Wing ideologues” using the military as a whipping post.
which is attacking your main point with very good reason. Your post is essentially “look at all this stuff G-dub has done, so vote democratic and it will stop!”
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p>MCRD is pointing out that we can vote democratic until the cows come home and this stuff will not change. It’s not a partisan issue, because both parties have their grubby little fingerprints all over these problems.
to argue with tblade’s very detailed post about the current treatment of the military, so I’m not sure the burden has yet fallen on tblade to refute anything.
…if that’s what MCRD actually meant, he could have just said it.
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p>And you’re right it’s not a partisan issue. But the fact remains the buck stops with Bush, his administration, and any one he or his administration installed into positions of power over these issues.
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p> By putting both parties on equal par, you concede the point that that Republicans can claim no authority on veterans’ issues and will perform no better then the Dems. You are admitting that Republicans deserve no advantage in the veteran voting demographic, which runs contrary to the recent notion that Republicans should have strong vet support.
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p>I agree that Republicans don’t deserve veteran support. And examining military contributions and support of Ron Paul and Barack Obama, many in the military seem to agree, too. Tell me, what have the Republicans done in the past 8 years to warrant loyalty from veterans? I don’t expect Barack Obama and the Dems to wave a magic wand it make it all better, but I think they deserve to take a crack at the problem. I trust Obama to set and follow through with his veterans’ agenda far more than I trust McCain who couldn’t be bothered to support (or vote on) the recent GI Bill.
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p>What evidence from the last eight years can you point to that says four more years of Republican philosophy (which is what? stay the course?) will provide the best treatment and care for the troops? What pitch would you make to active or retired military folks and their families on behalf of John McCain regarding the issues raised in this post?
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p>All things being equal, I do expect more troops to have better health under President Obama because he favors ending the war and he does not want to “bomb bomb bomb Iran”, unlike McCain who has no vision to end this indefinite war beats the drum of confrontation with Iran. Obama wins even if he does jack for the vets at home because he reduces the number of future injured vets by removing more of them from harm’s way.
No one wants to answer my question:
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p>?
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p>Is McCain’s positions that indefensible? To further complicate matter, Time reports:
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p>I’d also emphasize that McCain advocates sending even more troops into the Iraq meat grinder, while Senator Obama wants an orderly withdrawal.
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p>So McCain wants to escalate the conflict and produce more dead and wounded soldiers whom he only votes for funding 30% of the time and doesn’t want these soldiers educating themselves in order to build a better life for themselves and their families. Support the troops!
What have you done other than complain from the sanctity of your keyboard to make the quality of life better for a soldier, sailor airman/woman or Marine?
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p>Spend some time at a hospital visiting somebody requiring comfort?
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p>Donate time or money so packages are sent to the heroes serving overseas?
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p>Offer a ride to a wife or family member of a person serving?
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p>Or just say thanks to somebody you know served in the military. It does not matter when they served in conflict of peace time.
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p>My guess is none of the above.
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p>Memorial Day is a day of remembrance for the people that paid the ultimate price for us to sit in freedom.
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p>That point seems to be lost on this audience.
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p>If the majority of you folks were around in 1941, we would be speaking Japanese or German now.
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p>Don’t complain about the government policies treating the service people. Get off your backside and do something for the folks serving. There are plenty of opportunities if you actually care.
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Your guess, as it applies to me, is wrong.
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p>Auf wiedersehen.
Arlington works with a group called Local Heros. See:
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p>http://mass-localheroes.org/
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p>We fund raise, collect, send things to make life easier. Put your time and money – some of it at least to a local organization supporting the troops and vets with all of it done by volunteers and going to real troops and real people.
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p>So, yes, you can DO something even though you cannot change the big problems all at once.
I’ve been donating to the USO, while wondering if it was the most effective way to help.
That’s right, for not supporting an ill-conceived and executed war and pointing out that our veterans aren’t getting the support that they deserve, it logically follows that we would have rolled over for Hitler in ’41.
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p>Volunteering to help veterans is fantastic. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s the government’s job, too, and it’s shameful when the help is insufficient, or worse.
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My family and to an even greater extent my wife’s family have many many servicemen. We’ve done all of the four things you’ve listed.
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p>No matter how much we do, our single biggest contribution to the military is our tax dollars. The same goes for most Americans. Our money supports the troops, or fails to support the troops. Our money trains the troops or fails to train the troops. Our money protects the troops or fails to protect the troops. Our money heals the troops or fails to heal the troops.
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p>Since we do care about the troops, shouldn’t we work to make sure that our money is in fact supporting, training, protecting, and healing the troops?
with this bullshit.
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p>The veteran/chicken hawk rhetoric has gotten a bit deep here, and I can understand the tentative footing you might be tempted to worry about.
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p>But I’ll tell you this: as one of the only liberal female veterans posting here, I say BRAVO! to what you’ve written today (and most every other day). You are sensible, clear-headed thinker who is much needed on this site, and I support you in refusing to be cowed by the bullies who hang here.
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p>Beware the veteran who bloviates about patriotism, liberalism, or service. Keep on keepin’ on.
I’d add two things: there is a strong contingency of Iraq/Afganistan veterans groups who speak out on the topics I raised, so lest anyone think it’s just “moonbat bloggers”. Among them are the familiar Iraq Veterans Against the War and Vote Vets.
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p>Also, if we ignore my editorialized second half of the comment, the first part of my comment is mostly a link round-up from very traditional main stream news sources like 60 Minutes, The Boston Globe and the AP. No fringe agenda sites or opinion blogs, just old-school reporting. People are free to wade through the information and form their own conclusion, but I don’t know what other conclusion one could draw other than that our “Support the troops” government has crapped all over military people since 9/11.
Just ruminating on the key board re my observations over the last forty odd years since I enlisted..
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p>Some of the cooments here I find amusing as people who have not a protons worth of knowledge re the military quote left wing media hacks (Time magazine) and politicians (John Murtha) about what is right and wrong with our military. Case in point I would venture to guess that most folks here couldn’t explain the essential differences btween the marine Corps and the Army. Nor could they differentiate between the purposes of the USAF viz a vis the US Navy Air Wing. Nor could they expound on the military pay system or the difference between officer and enlisted. Yet all are experts on the military. How many here read Proceedings or the MC Gazette or any other DoD publication? It would be like me reading the Lancet or NEJM and going into Mass General and telling physicians how to cure cancer.
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p>Generally I sway between bemusement and irritation. Most often I read, shake my head and then go out and do something constructive.
(1) Apparently we must only quote certain MCRD-approved sources. Note that MCRD rarely cites external proof for anything he posts so we have no model to follow on who we are “allowed” to cite.
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p>(2) No one is claiming expertise regarding the military.
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p>(3) When something is obviously wrong, like this Administration’s treatment of military personnel, it begs the question to say, “You have to know more! You have to know more! You aren’t qualified to have an opinion!” To make the claim “you have to know more!” you must indicate what needs to be known. Otherwise, you’re just making lame excuses.
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p>(4) Some of the people making the same points as tblade do know more and do read DoD publications.
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p>(5) It comes as a surprise that Time Magazine is full of “left-wing media hacks”.
Make an ass out of you.
Sweeping negative generalizations do not make a substantive arguement.
So, I’ll go ahead and make an assumption of my own. I’ll assume your opinion of “most folks” is wrong, as it is in my case.
are you currently being paid to blog? No offense- just a question.
…based on the amount of times s/he mentions:
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p>Seriously. Go back and check MCRD comments; I swear MCRD isn’t a person but a spam bot programmed to repeat the variations of the same key pre-programmed phrases. I knew as soon as I posted that I’d get an MCRD comment mentioning John Kerry and people who don’t serve. Amazing.
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…for mentioning his experience working in the medical field.
…his brief experience working with incompetent/corrupt town officials.
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p>Email me for a personalized MCRD-O card.
… looked into the possibility that MCRD is actually four people sharing one user account? (one fore each initial?)
with four discrete personalities, in which case his user ID should probably be something like SIBL. ;^)
I’ve spent my entire adult life in public service and what time I have left I continue to volunteer.
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p>I write what I write because you folks sit around re inforcing what each other has to say about this and that. Only occasionally does someone way in and say ” Gee, maybe we have it all wrong.” Old age also has the advantage of casting things in a different light. Few things are what they seem. When you confront an issue, always keep in mind that the problem (every problem) is multi faceted and there are many solutions.
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p>Old age has taught me several things. One is no politician is to be trusted.There are things in life that are black and white—most things aren’t. Every pencil has an eraser and most things can be administratively adjusted. Believe little of what you hear and read unless you have multiple and varied sources. No matter who writes what—treat it with caution— They have an agenda and an axe to grind.
To answer your question—am I being paid to blog? The answer is no—that’s one thing that I have never received recompense for–writing that is. I enjoy sticking my nose where it probably doesn’t belong, because at times in my youth someone was kind enough to to point out to me that I had my head where it was never intended to be, and I profited from their kindness–and sometimes not so kind but at leat I derived a positive learning experience from it.
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p>The most brilliant man I ever knew was my grandfather. He was a British Tommy with the Royal Army in France in WWI. He would tell me stories on how to survive, no matter the adversity, when I was a very young boy. The most important was: You can learn something from anyone.
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p>Or blogging about it.
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A particular gripe of the soldier is the blatant costs of helping the contractors make money. For instance, a cook’s helper for KBR makes about $60,000/yr., tax free. Military cooks are on guard duty, so as to create a need for KBR people. You can bet KBR makes a profit on each cook’s helper far above $60k.
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p>Then there is the nonsense of a “coalition of the willing”. Maybe a “coalition of the mercenary”. The Commonwealth soldier from Britain, Canada or Australia serving in the Mideast with the rank of corporal is paid by the US of A as an American Army Captain(+/- $5k/month). A US Army corporal makes about 1,800/month. Whatever their rank, foreigh soldiers are paid a generous bonus by the US taxpayer.
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p>Marines in Afganistan are guarding the poppy fields and fighting the Taliban that is trying to secure that crop. Why are we protecting the poppy fields? Is there any truth to the rumor that the CIA is behind the drug trade?
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p>But, don’t look for any changes. Both sides of the aisle make too much big money on the blood of a few young Americans that give so much of themselves.
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p>God help America.
Afriend of mine has been deployed twice. “They” wanted him to deploy a third time, and he said he could not afford to. That even though he is an office [and an attorney, and JAG and would be paid $95,000.00]. He was told that he would be offered $140,000.00 to come do the same work as a private contractor – and a $70,000.00 bonus – and “you won’t have to worry about that Geneva s— any more”. I kid you not. I had this conversation.
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p>Now tell me, MCRD, is THAT what you ant America to be about?
But you are either grossly uninformed or you are premeditatively stating inaccurate facts.
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p>FYI to everyone here. Many years ago almost all branches of the US Armed Forces stopped KP duty and have very few mess cooks. The armed forces made the arguement to congress that it was cheaper to have vendors provide meals.
To have a jet mech, an artilleryman, an intelligence analyst on mess duty didn’t make sense re cost effectiveness. Personally I thin KP/Mess duty builds character as does guard duty. You will also note that the USAF has had civilian guards at their gates for thirty years.
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p>The USA does not pay the armed forces of other countries.
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p>Look on the web for the pay scale for for an E-4. It’s the same for every branch of the service. When you tally up, base pay, Comm Rats/BAQ, hostile fire pay, seperation pay,
overseas pay, flight pay, etc etc it is considerably more.
Lightiris says she is a vet—-common lightiris—help me out. What did you get in your paychech before taxes. Also anyone serving in a hostile fire zone—their pay and re-enlistment bonus is tax free.
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p>Marines in Afghanistan are most certainly not guarding poppy fields. They may not be razing them, but they are not guarding them. The marines have only one job in Afghanistan: Kill People.
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p>The “coalition of the willing” is a product of Bill Clinton, Clinton eviscerated the military. I am one of his victims. I wanted to do thirty years. Sorry. Everyone over E-7 and twenty years—- see ya later.
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p>Oh—-The lack or failure to post links (that some whine about) as my profs used to tell me, “do your own research, that’s how you learn”. I have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. There are only so many hours in a day.
I remember back in the day that the South Koreans (the White Horse Division was stationed next to my unit) in Viet Nam were paid in US greenbacks. That’s why they came. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “allies” are paid the same way in this war. And the consortium of RMK-BRJ was paying $12,000/yr (worth about $120,000 in today’s money) for unskilled labor to come and work in Viet-Nam. So a $60,000/yr cook helper doesn’t seem out of line. Gives me flashbacks when read the war news.
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p> “Everytime I read the paper, them ol’ feelin’s come on. We’re waist deep in the Big Muddy and the Big Fool says to push on.”
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p>As far as the poppies grow, well, try this.
I just clicked through TPM and found a round-up of Iraq veteran suicide issue. Here are the links:
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p>Editor & Publisher:
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p>Reuters:
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p>Las Vegas Sun:
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p>McClatchy:
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p>Fort Worth Star-Telegram:
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from training accidents, murder, suicide, auto accidents, air accidents etc. Think the number is approx 50,000.
This is without a single round fired at anyone.
…so that makes it ok.
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p>Thanks for clearing that up. Someone alert the media and tell them to stop covering the suicide stories because MCRD says that 50,000 troops died in 1976 outside of combat.
You could go back to 1996, but I suppose that doesn’t quite tell the story you want, does it?
deliberate and calculated intentional criminal negligence on your poll thingy. Don’t be leading people around with zombinalic mainstream media press/propaganda type shit.
Duly noted.
is apparently responsible for killing our troops on their own bases. I just heard a story about this on CNN just before reading this post. Oh yeah, aren’t Bush & Cheney & Co. wholly owned subsidiaries of KBR?
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p>Halliburton/KBR no-bid contracts – money well spent.
As old as time. As feeding Civil War soldiers to make money. And just as wrong.
The pitiful little veterans’ Webb GI Bill just passed the senate. It faces the veto of the Whitehouse “puppet leader” of the free world. The Winter Soldier testimony was ignored by the MSM. The government finances the wars with borrowed funds. The drumbeat of war with Iran beats incessantly. Is anyone fool enough to believe conscription won’t be on the table for the lame duck politicians in November? And yet 40% of the public still trusts the government.
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p>Americans are either overly trusting or stupid.
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p>The Generals are indeed winning. General Dynamics, General Electric, General Motors. The winners will continue to prey on the losers.
ONLY veterans since 9/11!
That’s not why he didn’t support it. He specifically stated that he was concerned that it would reduce the number of re-enlistments, reducing noncommissioned officer ranks by 16%. He went on to call the NCOs the “backbone of all the services.”
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p>His proposal offered fewer dollars and tied the number of dollars to years of service.
I heard McCain this morning that he opposed the bill because it did not treat All veterans equally. However this now appears to be revisionist because the ceiling has fallen down on him. I am puzzled why he said something so inane that having a degree was a disincentive for NCO’s. Granted most officers are college graduates in The Army, navy and USAF. However, the Marine Corps looks to its NCO’s for its future officers. The current I MEF commander was prior enlisted, Chest Puller was prior enlisted and most of the most famous general officers in the Marine Corps were prior enlisted. Having a degree doesn’t mean squat. A lot of people I know and many officers in the service couldn’t find their own ass with both hands.
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p>For McCain to say something like that was imprudent and foolish.
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p>Again—I stand corrected.
I missed this one on my list. I’ve added it above, too. From The New York Times:
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p>Tell me again, MCRD, why I need to be able to “expound on the military pay system or the difference between officer and enlisted” to know that this is abhorrent?
I apologize for the misleading and ungrammatical subject heading; I should be more careful typing when bleary-eyed tired. It should read “33% Female Veterans Raped or Sexually Assaulted”.
If you or anyone else takes this at face value—-then I don’t know what to say.
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p>Having women serving in theatre was imprudent for many, many reasons. That is an “I” statement so don’t waste your time.
Or just some of them? And I guess the men who raped/assaulted these women aren’t at fault because the fact that women were there in the first place was “imprudent”.
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p>Let’s not bother to create a military culture that keeps women safe from predatory males, let’s just dismiss and delegitimize these little ladies’ claims, blame the “imprudent” politically correct culture, and walk away with our backs turned. Classic.
more here and here. served 18 years honorably? doesn’t matter, you’re service is for shit if you’re an lgbt American.
I missed an obvious one. Thanks for pointing this out.
Me engaging in conversation with folks here about this issue is an impossible task, because it is impossible for me to explain the multifaceted dynamics of a group of men in a daily fight for survival and in seeking out and killing the enemy. From my own personal observations, after being in combat for a period of approx six months (depending on the individual of course) one’s entire frame of reference regarding damn near everything takes a radical shift.
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p>I have stated this before and I will do so again. When you are in a combat zone and most or all people are walking around with a myriad assortment of instantly lethal weapons, it is prudent to mind one’s own business. You do not engage in behavior that will piss people off. You do not engage in behavior (especially once outside the wire) that will endanger peoples lives. You do not engage in behavior that will irritate certain people. Why? Because when you engage in such behavior and you catch that person, or persons, on a bad day, or in a firefight, or if they are terrified, they may just kill you. They may kill you because they are pissed at you, because they fear you, because they perceive you are needlessly endangering their life (lives) or they are simply sick and tired of looking at your face. In war—-shit happens. Of course it’s against the law to kill. Obviously that will stop such unacceptable behavior. But when someone is pointing the business end of a rifle at your face or in the middle of your back(with or without the safety on) be sure to remind them their behavior is unlwaful and they could in trouble big time if they pull the trigger.
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p>It is interesting to note that the USMC rotates folks out after six months and the US Army tour can last from a year to a year and a half. Also note that the USAF does not generally allow any USAF personnel to carry any kind of inanimate object that could be remotely construed as a weapon lest they injure themselves or others.
your concern is based on an assumption that only gay people would do things to endanger themselves or their comrades. therein lies the error in your concerns. it is a common stereotype that gay people MUST have sex – lots of it frequently. you do lgbt soldiers a great dishonor by assuming that they can’t comport themselves are not as dedicated as their hetero colleagues. i guess i have to remind you that there always have been gay people in the military. there current;y are many gay people in the military. they have served/do serve just as honorably as the next person.
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p>actually, maybe gay people have served more honorably than the average hetero. when we hear of soldiers raping the locals, it’s always girls that those true-blue manly marines go after. and since gay people are under constant threat of being outed and ousted, i’ll wager that they are much more dilligent than the average ratfucker. certainly they are more dedicated, or they wouldn’t put up with the humiliation of being forced to lie and be treated as half people.
Just being in existence, standing there mute, without twitching may initiate problems. There are folks in and out of the military that are terminally pissed off. Put them in a combat theatre with a weapon and it becomes even more probelematic.
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p>As I said—unless you have been there—you will never be able to appreciate what it’s like in active combat or in an imminent combat enviroment.
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p>Laurel—you have an axe to grind in this matter—so you are less than impartial. I only stated and I will agin restate: I only think that the powers that be developed this policy ONLY for the well being of the gays. The other guys aren’t going to catch a round. And on top of that—there are a whole lotta ways to get rid of someone. Like making them walk point going into a “hot” zone. Someone’s gonna do it, and ones life expectancy is dramatically reduced whilst someone is thirty meters ahead all by their lonesome.
i guess you haven’t heard that gays are serving openly in the military in britain, netherlands and israel. i never hear of them being murdered by twitchy comrades, have you? or are you saying that is it just the us military that is composed of mindless savages? also, many american soldiers know that their comrades are gay. again, where are the reports of the slaughter you promise? hm?
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p>henny penny
… that either we have to admit that these other militarys produce superiorly disciplined soldiers, or that MCRD is wrong.
… soldiers can’t control themselves and follow orders not to kill fellow soldiers. Don’t irritate them because they might kill you?
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p>Speechless.
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p>”Of course it’s against the law to kill. Obviously that will stop such unacceptable behavior.” Unless its a soldier being irritated by standing next to a gay guy?
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p>No faith in a soldier’s ability to control themselves or follow the law or orders?
Ever hear of the term “fratricide”.
Ever hear of the term “fragging”. It’s not a hypothesis, or a hypothetical. It is something that happens.
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p>If you want to experience the matter first hand go into the Marine Corps or the US Army and ask for “combat arms” as in The Grunts.
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p>The USCG, USN (excepting SEALS) USAF, really don’t have this as an issue, simply because it is not their mission to be armed 24/7 and engage in face to face killing of the enemy.
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p>Pure comedy. That earned you a six for making me laugh out loud.
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p>So if US soldiers are killing each other because they are “sick and tired of looking at [another soldier’s] face”, how are they treating the people of Iraq?
I stated that these things happen, and people go way out of their way to avod grating on other peoples nerves or engaging in behavior that may jeopardize others safety.
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p>Case in point. An American combatant was put in a sandbagged emplacement with an Iraqi soldier at a roadside checkpoint. They were taking periodic sniper fire. The Iraqi soldier kept lighting up cigarettes. To a sniper—this is like putting a spotlight on the target on a dark night. The American told the Iraqi to cease and desist. The Iraqi persisted. The American stuck a K Bar in him from his navel to his throat.
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p>Get the message?