Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

Joe Biden open thread

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Update: Holy smokes, Obama's here? Is that bad luck, like seeing the bride before the wedding? đŸ˜€ Updated update: Not at all: America is the bride, and she's about to be reborn.

Great stuff. Biden's compelling. A terrific night, overall.

 

Go Joe!

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  2. very strong talking about issues people are having, freudian slip, calling John McCain, George …. nice

  3. Did you all catch his almost saying George Bush when he meant John McCain?

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    p>I’m still waiting for a really good line.  I know he can do it.  One of the moments in the primary debates that sticks in my memory is when he said that Giuliani constructs every sentence with three parts of speech: a noun, a verb, and 9/11!

  4. he said something like “John supports a gajillion dollars in new taxes for corporations.”  I’m pretty sure he meant “tax cuts.”  Oopsie.

  5. Either I heard that wrong or he misspoke badly

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    p>Now its 400 Billion in tax breaks?

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    p>OK probably I’m getting it wrong no way he screwed those up that badly.  Here comes the refrain!

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    p>thats not change!
    thats more of the same!

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    p>

        • Read this:

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          p>Says Zimmermann, who is mentioned in the article:

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          p>

          In his 23 August opinion piece in CNet, Declan McCullagh wrote on Joe Biden’s suitability as the Democratic VP nominee, Declan quotes me, creating the impression I criticized Biden for some legislation that Biden introduced in 1991. Declan’s quote from me is out of context because it does not make it clear that I never mentioned Biden in my original quote at all when I wrote about Senate Bill 266. Second, Declan’s quote is drawn from remarks I wrote in 1999. Declan seems to be trying to draft me in his opposition to Biden, and, by extension, makes it seem as if I am against the Democratic ticket. I take issue with this.

          When someone serves in the Senate for 30 years, we have to judge them by their whole body of work. Much has happened since 1991. I don’t know what Biden’s position would be today on the issue of encryption, but I would imagine it has changed, because I can’t think of any politicians today who would try to roll back our hard-won gains in our right to use strong crypto. In fact, considering the disastrous erosion in our privacy and civil liberties under the current administration, I feel positively nostalgic about Biden’s quaint little non-binding resolution of 1991.

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          p>Zimmerman wrote PGP (Pretty Good Privacy), an encryption method.

  6. that we are less secure now when there have been no terrorist attacks here since 9/11?  the “resurgence” of terrorists in afghanistan?  What, since Bush kicked them all out???  Oh for Pete’s sake this guy can talk sometimes but don’t count on him to make much sense..

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    p>

    • to the amount of terrorist attacks on the same scale we had prior?  Huh?  Never understood that argument.  You should read up on Afghanistan.

    • referring to the mountains “between Afghanistan and Pakistan”.

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      p>”Scuse me, Senator, they’re either in Afghanistan, or they’re in Pakistan.

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      p>Get an atlas.

        • I pointed out a geography gaffe by world affairs “expert” Joe Biden.

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          p>You brought up McCain.

          • It’s not a gaffe.  It’s commonly accepted parlance to talk about things on a border as being “between” the two entities involved, even though, technically, yes, the mountains are actually in both countries (mostly Afghanistan).

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            p>Google “wall between us and mexico” and get back to me on what it means.  Would not any wall be in the U.S. or Mexico?  

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            p>Trying to make a big deal out of this is like trying to quibble about the meaning of “is”.

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            p>Your quibble reminded me of McCain’s much, much worse gaffe; at least Pakistan and Afghanistan do, in fact, share a border!

    • By your logic, we weren’t any less secure before 9/11 given the amount of terrorist attacks in the US.

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      p>Also, nota bene, there haven’t been any terrorist attacks since Jay-Z released his album The Blueprint. Coincidence? I think not. It must mean that Jay-Z’s music has kept al-Qaeda from launching successful attacks on the US.  We should all be singing H-to-the-zzo-V-to-the-Izzay in order to keep those terrorists at bay!

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      p>The we haven’t been attacked since 9/11, ergo we must be safer than we were 8 years ago is one of the dumbest arguments going.  

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      p>It’s further worth noting that in February of 2008 Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell said that the Taliban has regained control of 10% of Afghanistan.  So I’d like to know when did “Bush kicked them all out” and how’s that working out? Especially since the Bush administration and the Pentagon and everyone else (even McCain has come around) has been saying that the Taliban is resurging in Afghanistan.

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      p>I mean, fighting between the Taliban and coalition forces have been have risen this year. It’s not really a secret so I don’t get the quotes around “resurgence” or the question mark. Unless you haven’t been paying attention.  

              • I count zero. You obviously can’t answer my question and you cannot state as a fact that any terror plot has been disrupted by wiretapping.

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                p>The links you provide are basically just regurgitations of a White House press release, not independent reporting. What number of those threats were credible? Ried? Not stopped by thegovernment, he was thwarted by regular folks. Fort Dix? That group was like the Keystone Terrorists  they were so inept. Most of these alleged “threats” give too much credit to the government for the alleged competence and hides the fact that most of these caught terorists are no more capable of carrying terror plots out then common street thugs.  I mean the Miami ring cited in the Heratige foundation link had no actual al Qaeda contacts, no weapons and no means of carrying out attacks – they were found with friggin’ paintball guns and had to beg their undercover FBI, whom they though was al-Qaeda, handler for food money! How can America surive the onslaught of millitant paintball extremists, lol?

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                p>It may be too easy to pretend there is no danger, but it’s even easier to pretend that the danger is far greater than it is and to pretend that every load of shit the Bush administration feeds us about terrorism is true. How can people who say “don’t believe the hype of Obama” out of one side of thier mouth be so gullible about the terrorism hype propagated by Bush and his cronies?

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                p>http://www.rollingstone.com/po…
                http://www.crooksandliars.com/…

                • Why on Earth would you think that all terror attacks have been thwarted by regular people?

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                  p>Do you honestly think we live in some kind of farce-movie where the “good guys” can’t ever ever get their head out of their ass?

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                  p>I agree that the govt sucks ALOT ALOT and screws up as much as could be believable but nonetheless I think you are foolish to make the case that neither wiretapping nor the government had any significant role.  Where’s your evidence, I wonder?

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                  p>Dream on tblade.

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                  p>

                • Never said “all terror attacks have been thwarted by regular people”, so that part of your argument is out.

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                  p>And I can’t be foolish to say that wire tapping has had any significant role in stopping terrorists because you have failed to furnish any sliver of evidence that it has. Seriously, what evidence so you have that would lead anyone to believe wire taping has thwarted terrorists? It’s a direct question and should be easy to answer.  

                • have any direct evidence in either direction, so we have to rely on our judgement.

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                  p>So what does yours say?  Is there a decent chance that wiretapping has done any good whatsoever?  Or is it incredibly convenient that your political opposition to same coincides with a total failure of same?

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                  p>

                • Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.

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                  p>I have no direct evidence that George Bush is not a disguised space alien sent here by a race of peoples who are getting ready to conquer Earth. SoI guess it’s reasonable to believe that rumor could be true.

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                  p>The burden of proof does not lie upon the skeptic in this case. You made the claim, you back it up. Three times above I asked a direct question, and you’ve failed to answer. This tells me that you simply wish your position to be true, facts be damned. It’s called making stuff up.

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                  p>

                  Is there a decent chance that wiretapping has done any good whatsoever?

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                  p>I see no evidence to show that it has. And neither have you, apparently.  

          • People who go hunting with dead-eye Dick should whistle when they’re nearby him – might help to keep buckshot out of your face!

    • It has been the policy of Bush to:

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      p>1.  Tie up the American army in Iraq, and overthrow the existing government there, even though Iraq has a sizable Shia population.

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      p>2.  This has had the effect of dramatically increasing the power and influence of Iran, a state sponsor of terrorism, in the region.  Iran is now the a regional power equal to Saudi Arabia, and continues to rise.

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      p>3.  Fail to come up with any means of preventing the aforesaid Iran (see #2, above) from acquiring nuclear weapons other than combat operations, which are unlikely to succeed in any event, and probably cannot be achieved in the first place because the military is otherwise occupied (see #1, above).

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      p>It is almost as if Bush has been taking instructions from Tehran.

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      p>Republicans are too busy thumping their chests and grunting to notice that their leadership is either (i) treasonous, or (ii) grossly incompetent.

        • I always fight hardest with those with whom I disagree the least.  I’m generally sympathetic to Democratic goals as opposed to Republican goals, it is always the means for achieving same that keep me on the outside.

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          p>The 2008 GOP is so far off the map that disagreement is no longer an adequate description of my view of that party.  I am somewhat skeptical of their goals, and the last eight years have made clear that their means of achieving same are unworthy of the United States of America.

  7. Some good stuff, but I have to say I was a tad disappointed.  But Biden is a pro; I’m sure he’ll work out the kinks, clean up the delivery, and make it work.

    • I really expected that to go alot longer, and have some kind of a memorable thing to it!

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      p>If you give it a B- you can imgaine what I give it.

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      p>In the past I’ve sometimes thought Biden to be an outstanding speaker, that sucked,

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      p>Uh oh here comes barack.

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      p>

  8. OMG Obama now to be honest I haven’t really listened to this guy’s major swoon-o-rama speeches but he seems like a damned cheese ball to me!  Holy crap!

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    p>Is anyone buying this fakery?

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    p>Sorry for my skepticism but this seems about as genuine as John Edwards always has (to me) (perhaps not to you)

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    p>

    • Surprise showing to plug the show tomorrow?  HEY COME SEE US AT INVESCO geez we don’t want to be light of guests (as if that could happen!)

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      p>This whole thing struck me as incredibly weak and insecure and most of all
      amateurish.

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      p>We are family!

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      p>  

  9. you guys make this too easy.  First Obama is going to be annointed on a set which looks like a temple.  Did they remember to put up an altar?

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    p>Now you use the language of Christianity.  Are we all to be born again in Obama.  When we accept him as our personal savior?

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    p>I mean come on.

    • As to the set and all, both parties put on giant infomercial/pep rallies.  You know that, Eabo.

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      p>Frankly, I enjoyed hearing from Barack Obama’s sister, I was impressed by Ted Kennedy’s brass balls [treated for kidney stones but “the show must go on” and there he was]

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      p>I don’t know any of these people personally – do you?  I have to go by what all becomes public and what they say.

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      p>Frankly, I read Obama’s first book, “Dreams of my Father” which was written shortly after he graduated law school, when running for president was unlikely to be on the agenda.

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      p>Very interesting stuff – try it – cheap knocks don’t do you justice.

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      p>My impression from that book helped me take a clear eyed look and I would say Mr. Barack Obama had brass balls as a kid and likely still does now.

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      p>Not exactly born again language, but then I never claimed to walk on water and after being suckered by John Edwards I sure cannot claim omniscience, either.

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      p>As between McCain and Obama, for me it is Obama.  Like every other candidate, both McCain and Obama will have to earn votes one voter at a time.

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      p>And I truly do see Biden as an asset – precious few hidden nooks and crannies in Joe Biden, I think.

    • Maybe he meant reborn like the Phoenix? Does that mean he was appropriating the language of the ancient Egyptians?

    • Clearly, our boy EaBo ‘s never made the homage, nor apparently ever even opened a book.  If he had, he would know that DC is chock-a-block with Greek revival.  Pity the people who don’t educate themselves.  And pity we who must bear their ignorance among us.

    • Where could the Dems have gotten that idea? Oh, yeah! Bush!

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      p>

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      p>http://www.politico.com/blogs/…

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      p>I guess it’s OK if you’re a Republican. Eabo, didn’t you recently title a post using the old proverb about glass houses. You’re not very good at following your own advice, are you?

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