Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

Comments

  1. Like newspapers.

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    p>Like unions.

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    p>Like the majority of the Lexington board of selectmen and half of the endorsed Arlington selectmen.

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    p>”People like Ken Donnelly” is not news.

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    p>And since when are these newspapers “liberal”? All five local papers in the district are owned by Gatehouse Media, who control the Herald.

    1.  I am not a union.

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    p>2.  I am not a special interest [though I think I am special].

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    p>3.  What have you got against Ken that you would put up an incomprehensible and useless poll and sling a silly nick name?

    <

    p>Just wondering.

      • What came first?  Ernie backing Hurd and all the progressives backing Donnelly, or all the progressives back Donnelly and Ernie backs Hurd?

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        p>Either way, unless Ernie lives in the district, not much of an endorsement.

      • Here is your Mass Alliance, about which you are so up in arms:

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        p>So you see, maybe somebody who gets endorsed by them is NOT NECESSARILY A SOCIALIST.

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        p>1199 SEIU
        http://www.1199seiu.org
        877 409 1199
        21 Fellows Street
        Roxbury, MA 02119
        AFSCME Council 93
        http://www.afscmecouncil93.org
        617 367 6000
        8 Beacon Street
        Boston, MA 02108
        Boston Teachers Union
        http://www.btu.org
        617 288 2000
        180 Mount Vernon Street
        Boston, MA 02125
        Clean Water Action
        http://www.cleanwateraction.org/ma/
        617 338 8131
        262 Washington Street #301
        Boston, MA 02108
        Coalition for Social Justice
        http://www.csjorganize.org
        508 982 3108
        56 North Main Street, Suite 403
        Fall River, MA 02720
        Democratic Socialists of America, Boston Chapter
        http://www.dsaboston.org
        617 354 5078
        PO Box 51356
        Boston, MA 02205
        Massachusetts Democratic Future
        massachusetts.yda.org
        MassEquality
        http://www.MassEquality.org
        617 878 2300
        11 Beacon Street, Suite 1125
        Boston, MA 02108
        American Federation of Teachers – Massachusetts
        http://www.aftma.net
        617 423 3342
        38 Chauncey Street, 4th Floor
        Boston, MA 02111
        Mass Gay and Lesbian Political Caucus
        http://www.mglpc.org
        617 248 0776
        PO Box 246, State House
        Boston, MA 02133
        Massachusetts Peace Action
        http://www.masspeaceaction.org
        617 354 2169
        11 Garden Street
        Cambridge, MA 02138
        Massachusetts Teachers Association
        http://www.massteacher.org
        617 742 7950
        20 Ashburton Place
        Boston, MA 02108
        NARAL Pro Choice Massachusetts
        http://www.prochoicemass.org
        617 556 8800
        41 Winter Street, Suite 65
        Boston, MA 02108
        National Association of Social Workers, MA PACE
        http://www.naswma.org
        617 227 9635
        14 Beacon Street, Suite 409
        Boston, MA 02108
        National Organization for Women
        http://www.massnow.org
        617 254 9130
        1105 Commonwealth Ave, Suite 201
        Boston, MA 02215
        Neighbor to Neighbor, Massachusetts
        http://www.n2nma.org
        617 723 6866
        8 Beacon Street, 4th Floor
        Boston, MA 02108
        Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts
        http://www.pplm.org
        617 616 1600
        1055 Commonwealth Ave
        Boston, MA 02215
        Progressive Democrats of Massachusetts
        http://www.progressivedems.org
        PO Box 893
        Framingham, MA 01701
        SEIU, Local 509
        http://www.seiu509.org
        617 924 8161
        400 Talcott Avenue
        Watertown, MA 02472
        Sierra Club Massachusetts
        http://www.sierraclubmass.org
        617 423 5775
        100 Boylston Street
        Boston, MA 02116
        UAW Region 9A
        http://www.uaw.org/about/where/region9a.html
        781 329 7749
        270 Bridge Street, Suite 101
        Dedham, MA 02026

        • why are the Democratic Socilaists of America in the club?

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          p>MassAlliance demands candidates seek their endorsement and share “all their values”. What does that mean?

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          p>DSA state on its web site its goal is for open socilaism in politics.

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          p>Donnelly should answer for this.

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          p>Mass Alliance members should answer for this. But the Boston Teachers Union and Mass Peace Action and the Mass Democratic Future and SEIU and all the others aren’t on the ballot this Tuesday.

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          p>Of course I am with Hurd. HE AIN’T KEN DONNELLY!

          • Ernie Boch III is a polluter.
            Ernie Boch III wants to dump raw sewerage in Boston Harbor.
            Ernie Boch III wants to kill defenseless little animals.
            That’s because Ernie Boch III is against the Sierra Club, which is a member of the Mass Alliance.

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            p>If this makes no sense to you, than Ernie’s original post that cherry-picks one organization out of the alliance makes no sense, either.

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            p>Besides, in a Democratic primary, I would rather have the Mass Alliance than Ernie Boch III.

      • Progessive organizations decided that they’d be stronger working together, when possible, than apart. This is nothing Republicans don’t do, too. In fact, your party’s greatest asset, for most of the past 20+ years, is in its ability to hold its coalitions together. Democrats are now trying to do the same. I guess I can see why that bothers you, but I just don’t see why you don’t get it. It’s very, very simple.

          • you have a minimal understanding of logic.

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            p>You pick one group out of 20-30 and try to say all of them are the same as that one group. You fail.

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            p>Let me use a metaphor. The DSAofB is a banana, NARAL is a pear. MassEquality are grapes and the MTA is an apple. They are not the same, but they recognize that instead of fighting against each other advocating for bananas or grapes or pears or apples, that they’d have much more success if they advocated for all fruits. Except, in this case, you can substitute “fruit” for progressive causes. But just because apples are advocating for fruit, it doesn’t make them a socialist banana.

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            p>I have already explained this to you in a really, really simple way. If you can’t understand this new metaphor, you are wasting my time and your’s. If you can’t grasp something this simple, then you are far beyond my tutelage and really ought to seek professional help.

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            p>Once, as a TA of International Relations, I had a student who came to me for help with his paper. I thought he needed ideas for his thesis, or where to look to find sources, or a topic that would be good to write about – or something like that. Then he said he had written a rough draft and I read the paper. It was completely unintelligible; I could barely tell that it was in English. I felt bad, but there was absolutely, positively nothing I could do for him – short of teaching him the very basics of English grammar. That was not my responsibility. I simply had to politely refer him to the Reading and Writing Center.

            <

            p>It’s not my responsibility to teach you the basics of logic. Of course, I don’t actually think you are this helpless, but if you’re going to act that way, then I’m forced to respond to you the way you’re asking to be treated.

            • You pick one group out of 20-30 and try to say all of them are the same as that one group. You fail.

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              p>No Ryan, I look at it as a political coalition existing for one purpose. To promote its politcal agenda. Good for them. I have no problem.

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              p>But, by definition all the membes must be of the same political bent or they would not join/be accepted. It is a marriage of mutual political interests. Therefore each member is a reflectioon of the other. Members should not be insulted if asked to explain the presence of the member with the socialist agenda.

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              p>It’s like this Ryan.

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              p>Suppose Terry Fracona and Theo Epstein had every position covered with respectable major leagur players. Suppose even they were all Hall of Famers.

              <

              p>But suppose there was one exception. Francona and Theo insited on playing a guy with no arms. The guy sucks.
              Costs the team games. The guys bad playing and noticible difference is reflecting poorly on the team.

              <

              p>Shouldn’t Francona and Theo and teammates be expected to be asked, “Hey, what’s this guy doing on the team?”

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              p>Likewise, shouldn’t the other members of Mass Alliance want an explanation about the socialist member.
              More importantly, should a candidate seeking MassAlliance’s endorsement in return for a commitment to all its values be expected to ask MassAlliance “Hey, what are the socialists doing on the team?”

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              p>Or am I just an Old Fart living in the past?

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              p>Capitalism is soo twentieth century

              • No Ryan, I look at it as a political coalition existing for one purpose. To promote its politcal agenda. Good for them. I have no problem.

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                p>Then why are you wasting my time! Obviously you DO have a problem.

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                p>

                But, by definition all the membes must be of the same political bent or they would not join/be accepted.

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                p>Who’s definition? Your’s?! Isn’t one of my chief points, extended to its logical conclusion, that these organizations aren’t the same?

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                p>Here’s the thing: NARAL recognizes that most politicians who are strong for education are strong for the right to medical privacy. The SEIU recognizes that not only do most proequality supporters support unions, but many of their union members are actually heavily impacted by matters of civil rights. The key to all of these things is “most, but not all, candidates.” There are many races where no MassAlliance endorsement is given, because no concensus can be reached. Why? Those are often the races where there’s one candidate who’s pro union and one who’s anti choice. One candidate who’s great on education, but horrible on issues that concern the environment.

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                p>However, all of these organizations recognize that they’re more powerful when working together than apart. So, when they can work together, they do. If MassEquality didn’t exist, or was severely weakened, then the SEIU would only be looking out for its interests and MassEquality would be ignoring all the other progressive organizations, etc. etc. etc. They’d be more fractured and often sparring with one another, wasting precious resources – while people who they’d all disagree with build coalitions and gain power. We’d be right back in the Finneran and Bulger years – where progressives in the State House were rare and the roost was ruled by a coalition of the social conservative democrats and republicans (but I’m sure that’s what you want!). No thanks.

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                p>If you’re so concerned with political coalitions, go throw stones at the Republicans. One of the reasons why they’ve been in power for so long is that they’ve been able to keep their various constituencies working together for decades – the religious right, neocons and the drown-the-government-in-the-bathtub crowd. Their tents aren’t quite as diverse as our’s, but they’re plenty big enough and have led to what should be fractures… yet they almost always keep it together. MassAlliance is an attempt – a good one, so far – at keeping the progressive wing of the Democratic Party together so we can make a meaningful difference to state politics and policy.

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                p>

                Or am I just an Old Fart living in the past?

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                p>Hey, you’re the one that said it. Not I. If you’re letting a tiny, tiny organization with very little manpower or resources work you over in such a significant way, then yes, you’re right. I don’t know why MassAlliance let the DSAoB into their coalition – maybe to show that they’re a big tent, maybe they were one of the earlier members, I don’t know. I honestly don’t care. Only you seem to get worked up about this, so I won’t waste my time caring, either.  

                • You need to go out and get laid.

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                  p>Really.

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                  p>Didn’t your father ever tell you that people are judges by the people they hang with?

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                  p>You are a walking advertisement for stupidity.

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                  p>I have a problem with socilaists’ politics. I don’t have a problem with them trying to advance their cause.

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                  p>Do you understand the difference Ryan?

                  <

                  p>I have no problem with them exercising their rights and getting out there and fighting for what they believe in.

                  <

                  p>Do you understand the diffuence Ryan?

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                  p>I just want ken Donnelly to explain the relationship the DSA has with his politcs and values.

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                  p>Fair question, don’t you think Ryan?

                • Donelley’s ever even talked with the DSA. Just because he accepted MassAlliance’s help, doesn’t mean he supports every organization in it. They’re just one member organization. Do you understand the difference? Plus, the DSA isn’t exactly a hate group… they just want a bigger mix of socialism in this country – and don’t think of the word in the context of communism. Socialism obviously means different things for you than it does for many other Americans.

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                  p>On the “you’re stupid, Ryan,” comment: You’re like the person I had in a history class, a long time ago, who thought Chicago was a state. She thought we were all stupid, too, when we told her no, it wasn’t. I’m pretty sure someone had to pull out a map. I don’t exactly think you’re stupid, but there’s a reason your opinions are in the very fringe minority of this state.

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                  p>Also, if you know any young, cute and single gay men… feel free to introduce me. Don’t go out and say I need to get laid without sending anyone my way =p That said, I don’t exactly see the connection my sex life has with me being right or wrong… other than the fact that if I want to freely be able to partake in that life and enjoy equal protections under the law, I better continue to support MassAlliance and its glbt-supporting membership.

                • Serious Misstep.

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                  p>What if NAMBLA was member?

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                  p>Shouldn’t he at least run through the list before asking for the endorsement (which is what Mass Alliance requires) and sharing in all of Mass ASlliance’s values. (Which is also what Mass Alliance requires)

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                  p>Shouldn’t he ask questions?

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                  p>That’s what we want our senator do?

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                  p>And your still stupid ryan.

                  <

                  p>you want you cake and eat it to.
                  Never explain anyhting because ryan and friens are morally superior.

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                  p>Intellectually dishonest ryan.

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                  p>That is what you are.

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                  p>Not stupid. Intellectually dishonest.

                • What if NAMBLA was member?

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                  p>But NAMBLA wasn’t a member. Don’t be a dweeb. Stick to the facts. MassAlliance has a stellar representation throughout Massacshusetts political scenes. You’re grasping at straws in an attempt to damage their credibility. You’d do better in trying to stick to facts than making up irrelevant hypotheticals and absurd straw mans. You obviously can’t win the argument on the merits, so now I’m suddenly supposed to argue a what-if scenario involving the crackpots at NAMBLA? I don’t think so.

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                  p>Talk about being intellectually dishonest!

                  <

                  p>

                  Which is also what Mass Alliance requires

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                  p>Oh, so suddenly you’re the expert on MassAlliance? Really? Please quote for me exactly where it states that a candidate must share in every value of every single member organization of MassEquality. Then please explain to me why they’ve endorsed dozens of candidates who don’t match that discription. Then please explain for me why there’d frequently be issues in which the membership organizations differ on key issues – for example, some of the member orgs very publicly support casinos, others equally publicly oppose them. You’re obviously an expert on MassEquality, Ernie, since you claim to know so much about them. You don’t even need links! So, please explain to me these discrepencies, I’m too much of a simpleton and too intellectually dishonest to understand.  

  3. Here is the mission statement of those scary, scary socialists.

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    p>”In DSA, we recognize each person’s inalienable rights of freedom and equality, and reject intrusion both by government and corporations. However, we believe we have a contract with each other in a common society. We call ourselves socialists because we oppose exploitation of all kinds, whether based on class, race or gender. We believe cooperation is a more important principle for organizing our communities than competition. We believe in democratic principles in all areas of life: in our government, in our communities, in our jobs. And in our own organization! We welcome lively debate, encourage free thought, and reject dogmatic thinking.”

    • In fact I respect you for stating that you are  member and speakinmg up for what you believe knowing it is an uphill battle. You defend the DSA well.

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      p>You yourself know that your politics is in the minority.

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      p>Isn’t it reasonable for a candidate to be asked and toexplain the political coalitions he seeks endorsements of. This isn’t a softball league demredsox, it is a political coalition of like minded politically active groups.

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      p>Im sure demredsox, if you and I had a cup of coffee you would argue in a logical fashion why you support DSA. You would not deny and ignore your involvement with DSA.

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      p>If socilaism is going mainstream then the morons that vote deserve an explanation and an education.  

      • And my point is both that accepting an endorsement from Mass. Alliance is not equal to saying “I am a socialist” and that DSA would not merit a rejection of the endorsement.

        • or something worth explaining. Like I said, it ain’t a softball league. They share the same political and social concerns. So much so that they have a political coalition of just 22 members openly trying influence politics. Donnelly asked for their endorsements. Mass Alliance asked in return that Donnelly commit to “all its values”.

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          p>That deserves an explanation from the candidate if he is asked. Don’t you believe it is a legitamate question in a campaign?

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          p>That is my problem.

          • oh, get off it, ernie. Seriously, when will you ever stop with the faux outrage?

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            p>Let me make this really simple for you.

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            p>Tiny, small group decides it can’t do much on its own. (the DSAofB)

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            p>Tiny group sees that there’s an organization working to elect strong, progressive democrats who want things like single payer and universal all-day kindergarden.

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            p>Tiny group would like to pool its small resources with larger group, so it can be more effective in helping, even if larger group isn’t 100% aligned with them.

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            p>Large group is broad coalition, looking for as many members who can contribute something to the table as possible, so it accepts smaller group among its dozens of member organizations.

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            p>Broad coalition works to elect progressive democrats across the state, with great success. Helps change the tenure of state politics, by pushing against the large tendency for democrats to be democrats in name only. Broad coalition even runs (heaven forbid!) primaries against some of those weaker DINOs, to help get universal health care, equal rights for all and other goals among organization members.

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            p>AKA

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            p>This is Democracy.

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            p>Get over it.  

            • Hey Ryan

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              p>Please drop the faux stuff, it sounds really pretentious and it has been used too often on this blog.  

              • I’ve been done with school for about a year now. Furthermore, I only brought up the “faux” outrage because I don’t think Ernie’s really outraged about it. I just think he wants to make up shit because he doesn’t like how successful these organizations have been in changing the dynamics of politics in Massachusetts; their success has been game-changing.  

      • …in most other countries we would compare ourselves to.  In Canada and much of Europe even the center-right parties have made their peace with concepts that would make people like you scream “Socialist!”  You have not throughout this thread explained why you believe socialism is bad, or what points specifically you disagree with the MassAlliance or its member organizations about.  Socialism is NOT Communism; in this context it IS Democratic.  I am a member of Massachusetts Democratic Future and while the group takes liberal positions, a few moreso than I would prefer, we are definitely NOT socialist.

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        p>While I don’t go as far as being socialist myself either in that my default assumption is still private ownership where it can work, but stop throwing epithets around.  After all we are a mixed economy system and there are great public entities such as parks, roads, emergency services, some health care, etc.

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        p>So why don’t you say what specifically you disagree with Ken Donnelly rather than tagging him with guilt by association?  Also keep a couple of things in mind.  First is that candidates have often said just because some group endorses me doesn’t mean I endorse them.  Second, these listed groups, especially the unions in this case, have many rank and file members who it might surprise you to learn are real people and voters who have legitimate concerns about the direction they want their government to take.

        • you know, the country that gives people opportunity. that’s why all those europeans and others came here. a democratic republic based on a free market capitalist economy.  
          we could be like europe and work 3 days a week and hang out smoking cigerettes and drinking coffee in cafes all day.

          <

          p>screw that!

          <

          p>BTW. please don’t
          insult my intelligence and that of the BMG reader by informing us socialism is not communism.
          no shit ethel rosenbeg. but socilaism still sucks.

          <

          p>what non-profit do u work for Christopher?

          • feel free to move to a country that didn’t just buy 50% of the country’s mortgages, or have universal, free-access to K-12 education, or that paves roads throughout the country on the taxpayer’s dime. Or that provides social security and medicare to all our senior citizens.

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            p>If socialism sucks so bad, I’m sure there’s a country out there for you, but this one ain’t it – because we have an awful lot of socialism in our system.  

            • Rye,I’m sure you are nude every once in awhile. You do take showers, right? Change your clothes and underwear too I bet.

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              p>Well that doesn’t make you a nudest.

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              p>You and Pablo use intellectually flawed arguments and logig in  defending candidates for chosing to asssociate themselves with the Democratic Socialists of America yet not having to answer for it.

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              p>They don’t call it the European Dream. They call it the American Dream.

              <

              p>Motivation is nice. Socilaism kills motivation.

              <

              p>How many BMGers work for non-profits?

              • There’s a book out there by that title, but unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to read it.  I know there are aspects of Europe I would prefer, such as free/minimal cost health care and post-secondary education.  I have no interest in hanging around doing nothing, but I would like to not worry about basic needs so I can contribute to society in ways that don’t necessarily make a lot of money for myself.

              • I don’t work for a nonprofit.  I have to buy every sheet of paper I use, every ink cartridge, there is no paid sick time, no paid vacation.

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                p>Why do you assume everyone who cares about issues like child welfare, or infrastructure repair, or access to justice, or economic justice is a “socialist” or works for a “nonprofit” – hey there is a reason I helped get Moonbat T-shirts made – I am sick and tired of the mean-spirited, let the poor sink, throw the kids away, who cares about the future as long as “I get mine” attitude out there.

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                p>Big government is what fights disease, educates, and builds true prosperity.  My .02

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                p>Of the folk I know personally who write on this site, only one “works for a nonprofit” environmentalist group.

                • That is not my point.

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                  p>let’s not mistake our country’s protection of constitutional rights with socialism.

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                  p>You know you are my hero Amber.

              • To me, the American Dream means if you work hard and play by the rules, you’ll live well and be provided for when you no longer are able to provide for yourself – through age or injury. It’s tough to have that, for example, without universal health insurance and a stellar (better than currently exists in most places) educational system. I’d stake my life on it that those two things would help far more with most Americans’ dreams than drown-government-in-bath-water-style taxes. Those are exactly the kinds of policies the organizations that you criticize are pushing for.

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                p>BTW – I’ve been told by numerous people that “Socialist France” has, by a large margin, the most productive work force in all of Europe, hour for hour. There’s a little more here about that. I’m not saying we should be a bunch of socialists or suddenly have 30 hour work weeks, but having a few more policies that help the average Joe instead of the Corporate Joe would improve the lives of Americans, would make us more productive as a country… and would make us better people. Everyone deserves to have a little vacation time, or, if they’re forced to work 50-60 hours in a week, they deserve a little overtime because of that extra stress. This is all pretty basic stuff and would improve the lives of everyday Americans.

          • As for equating Socialism with Communism, that is exactly what critics of Socialism usually do.  What I’m not always sure of is whether such critics believe it themselves or are just hoping they can trick others into believing it.

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