The folks fighting The Dumb Idea (i.e. the income tax abolition) have a nifty tool to show how much your town would lose in funding for necessary services. It's schools, cops, firemen, bridges, etc. etc. etc.
Well, for me in Medford, that would be over $19 million in school aid; and $10.5 million for town aid. Fantastic! I'm sure all those kids will find something to do during the day. Perhaps they can all become chimney-sweeps, or sell pencils, or drugs, or each other. Thanks, Carla Howell, for plotting to make my town a crappier place to live.
Work needs to be done on this one — the polls are basically split, with a lot lot lot of undecideds. This thing needs to go down hard.
The major political battle of the day is not against individuals, not just against the GOP, not even against conservatism … but just against bogus, childish magical thinking that there's a free lunch somewhere for everything; that nothing actually costs money; that you can get something for nothing. Can we grow up, please? We have a reasonably decent quality of life in MA by any number of measures (schools and health care, e.g.); how many of us are willing to flush that down the toilet?
PS: I'm not crazy about the Votenoquestion1 folks phrasing — “Vote no on question #1: It's a reckless idea.” I mean, recklessness isn't all bad, is it? No, it's The Dumb Idea, because it's harmful, childish, petty, cutting-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face, dumb. Can I get a banner for that?
does the nifty calculator think that Medford is in Essex County? Now that’s a reckless idea!
<
p>Seriously, this thing has only one chance at passing: people who know that it’s a bad idea but who vote “yes” anyway because they want to send a dramatic message to Beacon Hill that they’re sick of the way business is being done up there — and who also believe Sal DiMasi when he says that the legislature would never allow the repeal to take effect. Those people will be tough to reach with a campaign like this, since they reject its basic premise (namely, that a “yes” result means that their hometown loses millions of dollars).
No really, that’s the worst reason in the world to vote yes.
Usually when I want to send a message to my representatives, I use an envelope. Sometimes e-mail.
<
p>If all the people out there voting Yes in order to “send a message” actually sent a literal message, you bet that’d be heard loud and clear. And ultimately it would hurt the state a lot less.
<
p>Ever try that?
sending the message at the ballot box by voting against them. Better yet, stop whining and run for office and try to build support for your ideas. Oh, that’s right. It’s much easier to whine about high taxes here on BMG.
Along with millions of other people I have been writing and calling my glorified representatives for years ..
In the old days we at least got email spam-o-grams in return asking for contributions or whatever but lately we are completly ignored.
My fondest memory was when I wrote a snail mail letter to kennedy back in the 70s; something about opposing his extending student loan coverage to pay for useless “trade” schools who’s teachings had zero chance of leading to actual paying work; but while he voted against my interest he did send me a nice form letter with a real stamped ink signature and SIGNATURE WAS STAMPED WAS UPSIDE DOWN ..
Priceless, plus another new industry was born, praying on people dreams by selling useless training with no down payment required, just sign here ……
Pols are so attentive to constituants.
Take this Wall street bailout as example.
I’m not wasting the money for a stamp.
how would they go about enacting a graduated income tax to replace it?
There are states in this country (TX,FL) etc., that are THRIVING without an income tax. Massachusetts doesn’t need one either. There is plenty of revenue. We need to control SPENDING. THEY(elected officials) will never do so if we don’t MAKE them do so.
All of the states without income tax replace it with something else, fees, sales tax, property tax, state owned liquor stores, …
Has anyone checked their municipal cherry sheets with the figures being given as State Aid by VoteNoQuestion1? It looks like they included local property tax receipts into their State Aid total.
<
p>It is still very concerning though.
Wouldn’t the legislature just replace lost income tax revenue with some other kind of tax?
From the power point slide on the site.
<
p>
if the income tax repeal passes, there’s not going to be a lot of time to react to it and find the dough to pay for them. But, yes, for towns that are willing to increase property taxes by massive amounts, you’ll see it. Others, well, they’re screwed. Also, we’ll see other regressive taxes like sales taxes explode, but not after significant cuts are already made in programs we need.
I bet any property tax solution to make up the shortfall (to, for example, NOT have to urgently close half your schools) hits Prop 2 1/2, even in a place like Lowell which is way under 2 1/2 increases every year.
<
p>So in many (most?) towns, that will require overrides.
<
p>We know how well THOSE go.
Now start listing prgrams that we don’t need or programs that can be cut right to the bone.
If income tax is off the table we will see one or more of the following:
<
p>Increased sales tax
<
p>Repeal or local overrides of Prop. 2 1/2 (something I actually happen to favor)
<
p>More and increased fees
<
p>Fewer services
<
p>No such thing as a free lunch!
I am sick to death of Beacon Hill and the State House pissing my tax dollars away to special interest groups, those who are “connected, and simple ignorance—-oh—-and flat out “don’t give a crap.”
your subject heading and post make no sense together. So, you have no problems with the other revenue streams, but you do have a problem with your tax dollars being “pissed… away.”
<
p>I obviously don’t agree with you that taxes are pissed away, but I’ll play along. So, politicians piss away tax dollars. You already accept that your property taxes, sales taxes and government fees are going to go way up – you have “no problem” with it. What makes you think these fees/sales taxes/property taxes won’t be “pissed away” like your income taxes? It’s completely illogical.
<
p>You don’t have to answer this question, but I’m very curious about what you earn in income. Unless you earn hundreds and hundreds of thousands a year, chances are you’ll pay MORE in taxes if the income tax is cut. Why? Your property taxes and sales taxes are likely to rise by a number much larger than your income taxes if we gut the income tax – especially if you live in a wealthy/middle class suburb that is more likely to pass generous overrides to keep their schools affloat.
<
p>If you do earn many hundreds of thousands or millions a year, yes, you’ll save money in taxes. However, it still may cost you a lot of money in the long run. Consider the fact that since schools are going to go downhill, people are going to have to find more funds for health care and people are going to lose their homes, decreasing the property value in your community. All of these things amount to worse property values in your home and less opportunities to make money as society will overall be a lot less well off. If you own a business or your business deals with people buying your services, you’ll stand to lose a lot of money. If you work in some corporate entity, this very well could ‘trickle down,’ or up in this case, to your job and end up in you being laid off. No matter how this fruity idea is sliced, it’s a bad idea for everyone in the state of Massachusetts, including the greediest and least intelligent.
To answer your question——I do OK. I worked very hard at great sacrifice.
<
p>You miss the dichotomy. I don’t mind paying taxes. I don’t even mind paying high taxes. What sends me right through the roof is fraud, waste, and abuse. I have repeatedly stated that in my several careers I have pointed out to management, (and when I was management—higher management), waste, poor financial management, and periodically fraud. Government does one thing: spend money. Whatever amount government is allotted—-it will spend. It is no secret that at the end of the fiscal year, if there are funds remaining, there is a panic to spend it. Spend it on everything and anything because next year we will not be able to justify our budget.
<
p>Ex: Yesterday in my very small town I watched the “Water Dept” pickup truck driving around town with two occupants doing nothing—driving around aimlessly. Town Hall has “electric heaters” next to double exterior doors, without the benefit of gaskets on the doors–and they are ill fitting to boot.
<
p>I’m not trying to pontificate. I have been in employed in state and federal government. The financial mismanagement is stunning. Perhaps it is because many governmental employees aren’t that bright. Perhaps they don’t care. Maybe even it is because government is now hamstrung because of PC crap, and the inherit inefficiency of trying to be “fair” to everyone, when life ain’t fair. Whatever the reason, our stste and federal governmemts are seriously impaired, inefficient, and costing us probably twice what we need to be paying.
<
p>Your likely retort would be, “What did you do to change it?” Well I tried. Sometimes I was successful. More often I was not. Why? Because I was rocking the boat. I was making it uncomfortable for the bosses—. Boat rockers, and wave makers are not appreciated nor in many instances—-tolerated. Private business in many instances are different, but not always.
<
p>I’m digressing and losing focus. What I’m trying to say is that effective and efficient government does wonderful things. Unfortunately, we rarely enjoy effective and efficient government. Massachusetts is a glaring example.
Massachusetts government if rife with nepotism and cronyism to the point that we are witnessing the ball unwind. Whether we are in “good times” or “bad times” government should not be allowed to spend one more dollar than need be.
Government is insatiable. I come from the “old school” My parents went through the Great Depression” as did every adult I knew growing up. People were frugal.
Absolutely, cronyism and patronage is a problem in government. Absolutely, there are areas where we could tighten our belt and get things done. However, cutting the income tax won’t accomplish that. The most glaring example of anything that bothers you in this state is probably the Turnpike Authority. Governor Patrick’s already making steps to merge it with other state departments and bring it under the control of the governor – which would at least mean there’d be accountability there, as Charley frequently points out.
<
p>If you stayed focused on just the biggest examples of what you don’t like in government, as well as many that feel the same way as you, we’d be more successful in ending these bad practices. Many conservatives rail against the tolls. As do progressives. As do the everyday, nonpolitical people who drive through those tolls. The tolls are essentially useless and have in turn created a government agency that mainly exists to simply exist and provide jobs. It doesn’t effectively pay for the work that needs to be done on the pike or in the tunnels – hence their debt. Other ways, with no tolls, could be even more effective in paying for the state’s highway system without the hassle. But that’s never going to happen without focus and foresight on these matters. Getting trapped in the Yes on 1 side is a distraction from the real problems of government, written by people who’s goal it is not to reign in waste, but to destroy government itself. I assure you, 40% of this state’s budget isn’t “waste.” Waste is fraud and abuse. Even money that you may not necessary agree with isn’t “waste,” but even if you counted all that money too – it’s still not going to amount to 40% of this state’s budget.
The calculator, like the rest of the lame campaign, is meant to be really scary and the stupiderthat you are the more effective it will be.
The design was made on the assumption that you attended public schools here in mass and that you have been innundated with the rambling sounds of Mayor Menino and Barney Frank droning on in the background for at least the past 30 years, thus dulling what little sense might have endured your “formation” years.
The test of wether you have been properly conditioned to benifit from the website is how you answer the question of “is Ted Kennedy a great orator”?
Are you scared yet or should we write and tell the web site creators to make an audio BOOOO sound when the randomly created results are displayed.
The idea behind Question 1 is to ELIMINATE the income tax and not to replace it with something else. If the legislature endeavors to impose alternate tax sources, those legislators should be THROWN out of office.
The taxpayers are seething with anger at congress and the state legislature is about to say: “Oh BTW, we have to raise your taxes to pay for Newton’s new HS, The fraud, waste, and abuse of the MBTA, Mass Turnpike Authority, Massport, Mass Water Resource, and a significant percentage of state government, and the entire legislature.”
<
p>”But remember, when you go to vote, if you vote for the abolition of the income tax, you’re cutting your nose off to spite your face. If you vote to keep the income tax, you’re giving the legislature permission to crush you with additional taxes.”
Maybe they will reject this iteration too. Would that make you feel better about the income tax? In all likelihood, there would be less income to tax, after all, if the rescue plan is not approved.
The point is that the legislature, Boston and it’s mayor and city council, and the counties (generally) in MA feel some sort of entitlement to my wallet as well as every working man, woman, and child in MA.
<
p>Our legislature is broken. We have politicians that now consider their election and position a lifetime position and will do ANYTHING, say ANYTHING, spend WHATEVER amounts of their constituents money to guarantee their election.
<
p>On top of that our society has run amok with spending money they don’t have. Most people are in debt up to their ears. (Was speaking with a friend today—a couple in a south shore seaside home have a 2.5 million dollar home in foreclosure and 550K in credit card debt. Yes folks—that’s five hundred and fifty thousand dollars!)
In my entire life—the only thing that I never paid cash for was my home. I have never owed anything except a mortgage. Why—? because if I couldn’t pay cash—I went without until such time that I could afford it. So now that our entire society is awash in debt, there has been an economic downturn and folks and business’s are insolvent, the government printing press is going into high gear. We will be facing staggering inflation like we had with Carter. Americans will have to get used to the idea that gratification can and must wait.
<
p>It may get to the point where the rubber meets the road. Either some perish or all perish. I know that liberals have trouble grasping that concept—-but that is reality—-like it or not.
The Massachusetts economy went into a death spiral. Revenues tanked. The state ran out of money. As a state employee we had “payless paydays”! The state told us we had to work—we just wouldn’t get paid, we could take comp time at some point in the future..
The state employees sued the state and we got paid eventually at a later date.
<
p>There is entirely too much taxpayer money being mismanaged, spent on the unnecessary, and the undeserving.
<
p>The problem with government—it has an insatiable appetite. When Ed King was governor—he took an axe to the state budget. It’s that time again.
We’re not talking about whether the governor should cut taxes. We’re not talking about taking either scalpels or axes to anything. We’re talking about a full-blown abolition of the income tax. The nuclear option.
<
p>However anti-tax you are, however much you hate government, do you HONESTLY think that’s a good idea?
It is time to ELIMINATE this tax. The commonwealth is running a surplus. We are not being told the truth. I can’t WAIT to vote YES on Question 1.
We are not being told the truth? Is there a shadowy conspiracy involved?
<
p>So why don’t you reveal what the truth is? I asked you to do the same on Thursday in a thread further down the page in which you claimed to have crunched numbers that were difficult to obtain. You haven’t replied.
<
p>It’s getting harder not to assume that your claims to have secret info are simply made up. And whether it’s about WMD in Iraq or obliterating the Massachusetts revenue base, claims of secret data don’t tend to make for good policy.
<
p>(I also note that MCRD, to whose comment I was initially replying, hasn’t answered. I hope that’s because MCRD knows that even if one hates taxes, even given the fact that there are hacks in state government who misuse money, Question 1 is a clear case of using a chainsaw (or a bomb, really) where one ought to use a scalpel.
michael widmer on LeftAhead today – who’s widely regarded in this state by conservatives and liberals alike (even if we liberals don’t always agree with him, his facts and figures are always top notch).
<
p>Here’s the gist of what he had to say: 40% of the state’s budget being gutted all at once would be horrifying. We could fire EVERY state employee – thousands of them – and that would only amount to 7 billion. We’d need to find another 5 billion to get back in the black.
<
p>He also estimated that the amount of waste in government was in the very low single digits, percent wise. And he’s a fiscal watchdog.
<
p>If you want to talk about waste, I’m all in favor of that discussion. Let’s set up a commission to find that waste and propose cuts that could be made. I’d be in favor of getting rid of all the tolls – and the toll workers – as the tolls cost almost as much to run and staff as the revenue they collect.
<
p>But eliminating the income tax is asinine. It’s stupid. It’s only going to cost you more money in the longrun, in increased property and sales taxes. Don’t take my word for it – just ask New Hampshire. We’re 32 out of 50 in taxes citizens have to pay per citizen. New Hampshire’s #7. They may not have the income tax, but they more than make up for it elsewhere – just in less progressive ways that create huge gaps in costs and services.
On the show he also mentioned that IF you subtract ALL the required spending the state has by statutory law, like debt service etc, the income tax is ACTUALLY more like 70% of the discretionary spending budget. Discretionary in this case refers to ALL the spending as you know it, like local aid, chapter 70, police, fire, every service government provides, pretty much.
<
p>So the 40% of the budget figure is actually a little misleading.
I am very fiscally conservative. I despise waste anywhere—-The amount of fraud, waste, and abuse is significant. I’d say at a minimum 20% of the state budget or even 30%.
<
p> Just as a starter:
<
p>State buildings with ONE thermostat. Ground floor freezes, top floor—-windows open in JANUARY.
<
p>State and municipal buildings with no storm doors, caulking –nothing. Furnaces run non stop–24/7.
<
p>Hot water faucets and water faucets that have no washers—-the hot water pours down the drain 24/7, toilets run 24/7
<
p>new sanders for snowplows that are rotting into the earth because the hydraulics were incompatible.
<
p>State employees using their state cars on time off. Why—-because they don’t even OWN a car!
<
p>State workers working 1/2 days while they are on the clock
<
p>State workers working fictitious overtime.
<
p>State workers on two clocks at the same time.
<
p>State management personnel that are terrified of enforcing any regulations because of union intimidation and MCAD.
<
p>This is the TIP of the ICEBERG.
<
p>I retired early in disgust. Believe me—–management wanted me gone ASAP. I spent my entire career telling the emperor he had no clothes.
They ain’t listening up there. beacon Hill ignores initiative petion and referendum. They don’t give a crap. They have already let us know that in spades.
<
p>Apparently short of another Shea’s Rebellion, this is the only way to get their attention.
<
p>It is abundantly clear that neither our congress nor our state legislature gives a damn what we think.
Get back to me when you come up with a single tangible benefit of cutting the income tax.
A tip of the hat from another former state employee.
<
p>I guess that people have to experience the atmosphere for themselves to understand the complete story; It just can not be painted effectivly using only words.
Citizens of Massachusetts have no idea as to how much waste and outright THEFT is occurring here. Eliminating income tax is a small but necessary step in the right direction.
I do believe that your democratic state legislators are very good at raising existing taxes, or finding new items to tax. Legalize marijuana, that’s a brand new revenue stream right there. I firmly believe that elderly programs are overfunded. 20% could be cut right there. So they don’t have their annual June cookouts and field trips to spend the remainder of their budgets. So the new paint jobs and furniture are not an annual thing. Thats not a bad thing. I am sure an independent audit could find loads more waste. So some of the fat-assed friends and relatives of your democratic state legislature will need to get a real job. Yes, I know, wishful thinking. You democrats put us into this shitmess, I’m open to better ideas than mine while not raising taxes.
Ever heard of Joe DeNucci? That’s exactly what we elect and pay him for.
Not democrat. Joe is also well known for putting friends and relatives in the state payroll. How come Joe only surfaces during election years? He’s almost as bad as Kerry. I may not be a republican, but I’m not voting for any democrats.
…so prove it! (regarding putting friends on payroll). He does pop up every once in awhile, but let’s face it, Auditor is not exactly a “sexy” office. He’s been in for years with no significant opposition so there must not be much to complain about. He IS independent in that he owes his office to nobody except the voters directly. He doesn’t have to worry about upsetting another state official for fear of his job.
Joe DeNucci goes along to get along.
<
p>He did NOTHING—ZERO, ZIP, NADA re the BIG DIG.
<
p>Don’t get me started.
Here is a list of some of DeNucci’s accomplishments. Here are some press accounts of his work. While I did not read them I assume being on his own website they are laudatory. There are a couple relative to the Big Dig. If you would like to find and source contradictions to this then by all means do get started. Granted I cited his own website, but basic facts should be able to withstand scrutiny.
1 It seems every year some Republican or other is out on a hunt for the Department of Waste. Shut it down and we can eliminate taxes. That simple.
<
p>You’d think that after 16 years of Republican governors — or 8 years of a Republican presidency — its address would be found, its windows shuttered, and its riches plowed back into the treasury.
<
p>It’s as elusive as El Dorado. It has never been located.
<
p>2 Likewise in the minds of many, the legislature is brimming with graft. Entire extended families of legislators and of friends of legislatures receive handsome pay for sinecures. Fire all these people, no services will be lost, and we won’t have to pay taxes ever again.
<
p>Strangely, this has escaped the watchful eye of The Boston Herald.
These are just myths.
<
p>They are myths that won’t die.
<
p>They are signs of how little our citizens try to understand our government and how little our government is transparent to our citizens.
Somebody as full of crap as me. Maybe you should actually buy and read the Herald.
Take a glance at the Massachusetts Alcoholic Beverage Control Control Commission. Two members are named Kujawski and Binienda. State Reps. Paul’s brother, and John’s son.
Take todays news: Cadillac is crying “$177 Million Shortfall” right next to “State to pay $100 Million For Rail Lines”
Please! Explain that to me!
Lets get real. You all have cried wolf too many times. Nobody is listening anymore.
that those employees you name don’t actually DO anything or are useful in providing services.
<
p>I’m against patronage as much as anyone, but to assume to eliminate jobs based on the fact that occasionally (yes, occasionally, ABOUT AS MUCH as in private business as far as I can tell, private business is rampant with this too, it’s a human trait, a negative cousin to “loyalty to one’s tribe”) friends and family get hired to nice jobs in state gov’t because you assume it must be waste, well, you’re not really being objective, are you? Are the jobs waste, or just being filled by people who (some less or more competently than others, like in any field) perform essential services? Obviously there are cases where incompetent people get hired due to patronage or jobs don’t get eliminated because of patronage when they should be, but what percentage? Do you actually know??
<
p>The only reason patronage appears worse with regards to the public rather than the private sector, is that it’s taxpayer money. I think it should certainly be fought at every turn (hi, I live in Lowell, the state capitol of patronage, and we’re doing all we can to stop it), but to eliminate essential government services because of a perception that most of them are filled by patronage is to fall for the oldest trick in the book.
<
p>Most of them are not, especially now (to be honest, it was worse when fracking Republican governors, who could largely care less whether government actually worked, were in charge…Patrick has done a lot to clear out some of this and hire good people). What the actual percentage is I don’t know, but it’s likely to be low. The percentage of these stories that gets into the Globe or Herald or Lowell Sun is near 100%. Good governance doesn’t get press, but bad governance does.
“are useful in providing services” = “aren’t useful in providing services”
http://www.telegram.com Feb. 2, 2005 “Romney Targets ABCC”
Feb. 3, 2005 “Gov. Mitt bellies up to the bar” by columnist Dianne Williamson.
<
p> To quote daddy John “He’s a good worker, he even goes to work when he’s sick”. Gee, how many of us would like that as a job qualification? Good luck with Lowell, it has good things happening!
The issue is one of scale not of degree of outrageousness.
The Mass Turnpike Authority—ditto
<
p>Massport—-ditto
<
p>This is a reality-based website. A) please explain how you get your 20% number and b) explain exactly what senior programs you find wasteful.
<
p>
<
p>And that’s supposed to be the 20%? LOL
<
p>Also, I’m interested to see where the we’re paying for those according-to-you free “field trips” and why my grandmother wasn’t invited to any.
<
p>
<
p>I’m not willing to vote to eliminate 40% of this state’s budget based on your assurances that there’s at least 40% waste. As I’ve said elsewhere, you could fire every single state employee and we’d still be billions in the red. Furthermore, 30% of this state’s budget goes toward things we’re legally required to pay – debt payments, etc. So, in effect, we’d only be able to spend 30% of what we do now to put teachers in the school, cops on your street and test drivers before they’re let on the road. I’m not a math wizard, but you can’t pay 30% and get all that.
<
p>
<
p>Best educational system in the world? Check.
Lowest divorce rates in the country? Check.
Highest percentage of citizens with health care in the country? Check.
High wages, low crime and a robust tourism industry with plenty of things to do right here at home? Check.
All that – and taxes in the lowest half of this country? Check.
<
p>If that’s a “shitmess,” you, sir, have damn high expectations.
best educational system in the country? Check.
<
p>Though, if you include our colleges, an argument could be made for the entire world…
Needs to find the local senior center. You don’t know it’s there unless you look for it. For example, the Oxford Senior Center feeds a regular crowd of 10-12 people daily. Unless theres an event, then 60-70 may attend. Are 50 seniors starving on a regular bases? no. The food sucks, taking them to the diner virtually next door would probably be cost-effective.
Education: Tuition at Framingham State Colleges is 17% of the cost incurred in attending. http://www.frc.mass/edu Add it up, I have.
Health Care: I agree wholeheartedly!
Tourism: Check out the Mass Pike website. http://www.massturnpike.com Click on Turnpike news, see just where your money is going.
Crime: Need money, crime is high. Placate the citizenry, crime is low. You pick your source, I’ll counter.
Thats enough for starters. Shitmess seems applicable.
<
p>
<
p>It’d be interesting to see the cost of closing the Senior Center, or leasing space within it to a restaurant, then providing vouchers for lunch directly to seniors. I’m sure any number of restaurants would also love to participate (Walmart, Friendlys….)
<
p>As it stands now, I have no idea how much said idea will cost or save, because the State and local budgets are so opaque as to make any meaningful analysis possible.
<
p>The kneejerk reaction to a claim that there’s government waste is ‘show me where you can cut 10%, 20%…’ I can’t. I can’t tell where the money goes. Most of the budget information is by department not type of expenditure.
<
p>Eliminate the income tax, and no question the Legislature will replace it. Somehow. The Speaker has said as much; I take him at his word. If the replacement involves a zero-based budgeting discussion, that’d be healthy.
Eliminate the income tax, and no question the Legislature will replace it. Somehow.
<
p>As I’ve noted before: I moved here from Texas. Everytime I go back to visit friends or family, I’m shocked at the costs. There’s no sales tax exemptions, which means they tax clothes, food, etc and where they can’t add sales tax, they’ve added fees.
<
p>BillXI can come up with as many mean spirited examples as he likes, but across the board services and schools are better here. It’s a good thing.
<
p>
<
p>
<
p>
<
p>Before people rally to slash a budget that they do not fully understand by nearly half – not including matching federal funds – how about an initial campaign for greater transparency and accountability?
<
p>Because while we may not all agree on where we should be spending money, or how much we should be spending, we could have more productive conversations if we were all looking at an accurate picture of where that money is coming from, and where it is going.
<
p>I suggest a nonpartisan coalition to spearhead THAT kind of action. Once we have the facts, we can engage in a more healthy debate on budgets, votes, and government responsiveness!
<
p>POSSIBLE PRIORITIES:
* A transparent, accessible, and accountable state and local budget and policy-making process
* A fair, adequate, and stable tax system that will provide sufficient revenue so that state and local governments can fund the public structures needed to build and maintain healthy communities
<
p>POSSIBLE INITIATIVES:
* Producing a simple and transparent balance sheet and maintenance budget
* Making those simple, transparent budgeting tools publicly accessible
* Making all votes – including those done electronically, in-session, and in-committee – public
* Making all hearings open and accessible to the public
* Holding public hearings in multiple parts of the state
* Scheduling municipal meetings so they are accessible to local residents
* Publicly disclosing all tax incentive packages
* Publicly disclosing all corporate tax payments
<
p>Let’s all demand more transparency and accountability – let’s just not do it by potentially crippling our economy and our state!
starting with the people who DO peruse the budget and give us what they think is going on, are already fighting for transparency (which I agree is a good thing, the best thing, the thing we SHOULD be all for)?
<
p>In Lowell, now that we have a nonpatronage city manager, his budgets are like a breath of fresh air. The previous CM was both a politio (former state with with, er, ethics problems) and not a technocrat. I’m not sure his budgets were obfuscated so much on purpose instead of the fact that he didn’t know what the crap he was doing.
<
p>Now we have line items, previous spending on said line items from the last budget to compare, etc. Even the patronage sorts are getting on board with the new CM, because he is accomplishing a lot, including moving forward with stalled initiatives for redevelopment of literally fallow ground (the last we have really) in Lowell.
<
p>I guarantee, if we accomplish even half of what is planned here in the next 10 years, you will all be coming to Lowell and gaping at the changes. All because we started to have transparency and measurements as to the efficiency we are attaining. NOT always by cutting spending (though, in some cases, that too).
<
p>You’re all going to want to move here. It’s gonna be awesome. For anyone who’s seen downtown lately, just imagine that, but three to four times bigger and better.
<
p>(Sorry, a little Lowell pride filtering in there…)
I initially had a suggestion that Michael Widmer head up the nonpartisan coalition in my reply! And while the work that Mass Taxpayers Foundation is doing with transparency is excellent, I would also like to see more taxpayers become more engaged in this effort. Representatives tend to make different decisions when watched – and contacted – by their constituents!
<
p>The work in Lowell sounds great! Three – of many – Massachusetts communities also working toward transparency include Lawrence, Barnstable, and Harwich.
as far as I know are largely paid through towns.
<
p>However, there’s a huge, gaping problem in society where seniors don’t have enough outlets and don’t have enough opportunity to get out. Having a senior center is a cost-effective way of tackling those problems. Plus, they do a lot more things than you’d think – health care related things, etc. If you’re going to be going after grandmas and grandpas across the state for having the audacity of going to the cheap-to-run local senior center with minimal staff and lots of use, be prepared to be thought of as a jerk by the vast majority of this state.
<
p>
<
p>Huh? Do you even know what you’re talking about. Tuition is a very, very small price of what it costs to attend a state school. The reason is that the state house has most of the control over tuition costs, while schools control the fees. Thus, the most of the expense is in fees, which means that students attending state school pay the overwhelming majority of the cost to attend it. I currently have nearly $50k in loans for my years spent at UMASS Dartmouth – and I had a decent financial aid package. Colleges have to pay for salaries, health care, utilities, infrastructure, transportation costs, research and a whole host of other issues.
<
p>The fact of the matter is that this state funds the state college system, including UMASS, 48th out of 50th in the country, per capita. How is that at all wasteful? Massachusetts is stingy when it comes to paying for public higher education. The students pay the brunt of the costs. Calling any of this waste is honestly reflective of someone who has a complete ignorance of the system. A LOT of done with a very, very small contribution from the state.
<
p>
<
p>If you like our health care bill, realize it costs money. If Prop 1 passes, say goodbye to the health care bill, along with a lot of other funds that make health care in Massachusetts more accessible.
<
p>
<
p>Please realize that the Turnpike authority has nothing to do with the income tax. The funds for that are elsewhere. I’m with you in your general thoughts of the authority: I’d like the see the toll system abolished in this state. 3/4s of the money tolls bring in get sucked up by the salaries of those who actually run the tolls. There’s better ways to fund our state’s highway system – and ways that don’t end up being insider systems rewarding patronage, etc. Liberals and conservatives alike can agree with that – but realize that getting rid of the income tax won’t do squat to get rid of it. There’s a strong political system protecting the authority that’s going to take years to undo, but if that’s a goal of your’s… keep your eye on the prize and stay focused.
Then we have the MBTA! Boston City Parks Dept. Mass Water Resource.
<
p>Forget about marijuana—-we have enough healthcare issues.
Anyone in Massachusetts who believes there is a deficit is wrong.
<
p>We have crunched the numbers (which are VERY difficult to obtain but attainable nonetheless). There is NO deficit and assertions to the contrary are either ignorant or misleading.
<
p>Massachusetts has a SPENDING PROBLEM not a revenue problem. The government here is bloated, wasteful and inefficient.
<
p>Petulant name calling does nothing to establish facts. If there is anyone out there who wants to see the numbers and the facts, please respond to this email and I will arrange their delivery.
<
p>Happily voting YES on Question 1.
So if “we” have crunched these difficult-to-obtain numbers, why don’t you share them with the entire site? Post them here, or provide a link. Let people see what info it is you have that the rest of the state apparently lacks.
I get it: petulant name calling will not establish the facts you have proved with — petulant name calling.
<
p>You could have made an interesting argument here if you had provided some of your “crunched” numbers.
OK, great, let’s assume what you say is true (and until you demonstrate it / link to it, I emphatically do not believe you)…
<
p>MA doesn’t have a deficit. MA doesn’t have a revenue problem.
<
p>Great.
<
p>Won’t passing Question 1 mean that MA will have a deficit, and will have a revenue problem?
<
p>I don’t understand your argument, and I don’t buy your premises.
Massachusetts has an approximately $13 billion surplus, contemporary budget figures notwithstanding. It’s not readily apparent to the untrained eye (which I am not but know those who have really dug deep on this). You have to ask for the information, again, and again, and again. Bottom line – cutting the income tax means leaving that “untaken” income in the pockets of those who produce it. Moreover, it will constitute an important first step toward modest, efficient government, specifically eliminating bureaucracies and privatising departments. It’s about competition and choice; income tax repeal is only the first step.
please show me this mythical, hidden $13 billion dollars. And then explain why you haven’t contacted the authorities to have the people hiding it arrested.
if we cut every single state job in Massachusetts, we’d still need to find another 5 BILLION dollars in cuts.
<
p>I love that your name is “social justice.” What do you think would happen to ‘social justice’ in this state if civil rights funding was gone, if the state had to stop sending funds to every school system in this state – including the poorest? If the state had to abandon efforts to reduce crime in areas were violence is skyrocketing.
<
p>Hypocrisy.
The posting gives the occassion for a flurry of posts championing the abolition of the income tax. None of these posts comes remotely close to explaining where some $13 billion of cuts would come from.
Cuts of this magnitude cannot be made up by cutting anything that any remotely fair-minded persin would regard as “waste.”
<
p>This measure is about one thing:
gutting education, health care, public safety, and social services.
<
p>If the proponents of the measure were honest or did the math an accurate slogang might be:
Let’s fire all the teachers!
Let’s close schools!
Let’s lay off fire fighters, polide, and first responders!
Let’s let roads and bridges crumbe!
Let’s remove health insurance from hundreds of thousands of Massachsuetts residents.
<
p>I’m sure that would be a popular ballot question.
<
p>Of, course, then they would say that this is just crying wolf. No it isnt’t when 40 percent of the state budget is at stake
(The one Ryan linked to above). It’s telling, I said, that they are trying to tell us there’s 40% waste, rather than trying to sell this for the real reasons it is on the ballot – to gut government and its popular services (the things you mentioned). The far right fiscal wing of the party has LOOONG wanted to abolish public education. Of course, that’s wingbuttery, and very few would vote for that, so they have to obfuscate that with things like “give your money back to YOU” and “look at all the waste! Think of the children!”
<
p>Facts, be damned.
<
p>Do you suppose you could find a single real reference to an advocate on the right that has expressed an interest, desire, hint, insinuation — just one person advocating from the right wing — that he/she seeks to abolish public education.
Grover Norquist, lobbyist and Republican spokesperson extrordinaire?
<
p>If you think that you can cut 70% of the discretionary spending of our state budget and NOT close public schools, than you are a tool. The ones perpetrating this? They probably are smart enough to know what will really happen, but want it to.
For God’s sake, a link, a reference, footnote, quote…anything.
<
p>After all, YOU’RE the one claiming some spooky right wing folks wants to abolish public education.
<
p>Here, I’ll see your right wing claptrap and raise you: Left wingers want to abolish Christmas and Easter and the 4th of July.
Those whacky libertarians!
http://mises.org/story/2937
Good reference. I forgot about lew rockwell.
<
p>Is that the source of Lynn’s original contention. “The far right fiscal wing of the party has LOOONG wanted to abolish public education.”?
<
p>If so, then I, by comparison, can claim with impunity and with similar support, that the Democrats seek to nationalize private business, eliminate religious holidays, endorse open ended unemployment benefits, believes the earth is flat. I’m sure that I can find someone, even if it’s the homeless Communist on the street who advances said belief.
If one goes far enough, one can find most any position. Lynne did say far right.
<
p>I haven’t looked for it, but my impression is that one can find other species of the conservative genus that oppose public education. There may be some paleo-conservatives left over from the era before public education who think education might be wasted on the lower orders. I bet that there are cultural warriors who regard public education as secular humanist indoctrination camps. I recall reading references to both types but I haven’t gone to the trouble to capture them in the wild. Possibly others with their telescopes aimed rightward can catch some of these specimens — or prove they’ve gone extinct.
<
p>To my eyes, the whole voucher thing is designed to pull down public education by degrees. (Get the affluent and the involved people out of the educational system, then watch it die from lack of political support.)
But there is quite the constituency (or rather, very vocal minority) for abolishing public ed. These are the people who have extreme ideological agendae that often trends toward theocracy.
they wrap their desires up in this pretty packaging called “tax cuts.”
<
p>Gary, you’re being absolutely, positively 100% intellectually dishonest if you suggest, for a second, that reducing this state’s budget by 40% wouldn’t effectively end public education in the state of Massachusetts. Two things could happen: it could really, truly end public education or it could create such a huge divide that many communities have an educational system that rivals, oh, I don’t know, a school house in the 1830s with libraries comprising of a whopping 20 books… or wealthy communities that use property taxes to make sure that there’s still decent (though worse) public schools. All those educational reforms and perks that even many conservatives in this state support – mandatory classes? the MCAS? AP courses? turkey day games? Say goodbye to them if prop 1 passes.
<
p>The people behind the bill obviously know this; there’s really only one logical conclusion – they want to kill government, public education and all. They don’t think their tax dollars should help poor kids from Lowell or New Bedford have half a shot (literally) at getting a high school diploma, nevermind providing the funds to give them all a full shot.
We do nothing and the legislature could give a crap less. They will continue to screw us and smile while they are doing it. Just like Finneran and Co who were smiling when they said: take your referedums and stick’m up your azz. These people don’t get it—-or if they do—-they don’t give a damn.
<
p>The taxpayers are demanding EFFICIENCY and PRUDENT expenditure. I don’t mind paying taxes. What I mind is some POS and his entire family on the dole, layabouts on the dole, and egregious spending of taxpayers money on “pet” projects and special interests (501(3)c’s).
<
p>The taxpayers are fed up!
<
p>He also has also seen a lot of waste in state government and listed some specifics earlier in this thread.
<
p>You should have seen the list we got from the guy who did the energy audit. Or the list my husband and I exchange about wasteful spending in our family. He stoutly defended his sail boat(s!) I stoutly defended my JJill bills.
<
p>Lots of ways the state could save money and we should be part of the process of identifying those savings, because they will add up.
<
p>I’m sorry you retired in anger MCRD, and I assume your pension is adequate for you to take some time and make some practical suggestions.
What is the dropout rate in Boston?
What was it thirty years ago.
<
p>What is the high school pregnancy rate in MA?
<
p>What was it thirty years ago?
<
p>Why are there day care centers in high schools?
<
p>Were there any thirty years ago. Why does it take twice the number of beaurocrats to do the same job half the number did thirty years ago?
<
p>Why does the sitting governor feel the need to significantly increase the size of his staff and their salaries. How about the other agencies..
<
p>The state police is twice the size it was fifteen years ago. has the state increased in size? Crime gone up?
<
p>Boston City schools and schools state wide have significantly more employees for a dwindling school population (todays Herald)
<
p>C’mon—- gimme a break—-do you think everyone a fool?
I believe Boston’s rate is: 57%, for a measly $300 million or so dollars(not sure of this number anymore). In airline terms, would you be willing to fly an airline that crash-landed 57% of the time? Nope: http://www.usatoday.com/news/e…
that we get rid of public education?
<
p>Hey, Gary, I think Lynne just found another person who wants to kill public education.
What’s your point?
I’m going to assume that since you’re so concerned by the lack of progress, that you’re jumping to do something about it. How many hours a week do you tutor the poor, in-need and at risk students Boston public educates?
<
p>On a serious level, no urban community like Boston is going to be able to achieve 90%+ graduation rates without a fundamental change to how we do public education in this country. There’s been plenty of pilot schools that have shown when we provide schools with the resources to tutor students and lengthen hours so students have an opportunity to learn what they need to know in school, we’re going to miss many of these students.
<
p>The fact of the matter is we lose kids at home, when they don’t have parents stairing down on them to finish their homework, when drugs and alcohol are often household issues, where violence gets in the way, where kids are too busy working to get funds to survive to finish their homework. We lose kids at home; they need to do more of their learning in school.
<
p>
<
p>Link please.
Communal Suicide. Even more descriptive, I think, and denotes what happens if this passes.
Thanks for headlining this issue again and please find the time in this busy election season to talk to your friends and neighbors. I’ve been phonebanking for Vote No, and a lot of people do not realize this is on the ballot. When you have the opportunity to discuss the issue with them, they often agree it’s a bad idea. But if a lot of people walk into the voting booth without foreknowledge, they could vote “yes” without thinking it through.
The slogan’s use of “reckless” seems like something my grandmother might have said to me when I was heading out on a Friday night with friends…Don’t be reckless…no reckless behavior…seems a little Brookline…
<
p>How about dusting off the old Vote No on Question 3 bumperstickers…they made the point in a more direct way:
<
p>”I’M MAD, BUT I’M NOT CRAZY
VOTE NO ON QUESTION #1″
The old slogan (Mad but not Crazy) was better.
Do you think Barney Frank is in danger of losing his seat because he has screwed the entire country.
<
p>These politicians are screwing around with a loaded gun.
a) I think you can lay the blame around, b) while we may have beliefs and opinions about what’s going to happen if the bailout passes, the truth is no one knows and c) the bill hasn’t even passed yet! Unless you’re talking about some other bill, you need to seriously take a second and think about retracting that comment. It’s foolish and ignorant.
My town would lose @ $1 millon – out of a $26 million town budget.
<
p>And we get no MWRA subsidy and other goodies not associated with Local Aid or Ch. 70. WE have NEVER gotten Additional Assistance.
<
p>My town is LEGION – and, we don’t get the Beacon Hill goodies. We should oppose this…why?
of firing Cynthia Stead and all other State Committee members(Democrat or Republican) on the state payroll?
How about the towns on the S. Shore who get a MBTA assessment—BUT—-no service!
<
p>Gotta love it!
Maybe if we ever get another speaker of the House in Massachusetts that is not a criminal/corrupt politician, then the tax payers might be more likely to believe that the state government isn’t a big frat party for the politicians and their corrupt family and friends. Should we even discuss Finneran? and now Dimasi is up to the same antic’s.
<
p>Finneran controlled the house like a dictator and now Sal is doing the same thing. That is not how our system was designed to work. Not by buying peoples votes with pork barrel promises or buying off reps with paying chairs.
<
p>Let’s talk about Cognos?
<
p>http://vps28478.inmotionhosting.com/~bluema24/s…
<
p>or Richard Vitale
<
p>http://www.boston.com/news/loc…
<
p>or Jay Cashman and Dimasi
<
p>http://www.boston.com/news/loc…
<
p>Tell me why the voters should should trust our leaders with their hard earned money?
Usually you’d get the screams of outrage and demands for documentation—-links—-who said?——, blah, blah, blah.
<
p>Some folks just can’t deal with the truth. They go into a fetal position and suck their thumbs, OR, they fly into a rage. What is it that some people have with reality and fact?
Let’s see a single post detailing where nearly $13 billion dollars of supposed waste would come from.