Blue Mass Group

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another OPEN THREAD: President’s farewell address

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If you've been holding on to something for, say, eight years or so, maybe now's the time to let it out …

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  3. the NPR commentators apparently got bored with raking over bush’s exit babble and spent a fair bit talking about obama instead, lol!

  6. and I hope this farewell is a farewell to the big-government neoconservative experiment.  I hope this is a farewell to our ridiculous age of increasing the national debt too!

    <

    p>God blessed me with the judgement to know this isn’t the right way, God bless me with the courage to bring us on the path that is.  

    <

    p>Is it okay for me to be a reasonable-sized-government, capitalist (but not radical) religious conservative without being CONSTANTLY compared to Bush now?  Please?

  7. I once came home on the night of one of GWB’s State of the Union addresses to find Lynpb enjoying a smoke and a drink in our yard with the TV turned up and angled so as to be visible through the door. “I thought I ought to watch,” she told me, “but I just couldn’t stand to be in the same room with him.”

    <

    p>Goodbye, George.  

  8. But I kinda felt bad for the guy, even though I really shouldn’t. Though, more so during his final press conference.  

  9. since you won’t be able to blame GW for anything for much longer. Oh sure there will be the “Obama inherited this problem…” bullshit for awhile. I just read on another post here today about Deval having to deal with inherited problems from the “prior administration”… BULLSHIT. When you take over the job you take over the problems and Deval has been Gov for 2 years. You might get a little honeymoon period but certainly the Gov has had enough time to be “responsible” for the state of the state AND before long Obama will be responsible for the bailout, the stimulus package success/failure,  the nation’s security, World peace, Oil/energy prices, inflation, ethics, the economy, healthcare costs, Social Security stability, immigration problems, higher education costs, K-12 performance, taxes, budget deficits, the National Debt, Osama, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Gay marriage, hurricanes, and God forbib we have a terrorist incident… with no GW or Republican Congress to blame. Let’s ALL enjoy the next week of Bush bashing.

    • Any success that comes to pass as a result of Bush’s actions or policies in the near future will, of course, be credited to Obama.  Any failures in the near future that are a result of something Obama does will be blamed on Bush.  Bush makes for the perfect scapegoat.

      <

      p>However, don’t think this is new or anything.  Obama may say he is the patron of change, but this is the same old song and dance that every presidency does.

    • because you continue to avoid evaluating the Bush Presidency. You imagine that it’s a problem for historians, not you. But Bush really did cause a number of problems. Here try these:

      1. Invading Iraq unnecessarily and basing that invasion on lies and distortions
      2. No planning for the invasion because it might undercut the politics
      3. Dismantling of the Iraqi army
      4. Allowing chaos in Iraq after the invasion that destroyed important parts of the infra-structure
      5. Not keeping track of billions of dollars in Iraq
      6. Appointing unqualified Republican operatives to run the Provisional Authority
      7. Mismanaging the many  contractors in Iraq: drinking water for troops, shoddy construction
      8. Not providing armor for our troops
      9. Conducting counter-insurgency in a counter-productive manner with too few Arab speakers and too much bombing
      10. Allowing the abuses at Abu Ghraib and then not handling it in a manner consistent with international law and allowing it to destroy the goodwill Iraqis originally had for the U.S.
      11. Mismanaging our relationships with our allies
      12. Lying about Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch
      13. Letting Osama bin Laden get away
      14. Permitting Afghanistan to sink into chaos again
      15. Neglecting of Arab-Israeli conflict
      16. Lying about no child left behind
      17. Willfully neglecting mine safety for the sake of the mine owners
      18. Ignoring food safety, e.g., problems with salmonella and the pet food poisonings
      19. Ignoring regulatory problems in the mortgage market
      20. Raising the allowable arsenic levels in water
      21. Politicizing the Justice Department
      22. Lying about social security, e.g., saying that private accounts would make the system solvent when they would make the system lesssolvent
      23. Destruction of EPA libraries
      24. Giving Iran and North Korea an incentive to arm
      25. Green light on India’s nuclear ambitions
      26. Violating FISA
      27. Abrogating FISA
      28. Pushing irresponsible tax cuts and running up gigantic deficits
      29. Filling FEMA with incompetent Republican operatives so that it was incapable of responding when Katrina hit New Orleans
      30. Using terror warning levels for political reasons
      31. Using of terrorism prosecutions for political reasons
      32. Holding innocents at Guantanamo and elsewhere without applying due process
      33. Torturing prisoners at Guantanamo and elsewhere

      What about #6? Why don’t you address #6 for us?

      • Do you want me to say “uncle” fine. Bush did all these things, and a lot more. Feel better? But I can’t help but comment on a few things

        <

        p>Invading Iraq unnecessarily and basing that invasion on lies and distortions
        >> Didn’t many Democatic leaders hear the same evidence and vote for the invasion?

        <

        p>No planning for the invasion because it might undercut the politics
        >> Do you really think there was “no planning”?

        <

        p>Dismantling of the Iraqi army
        >> OK.

        <

        p>Allowing chaos in Iraq after the invasion that destroyed important parts of the infra-structure
        >> OK, happens when people are uncivilized.

        <

        p>Not keeping track of billions of dollars in Iraq
        >> Happens in every war.

        <

        p>Appointing unqualified Republican operatives to run the Provisional Authority
        >> I’d address #6 but I have no idea what it is? Are you saying they ran the Iraqi POs?

        <

        p>Mismanaging the many  contractors in Iraq: drinking water for troops, shoddy construction
        >> You want to blame Bush for this? IF so, why not complain about the troop’s desert selection being limited…

        <

        p>Not providing armor for our troops
        >> OK. If you say so.

        <

        p>Conducting counter-insurgency in a counter-productive manner with too few Arab speakers and too much bombing
        >> Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy.

        <

        p>Allowing the abuses at Abu Ghraib and then not handling it in a manner consistent with international law and allowing it to destroy the goodwill Iraqis originally had for the U.S.
        >> Shit happens in wars. You find out, fix it and move on. Will you be blaming Obama if some Marine in Japan rapes a Japanese girl next year? Probably not.

        <

        p>Mismanaging our relationships with our allies
        >> If you say so. You forgot to mention how he messed up the UN.

        <

        p>Lying about Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch
        >> Big deal. Wait till you hear the “propaganda” from Obama over the next few years. It’s “bad news” now till he gets the Stimulus, but after that it will be “happy days are here again…” from the White House.

        <

        p>Letting Osama bin Laden get away
        >> I thought that was Clinton.

        <

        p>Permitting Afghanistan to sink into chaos again
        >> Is there any country in bad shape that “isn’t” his fault?

        <

        p>Neglecting of Arab-Israeli conflict
        >> Ya, his fault too. Don’t worry Obama is going to fix it.

        <

        p>Lying about no child left behind
        >> Will Obama be funding it?

        <

        p>Willfully neglecting mine safety for the sake of the mine owners
        >> Sure, GW’s fault again.

        <

        p>Ignoring food safety, e.g., problems with salmonella and the pet food poisonings
        >> GW killed a dog? This is getting silly.

        <

        p>Ignoring regulatory problems in the mortgage market
        >> Bill Clinton.

        <

        p>Raising the allowable arsenic levels in water
        >> Tastes fine to me.

        <

        p>Politicizing the Justice Department
        >> And THAT never happens (Hello my good friend Eric Holder).

        <

        p>Lying about social security, e.g., saying that private accounts would make the system solvent when they would make the system less solvent
        >> No lies there.

        <

        p>Destruction of EPA libraries
        >> They can use our library here in town.

        <

        p>Giving Iran and North Korea an incentive to arm
        >> So without GW both of these moron nations would be idly knitting sweaters. Come on KBusch…

        <

        p>Green light on India’s nuclear ambitions
        >> How about Paki?

        <

        p>Violating FISA
        >> The FISA Obama voted for?

        <

        p>Abrogating FISA
        >> Does te POTUS have that authority?

        <

        p>Pushing irresponsible tax cuts and running up gigantic deficits
        >> I liked the cuts. Deficits… you haven’t seen anything yet baby!!!!

        <

        p>Filling FEMA with incompetent Republican operatives so that it was incapable of responding when Katrina hit New Orleans
        >> Don’t you want to blame him for creating the hurricane, or building a fucking shithole city full of thugs and criminals below sealevel too?

        <

        p>Using terror warning levels for political reasons
        >> No terrorists attacks yet, think that will continue? How about Obama, think he will use anything for political reasons (economy…)?

        <

        p>Using of terrorism prosecutions for political reasons
        >> Such as?

        <

        p>Holding innocents at Guantanamo and elsewhere without applying due process
        >> I hope the lessons learned by the military is “shot” all combatants and take no prisoners. Or interogate in the filed then shot them for trying to escape. What will Obama do with these guys, get them a job in the new Administration?

        <

        p>Torturing prisoners at Guantanamo and elsewhere
        >> Whatever it takes is fine with me. I disagree with people like you who say don’t go beyond a limit even if the person can prevent a nuclear bomb from going off in a US city. Yes, a straw-man but a great example of where we disagree.

        • who had a very different opinion on what a president is responsible for while in office in the comment prior.  Come on John, you can’t even agree with yourself here.  

          <

          p>At some point you need to come to terms with Bush’s presidency and the Republican party’s philosophy over the past decade and it’s impact on our country.

          • I do know Bush did many things wrong, even he admits that. Some of them were very avoidable, some avoidable and some unavoidable. My mentions of Clinton are not to excuse Bush but to remark that Clinton was guilty of some of these things as well. I do not blame Bush for the mortgage crisis as an example (other than I do contend whomever the POTUS is gets the blame while they are in office).

            <

            p>At this point my view of Bush’s terms is not a favorable one at all. I will not say he did everything wrong and I think we will need a few years or terms of another President to grade Bush in terms of the “new world” we live in. Is this enough or do you need more admissions?

              • My comment on the Bush-bashing was that you guys only have a week more to so “enjoy” it while you can. Then we can start looking at how Obama will do things… like shut down Gitmo… or withdraw troops from Iraq by September.

                <

                p>I realize there will be plenty of Republicans for partisan zealots like yourself to attack, but not GW. The Democratic Stimulus package proposed by Congress is chuck full of $$$ for things which are NOT in line with what we need to fix this economy and I hope my Republican brothers rip it apart. I also hope they support the aspects which we badly need. You will be happy to still have them for a target for your harpoon-like vitriol and venom, calling them obstructionist… for opposing Obama. Plus my comments will provide easy fodder for your sharp tongue.

                • Secret message follows.

                  <

                  p>I know. You’re a secret liberal. You are offering “easy fodder” because you want to convince the world that conservatives are morons.

                  <

                  p>Very diabolical. I’m in on the plot. I’ll do my part.

                  <

                  p>Shhh!

            • There are plenty of blame to go around including Clinton.  But he was a major part of the problem, you can’t ignore that.  Focusing solely on Bush lets you off the hook in dealing with the Republican House and Senate where those brain surgeons created the legislation first place.  Bush never had an economic plan, it’s easy to forget that Bush and his fights with Greenspan in keeping rates low had a lot to do with keeping the fake housing market going.  He is to blame, instead of pushing the housing market sham, he could have actually tried to create a blueprint on how we could actually build our economy.  That might have helped, don’t you think?

              • You have a Dem POTUS and Democratic control of both houses. You guys can do almost anything you want (just like the Republicans had for 5 years). The problem is if you don’t fix things, you will be blamed for everything too… and replaced.

                <

                p>I also do NOT believe keeping interest rates low contributed to this mess. To be honest I have not heard anyone claim to know exactly what caused he crisis. There are thousands of guesses but no bona fide answers. Hopefully your team will fix it. Watch and see how the tactics of the past get reused again in the future.

                <

                p>4 more days and Obama gets blamed for EVERYTHING! We he repeal FISA… nope. Repeal the Bush tax cut… nope. Should be a very interesting time in history.

                • Not next week.  Clearly if we haven’t seen the tide turn prior to the next election Obama will have a tough time of it.

                  <

                  p>Artificial interest rates have been discussed in detail regarding being part of the problem.  The mortgage crisis, (thank Graham and his legislation to remove oversight and regulations in commercial banking).  But make no mistake creating an artificial interest rate was done to keep the housing market going even though it was not real.  It purposely created a bubble in our economy.  

                  <

                  p>You seem to have a lot of anger towards Democrats and Obama, I would say your anger could be better applied to those who created the mess.  John, I noted this elsewhere but you really need to review Republicans and Bush and what they have done instead of waiting to jump on someone else.  If Republicans did their job correctly we wouldn’t of had these problems.  Maybe you should invest some time and energy to actually get mad at those who caused the problems instead of getting ready to blame someone else.

                  <

                  p>Again, where would we be if Bush and the Republican’s on Capitol Hill actually spent some time to work on a long term plan for our economy?

        • Invading Iraq unnecessarily and basing that invasion on lies and distortions
          >> Didn’t many Democatic leaders hear the same evidence and vote for the invasion?
          No, in fact. Pro-war hints were escalated into evidence; anti-war evidence was downgraded.

          <

          p>No planning for the invasion because it might undercut the politics
          >> Do you really think there was “no planning”?
          Yes, Rumsfeld specifically forbade post-invasion planning.

          <

          p>Allowing chaos in Iraq after the invasion that destroyed important parts of the infra-structure
          >> OK, happens when people are uncivilized.
          Bullshit. Iraq was not uncivilized. This was a huge mistake in planning and reflected Rumsfeld’s insistence that this effort would not take too many troops.

          <

          p>Not keeping track of billions of dollars in Iraq
          >> Happens in every war.
          Bullshit again. This is simply not the case. Even in Vietnam there was not such loose accounting.

          <

          p>Appointing unqualified Republican operatives to run the Provisional Authority
          >> I’d address #6 but I have no idea what it is? Are you saying they ran the Iraqi POs?
          I suspect that you don’t know what your talking about. Can we ignore you now?

          <

          p>Conducting counter-insurgency in a counter-productive manner with too few Arab speakers and too much bombing
          >> Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy.
          Bullshit again: There is a lot of theory on how to conduct counter-insurgency. The Bush Administration ignored it.

          <

          p>Ignoring food safety, e.g., problems with salmonella and the pet food poisonings
          >> GW killed a dog? This is getting silly.
          Raising the allowable arsenic levels in water
          >> Tastes fine to me.
          I’m sorry. Flippancy is not an argument. Admit you’re wrong.

          <

          p>Politicizing the Justice Department
          >> And THAT never happens (Hello my good friend Eric Holder).
          Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about here. The Justice Dept specifically attempted only to hire Republicans. No previous Administration has dared to do this.

          <

          p>Lying about social security, e.g., saying that private accounts would make the system solvent when they would make the system less solvent
          >> No lies there.
          Uh, JohnD, can you not add numbers? Even Bush admitted this was misleading when eventually called on it.

          <

          p>Green light on India’s nuclear ambitions
          >> How about Paki?
          Do you even know what this is about? If not, how can you judge whether something is Bush hating. If you don’t have a clue, we can ignore your comments.

          <

          p>Giving Iran and North Korea an incentive to arm
          >> So without GW both of these moron nations would be idly knitting sweaters. Come on KBusch…
          Flippancy is not an answer. Can we ignore you now?

          I could go on, but since you don’t seem to care about your opinions very much, it doesn’t much matter does it?

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