Now does a double standard exist? It may appear so.
U.S. aims to help firms sidestep bailout rules!
Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30…
If this is the case and I am hoping it is a misunderstanding by the reporter and the Washington Post and MSNBC. I would suggest that Larry Summers and Tiny Tim Geithner have shown their true stripes and have been these last three months working on a frame work that says to their Fraternity Bros that we can protect your pot of gold gentlemen just watch and see.
Once again it appears that we are going to take it in the throat the wallet in our jobs in losing our homes and in dooming the generations that follow us to a mortgage that they will never see retired and a system of Aristocracy in the US that they will have to continue to serve.
21st Century Feudalism is alive and well and Barack appears to have turned his back on the peasants. I for one will not forget if this is allowed to stand and SHAME on our delegation if they don’t stand up and grow a spine and say NO!!
Please call write email and demand better! We have provided Billions in Bailouts to these bad boys now we are creating shelter scam corps to allow them to continue to rape this country and we the taxpayers. It must STOP if we hope to have a real future, killing the consumer in this fashion only assures us that we will never truly recover what our Parents and for some Grandparents enjoyed after their sacrifices in WWII.
Thank You
As Usual Just my Opinion
<
p>Link.
THANK YOU Woburn Dem.
It sounds too bad to be true. I’ll reserve judgment until we know more.
clearly Obama is not a progressive and has surrounded himself with corporatist sychophants.If we want him to do the right thing we have to force him to do it.This maintenance of the status quo by Obama was expected and predictable but it is still maddening nonetheless.
Glenn Greenwald’s take in Salon, if you haven’t read it already.
<
p>This is outrageous.
<
p>Remember when Teapot Dome was supposed to be synonymous with scandal? Apparently we’re now living through an era with a bigger and even more expensive insider corruption ring.
<
p>Mass public rage anyone?
The slugs of congress bring forward the “10 for 11” gang. Payday loans take in almost 400% interest.
<
p>Is it Demopublicans or Republicrats? I guess there’s no difference.
It is stories like this that are most distressing as the economy contiues to sink lower. Don’t be fooled by the last 3 weeks of the Bear Bounce the same occured in 1933 and then the bottom really fell out as earnings continued their deth spiral we saw that effect begin to return yesterday.
<
p>It would seem until we the voters muster enough spine to use our votes to penelize those who would abbandone Main Street to the leeches that are sucking the capitol from those who need it most we will continue to see our Economy on life support.
<
p>It is my Hope that as Obama returns from his tour of Europe and the G20 that he turns his focus squarely on these very real life situations and puts legislation forward to change it and just as importantly he MUST put forward a comprehensive set of new rules for the game until this happens we are not likely to see a recovery.
<
p>I usually suggest you call, write or email your Rep and Senator and I will suggest it again our voices do have an impact if it is often and load enough to be heard over the K-Street Crowd.
<
p>As Usual just my Opinion
I believe we still got the lesser of the two evils.
<
p>As with most of the people I speak with, I’m disappointed with the president being so deep in the pockets of the corporatists. Sure, his administration continues the
bailoutsstimulus of the previous administration, run by the same people that precipitated the problem, his justice department is loaded with RIAA lawyers that have their own agenda. The sins of the previous administration continue. But the man speaks in full sentences, hides his puppet strings better, has a nice family. Who could want more?<
p>Anyway, who you gonna call? What politician isn’t beholden to their corporate contributors? Few believe that contributions are for anything but payment for services. The corporations will spend wisely, for their own benefit.
1, being better than McCain or the GOP generally is beside the point now. And most of this was set up under Clinton anyway.
<
p>2, This is way beyond corporations and campaign contributions. At least corporations historically could employ a lot of people and had to fight each others’ interests occasionally. This is straight up looting by a relatively small number of people who also happen to control the production of knowledge in “economics.”
just summed up what the heck it was that they were doing, instead of just railing against it. It should been the first thing you did.
<
p>Now that I read it, though, I understand your anger. It’s not only stupid, but undemocratic and worse than signing statements.
<
p>Thanks @Shack for quoting Greenwald. Greenwald’s right. I’m about ready to go buy a pitchfork.
<
p>Finally, @John B Tipton, yes, but competently-run evil is still evil.
I voted for Kucinich.
As I recall, he wasn’t even on the primary ballot here. Write-in?
Just not actively campaigning. I voted for Obama in the general election.
Speak the truth and the fraternity boys in the Mass Media paint you as fringe.
Last September, I sent this email to a fellow blogger, about a story I had seen in August of 2008, well before the election –
<
p>
<
p>This was his reply –
<
p>
<
p>It may seem less farfetched to him now. And while the idea that hedge fund managers might have manipulated contract prices for political ends may be questionable, I STILL think that the administration as a whole is far too involved with the industry. I won’t even comment on the real estate bundlers, in the midst of a foreclosure crisis! I mean, really – Hillary got slammed for one Chinese bundler, but Obama had a HUNDRED?
Is there no safe haven? I mean really when Peter P makes as much sense as any one on BMG with his above comments. What a sad state we have entered, I for one celebrated last November and said finally Bush is gone and maybe integrity has returned to our Government. Now look at our comments and even the top 3 front-page posts the names may have changed but the results and the issues remain.
<
p>Where are we going? When Democrats and Republicans in Office look the same. When you look at the state of affairs in your neighborhood and you see the pain on everyone’s face and you wonder why. Change what change from one man to another and policies that simply do not change. I find the state of this Republic in the sorriest state yet. We are mired in a war that broke the financial back of Russia and forced their collapsed economy to make radical changes. Are we likely to suffer the same result? Now we sit in the largest Democracy (what ever the Hell that means today) and we are facing the same end result Billions spent running around in mountains, burying our youth and mortgaging our Nation to a point where we look like a Sub prime Nation. This result after we come off 8 years of a spend thrift Republican’s to what 4 years pf Bailout drunk Democrats. Who do we support next where do we turn?
<
p>Truly this nation is heading down the slippery slope. Maybe we need an American V who will rekindle our spirit. Who will be the Guy Fox of America?
<
p>Besides venting on BMG what do we have left but Revolt!!! Maybe we need to find the new John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington to wrest the control of our Democracy from the purses of Wall Street and return America to a land by the people for the people!
<
p>How sad it has become!
<
p>As Usual just my Opinion
“Besides venting on BMG what do we have left but Revolt!!! “
<
p>I think it’s worth asking two rather pointed questions:
<
p>1) What would you do differently
2) Why aren’t you doing that now?
<
p>It seems to me that an enormous part of the societal problem that we share today is that we all seem more focused on what somebody else can do, rather than on what we do.
<
p>There is a famous quote — “In order to make peace, each of us must be a peacemaker.”
<
p>I remain optimistic that we, collectively, have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done. We, collectively, bemoan the fact that “nobody is doing it”. So let’s do it.
<
p>In a perfect world, what would each of us be doing differently?
<
p>Why aren’t we doing that now?
I hope that some of you will read this transcript from the Bill Moyers NOW show that aired last night.
<
p>http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…
<
p>Here are some excerpts. The guest, who was a regulator during the savings and loan debacle, says that we’re looking at massive fraud pulled on the taxpayers.
<
p>BILL MOYERS: What is your explanation for why the bankers who created this mess are still calling the shots?
<
p>WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, that, especially after what’s just happened at G.M., that’s… it’s scandalous.
<
p>BILL MOYERS: Why are they firing the president of G.M. and not firing the head of all these banks that are involved?
<
p>WILLIAM K. BLACK: There are two reasons. One, they’re much closer to the bankers. These are people from the banking industry. And they have a lot more sympathy. In fact, they’re outright hostile to autoworkers, as you can see. They want to bash all of their contracts. But when they get to banking, they say, ‘contracts, sacred.’ But the other element of your question is we don’t want to change the bankers, because if we do, if we put honest people in, who didn’t cause the problem, their first job would be to find the scope of the problem. And that would destroy the cover up.
<
p>BILL MOYERS: The cover up?
<
p>WILLIAM K. BLACK: Sure. The cover up.
<
p>BILL MOYERS: That’s a serious charge.
<
p>WILLIAM K. BLACK: Of course.
<
p>BILL MOYERS: Who’s covering up?
<
p>WILLIAM K. BLACK: Geithner is charging, is covering up. Just like Paulson did before him. Geithner is publicly saying that it’s going to take $2 trillion – a trillion is a thousand billion – $2 trillion taxpayer dollars to deal with this problem. But they’re allowing all the banks to report that they’re not only solvent, but fully capitalized. Both statements can’t be true. It can’t be that they need $2 trillion, because they have masses losses, and that they’re fine.
<
p>These are all people who have failed. Paulson failed, Geithner failed. They were all promoted because they failed, not because…
<
p>[and later…]
<
p> BILL MOYERS: Yeah. Are you saying that Timothy Geithner, the Secretary of the Treasury, and others in the administration, with the banks, are engaged in a cover up to keep us from knowing what went wrong?
<
p>WILLIAM K. BLACK: Absolutely.
<
p>BILL MOYERS: You are.
<
p>WILLIAM K. BLACK: Absolutely, because they are scared to death. All right? They’re scared to death of a collapse. They’re afraid that if they admit the truth, that many of the large banks are insolvent. They think Americans are a bunch of cowards, and that we’ll run screaming to the exits. And we won’t rely on deposit insurance. And, by the way, you can rely on deposit insurance. And it’s foolishness. All right? Now, it may be worse than that. You can impute more cynical motives. But I think they are sincerely just panicked about, “We just can’t let the big banks fail.” That’s wrong.
The link you posted (Link: h ttp:/ http://www.msnbc.msn.comid/30…) wouldn’t past muster with a broke B movie producer. It’s a swirl of innuendo and cast aspersions without detail and without much specific mention of persons acting, actions taken or laws broken. There’s very little there, there. Oh, and it mentions Enron. Booga-booga-booga!!
<
p>I’m kinda shocked at this level of hysteria at BMG. Get a grip on yourselves, people. This is a hatchet job, pure and simple.
and Tim Geithner and the Banks and wall street have planted it squarely in our Backs.
<
p>Here is a link to the Moyers interview in its entirety
<
p>Link:http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html
<
p>You make a claim that this si all smoke and no fire where are your facts as of this morning this story is on over 10 pages of Google sites including the Wall Street Journal on line. I think this source to be extremely selective in what it posts and would in my own case accept this fact that we are not hysterical but outraged.
<
p>I would suggest to you that you look back to the months of my posts and see the mounting evidence that this economic collapse has been grossly mishandled that the focus has been to prop up the executives who have close ties to Lawrence Summers, Hank Paulson, Tim Geithner and do I dear say now the current and previous Presidents.
<
p>As an Economist I have mainly worked in the Micro Economic realm so I was a bit rusty on the Macro Economy, as it has evolved over the last 25 years certainly I had to catch up on the system of Swaptions and CDO’s and CDS’s. Which I did do. As a Student I recall working on the Depression models in the process of my course work and I am more then familiar with what was tried and what was not what worked and what did not. I feel we had a fairly solid model of systems and regulations that were born out of that crisis to move forward with.
<
p>It appears that no mousetrap is fool proof. Yet it should be clear that we never really tried the systems as they were created to try and solve this case. First and foremost FDIC should have taken control of Citigroup and BofA no doubt the evidence is clear just by the size and scope of the bailout it may have been cheaper for the American people to have rescued the depositors carved up the pieces and spread them out to the smaller healthier regional banks and allowed the investors and the top executives to take the hair cut. Going down the list we would find such Democrat oriented institutions such as Goldman Sacks, and more neutral Merrill Lynch, Lehman Bros and the list goes on to sink or swim based on their ability to make cuts in operation and thus size and to trim earnings and short investors if they remained insolvent and still wanted to reform into Holding Companies then FDIC could work its magic once again. Last of the bad boy crowd was AIG. AIG is a really interesting case and I am sure will make several if not hundreds of Doctoral thesis’s on how they were handled and could have been handled. I prefer the latter first they should have been put into bankruptcy the units and this was most would have then been some what isolated by the courts and sold or spun off. Certainly the retail insurance divisions that were at their core would appear to have been solid. There Leasing operations were taking hits but not to the extent that the Fincial Sector Division was and may have had value when the leases were sold off or the division it self found a buyer. Well worth the attempt. Now as for the Bad Boy division located in London that division should have been sacked on the spot, by this I am not suggesting the rank and file hourly workers but the top 10-20% of the division should have been terminated forth with instead we see only about 1-2 % were let go or left. This would have then defaulted on their CDS’s with out a doubt and this would then have forced Banks American as well as Foreign to raise additional revenue to raise reserves that were artificially reduced because of these insurance instruments know as Credit Default Swaps. This may have even resulted in more banks becoming unstable and even insolvent when faced with the fall in real Value for property. Here again this is what we have FDIC for and we have seen Great Britain do the same for RBC and Barclays. Would we have had to put a Trillion or maybe 2 Trillion into FDIC not likely but maybe. Would FDCI solve the problems not 100% you still need to raise capitol to give to banks to loan and this could have been done through the FED thrift window with the regional banks as the lender of last resort with interest rates down and the major loses adjusted regional banks would have seen new business and potentially better business that has been reserved for the big boys which are no longer 4 or even a dozen of the regional banks would have grown substantially and filed the void over time as the system began to function. This slower rebuilding would in the short run have created greater Job pressure but would have taken the losses all at once and moved forward with recovery. As of today we have neither under the plan under implementation and the mortgage grows daily. Now on job creation I would suggest two approaches on is 1 Trillion in a 2-3 year federal stimulus that focused on directed tax cuts for the bottom 95%, stimulus credits for R&D for all firms focused mainly on our strength industries like Bio Tech, Computer science, and Alternative Energy, I would have revoked all federal subsidies tot he Oil and Gas industry that was not specifically targeted to R&D of new sources not new drilling. Lastly would be infrastructure projects and expansion of health care and I would first adopt the plan floated 4 years ago where he US assume all catastrophic Health coverage as a starting point. Any claim over $50,000 for any individual would be underwritten by Medicare not private health insurance. Would it work well I do not have a crystal ball and it is likely we will not see if it would since we are now well over 3 Trillion into this mess and to Quote Tiny Tim Geithner from last week it may take 1-2 Trillion more.
<
p>May I indulge just one additional point in 2008 the GDP was $14.7 Trillion that is the value of all goods and services produced in the United States and its Territories we have taken a mortgage out in just 3 months that is 30% of that figure and if the federal deficit number is true we will take another mortgage of 20-30% this that puts us at 50-60% of our total Income, Now in an off hand comment this certainly sounds like the kind of numbers floated by the critics of Sub Prime loans. A standard Mortgage caps you at 31-38% of gross. Well we blow that right out of the water and the number grows every day as the system continues to limp along. So hatchet job NO I would suggest FRAUD on a grand scale and a total cover up of the problems and causes for this disaster.
<
p>Link to WSJ on line link to Washington Post article and MSNBC http://obama.wsj.com/article/0…
<
p>As Usaul just my Opinion
Of what we could do the devil is in the reregulation of the industry and that may be another post some day
<
p>As Usual Just my Opinion
Neither the WaPo piece (seen here via MSNBC) nor the Moyers transcript makes specific allegations backed up by anything approaching evidence. The Moyers piece is a general overview of the crisis with some vague assertions of nefarious behaviour.
<
p>The only proof or evidence asserted in the MSNBC piece are declarative sentences and the active voice. We’ve been here before. This is highly reminiscent of the 90’s era ‘journalism’ that gave us Whitewater, travelgate, Fort Marcy Park and the ultimate impeachment.
<
p>
That the host of evidence that has been presented over Months of investigation is totally false or over representative of the events,. May I suggest that you support your point with something of equal or greater substance? Your assertion carries far less creditability then the host of evidence offered does.
<
p>If you cannot then I suggest you may want to get your head out of the sand and look around. This economy is continuing to sink. Unemployment at well over 8.5% when you consider those off the roles and those underemployed who were employed full time before this down turn has pushed the mark well into the teens. This alone promises to begin a new wave of foreclosures and job losses simply as a result of the lost revenue in the markets and a serious reduction in consumption (demand). Wall street is in a bear bounce currently and is only reacting to job cuts as a short-term solution to maintaining Profit Margins thus return on investment. As new waves of Financial losses occur and the call for increased margins follow as a result we are likely to see the drop return. At the very best we are treading water but for how much longer?
<
p>Your comments ad little to the discussion with out some facts or any facts to support them
<
p>May I offer you this link and article?
<
p>http://robertreich.blogspot.co…
<
p>It’s a Depression
<
p>To further support my position. May I suggest you do the same petr
<
p>As usual just my Opinion
(made on the Moyers show) that nothing is being done to determine how the banks got into this mess in the first place? I don’t mean in a general way, but exactly how much are the bad ‘assets’ really worth?
<
p>What about the allegation that the same people who were in charge when all the problems occurred are still in their high positions?
<
p>And the statement that banks can’t have it both ways. They can’t need all this government bailout money and still be in such a sound condition that they don’t need management changes and aggressive oversight.
<
p>Geithner was in an influential position at the Federal Reserve when the toxic, complex financial transactions were taking place. It was his job to provide some real oversight there. He didn’t, by his own admission.
<
p>I don’t think anyone can dispute these facts.
<
p>By the way, I’m not out to ‘get’ Obama. I voted for him and made a small donation. I like some of what he is doing, namely regarding stem cell research, women’s rights, and the environment. But this coddling of Wall Street at the expense of the taxpayer doesn’t pass the smell test.
<
p>The side shows of Whitewater and travelgate pale in comparison to the real damage that is being done by the too-big financial institutions.
<
p>I don’t know much about those allegations. I do know that most of the (original) mortgage writers are now broke and outta business (or swallowed up by larger firms who are themselves either broke, or breaking). I suspect, but don’t know for certain, that since a great deal of loans were actually fraudulent (f’rinstance, a migrant field worker in Texas, who spoke no English, was given a 750,000 mortgage.. ??) that much of the paperwork either can’t be trusted, or can’t be found.
<
p>
<
p>Like whom? Henry Paulson? George Bush? Robert Rubin? AIG was decapitated when it was nationalized. Whole new management. The same goes for Fannie Mae and Freddi Mac. All the executives from Bear Stearns, Lehman Bros, Morgan-Stanley and Merril Lynch are unemployed. Citigroup is hanging on by a thread (with a new CEO, too…) Goldman Sachs as well… These are the people who were ‘in charge’. They are no longer. The lions share of the problem were created by the above mentioned companies. There may be others who’ve, so far, ‘scaped whipping. I wish I could say I cared all that much about punishment at this point. I don’t. I think we’re still asea, fighting the lee shore and the shoals approaching. Not the time, I think, to punish the helmsman for falling asleep…
<
p>
<
p>I don’t know about either admissions or oversight. I do know that Greenspan wasn’t keen on regulations (he, has since, regretted this stance). . I don’t think Geithner is perfect, nor… in fact… do I think that Geithner regards himself in this way. That, perhaps perversely, is why I like him in the job. Greenspan, it is clear, did believe he could walk upon water. Paulson as well. The jury is still out on Bernanke. Throughout all of this brouhaha, Bernankes’ been given a pass by Krugman who’s shown little reluctance to criticize where criticism is due (and sometimes when it isn’t). So there something there.
<
p>
<
p>I just did.
<
p>First off Paulson and Bush are gone only because of Term limits on this administration they would still be their making bad decisions if not for that.
<
p>AIG is not nationalized if it had been we would not have had the discussion about bonus payouts and contracts we would have been able to wipe them off the books and run the companies we the American People saw fit. The CEO and Board were removed so you got half a point for this one
<
p>Fannie and Freddie lost CEO’s correct. But you should take into consideration the golden Parachutes they received as we threw them out into the street. Maybe equal to 40 years of the average workers salaries
<
p>Bear Sterns Cayne left as the collapse started he was not fired he also on his way out the door Sold off his Stock to the tune of 60 Million this just after selling 15 Million 6 months prior.
<
p> http://money.cnn.com/video/for…
<
p>Lehman Bros did not just cut the head off the snake the roasted the entire snake not really in the same logic you have used thus far so no points for this one either sorry
<
p>Morgan Stanley Flat out Wrong
<
p>John Mack has been acting CEO since 2005 when Phil Purcell left in 2008 Another one wrong
<
p>Merrill Lynch John Thain did not lose his job until his new CEO BofA kicked him to the curb for redecorating the office. BofA CEO is still standing and taking TARP money.
<
p>CitiGroup may be the most interesting of your incorrect answers Pantib is still solidly in as CEO even after his whining in 2008 he received a bonus of 10.8 million for job performance and his letter in Mid February of profits raining down on Citi may or may not have saved him from the unemployment line we will have to see the earnings report later this month. I would also add that of all of the CEO’s you list this guy is the biggest fool left standing. Remember it was under his leadership that Citi bought a premium ABN AMRO from RBS just as the sub prime death spiral hit and is one of the leading causes for Citi’s near collapse. I think that the Executive compensation board should over look that fact once again and award him another bonus don’t you.
<
p>Regarding Greenspan’s comments you cut and paste well
<
p> http://www.npr.org/templates/s…
<
p>Alan Stated that his trust in the grownups of Wall Street to have the integrity to do the correct thing was Flawed. He treated them like grownups when he should have treated them like the children they behaved like.
<
p>As Far as Tim Geithner goes WE WILL SEE. Thus far I am not willing to give Tim a pass I am deeply disappointed by the shadow corps he is creating to Launder TARP money. I am deeply disappointed with the lack of Regulations. I am deeply disappointed by his handling of AIG and a failure to separate the corporation into its parts and not Isolate the Financial services sector. Thus far between the Fed and Treasury we have either bonded or printed upwards of 3 Trillion American Dollars to this disaster and we are talking about another 1-2 Trillion needed with out any consideration to the cost of rising unemployment and other social safety net programs as the economy continues to drop, the moves thus far to bolster Middle incomes have virtually been wiped out with Local and soon to be state tax increases so we take from this pocket and put it into that pocket provides no meaning full relief or ability to increase consumption. We are still seeing foreclosure rate climb and don’t get me started on the refi program LOL this is a real joke where people are now required to carry PMI on ever refi and this pushed monthly payments higher then they were before.
<
p>It is very important to fact check in this crisis to much is put out that is untrue and irrelevant. This is a real crisis, which demands real answers so far we have little of both.
WaPo has administration sources saying that Treasury is setting up a “special purpose vehicle” to
launder moneychannel bailout funds to the big recipients, for the express purpose of exempting the recipients from restrictions that Congress has placed on that money.<
p>Unless the sources are wrong, that strikes me as plenty to get worked up about. Let’s assume the sources are right. What’s your theory about why that’s OK?
<
p>My theory is that the sources are wrong. What about that don’t you get…
<
p>Me: It’s a hatchet job…
<
p>You: Ok… but what if it isn’t…?
<
p>Me: It is a hatchet job.
<
p>You: Ok… but what if it weren’t a hatchet job… how do you explain it…?
<
p>Me: I can’t explain it outside of the context in which it exists…
<
p>You: Ok, Ok… but if you could explain it…?
<
p>Me: AAAIIRRGGHH!!!
<
p>I called it a ‘hatchet job’. That means I think either A) the sources are wrong or 2) their facts are being spun so strongly they’re beginning to exert their own gravity. Take your pick.
<
p>When my children were little, and they were scared and said things like “But Daddy, what if the monsters under the bed get me…?” , I would pin them down and tell them they were infested with ‘what-if’ demons and that the only cure was to tickle it outta them… AFter we had a good tickle and a good laugh, I explained to them that some of the most powerful fears begin with “What if…”
<
p>And I then would explain to them that no matter how little comfort the situation affords us, that is no reason (or excuse) to draw from it more dread than is to be found.
<
p>Now calm down, and don’t make me tickle you…
A Hatchet job is all you think this. Man wake up!
<
p>
<
p>Now if it were just one or two articles I would also be a bit pessimistic as well but this is months of written material from historically extremely reliable sources and to date the hardest hitting stuff has not been refuted
<
p>As far as Tim Geithner goes maybe you should read this
<
p>http://www.lifeandhealthinsura…
<
p>This is from a Highly respected trade publication and it outlines how Tim Geithner as NY FED chief structured the bailout of AIG last year where he used a shadow group to try and process out the bad investments by buying up the bonds behind them. Why would you think it is such a stretch to see him do it again to shelter the same group from other regulations?
<
p>This is a pattern of behavior and a set of values he has operated under for a long time. Now if it works he is a golden boy for saving Wall Street from it self but my god at what cost to the taxpayers and our Country. Some times there is a monster in the closet petr. and in this case it maybe Tim Geithner. The Wonder Boy Barack chose to get his administration out of this mess. Seems like he hired one of the Hens to rule the roost.
<
p>As Usual just my Opinion
<
p>Great. What’s your evidence?
<
p>petr: uh, I don’t have any. I just think they’re wrong.
<
p>Very constructive.