Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

Barney Frank confronts the wingnuts

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… and who better to do it? Proof that the most Democratic state does indeed contain its share of the utterly unhinged, Barney Frank found himself confronted by a woman brandishing a picture of Obama with a Hitler mustache, calling the health care bill a “Nazi policy.”

… It is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated.

Oh, indeed.

… And to our resident conservatives: Do you agree with this sentiment? Is health care reform a “Nazi policy”? Are you proud of such “popular uprising”? And if the question is unfair, how?

(Thought exercise: Imagine what would be happening at this site if President Bush had been interrupted at his gatherings by a bunch of 9/11 Truthers.)

Update: I'm told that the Mass. GOP has condemned the comparison. That's constructive!

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  1. She is part of a libertarian-esque group, affiliated with LaRouche.  The shock was almost funny when one member asked about the evil Federal Reserve and Frank replied that he and Ron Paul were working together to audit the Fed (a cause dear to their hearts).  And the only people they hate more than the Democrats is the Republicans.

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    p>They see a national health plan as the beginning of eugenics, hence the Nazi stuff.  I think they’re wrong. I tried to tell one young man that there’s a difference between truth and hyperbole.

    <

    p>But we both think national health is catastropically expensive, so we both oppose the plan.

    <

    p>BTW – the whole ‘organized from above’ meme?  Go ahead and TRY to organize and manipulate this crew – it’d be like herding cats.

    • PP, after 8 years you wake up and you’re worried about spending to much money???

      <

      p>What is “catastropically expensive” is the status quo of our health care system…we simply can not afford the current course and we need to change direction.  Yes, changing direction requires an upfront investment, but the end result will be cheaper.  

      • PP, after 8 years you wake up and you’re worried about spending to much money???

        <

        p>It’s never too late to stop digging.  Spending in past 8 years:  Medicare part D.  Growing to 1.3% of GDP.  What a mistake; it should have been means tested.  But the democrats objection was that it didn’t spend enough!

        <

        p>So, to you, the status quo is too expensive and changing the direction is the answer, but the direction change isn’t a cost saver, or if it is, there are certainly no details.  Democrats say ‘end the donut hole’.  That’s cost saver?

        <

        p>Obama:  “No one is talking about reducing Medicare benefits”.  Given that the >65 group is obviously the most expensive, then where’s the savings?

        <

        p>Give me a detail.  How does this plan save money?  People aren’t stupid.  They know that if you insure the people who aren’t insured, the people who are insured will pay for it.

  2. and not her.  

    <

    p>However, were one to say to me “Joe, do you think the Nazi’s would be in favor of government-run health insurance?”  I would say yes.  That in of itself does not exclude something from being on the table, however, since some things the Nazis did were beneficial.  

    <

    p>Framing it in a context to merely make it a scare tactic, not acceptable.  

    <

    p>I was struck by the fact that he said medicare needs more money but that would be cut to the tune of 500 billion to pay for this reform.    Once again, all it looks like to me is more dollar signs I’m going to spend the rest of my life paying to no avail.  

      • I had always found hardcore Paulites to be the creepiest political minority.  Alas, the denizens TX14 got nothing on these wackadoos.  

        • are Larouchies?  Granted they aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed, but they are in the core of the Republican party.  Whether you like it (or not).

            • Which one of Garafolo, Sheehan and McKinney were the Democratic Party’s nominee for vice president last year?  Which one of them have been apologized to by the chair of the DNC?  Which of them has their own prime-time television show?  Where can I hear any of these people on the radio?

              <

              p>That you would compare these marginalized or irrelevant figures on the left to three of the most prominent conservatives/Republicans shows you are either being completely disingenuous or how little you think of the people who vote for your party’s candidates.

              • Hasn’t Garofalo had SEVERAL shows?  TV, Air America, etc.  that just keep failing?

                <

                p>Naturally, because they are all women, none was a Democratic nominee…

                • Are you seriously arguing that Garofalo, Sheehan and McKinney have now or have ever had as much influence on the Democratic Party as Limbaugh, Beck and Palin currently have on the Republicans?

              • Garafolo, Sheehan and McKinney don’t have the brains, balls or backing to run for anything. None of them could handle a prime-time TV show either and you could have listened to Garafolo on Air America but you would have been alone so they pulled the plug.

                <

                p>Rush and Beck are hugely successful but their number still are low compare to the 3 liberal networks (NBC, ABC and CBS) plus PBS and NPR. The libs own the media and these 2 are stars amongst the rabble. We could try to point out some notable libs on air but they mostly suck (TV and Radio) but until we can buy more companies we will have to fight the fight.

                <

                p>HOWEVER, I know none of those people speak for me from a political or ideological standpoint. They do a great job of waking up conservatives and rallying people for support but none of them are spokesman for the party. Does BILLIONAIRE George Soros speak for all Democrats?

                • They have a bunch of grumpy old white guys with tokens thrown in to appear all-encompassing. For example: Governor Patrick, he’s powerless. Yes, they talk a good game.  

                • Being told they have a naked emperor. or perhaps their bigotry being brought out of the dark recesses of their closet.

                • people around here just don’t like you.  More precisely, they don’t like your comments of bigotry, your comments of victimhood, and your comments of a purely asinine nature.

                  <

                  p>No, I’m not going to link to them.  Lots of folks around here know you’ve made them, and if they’re like me, they’re just plain tired of them.  Bring some ‘googleleather’ like Gary, some GOP insight like Peter, or even just some humor like EBIII.  Hell, bring some flat out conspiracy-crazy like Lasthorseman.  Add something of value to the discussion.

    • It was part of Hitler’s master race ideology and to aid with the war effort. What the wing nuts fail to understand is that the Germans rid themselves of the Nazis, but kept government health care.

      <

      p>I’ve also heard the teabaggers argue liberals are fascist. The Nazi were named Nationalist Socialist Party and hence corporatism has no role only linguistics.

      <

      p>The teabaggers also preach that Hitler was a vegetarian and some liberals are vegetarian —- Fascists!

      <

      p>Can’t reason with crazy people. They will yell whatever Glenn Beck tells them to.

      • on asbestos and lung cancer.  

        <

        p>You are wrong about something though.  The Germans didn’t rid themselves of the Nazis, WE rid the OURSELVES of them.  With guns.  And bombs.  

        • about the differences between run of the mill democrats and “progressives” fails to differentiate between any sectarianism in the Republican party.  Either we are one, or we are supporting/enabling/feeding them by not denouncing them loud enough or with enough frequency.  

          • From 2001 to 2008, Democrats were tarred with everything the Larouchies, International ANSWER, Code Pink, or some random anarchist street-theater enthusiast ever did.  Hell, some random moron submits a Bush=Hitler video to a MoveOn contest and it’s a national news story for a week.

            <

            p>The difference is, the real nuts on the left are marginalized in national discourse and hold absolutely zero influence with the Democratic party.  On the right, nuts like Glen Beck who call the president a racist and insinuate he’s going to lock everyone away in FEMA camps get their own radio and TV shows.

            • rather than the Republican Party.  

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              p>Fox News wants to make money.  Glenn Beck has more viewers than anyone on the other major networks.  Therefore, he’s going to get his own show so that Fox News can continue to make money.  

              <

              p>Maybe you should point your ire at the millions who watch him and allow his show to stay on the air.  

              <

              p>You have as much a connection between the Republican Party and Beck as Bush did for Saddam and al Quaeda.  Nothing beyond ideological agreement.  

  3. is essentially anyone NOT enrolling in Medical Insurance will be penalized 2.5% of their reported income. I have asked about the 45 million uninsured “Americans” including about a third (1/3) of people who make between $40k and $75K. This would mean these people will be paying between $1,000 – $1,900/year penalty. Is everyone ok with this piece of the bill (which I have never heard anyone talking about)?

  4. I had to watch the whole thing as it is so refreshing to see someone call it like it is and not take any of the crap. I wish we had more Barney Franks.

    <

    p>People surprised to find out it’s August. Heh.

  5. Barney Frank is probably the best member of our delegation to confront these people.  One thing I’ve always liked about him is he doesn’t broach a lot of nonsense.

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    p>It appears that my instinct about the MA GOP still being reasonable has been borne out.  I’m glad to hear it.

    • … comment:

      Voters don’t have a great deal of knowledge about the issues, or a great deal of interest in acquiring knowledge about the issues. But they are human beings, equipped with our species’ excellent ability to read the emotional states of other human beings. If they see a politician acting defensive about his “side” in an argument, they conclude that this critics are probably on to something. If they see a politicians acting outraged and hitting back fearlessly, they’re likely to conclude that he has nothing to apologize for.

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