Blue Mass Group

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Ding Dong the CLT is dead….

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The GDT reports that Barbara Anderson’s organization Citizens for Limited Taxation is on its last financial legs due to a slump in donations… to which I can only say, Gosh, it sure stinks when people don’t want to pay for services…. you know, like taxes that pay for all those things like schools and roads, firefighters and police?

Accountability and transparency – absolutely – but ultimately we build the community we are willing to pay for and Prop. 2.5 and the efforts of folks like BA have driven our communities into the dirt. I’ll be sure to invite her up for the next school closure party – she can wear her Peter Pan outfit again.

http://www.gloucestertimes.com…

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  2. You mean the Barbara Anderson who supports the initiative process, except when the vote doesn’t go her way?  Take the Greyhound Protection Act for example.  She has publicly stated that lawmakers should suspend the law and make citizens vote on it again.  According to Barbara:

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    I’d like to see last year’s dog racing issue back on the statewide ballot too, placed there by animal-loving legislators who could suspend the new anti-racing law until voters have a chance to reconsider laying off all Massachusetts greyhounds.

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    p>But that’s not the only ballot question she thinks should be “reconsidered.”  She also thinks that citizens should have to vote again on a trapping ban that was overwhelming passed in 1996:

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    Legislators don’t have to collect signatures, they just take a majority vote in both branches to place an advisory question on the statewide ballot. They could do the same thing about the anti-trapping law, that was passed by initiative petition in 1996. I voted for it, but wouldn’t mind seeing it reconsidered in light of new information, i.e., all those coyote-eaten cats that we didn’t think about when we were saving beavers.

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    p>Regardless of how you feel about these issues, most people agree that the will of the voters should be upheld.  Barbara tries to claim that she supports the will of the voters, but when the rubber meets the road we find out that she really doesn’t, at least when the vote doesn’t go her way.

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    p>Finally, it is particularly galling that Barbara thinks these issues should be put back before voters, without opponents having to collect even a single signature.  Apparently, she thinks the process should work differently for her – and the causes she supports – than for everyone else.

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    p>Maybe some of her ballot questions should be “reconsidered,” based on the very standard she is using.

  3. An organization sworn to saving us from waste and inefficiency became a victim of its own waste and inefficiency.  Perhaps they didn’t need four full-time employees to lick envelopes and issue press releases, di they?

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    p>Here are a few of my favorite excerpts from their fundraising appeal:

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    Three of us are looking into collecting unemployment compensation (except for Barbara, who is on Social Security).

    Thankfully, we have a government safety net in place to support these poor people.

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    If one more of us remaining three staffers — Barbara Anderson, Chip Faulkner, or me — depart permanently, in my opinion there can and will be no chance of CLT ever happening again. It will become just a 35-year piece of history in Massachusetts politics — a wonderful memory; a sudden vulnerability for taxpayers.
      And you will be on your own.

    Wait a minute, I thought this was a grassroots movement?

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    For your interest and contemplation:  Just the taxes alone on the four CLT salaries for a four-week month like September are $2,754.20 — October is a five-week month thus the taxes will be more.

    Yep, just taxes, folks.  Nothing else to see here.

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    p>Every contribution to this dying, bloated organization is a pay cut… every contribution you don’t make to this dying, bloated organization is a pay raise.  

      • and I am not just giving the devil her due.

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        p>Proposition 2-1/2 resulted in replacing huge chunks of the regressive, iniquitous property tax with the income tax. As a progressive I’d like some more of that.

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        p>The progressive success of Prop. 2-1/2 in its first decade was based on a solid commitment by the state legislature to fund a significant portion of local services with income-tax revenues. The hollowing out of that commitment year after year has dealt a grievous blow not just to fairness but to the Commonwealth’s own capacity for prosperity.

        • Prop 2 1/2 would have been much more effective if the driving philosophy had been accountability and responsibility rather than greed. Long term it’s a disaster.

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          p>It’s worth repeating that the CLT’s association with MassResistance seriously devalues their message.  

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          p>Barbara and the CLT combine the worst of the neocon instincts — an “I got mine” approach to the budget and tolerance of discrimination as long as it doesn’t affect them.

          • and I am not a fan. But, the law is the law, not what CLT says it is. If anything, Barbara Anderson’s attacks on the income tax have undermined her greatest achievement, by increasing pressure to raise the property taxes in most communities.

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            p>If there were a doctrine of legislative intent for referendums, it would relate to the intentions of the voters, not the sponsors. Voters went for 2-1/2 because local taxes were too high, period. No other driving philosophy implied.

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            p>What I think is interesting is how Massachusett’s progressive and humanitarian instincts made lemonade from 2-1/2 for so long (and could still do so).

            • I don’t think we really disagree.  What I’m saying is prop 2 1/2 was marketed to people’s greed, rather than accountability.  Barabara et al simlply didn’t care about the long term.  Eventually the chickens came home to roost.  There’s no such thing as a free lunch…

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              p>As you (and Ryan) say, there’s good to be squeezed out of this.  Taxes are not inherently good, or bad.  One of my biggest problems with trickle down was the theory that cutting taxes magically makes things better.  It doesn’t.  

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              p>I’m a much bigger fan of tax incentives and targeted cuts.

    • it was a great thing… if you consider it an example of irresponsible governing.

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      p>Don’t get me wrong — I think the idea of a prop 2 1/2 isn’t a bad one. I don’t think town meeting or the city council should just be able to vote on their own to build a new school (raising the taxes to do it), for example, but to demand towns stay under the rate of inflation when some of their biggest costs are are becoming more expensive at 3-4x the rate of inflation, it is not “a great thing.” A bill that would have forced town votes when going above and beyond the status quo, level funding services, would have been both accountable and responsible… but accountability and responsibility has NEVER been Barbara Anderson and Carla Howell’s goals.  

      • I know a standard response may be we have the power to elect people but that doesn’t always work. We often see politicians line their pockets and their friends/lobbyists pockets with our money and we are powerless to do anything but “vote them out” the next time. That’s not good enough for me and we have created a mechanism for crooks to get rich and then leave office unscathed (except for the very greedy ones like your buddy Sal).

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        p>Our country and our politicians are spending addicts, they have never seen a buck they couldn’t spend and then borrow and spend 2 more bucks. Without some controls they would simply spend themselves (and us) to death. 2-1/2 brought control to an uncontrollable situation. I’ve been on the losing side of many 2-1/2 votes and we are planning for a big vote in the Spring for a new high school. But if the people of my town vote against the new high school then I believe it is the will of the people, however stupid I might find that decision. We will have to live with home devaluation and any other negative effect but that is how this country should work.

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        p>It is sad that we even had to enact a 2-1/2 type law but without it God only knows what life would be like here. 2-1/2 is the ultimate sign of freedom and power of the people.

        • My town was SHACKLED by this abomination of a law!  We couldn’t keep our library open; we couldn’t keep some school programs, including basic subjects; we couldn’t have more than one fire station or two police cruisers at one point.  It’s been an unmitigated disaster as far as I’m concerned.  The people never look beyond their own self-interests while our electeds are supposed to look out for the common good.  Yes, vote them out if you don’t like it or run yourself.

          • You may differ with what the majority wants but that’s the way it is. I didn’t want Obama as POTUS but the majority did so I have to live with it.

            • It may be what the town wants or thinks it wants, but we are still holding ourselves in bondage whereas we must liberate ourselves to dream big and be a great town.  These votes are perfect examples of the tyranny of the majority.

              • The residents who always vote against any override will with unwavering certainty blame their usual bogeypersons – teachers, firefighters, and DPW workers. Because those groups have functioning unions that actually get them benefits and (sometimes) living wages, they are resented by the nonunionized citizenry who don’t have the good sense to unionize themselves. (No, I am not currently a union member, and haven’t been for thirty years. I am also not deluded about the huge disadvantages to not having collective bargaining working for me.)

                • of criticizing the power of the majority while defending and supporting the rights of a “union” majority?

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                  p>In the long run, residents get whatever they want. Some towns have to wait for large elderly voting groups to “die off” before they see movement. You can look at 2 almost identical towns but with differing demographics and you’ll see very different results. As I said, I have been on the losing side of many of these votes but I still support the idea of self-control and self-governing since we cannot rely on our public officials. Look at this financial mess and government has fallen asleep at the helm over and over. It continues to this day and I am losing faith daily that it will ever change (what a bullshit line… change).

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                  p>I hope we never lose that power and I do thank Barbara and CLT for getting just a little bit of that power back from the crooks who jokingly call themselves honorable. HA!

                • that apples and oranges are essentially the same will no doubt see your ‘irony.’ Those who know of the many differences between the common interests of workers and the disparate interests of the general population will see your conflation as superficial to the point of absurdity.

                • conflation as superficial to the point of absurdity

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                  p>The genius of 2-1/2 reminds me of…

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                  My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.

                  Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) Third president of the United States.

      • …do you not think a town meeting or city council should be able to vote these things on their own?  It seems to me that they should be fully competent to legislate, including raising taxes, on matters pertaining only to their own community.

  5. First of all, you are counting unhatched chickens. The email you cite is a fund raiser, not a death rattle.

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    p>Second of all, and I say this with no particular affection for the woman, we could learn something from studying Barbara Anderson.

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    p>Third, blaming Anderson for Gloucester’s fiscal woes (or those of any community) only lets the legislature off the hook, the only party that can fix things

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    p>Finally, reflect that groups like CLT succeed in reaction to bad government. Sadly that is not in short supply. Pop no champagne corks yet.

    •  Not enough hacks are losing their jobs.

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      p>http://www.bostonherald.com/ne…

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      p>Governor Patrick: All due respect, but you and your friends are sickening. I hope they support you when you’re unemployed. Next year can’t come fast enough.

      • Here’s hoping over the next year, you’re able to calm down and stop oozing out the nasty and unhelpful rhetoric that does you or no one else any favors.  

        •  Once again, the Emperor/governor needs to be told his trousers are lost.
          I don’t think all the laid off state workers are voting with him either.
          I am trying to temper my nastiness and possibly give an outside opinion, but the weekly legislature stupidity won’t let me.

          • but does anyone know how many people have been added since Deval took over? Is this a “3 step forward but one step back” kind of cut?

              • I’ve seen that comment a number of times, usually on newspaper online forums posted by people complaining about Deval Patrick, but it doesn’t seem realistic to me. I wonder if the figure includes replacement for employees who turned over, as in “6,000 retired, 7,000 were added to replace them, 1,000 new positions were created”. Cleverly worded, it could be said that “7,500 were added”, but that wouldn’t represent the entire picture.  

          • …you need to do better than linking to a Herald article and adding a few insults.

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            p>Being rude is not fighting the power.

            • Has more feeling for amimals than he does for disabled people. Ain’t an insult if it’s true.  

              • Setting aside Governor Patrick’s position on these issues (because I am not well informed on his positions) I find your comment troubling.

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                p>Is compassion a limited resource?  Can we have compassion for only one segment of the community, but not others?

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                p>It seems to me that compassion would multiply, rather than wither on the vine.  Forgive my musing, but this kind of argument really bothers me.  It sets compassion for one segment of the community at odds with compassion for another segment of the community.

              • I’m sure you’ll be able to provide something to back it up.  

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                p>I’d hate to think this is just another example of you letting your bigotry drive your keyboard.

                •    Which ism are you accusing me of here? Have you moved out of your glass house?
                    I think the thread you posted shows I’m willing to work with people. As for you…I have my doubts.  

                • I suspected as much, but hoped I was wrong.

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                  p>That said, how does the thread demonstrate you’re willing to “work with people?” If anything, it just shows how much your hatred of gay people informs everything you post:

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                  Equal Rights! (3.00 / 1)
                  I had to get a divorce and lose all my assets to go on Medicare to be able to stay alive. I don’t believe homosexuals should have any more rights than me. Since you obviously dwell on my every word, maybe choose some valid points. I know, I’m not a homosexual ass-kissing dem, I have none.
                  by: billxi @ Thu May 28, 2009 at 12:00:32 PM EDT

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                •  I must confess, I’m not really interested in LGBT doings. I am actually ambiguous on the matter.

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                  p>Perhaps the “hate” you so eagerly accuse me of is your own personal issue. I am actually feeling sorry for you.

                • That first line is from one of my posts you accused of being hateful. I don’t think feeling sorry for another person is qualified as being hateful. Let me reiterate: I feel sorry for you and your venom directed toward me. I don’t HATE anybody. Can you say that?

                • You said:

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                  Governor Patrick (3.50 / 2)
                  Has more feeling for amimals than he does for disabled people. Ain’t an insult if it’s true.

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                  p>You have yet to back it up.  Trying to turn it back on me doesn’t make it true. Neither does claiming I’m directing “venom” at you change your own words.  

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                  p>As you well know, your comment about not being a “homosexual ass-kissing dem” followed your claim to be “ambiguous on the matter” (whatever that means). Your claims to be tolerant are self-refuting.  Here’s another example:

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                  The LGBT community is becoming too damned pushy in their cause. If someone doesn’t kiss your collective asses they’re branded as haters. Go ahead, brand me. Just because I don’t share your fanaticism. An alternative lifestyle is your choice, deal with it.

  6. I agree with Judy’s original post (linked to in huh’s comment above).

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    p>Barbara is like a more sincere Newt Gingrich. As she got older, she mellowed and was more willing to consider the other side of things. She also had a couple of strange bedfellow alliances (the details of which, I’m sorry to say, escape me now).

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    p>Bottom line, a person of integrity. She was a hellion in her heyday, but she changed, and she deserves better than schadenfreude.

    • It’s also in the link.  If integrity means disregarding any folks harmed by your actions, she has it in spades.

        • Chip Faulkner was active with MassResistance. – from the link – “Chip Faulkner of Citizens for Limited Taxation on the attempts to subvert the petition process, and the issues behind the casino gambling push”.  Really, is THIS an anti-gay concern?  When you guys want a petition for a graduated income tax?

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          p>CLT has NEVER taken a stand on gay rights.  It is a TAX POLICY group.

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          p>A member of its staff did, so that makes the entire organization homophobic?  Did the membership of Rep. Emile Gougen make the LEGISLATURE homophobic?

          • Barbara also appeared on MassResistance radio.  In fact, if you follow the link, she says she doesn’t give a damn that MassResistance is a hate group since Brian Camenker is also anti-tax.  It’s practically the definition of “strange bedfellows.”

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            p>I also linked her anti-gay marriage posting from the CLT site.  Here it is again.

            • I apologize in advance for taking this thread in a slightly different direction, but I still don’t understand how Barbara Anderson can reconcile this position:

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              If they had given the petition the required 50 votes, the issue would probably be on this November’s ballot and resolved, one way or another, by the voters.

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              p>With this position:

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              I’d like to see last year’s dog racing issue back on the statewide ballot too, placed there by animal-loving legislators who could suspend the new anti-racing law until voters have a chance to reconsider laying off all Massachusetts greyhounds … They could do the same thing about the anti-trapping law, that was passed by initiative petition in 1996. I voted for it, but wouldn’t mind seeing it reconsidered in light of new information, i.e., all those coyote-eaten cats that we didn’t think about when we were saving beavers.

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              p>Or, for that matter, with this position:

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              But I got older, and the tolerance of voters for legislative misbehavior got old, too. It didn’t seem fair to ask volunteers to work getting signatures through the fall just to have their winning efforts dismissed by politicians who were then handily re-elected.

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              p>Maybe there are actually two – or more – Barbara Anderson’s running around.  Or maybe she wakes up each day with a different position …

                • I think for it to qualify as ‘pay,’ it ought to be negotiable. Not many places accept kibble as legal tender.

          • The legislature is an elected body with no implied association.  Barbara and Chip appeared on MassResistance Radio, not as private citizens, but as CLT representatives.   Chip and Barbara are CLT officers and half of the paid staff. There’s a big difference.

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            p>Which reminds me, aren’t you a CLT member?

              • But here’s an exampleshow:

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                April 22/23 – Barbara Anderson on new health care; David Parker
                Segments 1 & 2:  The latest horror show from the homosexual movement – Lexington teacher reads “modern” fairy tale on gay love and “marriage” to second-grade class.  David Parker, Lexington parent, talks about it.

                Segments 3 & 4:  Barbara Anderson, of Citizens for Limited Taxation, talks about the new universal Health Care Reform Law passed by the Legislature & signed by Gov. Romney with great fanfare. Is it a great solution, or will it just another pie-in-the-sky program that will bankrupt the state?

                Segment 5:  Wrap-up, what you can do.

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                p>It’s worth taking a moment to remind folks of your postings on the subject:

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                I freely admit that I come from a time when gay meant cheerful. Sodomites, as we called them then, certainly existed and many were socially received – but they were expected to be discreet in their relationships, as were heterosexuals, also known as normal men.

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                p>You’re not terribly credible on this issue.

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