More than one article has been written of late relating to the sinking morale of the troops in the field in Afghanistan. Increasing casualties and zero progress, exacerbated by ninchalance, and indecision from the White House.
Been there and done that. Soon depression will turn to anger and the first target of the anger will be the Afghanny’s. Then the anger will be redirected at the people who hold command and supervisory positions, then the anger returns to
USA because you can’t keep angry men in the mountains and deserts indefinitely.
From The Sunday Times October 25, 2009
Morale dips for American marines in Afghanistan
In a remote part of Helmand troops are dismayed by the ambivalence of locals and a sense that the Taliban can outlast themStephen Grey in Khan NeshinA mile from South Station, an outpost of US marines in Helmand province, the tribal chief was openly hostile. “The Americans threaten our economy and take our land for bases. They promise much and deliver nothing,” he said
I’m not much for this war. I’m not sure it’s worth all those lives lost,” said Sergeant Christian Richardson as we walked across corn fields that will soon be ploughed up to plant a spring crop of opium poppy
For whatever reason, many folks in liberal America think that the troops in the armed forces are essentially stupid. Far from it, they are far brighter than you would ever imagine—they just have a different take on how things should be done. The pot is getting warmer. The open revolt in Vietnam began approximately in June 1969 and that was the end of Lyndon Baines Johnson.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…
And you’ve been protesting Bush’s nonchalance and indecision about Afghanistan for how many years now?
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p>And if McCain, your chosen candidate for President, had won in 2008, would we even be thinking about withdrawing?
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p>Since you don’t describe how your positions have changed or why, I get to accuse you of not really caring about this issue and of just playing Discomfit-the-Liberal, your favorite game.
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p>I take the jump from policy to Johnson in the last paragraph as further confirmation.
McCain Oct 11, 2009
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p>McCain March 31, 2009
In short, McCain doesn’t even think that there’s a question here.
I spent a year in northern I Corps RVN 68-69. I and my peers had to endure, and many died, as the result of Lyndon Johnson and company being able to maintain an aggressive offensive posture after Tet 68 when we annihilated the NVA. Then the waffling started and one change in policy after another—then total collapse.
I guess it is democrat policy after you throw the military into a winnable war—and then you let them die in place.
That U.S. invention, the Republic of South Vietnam, never garnered sufficient popular support for the war to be winnable short of genocide.
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p>As it was, 2 million Vietnamese died.
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p>Winnable?
before they want you out.
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p>The critical years for Afghanistan to take control of their own security was 2002 through 2007.
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p>It this point, increasing troop levels doesn’t improve our ability to kill and capture Al Queda or our ability to secure the Afgan people from the resurgent Taliban. To the contrary, our presence is a recruiting tool for the Taliban.
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p>I’s not just American lives and treasure and America’s reputation in the world that was lost in Bush’s war of choice in Iraq, it was also the opportunity cost of progress in Afghanistan.
Unfortunaetly the Islamo fascists prefer regions like this as training areas. The answer are drone aircraft that can rain death and destruction from the area 24/7/ The indiginous populations that getting near the Taliban and or Al Qaeda may be hazardous to your health after the Predators kill sufficient quantity. It is simply a learning curve. The Germans began to understand this in 1944 ie Dresden and Cologne.
We invaded Afghanistan because of 9/11 – because the ruling party wouldn’t turn Al-Queda over. Weren’t our purposes in invading to destroy AQ and to punish the Afghan rulers for cooperating with them? Bush dropped the ball on the first one. But AQ is not a force in Afghanistan, and we have more than adequately punished the whole country enough to dissuade any future government from supporting those who would attack us at home. Time to get out. We aren’t going to make anything better by staying.
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p>This is preposterous, but I can see how this sort of characterization fits nicely with your world view. KBusch is right. This post is merely another in your series of Discomfit the Liberal.
It’s the reason I quit college and went into the service to see for myself. The drumbeat back then was that only poor folks were drafted, and the dummies who couldn’t hang on to a 2-S. Then when the all volunteer “Army” came into existence it was only the “poor and unintelligent” went into military service. Prior to the instant economic implosion —again it was dummies for military service and now post economic collapse—it’s the poor again.
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p>I’m beginning to see a pattern. It’s the mantra of the left.
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p>For your reading enjoyment:
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p>Milton and I served together with B/1/26 in 1968. He’s right on, on this one. Semper Fi, Milton McNeely
–Leo
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p>October 24, 2009
SUBJ: Open letter to President Obama — Regarding Afghanistan
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p>President Obama In your inaugural speech you said, “For us, they fought and died, in places like Concord and Gettysburg; Normandy and Khe Sanh.”
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p>While men and women that have served our country so well in the past should be honored and held in the highest regard, it is absolutely necessary and your moral obligation and responsibility to prioritize the safety and welfare of those that serve now and risk their lives on today’s battlefields.
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p>Mr. President, I being one of those many veterans that served at Khe Sanh during the 77 day siege in 1968, recall a situation that is somewhat similar to the one in which you presently find yourself, regarding Afghanistan. The request for 40,000 additional troops for Afghanistan is much like the request that President Johnson received in 1968, for additional troops for Vietnam.
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p>On March 30, 1968, Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 26th Marines defeated a heavily fortified enemy battalion just outside of the Khe Sanh Combat Base in one of the few bayonet charges of the Vietnam war and for all practical purposes the Siege was coming to an end with the enemy defeated.
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p>On March 31, 1968, President Johnson announced that he would not send the additional troops requested and he committed the US to a non-military solution of the war by ordering a bombing halt over 75% of North Vietnam. During the Siege, Bravo Company had sustained over 50% causalities killed or wounded and, unless there with me, one cannot imagine the anger and contempt I felt toward a president who would play politics with the lives of men that had already given so much.
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p>Halting or reducing the bombing of the North would allow the enemy to bring more ordinance to bear in the Siege or to divert elsewhere. We later learned that the NVA were defeated and would have capitulated, if we would have pressed the attack at this point. Respite from bombing afforded the enemy opportunity to more easily withdraw and regroup. It lead to several additional years of war, thousands of additional American causalities, and eventually the defeat of South Vietnam.
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p>Having extended my tour in Vietnam, the middle of April found me in the Da Nang airport finding transportation for a 30 day leave in the US before I would return to B/1/26. Given an opportunity, I spoke out to an Australian news correspondent challenging President Johnson for playing “Political Football” with the war in Vietnam and with lives of military personal serving there.
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p>Returning from leave I found myself standing tall in the Battalion Headquarters answering to officers from Division Headquarters wanting to know if I had actually said the words that I had been credited with by the Australian press. I proudly agreed that the words were mine but I was a little put off that the newspaper failed to use the exact verbiage that would have better expressed my disdain and anger toward an administration that would not give our troops the same loyalty and support that was expected of them.
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p>Of course they told me that I should not have made these comments to any newspaper much less a foreign one and that I needed to keep my mouth shut. I suppose they could tell by my attitude that I had more to say and would say it publicly given any opportunity. They eventually threatened me with the possibility of a court martial but not being swayed I was soon sent on my way and heard no more about it. Still, I have often wondered what discussions were held and what conclusions were drawn concerning this 19 year old Marine Corporal publicly criticizing the President of the United States about his decision to not support the troops on the ground in Vietnam.
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p>President Obama, I believe that you have had sufficient time to determine if our continued military presence in Afghanistan is, or is not, in the best interest of the United States. If the determination has not yet been made, then as Commander-in-Chief, please do so with all haste. If it is not in our national interest, then please withdraw our troops immediately; but if it is or as long as they are in harm’s way and for as long as necessary, support our troops with all the financial, logistical and human resources that are required. It makes no difference which legitimate or illegitimate group governs Afghanistan. Our moral imperative, responsibility and commitment is to our troops and none other.
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p>And from Lt Col Ken Pipes USMC ret ( Google him for inspiration)
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p> Headquarters Cadre
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p>Bravo Company, 26th Marines, 3rd Mar Div
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p>FROM: Lieutenant Colonel, Kenneth W. Pipes, USMC, (Retired), Officer Commanding Bravo Company, First Battalion, 26th Marines, Khe Sanh, Republic of Vietnam, 1967/1968.
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p>TO: Sergeant Milton L. McNeely, 2340173, USMC, Bravo Company, 26th Marines, Khe Sanh, RVN, 1967/1968
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p>SUBJECT: Commendation, Case of Sergeant Milton L. McNeely, Bravo Company, USMC
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p>1. In as much as Sergeant McNeely was present with his unit, Bravo Company, 1/26 before, during and after the Battle of Khe Sanh and in recognition of his Staunch, Resolute, Determined and Forthright desire to, at all times, step forward to speak in behalf of his Marine Companions at Arm’s, he is here by Commended for once again, going into the breach in their behalf and in behalf of our Service Members currently battling our country’s enemies in Afghanistan.
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p>2. It is strongly recommended that the current President of the United States take the advice and sage counseling of Sergeant McNeely’s powerful observation and strongly worded recommendation; noting that those that fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.
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p>3. It is directed that a copy of this Commendation be attached to Sergeant McNeely’s letter and that both documents be framed and prominently displayed in his home or office in recognition of his courageous action.
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p>Captain, Kenneth W. Pipes
Officer Commanding Bravo Company, 1/26
Khe Sanh Combat Base, 1967/1968
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p>
The substance is essentially meaningless as others have pointed out. However, the fact has remain unchanged for centuries that when you occupy a foreign land, there are three ways it will end:
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p>Extermination of the occupied
Assimilation of the occupied
*Evacuation of the occupier
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p>Since genocide is no longer widely tolerated in the world (at least when a developed country does it), and we frankly don’t have the money to make Afghanistan the 51st state, then really there’s only one way this can end.
We stay and take increasing casualties in a continuous bloodletting or we leave and the Taliban and Al Qaeda return and three years later there is a suitcase bomb in Washington DC.
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p>I haven’t seen the press at Dover AFB mortuary services photgraphing the coffins coming off the C-17’s. What happened? Oh ya——-Obama is now the responsible party.
Granted—former military servicemen and retirees only account for 5-8% of the entire population of this country—but they have a loud voice:
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p>sgt mcneely’s letter came to me from retired mustang don greenlaw.
knowing ltcol ken pipes who is a friend and i also knew he was the company
cmdr of bravo company, 1st battlion, 26th marines at khe sanh during the
time frame sgt mcneely alluded to in his letter, i sent the letter to him.
he responded with the commendation letter. i was a young marine second
lieutenant at camp pendleton the night(3/31/1968) lbj walked off the
battlefield by resigning the presidency. in just a few short days i found
myself on that very deadly battlefield that sgt mcneely(i don’t know him),
and then capt pipes along with 1000’s of other americans were battling a
very determined north vietnamese army. i admire sgt mcneely’s letter to
potus, and agree with it 110%. if we send our warriors into battle as a
nation, then we either support them or get out. remember, war only happens
because the politicians have failed in the first place(rightly/wrongly).
this goes for both political parties as far as i’m concerned.
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p> last night, my wife mary and i watched the dvd Taking Chance. it
is about a young marine killed near baghdad in 2004, and his journey home
being escorted by a ltcol mike strobl. every american should watch this to
see the price that is currently being paid for our freedom by only a few
americans and their families. to leave them exposed on the battlefield
w/out reenforcements is criminal in my opinion.
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p> i am sending this email out to everyone on my email list, and if it
offends anyone, plz advise and i’ll remove u r name from any further
emails…….
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p>john a
khe sanh–vietnam–1968
USMC
You seem awfully bummed out that you’re not hearing more about dead Americans landing in Dover. How many do you want? What is the acceptable minimum for dead American soldiers that would please your Republican heart? Because you seem angry that not enough Americans are dying while the other people are in charge.
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p>Your clowns invaded two countries with no idea how to get out, while also blowing up the economy, and you’re whining because Obama hasn’t “fixed” what they spent 8 years breaking before Thanksgiving. I realize there’s no real dignity left in the Republican Party these days, but could you at least try not to make it so obvious?
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p>PS: The Taliban could barely assemble a suitcase while they were in power, much less a suitcase bomb, your boy-king Bush send ungodly sums of money to Pakistan’s ISI who built that regime, the Taliban never attacked the United States — al-Qaeda did — and they are out of power in Afghanistan.
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p>PPS: While your tantrum for more American problems under That One was despicable, it never answered my comment.
So they opened up the place for photographers and the left wing MSM gleefully photographed the arrival of the flag draped coffins. And now that the coffins are arriving on an increasingly regular basis—-suddenly it’s not news.
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p>Apparently The White House is in a state of total denial or BO has more tee times than he is able to accomodate. The only president that played more golf than Obama is Eisenhower, but Eisenhower had his wars behind him. “Dithering” is inaccurate. It’s more like fiddling while Rome burns.
The substance is essentially meaningless as others have pointed out. However, the fact has remain unchanged for centuries that when you occupy a foreign land, there are three ways it will end:
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p>Extermination of the occupied
Assimilation of the occupied
*Evacuation of the occupier
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p>Since genocide is no longer widely tolerated in the world (at least when a developed country does it), and we frankly don’t have the money to make Afghanistan the 51st state, then really there’s only one way this can end.
The WAR we should have fought. Lt Gen McChrystal asked for more troops for force protection in August—but our president is going to wait until after the November elections so his decision will not affect the outcome. What’s a few more dead young people—-Obama obviously thinks that electing democrats is of far greater import that service trash.
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p>Where are the photographers at Dover?