Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

The War On Xmas

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As the offspring of a large, multicultural Southern family (Sephardic  grandfather, Cajun Catholic grandmother, Yankee Presbyterian father), I don’t understand people getting wound up over “Happy Holidays.”  In my family not assuming others shared your religion was simple politeness.  

Through today’s LA Times, I learn that the American Family Institute has launched a two month boycott of the Gap:

Gap “does not use the word ‘Christmas’ to avoid offending those who don’t embrace its meaning,” writes Buddy Smith, executive assistant to the president of the AFA, on the organization’s website. “Christmas has historically been very good for commerce. But now Gap wants the commerce but no Christmas.”

“I interpret Gap’s decision as a warning sign to Christians to get out there and tell people about Jesus Christ,” writes Smith.

The problem, as the Times points out, is the Gap DOES mention Christmas:

Surf on over to YouTube and watch Gap’s latest 30-second spot, titled “Go Ho Ho” (Crispin Porter + Bogusky). The spot — which is in heavy rotation on network and cable TV — features a group of insanely athletic dancers leaping and twirling and stomp-cheering around a white log-cabin set. They chant, “Go Christmas, go Hanukkah, go Kwanzaa, go solstice. . . . Do whatever you wannukkah and to all a cheery night.”

There it is, right up front, enjoying pride of place: the C-word.

Meanwhile, both Old Navy and Gap sell Christmas-themed merchandise, such as Christmas boxer shorts, which I’m sure can only be removed in the sanctity of marriage.

So what’s the big deal?  I suspect the Times reporter may be right and this is simply a ratings/fundraising gambit for Bill O’Reilly and the AFA. Are people really that cynical?

I was raised that the spirit of goodwill towards man was important.  It’s possible that’s the result of seeing “A Charley Brown Christmas” one too many times, but I digress… The War on Xmas folks still seemed to have missed the point entirely.

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  1. If I go into the Gap in mid-December, and they don’t wish me a happy Feast of Sol Invictus, I’ll be furious.  Complete strangers should honor my personal preference among holidays, even if they don’t mean it.

  2. I’m a manager of a gift store that very much needs a Christmas shopping season.  My company does not have a greeting policy so I just take my cue from customers.  Whether they say “Happy Holidays” or “Merry Christmas” I respond “Thank you, same to you.”  We make big business on tree ornaments and I just set up what is very much a CHRISTMAS display.  All this war on Christmas rhetoric is overblown.  Christmas would never go out of style in this “Christian nation”, founded by Puritans, right?  Oh, wait!

    • I’m not really talking about creches on public property or anything like that.  More about people taking offense at “Happy Holidays” rather than doing the right thing and saying “thank you” as you suggest.  Clearly the Christmas shopping season is hugely important to the economy.  I wish it didn’t start right after Halloween, but that’s another discussion.

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      p>Love the Puritan link, thanks. “Here we go a wassiling” suddenly seems sinister:

      <

      p>

      The Puritans who immigrated to Massachusetts to build a new life had several reason for disliking Christmas. First of all, it reminded them of the Church of England and the old-world customs, which they were trying to escape. Second, they didn’t consider the holiday a truly religious day. December 25th wasn’t selected as the birth date of Christ until several centuries after his death. Third, the holiday celebration usually included drinking, feasting, and playing games – all things which the Puritans frowned upon.

      One such tradition, “wassailing” occasionally turned violent. The older custom entailed people of a lower economic class visiting wealthier community members and begging, or demanding, food and drink in return for toasts to their hosts’ health. If a host refused, there was the threat of retribution.

      • 1) Those who take offense to hearing, or object to saying, “Merry Christmas” on the grounds that it is not inclusive.  File under it’s the thought that counts.

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        p>2) Those who take offense to hearing, or object to saying, “Happy Holidays” on the grounds that it’s a lot of politically correct nonsense.  File under lighten up.

        <

        p>I agree about the season starting so early.

        • I made the mistake of going to the AFA site.

          <

          p>Here’s THEIR criteria:

          <

          p>

          Criteria – AFA reviewed up to four areas to determine if a company was “Christmas-friendly” in their advertising: print media (newspaper inserts), broadcast media (radio/television), website and/or personal visits to the store. If a company’s ad has references to items associated with Christmas (trees, wreaths, lights, etc.), it was considered as an attempt to reach “Christmas” shoppers.

          <

          p>They then divide the world into three groups:  “for Christmas”, “marginalize Christmas” and “against Christmas.” In order to be “for Christmas” a company has to actively promote Christmas.  Companies which don’t are BAD. Advanced Auto Parts and Best Buy, to take two examples at random.

          <

          p>Any company which is “against Christmas” is used in the AFA fundraising literature, of course.  

          • …WAY too much time on one’s hands!  I haven’t had a chance to count Christmas references in various ad media so I guess it’s a good thing AFA is here to save the day;)

            • Again, from the AFA site:

              <

              p>

              Gap says they carry Christmas items. Is that true?

              Out of thousands of items offered, Gap’s website carries less than a half-dozen clothing items that mention Christmas. These printed clothes are produced by the clothing manufacturer and are not reflective of the company’s advertising or promotional campaigns.

              <

              p>I’m guessing red and green isn’t enough.  Maybe something in a tasteful “death to the Christmas infidels” motif?

              • When I went into the Gap* in July, I didn’t find a single article of clothing that mentioned Christmas.  Since when is it okay to disrespect real Americans Christians 10 months out of the year?

        • 2a)  Those who say “Merry Christmas” with an insincere tone of voice that makes it clear that it’s a challenge, like they’re hitting you over the head with it to prove their politically incorrect bona fides.

          <

          p>I return sincere best wishes of any kind, but in this case, I don’t want to play their game, so I might just wiggle out of it with “…and a Happy New Year!”

  3. I am a divorced and happily remarried father of five children, two of whom are now grown. The Massachusetts Court determined, years ago when they my children were little, that the children would spend Christmas with their mother and New Year’s with me. My wife is Austrian, and grew up in a family that did not celebrate any winter holiday.

    <

    p>This will be our seventh celebration of Sylvester — the traditional German patron of the New Year. For us, it has transformed an occasion of great pain (on my part) into a holiday that all of us enjoy and look forward to. It is a marvelous book-end with Thanksgiving, has none of the commercial baggage of Christmas, and lets us all joyously celebrate the New Year —  my favorite time of the year.

  4. and the solstice in my house.  We put a Festivus pole next to a spindly little Charlie Brown tree.  Works for us.  

    <

    p>I think Happy Holidays is just fine.  The rest of it is ratings hype and more manufactured outrage.  

  6. Christmas, Hanukkah, it’s all good.  Solstice?  uh…well, if that’s your prerogative, I guess.

    <

    p>Kwanzaa?  I don’t like that one.  It was made up by a felon who tortured women and hated white people.  There’s no good will to fellow man in the heart of the person who created Kwanzaa.  Regardless of the way it is practiced 45 years later, it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.  

    • You celebrate the solstice, whether you call it Christmas or not.  The Christians Gospels put the shepherds in the fields while their flocks were lowing (giving birth), something that only happened in the spring.  Christmas was sited near the winter solstice, a holy day in almost all cultures.  The sun appears to be dying, but suddenly springs back to life, a resurrection if you will.  I’ve always been partial to the Roman name for the day — Sol Invictus, or “Feast of the Unconquered Sun”.

      <

      p>War on Christmas?  Christmas declared war on the solstice long before.

      • I’m not sure if the date of Christmas was a move by Gregory VII or not.  He is the one who is primarily responsible for the movement of Christian Holy Days to overlap local days in an effort to aid conversion of pagans by assimilating their culture into Christianity rather than destroying it and attempting to rebuild from nothing.  The same explanation is why we have Easter and All Saint’s Day when they are.

    • “During Kwanzaa, millions of African Americans and people of African descent gather to celebrate their heritage and ancestry. Kwanzaa celebrations provide an opportunity to focus on the importance of family, community, and history, and to reflect on the Nguzo Saba or seven principles of African culture. These principles emphasize unity, self-determination, collective work and responsibility, cooperative economics, purpose, creativity, and faith.”

    • If we’re going to dislike stuff because of the people that originated them, we’re going to have to start disliking a lot more things:

      <

      p>America was founded by men like Thomas Jefferson who raped slaves and others who imprisoned and tortured other humans of African descent. Yet I don’t dislike America.

      <

      p>Ford was founded by a rabid anti-Semite who loved Hitler, yet I have no particular dislike of Ford cars (well, not because of that fact, anyway).

      <

      p>Mel Gibson…not a big fan of the Jews, but who doesn’t enjoy Braveheart?

      <

      p>I’m not saying you have to like Kwanzaa – personally, I don’t care about the holiday one way or the other -I’m just saying that you have a curious reason for not liking it.  

  7. Today I always say “Have a good Holiday”, but it really takes the warm and fuzzies out of it for me.  On the rare
    occasion when someone will say “Merry Christmas”, I could just reach out and hug them. I literally get a warm and fuzzy feeling, a huge grin, and a give them a great big “MERRY CHRISTMAS” write back.

    <

    p>It’s not that I want to disrespect other religions, but I think this could be handled differently.  Instead of making the holiday generic, I think it would be better to embrace all of the different religions.  Allow me to wish you a Merry Christmas without fear, and I will receive your Happy Hanukkah with welcome and acceptance. It really can’t be that hard.  I think I’m going to say Merry Christmas to everyone this year.

    <

    p>And I agree, this “Holiday Season” has become so commercialized it is becoming ugly.  Buy, buy, buy,
    spend, spend, spend.  It is very irritating that they have Halloween and “Holiday” stuff out simultaniously.  

    • I say “Happy Holidays” to strangers.

      <

      p>To everyone I know well enough, I make a specific greeting. I also respect Jewish friends who insist that Hannukah is not a big deal and make a point of acknowledging Passover, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Purim, and Sukkot.

      <

      p>This year, I note, Hannukah lasts from December 11 to 19. After December 19, it’s a bit odd to be wishing someone a Happy Hannukah — just as it would be odd to be wished a Merry Christmas on December 29 (as opposed to being told, “I hope you had a merry Christmas”.)

      • The Jewish High Holidays are Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.

        <

        p>Hanukkah is a relatively minor holiday which gained importance by being close to Christmas and involving gelt.  

      • If someone wishes me good tidings which stem from some religious or cultural tradition, I thank them.  Rather than choosing to be insulted because someone else fails to pass a test of sensitivity to my little world, I choose to hear a wish for me to be happy or safe or just recognized in friendship. Happy Holidays to you too KBusch and thank you.

        • Growing up as a Jew in a predominantly Protestant area, it was the norm to receive a few “Merry Christmas” greetings throughout the season. I would say thank you, or something of the sort, and smile. Why burst someone’s bubble by taking the time to say “Oh no, actually…”? They are just trying to be friendly.

          <

          p>Also…while the religious significance of Hanukkah is not on par with the ones mentioned above, it is significant to my family for other reasons. We are Reform Jews, but we are most definitely practicing Jews. I emphasize that because often times non-Jews assume that means I’m not very religious.
          I’ve attended Hebrew school since I could walk pretty much, have been Bar-Mitzvah’ed, and observe major holidays etc.

          <

          p>But to my family, it always represents a way for us to get together and enjoy being Jewish without having to worry about going to Shul. We stay home, light the candles, and relax. So yes, while it is not the most religiously significant holiday, it is in fact significant to me (and I assume others as well) so I feel it should not be tossed aside as a minor Holiday.

          <

          p>…oh yeah, vote for Capuano.

          • My mother’s sister converted to Judaism in her twenties, which pleased my grandfather greatly (we’re Reform, as well). School vacation coincides with Christmas, so, since we lived in different states, we’d all gather at my grandparent’s house then.  In order to keep my cousins from feeling left out, we’d all get presents.  If the two holidays happened to coincide, everyone would get gelt as well.  We used to jokingly call it Chrismukka.

            <

            p>A few years ago I visited the Jewish Museum in Berlin and discovered that Chrismakkuh was, in fact, quite common in pre-WWI Germany:

            <

            p>

    • is not rare. The amount of Christians who think that their Christianity is under attack in a country in which they are firmly in the majority is astonishing. You are not a victim. Christians are not the victims. The days when Christians were put in with the lions are long, long since passed.

      <

      p>And the notion that it should be okay to assume someone is something they may not be is rather insulting.

      <

      p>And this is coming from someone who was born, raised and confirmed a Catholic. I only left after Cardinal Law decided it was a fantastic idea to ship pedophiles from parish to parish so they could abuse hundreds of more children, then hide and lie about it.

      <

      p>—
      HT to Mr. Lynne for originally emailing me a link to this video, but I think it’s highly relevant right now. Skip to 2:30 in on the first. It only goes for another minute in the second.

      <

      p>

      <

      p>

      • are unlikely to like this debate much.  I found this on Pharyngula a couple weeks ago (where I find most of this stuff and my current fave, Mr. Deity).  My son and I watched it and enjoyed it.  The Nigerian archbishop seems like such a nice guy, but the former MP is like something out of a Dickens novel.  She is one scary lady.  Aye yay yay.  

    • Here’s my thing: wish me a “Merry Christmas” when it’s actually Christmas – December 23, 24, 25…or maybe 4 or 5 days before the day itself.  Or if it’s a Christmas party that happens to fall on say the 12th or 14th. I like Christmas, but I I find the need to wish others a Merry Christmas 3 weeks in advance obnoxious.

      <

      p>I’m not Christian, but I enjoy Christmas.  I like the parties, the food, Yankee Swap, drinking with friends and family I see anually or semi-annually. I like the gifts, the cookies and deserts, and I do like certain Christmas music (in proper contexts).  So yeah, on Christmas Eve or the day before I wish everyone a Merry Christmas because I hope that their December 25th is a good day for them, even if they spend that day eating Chinese food and going to the movies.

      <

      p>I also get sick of being accused of being ant-Christmas because I don’t want to wish people Merry Christmas on December 5th (I don’t think liveandletlive is saying that I am).  If I say Happy Holidays on December 5th, it’s not that I’m trying to genericize Christmas or “take the Christ out of Christmas”, it’s that I’m wishing that that person’s Hanukkah, New Years, Kwanzaa, Sol Invictus as well as Christmas is happy.  Don’t worry; when it is actually Christmas I will wish everyone a Merry Christmas.

      • I’m not calling anyone anti-Christmas for saying Happy Holidays, or whatever they want to say at any point during the season.  What I’m saying is that I want to be able to say “Merry Christmas” and not be spat on for being insensitive.

        • Really?  I’m genuinely curious.  Even my militantly atheist cousin was raised polite enough to just say “thank you.”

          • but there have been occasions, years ago, where I’ve said “Merry Christmas” to a stranger or two and was told, with an offended glare, that they don’t celebrate Christmas.  Then received the cold shoulder because I offended them. Some people get very huffy about it. Makes for an all around uncomfortable situation.  A simple “thank you” would have been sufficient, as your cousin politely practices.  It was after those uncomfortable situations that I began saying “Happy Holidays”.  You just never know who you’re going to offend.  

            <

            p>I agree with your post, huh. It would be better to just accept each others differences. I think this whole issue stems from complaints regarding the separation of church and state, with keeping state buildings, schools, and land free of religious paraphernalia.  There is a lot of outrage about that, and that argument has absolute merit.  But then the idea was picked up by retail marketers, as they tried to increase their profit potential.

            <

            p>I went to youtube to review commercials. found Walmart’s ads. It seems that Christmas is making a comeback.

            <

            p>There is this one from 1994 (poor quality)

            <

            p>and this one from 2008

            <

            p>

            <

            p>

            • If you went up to ten people at random and said “Happy Hanukkah” how many do you think would say “I don’t celebrate Hanukkah.” while giving you an offended glare?

            • Ah yes. “Save money. Live better.” Welcome to Walmart’s America.

              <

              p>Jeesh, it almost makes me nostalgic for Budweiser —

              <

              p>

              <

              p>I’m definitely sticking with Sylvester.

          • Presumably, when a commercial businiess or other institution voices a preference to wish ‘happy holidays’ it does so under the assumption that it is a perfectly reasonable greeting (not a insult to Christianity or anyone for that matter) and is sufficiently religiously neutral not to offend anyone.  Such institutions are well served at being neutral on such an issue (religion) which is completely orthogonal to their mission.  

            <

            p>That being said, the effort to remain neutral presupposes that they think some might react negatively toward a more religious greeting.  However, I wonder how often it really happens, of course, such as you.  I’d suspect that the threshold of ‘tolerating the potentially offensive’ is very very low for a commercial retail organization, so such presupposition might be based on little or no evidence – playing it safe is the better business decision when protecting a brand.

            <

            p>That being said, being offended and offended enough to ‘spit at’ people are different magnitudes of the same phenomenon.  I suspect that the ‘quietly offended’ (offended people who don’t make a fuss) are more numerous than is generally realized and that this group is the one that commercial retailers are most worried about.  I suspect that the ‘spit at people’ variety are rare if not non-existent.  Everyone accepted the truth of the meme of veterans of Vietnam being spat at when they got home, but after people actually looked for evidence it seems this was myth.

  8. The last five weeks of the year- from Thanksgiving to New Year’s- have the greatest concentration of major holidays of any point in the year.  If Emperor Constantine had shoved Christmas in between Memorial Day and the 4th of July, guess what?  THAT might be the Holiday Season.  (Although, I bet office parties would still be at the end of the calendar year.)

    <

    p>Any “good” Christian will tell you that Christmas isn’t even the most important holy day on the calendar, so this faux indignation from the Bill O’Reilly crowd is absurd.  If you want to get technical- calling it the “Christmas Season” gives short-shrift to the Feast of the Immaculate Conception (Dec 8th) and the Epiphany (Jan 6th, the same day those 12 Lords are Leapin’).  Why do they hate Christianity?

    • …technically only runs 12/25-1/5 (twelve days), yet people accuse you of procrastinating if your tree isn’t down by New Year’s.  I wish we would use Advent as truly a time for preparation and do the actual celebrating during those twelve days.

      • And saying “Merry Christmas” during Advent is just weird.  It’s sort of like saying “Happy Easter” during Lent.  If you aren’t going to see the person until after Christmas, you can say something like “I hope you have a Merry Christmas”, but in reality both “Merry Christmas and “Happy Holidays” usually mean “Please buy our merchandise”.  Most of the well wishers don’t care about your happiness or merriment, just your pocketbook.

      • I spent too many decades in the Episcopal church, where Advent is primarily about “stewardship” — pledging. I far prefer the Jewish approach of erecting a firewall between financial support and the worship experience.

        <

        p>Historically, the date and customs of the Christmas holiday are appropriated from the pre-Christian Celtic celebration of the winter solstice, along with Easter and All Saints day as noted by sabutai and JoeTS above.

        • …is that Christmas is Roman rather than Celtic (which I think is what Sabutai said, and if you lived back then I would strongly advise against getting those two confused in their presence if you value life and limb!).  Easter we can nail down more easily as being near Passover since the Last Supper is represented in most accounts as a Seder meal.  The whole concept of saints was a Catholic invention so I suppose they can choose whatever date they want to celebrate All Saints.  A season like Advent shouldn’t have such a heavy emphasis on finances.  My church does stewardship in the fall to coincide with harvesting our bounty and Thanksgiving.

          • Is the “Christianinization” of the Celtic pre-Christian holiday of Samhain.

            <

            p>The ancient Celts used a calendar where each day went from sunrise to sunset — the evenings were “in between.” The Celtic new year began at sunrise on November 1st; the old year ended at sunset of October 31st. The night between the old year and the new was therefore considered to be a “thin time” when the veil between the material and spiritual worlds was thin, and when souls more easily crossed to and fro. When the Celts were Christianized, November 1 therefore became “All Saints Day”. Echoes of many of the various Celtic Samhain rituals remain as our Halloween customs.

            <

            p>As sabutai observes, the winter solstice was celebrated by a great many ancient agrarian cultures, including both the Roman and Druidic (pre-Christian Celtic) traditions. The symbolism of the tree/yule has strongly Celtic origins. I am under the impression that Pope Gregory appealed to this Celtic tradition as part of his effort draw the independently-minded Celtic Christian tradition towards the Roman church.

            <

            p>In any case, the tension between the Celtic and Roman traditions energized the history of the Christian Church in ways that still reverberate today (to wit, the tension between the Roman transcendent theology of Karl Barth versus the Celtic immanent theology of Paul Tillich).

            • …the Venerable Bede and St. Augustine (first Archbishop of Canterbury, not to be confused with the better-known Bishop of Hippo by the same name) for Romanizing Christianity in the Celtic British Isles.  Gregory of Tours took on this role in France.  I think there are still some remnants of Celtic Christianity in Scotland.  Your reference to Halloween in this context reminds me of an episode of Boston Legal where a Christian family and a Wiccan family jointly sued their children’s public school for celebrating the holiday – the former for its promotion of witchcraft and the latter for the holiday’s Christian connections.  The judge in that episode essentially ruled that both sides should lighten up and enjoy the candy!

              • I had the good fortune of spending a two-week pilgrimage at the Iona Abbey on the Isle of Iona, in Scotland, in March of 2001.

                <

                p>It is a breathtaking place of quiet, peace, and meditative reflection. I assure you that Celtic Christianity has far more than remnants in Scotland. It is truly a “thin place”, in both space and time. It transformed me, in ways that I am only now beginning to recognize.

                <

                p>

          • It’s not just “near Passover.”  The western churches celebrate Easter specifically on the first Sunday, after the first full moon following the Spring Equinox.  You don’t get much more pagan than that.

            <

            p>At least the Eastern Orthodox churches tie it specifically to Passover, which is itself tied to the first full moon following the Spring Equinox in the Hebrew month of Nisan.

            • The formula used for setting the date in the Anglican (and Roman Catholic) tradition ensures, by intentional design, that Easter Sunday never falls on Passover.

              <

              p>This is consistent with the motivation and history of the passion narrative itself. My understanding is that entire passion narrative was inserted in the Synoptics as a way of clearly differentiating the earliest Christians from the Jews in order to avoid persecution by the Romans during the War of 66-70 CE. Until that time, they had been viewed (correctly) as a Jewish sect. The obvious flaws and self-contradictions of the three passion narratives support this interpretation, as do several of the more glaring inconsistencies between the narratives and Jewish laws and practices of the time.

              • I couldn’t find a cite really quickly but I’m certain in recent years there have been times that Western Easter has fallen during Passover, almost certainly the case on the occasion of matching Eastern Easter.  There was even one year not too long ago that Maundy Thursday actually fell on the night of Seder.  My understanding also is that the passion accounts are closer to the original than you give them credit for, though your theory DOES seem to apply to John.  In this particular case I’m not too concerned about inconsistencies as four different authors, none eyewitnesses or participants, differing on the details in recording previously oral tradition doesn’t surprise or disturb me at all.

                • Passover is a day. A day that begins a season, yes, but still a day. Easter never falls on that same day, by intentional design. This is spelled out in the various references to the proceedings of the Council of Nicea (after a great deal of bloodshed, I might add, which was one of the primary motivations for said council). I refer you to the voluminous writings of modern Biblical criticism regarding the origins and very dubious historical accuracy of the passion narratives.

                  <

                  p>I fear we have gone far afield of even this wide-ranging thread. This is, after all, not a blog about theology or Biblical criticism.

                • First I’m hearing that.  Even my Jewish friends refer to Passover as an eight-day period (like Hannakuh and very unlike how most Christians casually refer to Christmas), with the Seder celebrated the first two nights.  Even so when Maundy Thursday falls on a Seder night in my book that’s as lined up as you get and very appropriate.

  9. I walked into a Loewe’s two weeks after LABOR DAY and the christmas merchandise was already out. Explain to me how this gross overcommercialization has any connection to anything religious.

    <

    p>Two months of christmas carols is not promoting anybody’s religion.

    • …there is the whole Magi bearing gifts thing.  Yes, it may have been a full two years after Jesus’ birth, and yes, that event technically has its own day (Epiphany), but you have to admit the stories are conflated in popular tellings.

        • …it could have been up to two years later.  Matthew tells us that when the Magi left by another road to avoid telling Herod where the baby was he ordered the slaughtering of all male infants up to two years of age.

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