Look into any stadium in America; 50% and more of the patrons will deduct the expense of the tickets, hot dogs and beers as a business expense. These deductions are a “business expense” and while it is great to bond with your colleagues and clients; is this an industry our country can afford to give tax breaks too? What does it do to address our real challenges of healthcare, education, global competiveness ? Why should we enrich owners and players through expensive ticket and concession sales ?
These tax breaks inflate prices to a level that an ordinary family without an expense account can’t afford to go to a game.
Please share widely!
From the headline of this diary I thought it was going to be about how the teams and leagues, like other corporations, use loopholes and subsidies to be exempt from taxation, or how state infrastructure projects are used to benefit stadia and arenae. One way or the other these tickets have to be purchased, so it seems the team would be making the same money on a ticket purchase regardless of whether the price thereof is later deducted from the purchaser’s tax burden. Therefore I can’t see how some people’s deductions drive up the price for others, and yes, I did read the link in the promotion.
What the tax break does is essentially lower the ticket prices for those who can write them off on their taxes. In theory this would increase demand, and since the supply is fixed, would allow the sports team owners to charge a higher price, which in turn drives up the prices for others. I have no data on how much of an effect that really has.
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p>But you are right – the bigger fish is how much sports team owners (billionaires, with a few exceptions like the Green Bay Packers) get taxpayers to build stadiums, parking, access, etc. for them, thus shifting their costs of infrastructure onto the rest of us. There’s a good example in David Cay Johnston’s Free Lunch about how the current owners of the Washington Nationals essentially bought the team from MLB (they were previously the struggling Montreal Expos) for free once you figure in all of the benefits provided by the taxpayers.
…that these tickets purchased in accordance with your first paragraph might not have been purchased at all, except for the existence of the tax deductions? I guess I assumed potential for a full house on gameday regardless of who is purchasing the tickets or the motives behind it.
Location, venue, team, economy, etc. Given how quickly Sox tickets are claimed whenever offered (for full price) on our local town email list, they could probably charge the same price even if businesses weren’t buying as many tickets as they do. Contrast that with what I saw last week on TV in Baltimore, where the “crowd” could probably have fit into my family room.
How could it not result in higher prices? They can gouge ticket buyers because companies are willing to pay higher prices, in fact, the higher the better, because it seems like a bigger perk for their employees and clients. Poor regular people then pay that same inflated price taking their family to the game. They’ll have to sit in the bleachers, because the corporations bought all the good seats.
Of course, this should also extend to other ticketed entertainment — theater, opera, symphony, etc. I recognize that’s a smaller use, but still to be fair…
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p>This is what I think the Dems should be doing. The GOP wants to cut $20B in expenditures? Fine. The Dems will cut $20B in tax breaks. Get both or neither. Clean up the tax code, increase revenue, make the code more progressive.
I suggested a 10% tax on sports and ads and entertainment here last year, on the theory that it was discretionary spending so the tax would target people who had extra money, but didn’t find much traction here. But I didn’t realize that there was a tax BREAK! That’s outrageous. Absolutely I support eliminating this. I still support a 10% tax on tickets and advertising revenue.
To stop them from spending money on stupid outrageous houses and buying ten fancy cars. Makes me ill watching MTV “Cribs”
Although it seems odd to merely focus on people in a certain line of work. Let’s focus on people in any line of work spending outrageously. Of course, most conservatives are against consumption taxes, so let’s put a special tax on the ridiculous income levels that allow one to spend so stupidly and outrageously. Then again, that would just complicate the tax code and grow government. Instead, we can just raise the highest marginal tax rate.
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p>Raise the highest marginal tax rate — regardless of the person’s occupation or skin color. Good idea, merrimackguy!
It isn’t the making of money I have an issue with- it’s how it’s spent.
Has there been a discussion about the FairTax here? It’s a 23% national sales tax on all purchases (food and clothes too), and a monthly “pre-bate” check to all Americans ($200 a month for a single person, $700 a month for married family with four kids) so that poor people don’t pay taxes on anything, and the rich pay taxes on everything.
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p>Or the “Amazon tax?” I think we should immediately create an internet sales tax, perhaps 10%, uniform across all states, so that internet retailers don’t have to worry about conforming to local sales taxes anymore. I think it should be collected by the federal government and then redistributed to the state where it is shipped.
Seriously though, isn’t that an attempt to legislate morality?
I mean, outlawing murder is legislating morality, even if the consensus is broad. As for the “fair tax”, there hasn’t been a discussion of it here that I remember, nor has there been a discussion of jumping off cliffs onto pavement, either.
Yeah, the transition to it would seem to be impossible. Suddenly on some future January 1st, everyone would take home more money in their paycheck, and they’d get a prebate check of a few hundred bucks, but sales tax would be 30% on everything they buy.
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p>I think we should ramp up the sales tax, starting with an internet sales tax collected by the federal gov’t, so we get used to a national sales tax.
This isn’t a tax break.
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p>We’ve decided to only tax business on net profits, entertaining clients is considered a legitimate business expense. Stomv mentions other ticketed events, but what about restaurants? Are the $200 scotches and $500 wines appropriate business expenses? What about golf, expensive conferences with lots of entertainment?
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p>We can talk about this, but my guess is that professional sports is a small fraction of money spent on client relations and singling out the NFL seems preposterous.
To Hollywood for example.
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p>In essence we should remove high end entertaining from all aspects of business.
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p>No more luxury boxes, fancy restaurants, etc. All of this is taxpayer subsidized.
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p>Federal law should prohibit states and cities from giving tax breaks for building stadiums.
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p>And while we’re at it they need to figure out some way for me to afford Red Sox tickets.
At this rate, it’s going to be very easy to come into Red Sox tickets, unless there’s an actual good team visiting Fenway that day.
It kills me when I see small children in seats (like during the playoffs) that go for $2000 on the secondary market.
So between astounding inequality in America and expensive baseball game tickets, it’s the second effect of free marketism run amok that you want to change?
and this is one thing that really sends me over the edge.
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p>That and reading the real estate ads in Boston Magazine.
Not really a way to make sound public policy, but a good view into the mindset of a conservative. Thank you for that.
What is a person worth? If a CEO creates $1BM in sotckholder value (hypothetically due to specific actions he’s taken) should he get $100M that year from sotck options?
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p>Or should that be controlled (limited)?
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p>Of should he make it and then get taxed?
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p>Can it be hidden or otherwise given to him?
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p>In the old days with the higher rates, execs had corporate jets (which they used for personal vacations) and corporate apartments and a ton of perks not reported on their taxes.
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p>No one actually cares about what these people make.
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p>What people hate is the ridiculous display of wealth, the fancy homes and the penthouses and the yachts, etc.
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p>The constant staring of wealth into their faces.
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p>That is what needs to end.
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p>Based on the way the Red Sox are going so far this season I am quite happy because everyone will stop talking about them and the rich in their expensive seats will be unhappy.
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To prevent businesses from deducting sports tickets as a Meals & Entertainment expense would require audits of every single business tax return. They can only deduct 50% as is, let’s be happy with that. Who knows how many are deducting it at 100% in other places on their returns already.
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p>Let’s take care of tax breaks for big businesses before we go after small businesses – Ma and Pa can save $100 on taxes and go to a Patriots game if they want. Let’s take care of the $40,000,000,000 in tax cuts for big oil now.
and should be discouraged. I am forced to be a SOx fan in order not to seem like a total nerd at work. Hence my distress for having to pay so much to go to games.
Much more affordable and convenient, plenty of fun for the whole family.
Hope the tyrannical social situation and your workplace evolves sometime soon. One hint — declare your interest in an obscure sport that nobody cares about (try Aussie rules football) and you won’t have to deal with questions.
Curling.
What the hell, I’ve been wanting to get this off my chest for a few years.
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p>Personally, I don’t see how anyone with left-ish sensibilities can in good conscience be a Red Sox fan.
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p>1, It’s the most racist major sports franchise in American history. The last one to integrate. The last one to use a whites-only country club in spring training (into the mid-1980s). Never had a black executive or manager. Seriously: baseball, football, basketball: over its total history, it’s the worst. I saw isolated black fans take racist abuse in the stands as late as the early 90s. Say what you want about the roster over the last 20 years; baseball is all about history, and Sox fans are always bleating about tradition. And they routinely crucify black and latino players for minor exhibitions of self-interest, while worshipping the heroically petulant Ted Williams and Carlton Fisk.
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p>2, From ownership, to the execs, to the players, to the fans who fill up all the good seats: it’s full of smug, privileged people. The culture of the fan base mixes smarmy fantasy-league know-it-alls, loudmouth fratboys, fatheaded businessmen in stupid red windbreakers, fraudulent intellectuals like Doris Kearns Goodwin, suit-n-cap-wearing D.C. political types always trying to sell their hometown cred, the list goes on and on. How anyone on the left can sit in a seat in Fenway, look around, and not cringe in shame for the company they’ve chosen, is beyond me.
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p>3, the payroll. The Red Sox are the big bullies. They buy the best players. They suck the life out of the smaller market competition.
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p>Look, I grew up a fan and died a little death in ’86. The drama from ’99-’04 was Shakespearean. Then they won. The story was over. Now it’s just noise. Loud, ugly noise. Just walk away and pick a minor league team to follow.