Here’s hoping the President will continue on with that momentum going into the next debate. I have every expectation that he will.
HeartlandDemsays
Two intelligent men from different generations with very different internalization of similar cultural backgrounds articulated the choices for the American people pretty well this evening.
I am biased (as I have always had a fondness and respect for VP Joseph Biden in both his brilliant and very human moments) yet I do think that the VEEP Biden commanded the stage.
That said, Congressman Ryan is an articulate spokesperson for the right wingers. He does not come across and insane or bizarre like Palin, Gingrich and others but he really did not answer the Moderators direct questions, even when she pressed. His closing was not very authentic; it smelled of political sound bite.
It was refreshing to have a Moderator who practices both command, control and a bit of flexibility while moving the substantive topics from domestic to foreign policy issues and concerns.
Key take aways:
Obama/Biden: out of Afghanistan, no privatization of SS, cool heads with volatile Middle East.
Romney/Ryan (R-squared….as in double dose of Right Wingers!): keep tax breaks for uber-wealthy, spend money (whether we have it or not) on defense, eliminate legal/safe abortion.
Interestingly however, not a word about environment, climate, food and water and energy.
jconwaysays
Bias aside Biden clearly had command of the issues and drove all the key points home without making any gaffes or looking desperate, he seemed to be enjoying himself more at this debate and had more confidence much like Romney did at the last debate. Ryan, like Obama, was trying too hard to be civil and seem moderate and agreeable and came across as being unable to parry and defend all the attacks launched against him. I also really liked that Biden let no lie go unanswered and I especially liked his last answer to the Catholic question* and stating unequivocally that the mandate forces the Church to do nothing it isn’t already doing and is a lot of hot air.
*Raddatz was a fantastic moderator but this was her least focused and most awkwardly inserted question and the weakest exchange of the night, the fact that Biden made it personal and sounded reasonable while Ryan had a creepy Santorum family story (bean, was it just me or was that sorta weird?) and was called out for his evasion on supporting Akin laws. Unlike Leher she didnt let any lie go unanswered and tried to nail both candidates on specifics and Ryan couldnt handle it.
I agree that the demeanor of President Obama and Congressman Ryan were similar — more civil, timid, polite, whatever your word of choice.
Perhaps in the POTUS debate, it was the POTUS being a statesman. Perhaps for the VPOTUS debate, it was a younger man being respectful to an older man. Perhaps I’m drawing far too strong of two conclusions from a pair of anecdotes.
demeter11says
Ryan voted against the Lily Ledbetter Act. Plain and simple. Even if women have been wronged, if even if for 20 years they do not deserve access to the courts for redress. And, I infer, Ryan does not believe in equal pay for equal work (just like Scotty “I have a house full of women” Brown). That would have been a big moment in the debate.
oceandreamssays
Earnest know-it-all who doesn’t have any practical experience but is still more than happy to tell everyone else how to do their jobs.
Mr. Lynnesays
… what he ‘knows’ are lies.
fenway49says
nails it. My only hope is that voters are not turned off by Biden’s smirks and derision. I would have toned that down a bit. Not all the way, but a bit.
What sticks out to me:
Ryan tied the ticket to a pro-life position (in his Congressional voting he’s been more extreme, trying to limit the definition of “rape”). He said abortion should be decided in the legislatures, not by unelected judges. Translation: First chance we get, Roe v. Wade is gone. If you live in Texas, Oklahoma, etc., you’re out of luck. Biden’s answer was perfect on this.
Ryan’s for the privatization of Social Security. That was super-unpopular in 2005 and will be so today. If that money had been in private investment accounts when the whole thing crashed, disaster.
Ryan is more mendacious than I even realized. He and people like him have spread a myth that Social Security is on a collision course with insolvency. Last night he exploited people’s acceptance of that lie when he appealed to people of “his generation” (and I’m 37) to go for what “will work for us” after this program goes belly up.
Unfortunately people may go for it. I’ve seen younger people like my friends and Ryan (our BMG Ryan, not Paul Ryan) express the view that Social Security won’t be there for us in a meaningful way. Maybe not because it’s actually going bankrupt, but because conservative Republicans have had their knives trained on it since 1935 and the Obama Democrats have sent too many signals they’re willing to go along.
Biden could have done, maybe, a better job explaining that the $6,400 he referenced on Ryan’s Vouchercare plan is out of pocket cost since the “premium support” won’t cover the cost of private insurance.
Ryan, like Romney, failed to provide specifics on which deductions he’d be eliminating or capping to offset the $5 trillion you lose when rates are cut 20% across the board, or the extra trillion or two they want to give the Pentagon.
Ryan stepped in it by suggesting more Americans, rather than Afghans, should be patrolling the most dangerous region there. He also had precious few details to flesh out the Romney-Ryan assertions that they would have handled Syria and Libya better. I thought Biden was probably right about Iran, but wonder how the references to the UN and our allies will play with voters who (still) prefer a yee-haw foreign policy.
Overall, a big night. I think Biden was the winner, is being presented by the media as the winner, and most importantly got demoralized Democrats off their couches cheering. It seems a lot of the Romney bounce was from likely voter models showing diminished Democratic enthusiasm. I hope that’s over now.
Since being selected, it has become clear that the Romney people have forced him to soften these positions. (His stance on Medicare, for example, has evolved from Kill It Now to Arrange for Its Slow Death Later.)
might swing back in Obama’s favor after Biden’s performance.
Joe Scarboro was talking about how Biden entered the debate “upside down” in personal preference polls. David Gregory complained that Biden’s “exasperation” with Ryan showed he was “out of control.” Even Tom Brokaw characterized Biden’s demonstrable anger at the Ryan’s mendacity as somehow an indication that Biden is just an “old pol,” and maybe the public will forgive him for that.
It’s amusing how little credit the pundit narrative gives to both Obama and Biden.
Mr. Lynnesays
… they most often put up with it for two reasons – to maintain that letting them put their information (lies) out there is ‘fair’ and to maintain access. They package this up in ‘seriousness’ as in – ‘serious journalists don’t take sides’ (even when one side is lying? – yes).
So for someone else to be exasperated at such lies must be put down lest people start questioning the ‘balance’ and ‘seriousness’ of punditry.
on boston.com says Ryan held his own, engaging in a “frontal attack” on Obama-Biden and didn’t flinch when Biden started breathing fire at him. A triumphant entry to the national stage for Ryan, it was. Guess Glen didn’t watch what everyone else did.
But in the Republican mind, the Globe is in the tank for Democrats MUCH, MUCH more than the Herald is for the Republicans. Sure.
You’ll see.
I think the base will feel much better.
Here’s hoping the President will continue on with that momentum going into the next debate. I have every expectation that he will.
Two intelligent men from different generations with very different internalization of similar cultural backgrounds articulated the choices for the American people pretty well this evening.
I am biased (as I have always had a fondness and respect for VP Joseph Biden in both his brilliant and very human moments) yet I do think that the VEEP Biden commanded the stage.
That said, Congressman Ryan is an articulate spokesperson for the right wingers. He does not come across and insane or bizarre like Palin, Gingrich and others but he really did not answer the Moderators direct questions, even when she pressed. His closing was not very authentic; it smelled of political sound bite.
It was refreshing to have a Moderator who practices both command, control and a bit of flexibility while moving the substantive topics from domestic to foreign policy issues and concerns.
Key take aways:
Obama/Biden: out of Afghanistan, no privatization of SS, cool heads with volatile Middle East.
Romney/Ryan (R-squared….as in double dose of Right Wingers!): keep tax breaks for uber-wealthy, spend money (whether we have it or not) on defense, eliminate legal/safe abortion.
Interestingly however, not a word about environment, climate, food and water and energy.
Bias aside Biden clearly had command of the issues and drove all the key points home without making any gaffes or looking desperate, he seemed to be enjoying himself more at this debate and had more confidence much like Romney did at the last debate. Ryan, like Obama, was trying too hard to be civil and seem moderate and agreeable and came across as being unable to parry and defend all the attacks launched against him. I also really liked that Biden let no lie go unanswered and I especially liked his last answer to the Catholic question* and stating unequivocally that the mandate forces the Church to do nothing it isn’t already doing and is a lot of hot air.
*Raddatz was a fantastic moderator but this was her least focused and most awkwardly inserted question and the weakest exchange of the night, the fact that Biden made it personal and sounded reasonable while Ryan had a creepy Santorum family story (bean, was it just me or was that sorta weird?) and was called out for his evasion on supporting Akin laws. Unlike Leher she didnt let any lie go unanswered and tried to nail both candidates on specifics and Ryan couldnt handle it.
I agree that the demeanor of President Obama and Congressman Ryan were similar — more civil, timid, polite, whatever your word of choice.
Perhaps in the POTUS debate, it was the POTUS being a statesman. Perhaps for the VPOTUS debate, it was a younger man being respectful to an older man. Perhaps I’m drawing far too strong of two conclusions from a pair of anecdotes.
Ryan voted against the Lily Ledbetter Act. Plain and simple. Even if women have been wronged, if even if for 20 years they do not deserve access to the courts for redress. And, I infer, Ryan does not believe in equal pay for equal work (just like Scotty “I have a house full of women” Brown). That would have been a big moment in the debate.
Earnest know-it-all who doesn’t have any practical experience but is still more than happy to tell everyone else how to do their jobs.
… what he ‘knows’ are lies.
nails it. My only hope is that voters are not turned off by Biden’s smirks and derision. I would have toned that down a bit. Not all the way, but a bit.
What sticks out to me:
Ryan tied the ticket to a pro-life position (in his Congressional voting he’s been more extreme, trying to limit the definition of “rape”). He said abortion should be decided in the legislatures, not by unelected judges. Translation: First chance we get, Roe v. Wade is gone. If you live in Texas, Oklahoma, etc., you’re out of luck. Biden’s answer was perfect on this.
Ryan’s for the privatization of Social Security. That was super-unpopular in 2005 and will be so today. If that money had been in private investment accounts when the whole thing crashed, disaster.
Ryan is more mendacious than I even realized. He and people like him have spread a myth that Social Security is on a collision course with insolvency. Last night he exploited people’s acceptance of that lie when he appealed to people of “his generation” (and I’m 37) to go for what “will work for us” after this program goes belly up.
Unfortunately people may go for it. I’ve seen younger people like my friends and Ryan (our BMG Ryan, not Paul Ryan) express the view that Social Security won’t be there for us in a meaningful way. Maybe not because it’s actually going bankrupt, but because conservative Republicans have had their knives trained on it since 1935 and the Obama Democrats have sent too many signals they’re willing to go along.
Biden could have done, maybe, a better job explaining that the $6,400 he referenced on Ryan’s Vouchercare plan is out of pocket cost since the “premium support” won’t cover the cost of private insurance.
Ryan, like Romney, failed to provide specifics on which deductions he’d be eliminating or capping to offset the $5 trillion you lose when rates are cut 20% across the board, or the extra trillion or two they want to give the Pentagon.
Ryan stepped in it by suggesting more Americans, rather than Afghans, should be patrolling the most dangerous region there. He also had precious few details to flesh out the Romney-Ryan assertions that they would have handled Syria and Libya better. I thought Biden was probably right about Iran, but wonder how the references to the UN and our allies will play with voters who (still) prefer a yee-haw foreign policy.
Overall, a big night. I think Biden was the winner, is being presented by the media as the winner, and most importantly got demoralized Democrats off their couches cheering. It seems a lot of the Romney bounce was from likely voter models showing diminished Democratic enthusiasm. I hope that’s over now.
Superawesome.
might swing back in Obama’s favor after Biden’s performance.
Joe Scarboro was talking about how Biden entered the debate “upside down” in personal preference polls. David Gregory complained that Biden’s “exasperation” with Ryan showed he was “out of control.” Even Tom Brokaw characterized Biden’s demonstrable anger at the Ryan’s mendacity as somehow an indication that Biden is just an “old pol,” and maybe the public will forgive him for that.
It’s amusing how little credit the pundit narrative gives to both Obama and Biden.
… they most often put up with it for two reasons – to maintain that letting them put their information (lies) out there is ‘fair’ and to maintain access. They package this up in ‘seriousness’ as in – ‘serious journalists don’t take sides’ (even when one side is lying? – yes).
So for someone else to be exasperated at such lies must be put down lest people start questioning the ‘balance’ and ‘seriousness’ of punditry.
the pundits will criticize you as “lackluster.”
on boston.com says Ryan held his own, engaging in a “frontal attack” on Obama-Biden and didn’t flinch when Biden started breathing fire at him. A triumphant entry to the national stage for Ryan, it was. Guess Glen didn’t watch what everyone else did.
But in the Republican mind, the Globe is in the tank for Democrats MUCH, MUCH more than the Herald is for the Republicans. Sure.