In case you missed it: the Red Sox won last night’s World Series game against the St. Louis Cardinals in an unusual way. With a 4-2 lead and two outs in the bottom of the 9th inning, a pinch-runner on first base, and a big hitter representing the tying run at the plate, Red Sox closer Koji Uehara stunned the Cards and the crowd by picking off the baserunner for the third out. Here’s the video, via Major League Baseball. The fun thing about these videos is that they show the whole thing three times, with three different sets of announcers: first, the national Fox broadcast; second, the Red Sox guys on WEEI; and third, the Cardinals guys on their local radio station. The Cards’ call, which begins at 2:00 into the video, is hilarious. Here’s the transcript:
CARD GUY 1: The first baseman, Napoli, holds against the runner. Why, I do not know. Heh heh heh. Why would they be holding? Ha ha. That’s silly. Here’s a throw over, and he’s … picked off! He picked him off! Unbelievable. The Cardinal pinch-runner Wong is picked off, and Boston wins the game 4-2. A rookie mistake.
CARD GUY 2: That’s why they were holding.
CARD GUY 1: Exactly right. The only reason they could’ve been holding. And what Wong was doing, I have no idea. His run didn’t mean anything. He’s picked off, and Boston wins this game 4-2.
Game 5 is tonight in St. Louis, and there will be at least one more game in Boston on Wednesday night. GO SOX!!!
McCarver was saying the same thing. With 2 outs and a 2-run lead, the better play for the Sox would have been to play Napoli off the bag. Let him have second while you maximize your chance of fielding a grounder to the right side for the third out.
Makes you wonder if they knew Wong was susceptible to a pick-off. Koji was asked if he read that in the scouting report and he said he doesn’t read the scouting reports. Wonder whose decision it was to play Napoli near the bag.
The tone of voice was what I found so amusing in the call – first, the snide derision of the decision to hold the runner, and then the disgust and crushing defeat after the pickoff.
Wong is a rookie with no experience in a game of this magnitude, and Koji is a very savvy guy. That’s why it made sense to hold.
to watch this re-run!
I bet if they didn’t pick him after that first throw, Napoli would have moved into the better defensive position. Someone had a hunch – an obviously good one!
I heard Farrell being asked about this, and I think he indicated that Napoli was in that position because they had the shift on and wanted him in position to field a bunt down the first base line.
Down 2 and Beltran up, why bunt? There was a huge hole on the right side. If he’d put a single through that hole, they’d have two on and Holliday representing the potential winning run at the plate.
Such are the tradeoffs, which could happen in an AL park just as easily as an NL park.
They had the shift on, so Pedrioa was playing way to the right of his normal position, so there wasn’t as big a hole on the right as there would normally be when holding a runner on. Still, I am not sure why they thought Beltran might bunt. Obviously, he wasn’t going to attempt a bunt for a base hit as long as Napoli was close to the base.
Who knows, but it sure worked out in our favor!
It’s a fashion statement!
Rookie, or not, someone put in as a pinch runner should never have been picked off base. Even so, it doesn’t compare with the interference calling end of game the night before. One was earned, the other was lousy circumstances.
If Saltalamacchia’s throw was anywhere near the bag, the “lousy circumstances” would never have come about. You can’t put yourself in a position to allow a controversial call to cost you the game, and the bad throw did just that.
Even after the throw, had MIddlebrooks kept his legs down, I don’t think he’d have been called for the obstruction.
Yes, you’d have a runner on 3rd. But they weren’t going to get him anyway. Hold the ball, you’d have Koji pitching with 2 outs to the Cardinals’ worst hitter. I’ll take that matchup.
It might be true that Middlebrooks wouldn’t have been called if he kept his legs down. Though the rule cited suggests that just laying there is obstruction too. Damned if you move, damned if you don’t. I’m not sure there’s anything Middlebrooks could have done other than come off the bag and block the throw.
The out at the plate was crucial – the one at 3rd was not.
One other thought about the pick off… What was the Card’s first base coach doing? The same thing going through the minds of the STL announcers must have been going through his head and the only conclusion one can come up with was that a throw was coming, and he should have alerted Wong. I would not be surprised if this clip becomes standard fare during spring training for a lot of clubs.
yelling “Back” on pickoff throws when Wong was on base the previous game. He was very quick to pick up on the pitcher’s move in that game. Not sure if I heard him yell “Back” last night.
Remember when Matt Holliday (now with St. Louis) was picked off by Papelbon to end the 8th in Game 2 of the 2007 WS? I think Holliday was picked off third during the 2011 WS (which, fortunately for him, St. Louis won anyway). He should go chat with Wong.
Not the teams, but the rules. You think this works with Ortiz on first? I doubt it.
Could this even happen in the AL? Nope; the DH protects against exactly this kind of thing.
The DL rule has eliminated the fascinating chess matches that the managers play in deciding when to switch to defense, how long to keep that pitcher in the game, when to bring in a PR, etc. Far more interesting, and uniquely NL.
I don’t understand your point. What does the DH have to do with anything? In both leagues, managers have to decide when to switch out good offense for good defense late in the game. And of course, the regular first baseman Napoli was playing first in this play. So yes, the game could have just as well ended this way if the game was being played in Fenway.
I really don’t find the tactics behind the double-switch especially interesting, and it is a chore for the vast majority of fans to keep track of the batting order and who is on the bench. And then we are also left with having to watch many lame pitcher at bats.
I grew up watching the Mets, but I really don’t miss watching pitchers bat, or seeing hot pitchers pulled because they are next in the batting order.
He’d have been the DH. There would have been no “pull him for a PR because his defensive liability outweighs his offensive superhuman ability at this point of this game” moment. The interesting tactics in this particular case have everything to do with not having a DH.
That you don’t like the double switch, or the chore of keeping track of the lineup is fair. I think the managerial chess adds to the game.
Moreso than their having to bat, the thing that gets pitchers pulled in both leagues is the dreaded pitch count. Did you happen to notice that in game one of the ALCS, Anibal Sanchez was pulled after six innings? Even though he hadn’t given up a hit? In the AL with the DH rule in effect.
So even if they got rid of the DH in the NL, you’d still see, as you see in the AL, most starters not going beyond the 7th inning, even if they are pitching well, unless they are getting a lot of first-pitch or second-pitch outs.
They have done this all year and have seen more than a thousand more pitches than any other team in the major leagues. Even in NL parks, the Sox work the count and get starting pitchers out early. Last night was a case in point. The DH definitely helps a bit, but it is only a small part of the story.
Sanchez’s approach of picking the corners and trying to get hitters to swing at balls out of the strike zone (“you aren’t going to hit it, even if I have to walk you”) contributed to his high pitch count also.
But how do you explain the almost-extinction of the complete game, in both leagues? If you look here, you can see how may CGs each team had for the past couple of decades. Tampa Bay led all teams this year with 9, or 5.5%, while the highest number in the NL was a tie between St. Louis and LA (7).
Go back to the early 1990s and you see teams in the mid-to-high 20s, with the majority of teams in the double-digits.
I don’t want to beat the dead horse, but I just don’t buy the argument that pitchers are being pulled too early due to having to bat when they’d likely be relieved at about the same time anyway due to pitch count.
* High salaried pitchers (investments) and the need to protect them by limiting their innings
* The advent of the closer and now their high salaries (and setup men) and the need to use them
* The longer season (162 instead of 154 or 140) Plus the longer post season (Wild Card + LDS + LCS + WS and to a certain extent WBC) and the need to preserve the pitchers arm for a potential long run.
* Manager and staff’s approach to game management with taking advantage of match ups considering the specialty pitchers available to them.
There is some evidence that the more times a batter gets to see a pitcher in a game, the more likely they are going to be able to figure him out especially as most pitchers loses velocity and/or control.
Back in the day they weren’t so worried about pitch count and fewer teams had a specific strategy of driving the pitch count up. Now they have detailed stats about loss of effectiveness when a pitcher hits a certain pitch count, so there’s that.
But there are plenty of games where the pitcher would not come out due to pitch count or loss of effectiveness, but the pinch-hitting situation creates a question. Last night’s game was one of them. And it drives me crazy. If there are fewer complete games, so be it. There were fewer in 1990 than in 1950 to begin with.
Yes, its true that that are far fewer complete games than in the past.
But is that because pitchers are not being allowed to throw as many pitches as they used to or is it because batters have been getting better at taking and fouling off pitches? Or some combination?
and several of the other comments upthread add to the argument (whether they mean to or not) is that the number of innings pitchers stay in games has steadily decreased over time. Because of that, an NL managers’ decision to pinch hit for a pitcher any time after the 6th inning is easier to make because chances are that even if he wasn’t hitting, he’d be coming out of the game soon anyway.
I was simply responding to the “hot pitchers being pulled” comment. Almost any pitcher at 100+ pitches is coming out soon no matter which league he is in and/or how well he is pitching (unless he has a perfect game or no-hitter going – in the regular season). There will always be cases where a pitcher gets PH while he still has something in the tank, but my contention is that cases where the result of that at-bat is the only reason for the pitcher coming out are rarer today.
Love talking baseball on a political blog, BTW. 🙂
The particular point is: There are many good pro-DH arguments, but I think that the argument “it allows pitchers to stay in the game longer” has lost steam since the rule was introduced.
Make sense, even if you don’t agree? 🙂
While it is true that having a DH removes one reason for pulling a pitcher late in the game, it is also true that AL pitchers have to face a tougher line up so that may even out in the long run.
For me, I don’t care about that aspect so much. I just don’t want to watch pitchers bat all that much. It is not just the batting either. If a pitcher gets on base, they are much less likely to run the bases hard, attempt a steal, or take out the second baseman on a play. I don’t blame them. It would be foolish to risk your pitching performance doing something risky running the bases.
He’d only thrown 4, gave up 2 early but settled in. He wasn’t necessarily coming out if they didn’t need some offense down 2-0 in the game. Pinch-hit for Buchholz in the top 5th as well, though he might not have gone much further in that game.
Lester would have come out last night a full 5 outs before he actually did. His pitch count at the time he hit with 2 on in the 7th was at 69, and he definitely still had something in the tank.
Less of an issue for the home team, since they bat after the pitcher’s thrown the top half of that inning, but St. Louis pinch-hit for Kelly pretty early in Game 3 as well.
It happens less often than in the days of frequent CG, but still too often for my taste.
Peavy did get out of a bases-loaded no-out jam to end the 4th, but I don’t think I would call that “settling down” because he did get into that jam in the first place. After his bad performance in the previous game, I would not have been at all surprised to see him pulled in the same situation in Fenway, especially when you have a rested starter ready to go in the bullpen.
The other thing is that this is the World Series, not a regular season game, and that changes the rules for how you manage your pitching staff and lineups regardless of the DH rule or pitch counts.
If I recall correctly, the heart of the order was coming up as well. Just thinking the need for a run, down 2-0 with a runner on third, played into it. They needed the bullpen for five innings (and it could have gone into extras) knowing Buchholz was limited for Game 4.
…all those things you love about the NL were present and accounted for at this point in the game. I think your disdain for the DH has clouded your judgement of this event.
The interesting problem of pulling Ortiz for a PR in this situation doesn’t exist in Fenway, because Ortiz isn’t a defensive liability in Fenway.
Like it did in that game in a NL ballpark. Same situation in any park.
I have seen Ortiz pulled for a pinch runner in the late innings at Fenway many times.
I could see doing it in the bottom of the ninth if the game is tied or the Sox are losing, maybe even the eighth, but it’s import is magnified in Game 4 because Ortiz’s defensive skills are sub-par.
I’m feeling loads of deja vu on this. Did this come up on BMG in some year prior?!?!?
It really is not at all uncommon when they are tied or ahead by a run and they are looking for the go ahead or insurance run.
162 game season. How many times is the DH lifted for a PR? Five? Twenty-five? One hundred and five? I poked around and couldn’t find any numbers…
The WS game was “the first time since May 8 that Ortiz had been removed for a pinch-runner in the eighth or earlier in a close game.” ( http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/07/red-sox-guilty-of-a-little-too-much-playoff-baseball/ )
I don’t watch every game and I definitely don’t keep stats. But I do remember similar situations coming up a number of times in the past. I particularly remember this happening more than once in a tie game in the 9th inning and being a little bit concerned if his spot comes around again in extra innings. I don’t have any specific memories of him being pinch run for in the 8th.
No it doesn’t happen every day, but then again the situation when it would be appropriate is not all that common. The Sox won a lot of games by big scores this year, so I don’t think there were all that many times when you have wanted to pinch run for him.
And again, like I said, this is the World Series. Regular season management patterns aren’t really applicable when your season is going to end in a couple of games.
I used to have a lot of respect for your opinions, stomv … but I must now stress the “used to.” 🙂
Ortiz wouldn’t have been at first if the game had been at Fenway.
Maybe as an AL fan having lived my whole life in the DH era, I don’t like NL ball. Don’t like seeing pitchers flailing at pitches. Don’t like seeing the bases loaded and one out, but knowing it’s a 90% chance nothing will happen because it’s 8 and the pitcher coming up. Don’t like seeing a guy who’s dealing be lifted in the 5th so a bench player can have a slightly higher likelihood of getting a hit. Pinch-hitters rarely come through.
As an AL fan, I don’t like seeing teams built one way for the 162-plus-game season have to juggle when playing WS games on the road. I don’t like seeing AL pitchers, who never hit, risk injury up there on the biggest stage.
As a Red Sox fan, I can’t imagine a world without David Ortiz’s heroics as the DH. A world in which Ortiz was playing first in 2004, so there was no Millar walk to tie the game against Rivera. A world in which the 2007 Red Sox had to choose between Ortiz, Youkilis, and Lowell. No thanks.
and the historic scores reflect that. NL is small ball; AL is big ball.
Me, I prefer small ball. I prefer agonizing over lineup strategy, batting strategy, manufacturing runs, and so forth. AL is “swing away” and for fans who like highlights, the AL makes more sense.
P.S. > Hitters rarely come through, pinch or otherwise. There’s no such thing as clutch in baseball (statistically), and the same goes for pinch.
P.P.S. As for WS, it’s no picnic for the NL either. They don’t have a ninth batter sitting around. I mean, all teams have another guy, but they haven’t built a lineup to go out and get a guy with big hits and no D. Their lineup is optimized for their 162, too. And, based on batting averages, it’s not like NL pitchers take a lot of swings in the cage either.
because even in the NL the pitcher hardly ever gets a hit. That’s just plain boring.
Having the pitcher hit made sense 80 years ago shortstops, second base men and catchers were expected to have low averages and players did not have specialized training regimens. Probably even more important, the amount of money teams invest in their pitchers in modern ball is a huge deterrent to allowing their pitchers to bat in a manner that might lead to injury.
It’s how to handle the 8 spot knowing the pitcher is coming up. It’s whether or not the pitcher can move the runners over. It’s not just hits that are interesting.
I don’t really think the injury angle has legs. Squaring up to bunt is just as risky as swinging away, and pitchers lay down bunts all the time in the NL.
There’s small ball in the AL. Plenty of teams, like Tampa and even the Red Sox in some years, win with running, bunting, etc. They don’t all sit around in the AL waiting for a 3-run bomb. The Red Sox have manufactured runs all year long.
All of baseball depends on the difference between failing 8 times out of 10 and failing only 7, but despite this the NL game offers the bizarre spectacle of a manager being crucified for not going to a pinch hitter, when the pinch hitter succeeds at a rate far less than even the typical MLB hitter.
Agreed it’s not a picnic for the NL team in an AL park, though for St. Louis it works out — they have a good hitter too hurt to play the field every day, but able to DH. And NL pitchers may not hit well, but they’re definitely more used to it. It doesn’t mess with their routine.
just look at the number of sacrifice bunts in both leagues. The number of SBs in the NL is typically much higher too [in my recollection; too lazy to look it up]. The number of substitutions is also much higher.
Pitchers being poor hitters for average or power make for small ball. With a DH teams may still manufacture runs, but the amount of “small ball’ is far less in the AL, and the amount of difficult managerial decisions also far less IMO.
I’m a lifelong AL fan and don’t have a ton of time to watch non-Red Sox games. Whenever I see an NL game I feel like I’ve just gone to Utah (before the laws changed) and must buy a “private club membership” to get a 3.2% beer. I find the NL game annoying rather than an interesting change.
I don’t like bunting all that much, and I think it’s artificial when the main reason for the bunt is that you’re forced to have the pitcher, who generally stinks as a hitter, bat. It’s almost as if a football team had to use their kicker as quarterback every ninth play, and had to devise largely ineffective plays to make that something other than a disaster. I’d much rather see people hitting away.
Last night’s game a good case in point. 1-1 in the 7th, Lester throwing great, tired bullpen. What if Ross walked to load the bases with one out? Then you’re worried about hitting for Lester (for the record, Farrell said he wouldn’t have even if the game remained tied — thankfully Ross came through and largely mooted it). It gives people something to argue about, but if I wanted unpalatable tradeoffs all the time I’d ignore baseball and stick with Congress. And if I were an NL pitcher, I’d be pissed that my stats were being affected by something other than my own performance.
… it can be really interesting. In their series vs. the Mets back in August, two of the Tigers’ pitchers squared up on the first strike, drew the infielders in, and swung away on the next strike to get hits. Max Scherzer got a double as the outfield was also pulled in. Rick Porcello got the other hit.
My preference is for no DH, but I’d be happy if they just normalized it across the leagues. Drives me nuts – almost as much as the NHL having three different types of “wins”.
I’ll take a DH over watching Lester bat any day. Did DH add some years on Yaz’s career? After college, pitchers are meant to pitch, not hit.
To be on a plane full of Boston fans game 2, Charlie’s Kitchen with my friends for game 3, and at my brothers house for the win in Game 4. Hate to have left before the series ended but that’s how the cookie crumbled. Lets go Sox and ill keep up the faith in Cardinals country.
He makes Jim Nantz look like the Dos Equis guy