a new poll out today by Suffolk University / Boston Globe taken after the debate shows Clinton pulling ahead of Sanders by 2 points — 37-35 — in New Hampshire.
One thing Clinton is doing quite a bit more than Sanders is actual voter contact – canvassing, calls, house parties, etc. Sanders has just started to do a bit of that and the other three are nowhere to be found on that count.
fredrichlaricciasays
I met her 2 weeks ago at Manchester Community College on the rope line. She was warm and generous, looked me in the eye, talked with me and made me feel like I was the only person in the auditorium.
This kind of retail politics campaigning where any interested citizen can meet the candidate — one on one — and engage in meaningful conversation — is critical to winning over the highly intelligent and sophisticated voters of New Hampshire.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
whoaitsjoesays
You know what shouldn’t make you feel good? Not taking positions on important issues or claiming consistency when you are veritably not consistent. Supporting a no-fly zone over Syria. Claiming to have read the TPP accord in a nationally televised debate when it hasn’t been released for people to actually read yet. Claiming that being a woman makes a lifetime insider an outsider all of a sudden. Having your entire campaign financed by the banking industry. Being the secretary of state during the largest upset of regional stability in the middle east that lead to the biggest humanitarian crisis of my lifetime.
Fred, if a personal connection is all it takes for you to swoon over a candidate, I will come to your house and kiss you on the lips to support Sanders, Webb, or even Lincoln Chafee.
fredrichlaricciasays
you can come to my house and kiss me. But not on the lips. Jackass.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
fredrichlaricciasays
ASPIRATION, YOU CON TROLL.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
whoaitsjoesays
at your effusion of love for Hillary Clinton for shaking your hand and talking to you for a minute does not make me a con troll. While an appeal to emotion is important in a presidential race, when you have nothing but emotion, it’s asking for a completely vapid person getting elected (see: trump).
Why do you like Hillary Clinton? She treated you like a human being at an event. Big woop. Why else?
“So while I think my candidate, Hillary Clinton, was best prepared and presidential — my main take away was a deep sense of pride of where we, as Democrats, are at now.” That doesn’t mean A THING. Vapid.
“This is the essence of my political philosophy in a nutshell. What public good will progressives have achieved if, at the end of the day, we fail to reach the goal of meaningful change for the 99% of the people we are championing ?
I believe Hillary Clinton is our best chance of reaching and accomplishing that goal.” Why? Hillary is funded by Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan. She doesn’t provide insight or real meaningful discussion into this issue the way Sanders does. Vapid.
Look man, I get that there’s a certain pragmatism behind Hillary. People embedded in the establishment can sometimes work it better than those on the outside and get results that way. But we’re in it pretty deep, now. We need something that will radically change the situation this country is in. Not inch it one way or the other. And she will be an inchworm. I don’t know what she put in your dunks to get you head over heels with policy points taken off Bernie’s website and, your personal interaction aside, the authenticity of a $25 Louis Vuitton bag, but she isn’t the droid your looking for.
jotaemeisays
Having your entire campaign financed by the banking industry.
The meme going around about who Clinton’s main campaign financiers vs. Sanders’ is misleading as it goes back to contributions for both of the candidates since 1989. The numbers for Clinton’s current campaign for president show something different. While it’s true that most of Sanders’ money comes from small donations while most of Clinton’s money comes from large donations, Hillary Clinton isn’t currently the person who was in Wall St.’s pocket some years ago.
Our ruling
Social media memes say that Clinton’s top 10 donors are mainly “banks, corporations and media,” while Bernie Sanders’ top 10 donors are labor unions. This contention fits quite closely with campaign data from the Center for Responsive Politics. However, it’s worth noting that this data refers to cumulative donations as far back as the 1980s, rather than just donations to their current presidential bids. The statement is accurate but needs clarification, so we rate it Mostly True.
Clinton does continue to receive contributions from the financial industry, but it’s not as pronounced, and Sanders’ campaign accepts a contribution from them as well (I’m considering Merrill Lynch).
So, there’s some truth to Paul Krugman’s assertion that
There was a time when Wall Street was quite favorable to Democrats. Partly this was probably cultural: finance does, after all, center in New York, it tends to be fairly liberal on social issues, and it’s not comfortable with what Ben Bernanke calls the “knuckle-draggers.” Partly it reflects the reality that the economy has tended to do better under Democrats. And for a long time, to be frank, Democrats were all too willing to go along with financial deregulation.
But that all changed in 2010, when Democrats actually pushed through a significant although far from adequate financial reform, and Barack Obama said the obvious, that some financial types had behaved badly and helped cause the crisis. The result was a great freakout — the coming of “Obama rage”.
(although it’s not true that Dems no longer receive any contributions from the finance industry)
kirthsays
The Politifact article you linked to, about the supposedly “misinformed” meme that Clinton’s money comes from corporations concludes with this sentence:
The statement is accurate but needs clarification, so we rate it Mostly True.
Then, on examining the Open Secrets lists of donors, it’s true that Clinton’s largest contributors are all big law firms, not banks, but those firms all have clients in the finance industry. Do you suppose the law firms would risk offending those clients by backing their enemy? I think it more likely that the bank clients are laundering their money through the law firms, so that Clinton can appear to be unconnected to them. Then, further down her list, you get to Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan Chase, etc. Then look at Sanders’ contributors; only the top two barely break five digits, and they are Google and a wine company.
This new, allegedly non-corporate Clinton campaign financing is the spin, not the old — and I think still true — meme that most of Clinton’s money comes from big corporations. It still does.
whoaitsjoesays
only because she saw Bernie do it.
Mark L. Bailsays
Just trying to elect a captain. We still have to play together.
This sniping is the same EVERY primary season. I remember when Obama supporters couldn’t contain their enthusiasm in 2008. Hillary supporters didn’t deserve to live. Maybe if we kept to the high road of our preferred candidates we could all get a long?
SomervilleTomsays
My chosen candidate was Bernie Sanders until Tuesday night’s debate. I now support Hillary Clinton, based on my observation of the two candidates side by side. I presume that such changes are why candidates bother with debates, campaign appearances, and stump speeches.
One aspect that influenced my change of heart and mind was my sense that Mr. Sanders was excessively dour and strident, especially in comparison to Ms. Clinton’s humor and self-deprecation.
Caustic sarcasm, direct insult, and similar invective is not an effective way to invite and encourage changes like mine.
jotaemeisays
I remember when Obama supporters couldn’t contain their enthusiasm in 2008. Hillary supporters didn’t deserve to live.
Though I remember more of Harriet Christian, the PUMAs, the “No Quarter” asshole (who’s gone on to attack Clinton), and Geraldine Ferraro throwing every dart accusation of sexism at Obama hoping that one of them would hit the target.
Peter Porcupinesays
One said Biden will announce and the other said Webb will go independent.
I still can’t believe that Biden will run.
But what does the BMG hive mind think about Webb? Is it possible that a non-Democrat will get the nomination and the Democrat will run as an independen?
SomervilleTomsays
I think Bernie Sanders has a vanishingly small and decreasing chance of getting the Democratic nomination.
I think support for Mr. Webb is mostly limited to Mr. Webb, his immediate family, and his paid staff. He certainly did not help himself in last week’s debate.
I get that the media (and perhaps some Republicans) would love for Joe Biden to run. I hope, for his own sake, that he decides against it.
doublemansays
Some outlets are reporting that Biden will announce that he is in.
I’d still put my money (although not my vote) on Clinton, but this might make some more states pretty interesting.
Webb has absolutely no chance. He has less than zero charisma – he won’t be able to raise the money. Of those running, Trump has the best chance at an independent run.
Christophersays
…but I would love to see Biden endorse Clinton and solidify her position as this campaign’s designated successor to the President.
jotaemeisays
It’s illuminating. Prior to the debates, there was this chatter about the Dem establishment and backers getting antsy that Clinton was going down because of her emails, and that they would have to get behind Biden as the back up plan. After the debate, and all the press falling all over themselves to anoint Clinton, there have been recommendations that Biden should stay out, and that if he got in, he’d be just setting himself for embarrassing failure.
What does that say about what people think about Biden? That he’s just a place holder with nothing distinct about himself from Clinton? The arguments I’ve heard of support for him have been much by people who like Clinton’s policies but just don’t like her as a person, or who were touched by Biden in a speech (not about policy, but because he’s charismatic and personable).
There’s been a theory that Clinton’s coming out against the Keystone XL pipeline and the TPP wasn’t necessarily about being pushed to the left by Sanders but to distinguish herself from Biden who would be stuck siding with the president and his decreasing support from the Democratic grass roots.
Related: Apparently, Lawrence Lessig is too considering switching to running as an independent.
jconwaysays
Good, that confirms his irrelevance. There are few things as damaging as naïveté masquerading as wisdom.
Had Joe announced his campaign earlier I might’ve defected, I love the man. But he would effectively be running to Hillary’s right on economics, her left on foreign policy and identical to her on social issues, with the exception of choice where he as an admirably moderate and informed position on abortion Clinton would be able to effectively rip to shreds.
It also bothers me his backers in the media tend to be the same “Irish Catholic mafia” that always had it in for the Clinton’s and Gore. Maureen Dowd, Chris Matthews, Luke Russert, and old Kennedy hands like Jeff Greenfield and Bib Shrum. They were big Obama backers in 2008 and I defended them from this attack, but it’s hard to not to think they have been pushing this to fight old grudges that are personal rather than political. Dowd started the latest round of rumors back in August.
Christopher says
One thing Clinton is doing quite a bit more than Sanders is actual voter contact – canvassing, calls, house parties, etc. Sanders has just started to do a bit of that and the other three are nowhere to be found on that count.
fredrichlariccia says
I met her 2 weeks ago at Manchester Community College on the rope line. She was warm and generous, looked me in the eye, talked with me and made me feel like I was the only person in the auditorium.
This kind of retail politics campaigning where any interested citizen can meet the candidate — one on one — and engage in meaningful conversation — is critical to winning over the highly intelligent and sophisticated voters of New Hampshire.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
whoaitsjoe says
You know what shouldn’t make you feel good? Not taking positions on important issues or claiming consistency when you are veritably not consistent. Supporting a no-fly zone over Syria. Claiming to have read the TPP accord in a nationally televised debate when it hasn’t been released for people to actually read yet. Claiming that being a woman makes a lifetime insider an outsider all of a sudden. Having your entire campaign financed by the banking industry. Being the secretary of state during the largest upset of regional stability in the middle east that lead to the biggest humanitarian crisis of my lifetime.
Fred, if a personal connection is all it takes for you to swoon over a candidate, I will come to your house and kiss you on the lips to support Sanders, Webb, or even Lincoln Chafee.
fredrichlariccia says
you can come to my house and kiss me. But not on the lips. Jackass.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
fredrichlariccia says
ASPIRATION, YOU CON TROLL.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
whoaitsjoe says
at your effusion of love for Hillary Clinton for shaking your hand and talking to you for a minute does not make me a con troll. While an appeal to emotion is important in a presidential race, when you have nothing but emotion, it’s asking for a completely vapid person getting elected (see: trump).
Why do you like Hillary Clinton? She treated you like a human being at an event. Big woop. Why else?
“So while I think my candidate, Hillary Clinton, was best prepared and presidential — my main take away was a deep sense of pride of where we, as Democrats, are at now.” That doesn’t mean A THING. Vapid.
“This is the essence of my political philosophy in a nutshell. What public good will progressives have achieved if, at the end of the day, we fail to reach the goal of meaningful change for the 99% of the people we are championing ?
I believe Hillary Clinton is our best chance of reaching and accomplishing that goal.” Why? Hillary is funded by Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan. She doesn’t provide insight or real meaningful discussion into this issue the way Sanders does. Vapid.
Look man, I get that there’s a certain pragmatism behind Hillary. People embedded in the establishment can sometimes work it better than those on the outside and get results that way. But we’re in it pretty deep, now. We need something that will radically change the situation this country is in. Not inch it one way or the other. And she will be an inchworm. I don’t know what she put in your dunks to get you head over heels with policy points taken off Bernie’s website and, your personal interaction aside, the authenticity of a $25 Louis Vuitton bag, but she isn’t the droid your looking for.
jotaemei says
The meme going around about who Clinton’s main campaign financiers vs. Sanders’ is misleading as it goes back to contributions for both of the candidates since 1989. The numbers for Clinton’s current campaign for president show something different. While it’s true that most of Sanders’ money comes from small donations while most of Clinton’s money comes from large donations, Hillary Clinton isn’t currently the person who was in Wall St.’s pocket some years ago.
Source: “Meme says Hillary Clinton’s top donors are banks and corporations, Bernie Sanders’ are labor unions”
One can confirm by looking at their current top campaign contributions at OpenSecrets.org:
Hillary Clinton’s top contributions for president
Bernie Sanders’ top contributions for president
Clinton does continue to receive contributions from the financial industry, but it’s not as pronounced, and Sanders’ campaign accepts a contribution from them as well (I’m considering Merrill Lynch).
So, there’s some truth to Paul Krugman’s assertion that
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/the-waaaaah-street-factor/
(although it’s not true that Dems no longer receive any contributions from the finance industry)
kirth says
The Politifact article you linked to, about the supposedly “misinformed” meme that Clinton’s money comes from corporations concludes with this sentence:
Then, on examining the Open Secrets lists of donors, it’s true that Clinton’s largest contributors are all big law firms, not banks, but those firms all have clients in the finance industry. Do you suppose the law firms would risk offending those clients by backing their enemy? I think it more likely that the bank clients are laundering their money through the law firms, so that Clinton can appear to be unconnected to them. Then, further down her list, you get to Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan Chase, etc. Then look at Sanders’ contributors; only the top two barely break five digits, and they are Google and a wine company.
This new, allegedly non-corporate Clinton campaign financing is the spin, not the old — and I think still true — meme that most of Clinton’s money comes from big corporations. It still does.
whoaitsjoe says
only because she saw Bernie do it.
Mark L. Bail says
Just trying to elect a captain. We still have to play together.
This sniping is the same EVERY primary season. I remember when Obama supporters couldn’t contain their enthusiasm in 2008. Hillary supporters didn’t deserve to live. Maybe if we kept to the high road of our preferred candidates we could all get a long?
SomervilleTom says
My chosen candidate was Bernie Sanders until Tuesday night’s debate. I now support Hillary Clinton, based on my observation of the two candidates side by side. I presume that such changes are why candidates bother with debates, campaign appearances, and stump speeches.
One aspect that influenced my change of heart and mind was my sense that Mr. Sanders was excessively dour and strident, especially in comparison to Ms. Clinton’s humor and self-deprecation.
Caustic sarcasm, direct insult, and similar invective is not an effective way to invite and encourage changes like mine.
jotaemei says
Though I remember more of Harriet Christian, the PUMAs, the “No Quarter” asshole (who’s gone on to attack Clinton), and Geraldine Ferraro throwing every dart accusation of sexism at Obama hoping that one of them would hit the target.
Peter Porcupine says
One said Biden will announce and the other said Webb will go independent.
I still can’t believe that Biden will run.
But what does the BMG hive mind think about Webb? Is it possible that a non-Democrat will get the nomination and the Democrat will run as an independen?
SomervilleTom says
I think Bernie Sanders has a vanishingly small and decreasing chance of getting the Democratic nomination.
I think support for Mr. Webb is mostly limited to Mr. Webb, his immediate family, and his paid staff. He certainly did not help himself in last week’s debate.
I get that the media (and perhaps some Republicans) would love for Joe Biden to run. I hope, for his own sake, that he decides against it.
doubleman says
Some outlets are reporting that Biden will announce that he is in.
I’d still put my money (although not my vote) on Clinton, but this might make some more states pretty interesting.
Webb has absolutely no chance. He has less than zero charisma – he won’t be able to raise the money. Of those running, Trump has the best chance at an independent run.
Christopher says
…but I would love to see Biden endorse Clinton and solidify her position as this campaign’s designated successor to the President.
jotaemei says
It’s illuminating. Prior to the debates, there was this chatter about the Dem establishment and backers getting antsy that Clinton was going down because of her emails, and that they would have to get behind Biden as the back up plan. After the debate, and all the press falling all over themselves to anoint Clinton, there have been recommendations that Biden should stay out, and that if he got in, he’d be just setting himself for embarrassing failure.
What does that say about what people think about Biden? That he’s just a place holder with nothing distinct about himself from Clinton? The arguments I’ve heard of support for him have been much by people who like Clinton’s policies but just don’t like her as a person, or who were touched by Biden in a speech (not about policy, but because he’s charismatic and personable).
There’s been a theory that Clinton’s coming out against the Keystone XL pipeline and the TPP wasn’t necessarily about being pushed to the left by Sanders but to distinguish herself from Biden who would be stuck siding with the president and his decreasing support from the Democratic grass roots.
Related: Apparently, Lawrence Lessig is too considering switching to running as an independent.
jconway says
Good, that confirms his irrelevance. There are few things as damaging as naïveté masquerading as wisdom.
jotaemei says
“Lawrence Lessig Ends His Long-Shot Presidential Bid“
jconway says
Had Joe announced his campaign earlier I might’ve defected, I love the man. But he would effectively be running to Hillary’s right on economics, her left on foreign policy and identical to her on social issues, with the exception of choice where he as an admirably moderate and informed position on abortion Clinton would be able to effectively rip to shreds.
It also bothers me his backers in the media tend to be the same “Irish Catholic mafia” that always had it in for the Clinton’s and Gore. Maureen Dowd, Chris Matthews, Luke Russert, and old Kennedy hands like Jeff Greenfield and Bib Shrum. They were big Obama backers in 2008 and I defended them from this attack, but it’s hard to not to think they have been pushing this to fight old grudges that are personal rather than political. Dowd started the latest round of rumors back in August.