One anti-Obama conservative Democrat on why the socialist from Vermont is getting his vote:
For one thing, he knows what union is, and he respects it,” said Brannon. “That’s all we need is respect. He’s just a likeable fella, trustworthy. I don’t think she has the same respect for the union, and she really shot herself in the foot over, you know, all that secretive stuff.”
Whether Bernie wins or not, he is bringing people we wrote off back into the Democratic fold. Clinton should harness that for her own campaign, she will need that to win.
fredrichlaricciasays
even after a year-long bogus Puke / media Benghazi smear campaign.
She’s only going to get stronger from this point forward as the shameful truth of their corrupt bargain is exposed.
Now the people know what a sham this witch hunt was from day one.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
joeltpattersonsays
is doing roughly what they’ve done in most Democratic primaries in the past: support the establishment candidate (be it Kerry vs. Dean, Gore vs. Bradley).
As a matter of rhetoric and past performance, personal and political, he offers far more to people with <40K than any other candidate. I’d say more than either Dean or Bradley. That is what I found interesting.
jconwaysays
I barely knew who Sanders was when I met him after he spoke at U Chicago in 2009, it was only during our conversation I realized he was a fellow Maroon.
I fall into that income demo at present, but am an outlier since I have a BA, and I’m a single filer. Many of my predominately female and African American co-workers are raising families on the same salary as I am, some trying to send kids to college, and there is just no time on the paycheck to paycheck cycle to think about the news. Many live in communities devastated by gun violence and the news is often the last thing they want to talk about or watch, so I don’t blame them for not knowing who any of these folks are. They know Hillary and they like Bill, they like that Biden has stood behind Obama, whom they have all met to a person, and they dislike Bush and Trump for being racist.
‘Bernie who?’ was what I got from them when I mentioned who I was voting for in the break room, they are looking him up and like what he has to say, but he has never been a presence in their community. Bill campaigned in Gary, so did Hillary in 2008. Bill campaigned in Cabrini-Green and directly confronted the CHA during the late 90s, many of them remember seeing him personally or the coverage on the news. All of them have a Barack story.
My sister is white and lives in Marlboro not the South Side, but she falls into that demo and hasn’t heard of Sanders either. The rallies are nice, but a lot of time he is preaching to the converted. Going to an HBCU, continuing to go to Latino activist conferences, and having a soul food sitdown with voters and not just Larry Willmore is the next step he has to take.
Christophersays
I get that WE are the outliers as political junkies, but I thought Sanders would have penetrated by osmosis by now.
jconwaysays
We haven’t had any primetime debates (thanks Debbie!), and the news coverage he got still treats him like an oddity rather than a mainstream candidate. Fortunately, that is finally changing. He will be appearing on Ellen next week which has a large daytime audience of the kind of women and minority voters he needs to appeal to.
Next week we will finally have a debate! I expect his numbers to rise, but I would be lying if I thought he would beat Hillary in the women or African American demographic. I do think he can start cutting her lead there, and he is gaining an under the radar Latino constituency that could be decisive in labor heavy Nevada, where the debate will be held incidentally. The real campaign has only just begun.
Incredible that her edge with women is so small, it’s within the margin of error. Women don’t vote for women (any more than they vote for men they agree with ideologically).
fredrichlaricciasays
The margin of error is 5%.
Am I missing something here ?
Fred Rich LaRiccia
SomervilleTomsays
I think the relevant comparison is the DIFFERENCE in her numbers between men and women voters (only Clinton/Sanders shown):
men: 43/28
women: 46/22
It looks to me as though she pulls 46% of the women, versus 43% of the men — just a 3 point difference (well within the margin of error).
The women polled are more likely to vote for Joe Biden than the men, and that explains the 28/22 difference in the numbers for Bernie Sanders.
It looks to me as though this poll says that Ms. Clinton does NOT have a statistically significant edge with women voters.
fredrichlaricciasays
in EVERY demographic !
At this stage of the campaign and considering all the bullshit that’s been thrown against her ; I’d still rather be in Hillary’s position that Bernie’s or Joe’s.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
SomervilleTomsays
She’s far and away the most visible and best known of the candidates. She was nearly the nominee in 2008.
Joe Biden isn’t even a candidate.
Bernie Sanders knew this was an uphill fight, and entered anyway. I suspect that the Sanders campaign may be quite happy that this poll has support for Mr. Sanders as high as it is.
Cheerleading for our candidate is great, and is part of every interesting primary season. I would caution you about being overly negative towards the candidates that you don’t support — at least one of them (Bernie Sanders) has much to be happy about in this poll.
fredrichlaricciasays
Bernie DOES have much to be happy about in this poll. He has made steady progress up to now and I have no intention of disparaging him or his supporters; many of whom are longtime personal friends.
However, primary races are competitions and serve to prepare the winner for the tougher general election fight.
There is nothing wrong with us debating the policy positions of our respective candidates and even disagreeing with each other from time to time as long as we do it respectfully.
A good example of this is the gun issue. I just learned today that Bernie voted against the background check Brady bill. I didn’t know that but in light of Hillary’s strong anti-NRA position that she outlined yesterday in Manchester, I don’t think it is negative to debate these issues and I’m sure that it will be brought up in the debate next week.
Adults can disagree without being disagreeable and we should all remember Jefferson’s wisdom that “every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle”.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
jconwaysays
Paul Simmons has a rather sober analytical approach to the horse race compared to most folks here and certainly the media. It is still an uphill battle for Bernie Sanders, that does not mean it isn’t a primary and a debate worth having, and most Clinton supporters here recognize it. At the end of the day, a strong primary will make both of them better potential nominees while ensuring the country can see individuals have a civil debate around substantive issues. Their debate next week will stand in stark contrast to the reality show spectacle that Trump has brought to the GOP race, one his opponents have sunk to rather than risen above.
While climate change, women’s rights, gay rights, foreign policy, and policing minority communities achieved next to no recognition or acknowledgement on the GOP side, they will be front and center on ours. This is the debate America wants and needs, and I am happy both of our leading candidates will be providing this contrast.
This was a fantastic piece in the Washington Post.
One anti-Obama conservative Democrat on why the socialist from Vermont is getting his vote:
Whether Bernie wins or not, he is bringing people we wrote off back into the Democratic fold. Clinton should harness that for her own campaign, she will need that to win.
even after a year-long bogus Puke / media Benghazi smear campaign.
She’s only going to get stronger from this point forward as the shameful truth of their corrupt bargain is exposed.
Now the people know what a sham this witch hunt was from day one.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
is doing roughly what they’ve done in most Democratic primaries in the past: support the establishment candidate (be it Kerry vs. Dean, Gore vs. Bradley).
As a matter of rhetoric and past performance, personal and political, he offers far more to people with <40K than any other candidate. I’d say more than either Dean or Bradley. That is what I found interesting.
I barely knew who Sanders was when I met him after he spoke at U Chicago in 2009, it was only during our conversation I realized he was a fellow Maroon.
I fall into that income demo at present, but am an outlier since I have a BA, and I’m a single filer. Many of my predominately female and African American co-workers are raising families on the same salary as I am, some trying to send kids to college, and there is just no time on the paycheck to paycheck cycle to think about the news. Many live in communities devastated by gun violence and the news is often the last thing they want to talk about or watch, so I don’t blame them for not knowing who any of these folks are. They know Hillary and they like Bill, they like that Biden has stood behind Obama, whom they have all met to a person, and they dislike Bush and Trump for being racist.
‘Bernie who?’ was what I got from them when I mentioned who I was voting for in the break room, they are looking him up and like what he has to say, but he has never been a presence in their community. Bill campaigned in Gary, so did Hillary in 2008. Bill campaigned in Cabrini-Green and directly confronted the CHA during the late 90s, many of them remember seeing him personally or the coverage on the news. All of them have a Barack story.
My sister is white and lives in Marlboro not the South Side, but she falls into that demo and hasn’t heard of Sanders either. The rallies are nice, but a lot of time he is preaching to the converted. Going to an HBCU, continuing to go to Latino activist conferences, and having a soul food sitdown with voters and not just Larry Willmore is the next step he has to take.
I get that WE are the outliers as political junkies, but I thought Sanders would have penetrated by osmosis by now.
We haven’t had any primetime debates (thanks Debbie!), and the news coverage he got still treats him like an oddity rather than a mainstream candidate. Fortunately, that is finally changing. He will be appearing on Ellen next week which has a large daytime audience of the kind of women and minority voters he needs to appeal to.
Next week we will finally have a debate! I expect his numbers to rise, but I would be lying if I thought he would beat Hillary in the women or African American demographic. I do think he can start cutting her lead there, and he is gaining an under the radar Latino constituency that could be decisive in labor heavy Nevada, where the debate will be held incidentally. The real campaign has only just begun.
Incredible that her edge with women is so small, it’s within the margin of error. Women don’t vote for women (any more than they vote for men they agree with ideologically).
The margin of error is 5%.
Am I missing something here ?
Fred Rich LaRiccia
I think the relevant comparison is the DIFFERENCE in her numbers between men and women voters (only Clinton/Sanders shown):
It looks to me as though she pulls 46% of the women, versus 43% of the men — just a 3 point difference (well within the margin of error).
The women polled are more likely to vote for Joe Biden than the men, and that explains the 28/22 difference in the numbers for Bernie Sanders.
It looks to me as though this poll says that Ms. Clinton does NOT have a statistically significant edge with women voters.
in EVERY demographic !
At this stage of the campaign and considering all the bullshit that’s been thrown against her ; I’d still rather be in Hillary’s position that Bernie’s or Joe’s.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
She’s far and away the most visible and best known of the candidates. She was nearly the nominee in 2008.
Joe Biden isn’t even a candidate.
Bernie Sanders knew this was an uphill fight, and entered anyway. I suspect that the Sanders campaign may be quite happy that this poll has support for Mr. Sanders as high as it is.
Cheerleading for our candidate is great, and is part of every interesting primary season. I would caution you about being overly negative towards the candidates that you don’t support — at least one of them (Bernie Sanders) has much to be happy about in this poll.
Bernie DOES have much to be happy about in this poll. He has made steady progress up to now and I have no intention of disparaging him or his supporters; many of whom are longtime personal friends.
However, primary races are competitions and serve to prepare the winner for the tougher general election fight.
There is nothing wrong with us debating the policy positions of our respective candidates and even disagreeing with each other from time to time as long as we do it respectfully.
A good example of this is the gun issue. I just learned today that Bernie voted against the background check Brady bill. I didn’t know that but in light of Hillary’s strong anti-NRA position that she outlined yesterday in Manchester, I don’t think it is negative to debate these issues and I’m sure that it will be brought up in the debate next week.
Adults can disagree without being disagreeable and we should all remember Jefferson’s wisdom that “every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle”.
Fred Rich LaRiccia
Paul Simmons has a rather sober analytical approach to the horse race compared to most folks here and certainly the media. It is still an uphill battle for Bernie Sanders, that does not mean it isn’t a primary and a debate worth having, and most Clinton supporters here recognize it. At the end of the day, a strong primary will make both of them better potential nominees while ensuring the country can see individuals have a civil debate around substantive issues. Their debate next week will stand in stark contrast to the reality show spectacle that Trump has brought to the GOP race, one his opponents have sunk to rather than risen above.
While climate change, women’s rights, gay rights, foreign policy, and policing minority communities achieved next to no recognition or acknowledgement on the GOP side, they will be front and center on ours. This is the debate America wants and needs, and I am happy both of our leading candidates will be providing this contrast.