It’s no secret that many in the Dem party do not like Hillary. In fact  I’m one of them. Yesterday I pointed to a column from the Daily Beast mentioning the many secret Trump voters among progressive Democrats.
Well I never….
It’s now BMG gospel that I’m voting for Donald and of course hate women. Fools! All of you, fools.
BTW, who was the sexist blogger who predicted Liz Warren as VP nominee back when it was unfashionable?
That’s right, me. The one you bow to.
Please share widely!
Editors, this is a case study on why there should be a “derecommend” option on diaries. Many of us react to trollish comments by downrating and moving on, but there is no way to do that to diaries.
You just don’t get it, do you?
Don’t fight it Christopher. Come and join us. You’re among friends here.
As soon as BMG adds this feature I’ll subscribe.
You write a post and people take you at your word. You spend years building a persona, and we react to exactly that persona.
It’s no secret that the right wing spent a fortune over several decades to create the hostility towards Ms. Clinton that you pander to. It’s no secret that misogyny was and is a foundation stone of those attacks.
Anybody who is contemplating a vote for Donald Trump is lying to themselves and the rest of us if they claim to be a progressive Democrat.
People react to exactly what you write here. Pure and simple — if you vote for Donald Trump, you are no Democrat.
You write a comment that make know sense and Elizabeth Warren’s No.1 political guru writes a comment agreeing with me.
And BTW you stating that Hillary’s reputation of dishonesty is only the result of 20 years of right wing propoganda sounds like the rantings of a Holocaust denier.
How’s that right wing conspiracy done making Obama out to be a liar, cheater, corrupt, adulterer, bushwhacker, pole dancing..?
Exactly.
As played by Joan Crawford.
You wouldn’t call me a Troll for Trump if I wasn’t in this chair.
n/t
Susan Sarandon and a self described anarchist writing on the Daily Beast do not a sample make.
In the other thread I did like to data the Times produced confirming my hunch that white males who voted for Obama or stayed home are coming out for Trump in 2016. This is a troubling trend in four states so far (OH, PA, FL and WI) which are far closer or even showing leads for Trump than they ever did for Romney in 2012.
Obama and Hillary are starting their joint appearances in Wisconsin and likely recognize the rust belt has to hold. The Michigan primary results were also cause for concern, since support for Hillary was limited to the big cities and Ann Arbor. The maps looked awfully close to the Snyder victories and legislative romps that turned that state red locally. Granted, current polling in that state shows Hillary doing as well as Obama did.
Many of the Bernie voters I’ve talked to here in the Bay State like Stein and Johnson, which in a solid blue or red state are effectively votes for Hillary. Johnson is polling 16% in Utah which has yet to embrace Trump. So we will see how that plays out as well. The Trump campaign has hired pollsters and is hiring staff to win New York, a vanity campaign his cash strapped team can’t afford. Trump is electable, an argument I’ve been making for months. But he will squander that electability with continued mismanagement of his campaign.
I’ve seen and been informed about reports from focus groups around the country that show a surprising number of Sanders voters talking about deciding to vote for Sanders or Trump. The research indicates this group of voters is motivated not by a hatred of Clinton, but rather a deep frustration with the current system and a desire to vote for something that will change / blow up the current political structure. Now whether that holds through the General, with Trump making racist statements and clueless policy proposals on a daily basis, is open for debate. My guess is that it will not, and that the vast majority of these voters will end up voting for Clinton, but that is not a foregone conclusion.
n/t
I appreciate the data you cite, and it’s consistent with similar information jconway has been posting here for awhile.
This misses my argument against the premise that EB3 offers, though. His claim is that PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS contemplate Donald Trump, as opposed to the Sanders voters you cite here.
In my view, any voter who embraces the lies, misogyny, racism, ignorance, and everything else of Donald Trump is no Democrat — never mind progressive Democrat.
Many of the people in the focus groups I cite self-identify as progressive Democrats. They have supported progressive democrats in the past – or at least tell the focus group moderators that they have.
My experience is that there are a wide range of “progressive Democrats” and that some of them are very frustrated with the current system and feel left out of the process – and believe that they only way to move forward is massive change or, as Bernie Sanders say, a political revolution. The data suggests that some of these people are seriously deciding between Trump and Sanders.
Like I said, I’m not convinced this will last as more people see Trump for what he is – but the data does give some support to eb3’s premise. It’s something the Clinton campaign and Democrats in general need to consider as they work to elect Clinton in the fall.
One could imagine two other motivations for your self-described progressive voting for Trump.
One is voting based on personality. Even Coakley ran as a “fighter”. Progressives seem to like the fighter image. Senator Sanders certainly conveys that. Trump, too. Clinton may be more effective at achieving stuff; her fighting has less braggadocio and martial rhetoric, and so she may not appear like a fighter.
Trump, by the way, also connects the problems of the middle class to the weakness of democratic (little d) governance. In his telling, trade deals are negotiated by politically correct, namby pamby negotiators with no business experience and so they make bad deals that sell us all down the river. A tough Putin-like person such as himself would never cause that.
Another possible motivation is the whole “heightening the contradictions” thing so popular on the outer reaches of the sixties Left. Trump will shake things up. He’ll either be super fabulous, or so horrible the masses will flood the streets.
*
Senator Sanders’ voters have tended to be whiter and less female than Clinton’s. That might explain some of the lack of concern — or the willingness to believe Trump’s self-justifications.
…the idea that Clinton is not a fighter. Her rhetoric uses generous doses of “fighting for you” or similar and I’ve always thought she would have fought harder than Obama on many things where the current President seemed to prenegotiate.
Mrs. Clinton’s enemies are worthy but abstract: inequality, sexism, lack of opportunity, etc. Mr. Trump’s enemies are actual people: Little Rubio, Crooked Hillary, Lying Ted Cruz. Sen. Sanders’ enemy is Wall Street. Mr. Trump wants bad things to happen to his enemies; Mr Sanders wants his enemies to lose out in certain ways. By contrast, Mrs. Clinton does not wish to “smash sexism” as the Maoists used to quaintly put it: We don’t expect to see promulgators of gender inequality in wages publicly scorned and shamed; we expect, instead, that, under the influence of beneficial laws achieved by careful legislating and negotiating they will do the right thing.
Theatrically, what Mrs. Clinton proposes does not look like fighting.
It’s why I think that even if Clinton wins this year in a rout as the decent American against an indecent American and that’s the election, she will have to govern as a dismantler of an unpopular system and not simply an effective creature of that system. People want to see the system itself replaced with something less corrupt, less cliquey, and more open to the people and their input. If she can’t provide that change someone else will, and their will remain a risk of another demagogue down the road either from the left or the right. America doesn’t need a Chavez either, let alone a Trump.
quit insisting Hillary is all things good. It is so insulting.
But it will be hers in this campaign. I’m not a Hillary partisan and agree with you she has many electoral challenges.
Early and often.
Hillary gooooooooood, the Donald baaaaaaaaaaaaad. đŸ™‚
HILL, YES !
Fred Rich LaRiccia