To paraphrase Matthew Murray’s eloquent post elsewhere, instead of using an additional $850,000 to house or feed the homeless, educate our young, or reduce violence, the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston would prefer to intercede in a referendum to prevent adults from finally being able to make their own choices with regard to cannabis. Incredible: http://dlvr.it/MY6dDF
Is the Catholic Church determined to make itself as irrelevant politically here as it already is in Montreal and much of Europe? What on earth does this issue have to do with theology?
Please share widely!
Bazinga!
…to bear witness on a matter of public policy. If they are looking for scriptural support they can go with the idea that the human body is a temple which should not be defiled. Obviously, that’s not a good reason for a state to enact policy, but it’s a fine reason for a church to put in its two cents.
And the reason the Church does this sort of stupid thing periodically is that there’s a tiny minority who will excuse anything they do. Not enough to keep the Church solvent or relevant, but they’re there…
My local parish is cutting all of it’s staff and selling off two of its remaining buildings citing the “diocese wide” financial crisis. And yet they found funds to blow on this campaign? And the anti-gambling campaign last year, and the anti-euthanasia campaign the election before.
I was with them on those last two issues, but when they are making painful cuts and closures to continue to pay for diocesean failures to address pedophilia within the ranks of the clergy, they lose the moral authority to play politics. Fix our own broken shrinking house first, and our wounded people first, then worry about fixing Beacon Hill.
… of parishoners not showing up nearly as often. I don’t know if that’s true in your parish, but it sure is in mine and many other parishes. It’s hard to hold on to all that staff and real estate when your folks just aren’t showing up as often.
The churches are reasonably well attended. Realistically, these are all old buildings built for the days when 500-1000 people would regular show up for Mass. The 75-150 we get now at each Mass is pretty good, especially compared to the mainline churches my father in law has pastored. Granted, Salem has already had several rounds of closures and consolidations. I think it’s folks in the pews, admittedly including yours truly, who don’t pony up what their grandparents did. One thing the Methodists have over Catholics besides casseroles and their hymnal is the tradition of tithing.
…of accusing fellow parishioners of being witches – just sayin’:)
– that was MY church – never mind!:)
Every day as a criminal defense attorney I see how alcohol defiles people’s bodies – and minds. I see alcohol causing violence. I see alcohol breaking up families. Meanwhile, I see my friends who are regular pot smokers running companies and corporations, designing buildings as architects, and pursuing successful careers in non-profits.
I also see cannabis easing the transition from opiate addiction to sanity like, frankly, nothing else. I wish the Catholic hierarchy would open its eyes, its minds, and its spirits.
The church’s heart is in the right place, but the position is based on a very strict philosophical approach to the issue rather than a nuanced one that encounters the reality of people’s lived lives.
And I think Pope Francis recognizes this, but the pastoral approach hasn’t always trickled down or trickled up. The typical parish priest gets it, the Pope sorta gets it, but the bishops still think their dioceses are personal fiefs for their personal agenda and that attitude has to stop for real progress to happen.
Today’s Roman Catholic church has driven away:
– Men and women who want to make their own choices about fertility
– Men and women who have been divorced
– Men and women appalled by clergy sex abuse
– Men and women who have had deal with abortion
– Men and women who view gender preference as approximately as important as left- or right-handedness.
– Men and women who view women as more than baby factories
– Women who are called to ordained ministry
– Men and women called to ordained ministry who are not celibate
This comment strikes me as more rationalization than fact. The church has shown us, over and over, where its heart is. As others have noted on this thread, the result is that people are voting with their feet.
The sad truth is that in today’s Roman Catholic church, dioceses ARE personal fiefs to advance the personal agenda of bishops. This is not new — the church has always been this way. This specific practice lies at the core of the forces that drove Protestantism during the Reformation. The specific reason why the Anglican Church broke with Rome was a conflict about bishops in England — who appointed them, how much power they had, and whether they were subject to Rome or London.
Nothing has changed, and nothing is likely to change.
Men and women who want to marry who they love, and those who support them.
Anyone who lived in the Boston area in the 90s has an indelible impression of the Catholic Church as a rich society that fought against marriage equality while protecting child molesters. The first part hasn’t changed at all, and the second not enough.
Chicago’s archdiocese feels like a younger, more vibrant, and browner church than Boston’s. We have just as much Hispanic immigration in Boston, it just hasn’t migrated into the suburbs as much. The other big difference is when Cardinal George was dropping the hammer on pedophiles, Cardinal Law was transferring them from parish to parish.
Though I disagree about Tom’s conclusions on sexual ethics as the delimiting factor in the Catholic decline. It’s not like the Unitarians and Episcopalians are thriving, they are closing churches at a much faster rate than we are. A friend who dropped out of Episcopalian seminary did so because they have the opposite problem, more priests than parishes, and she wouldn’t have been able to find a job to justify the debt.
This isn’t to say the Episcopalian approach to sexuality isn’t preferable, just that adopting social liberalism doesn’t automatically revitalize ailing churches. All churches, even evangelical ones, are losing membership at a rapid rate. We are entering into the post-Christian era in the West, or at least the death of Christendom. Some people are viewing this as a calamity, others are embracing our roots as a pre-Constantinian faith lurking in the margins and embracing the outcasts. I am hopeful that challenge can be embraced, and I am hopeful those that don’t share the faith can join us that do in this outreach.
I’ve begun attending All Saints (Episcopal) again. I noticed this morning (again) how gray the congregation is. I agree with your last paragraph. I find that I have to simply ignore the aspects of the liturgy that I can’t accept — I take a mens-room break during the Nicene creed.
I like the panentheism of the pre-Christian Celts.
The fundamental difference I see between the Roman Catholic tradition and the other is the top-down versus bottom-up power structure. In my view, this is the origin of the many issues of gender and sexuality — we’ve known for a long time that those are issues of power, not sex.
I thought St James in Teele Square was doing just fine. And Rene’s Cafe is there for post-church brunch, an essential rite in the Episcopalian church 😉
I’ve been attending Church of the Advent when I can, but it’s definitely a hike and I’ll only go when I’m heading to Cambridge after. I find a lot to admire about the Anglo-Catholic tradition, and we attended an AC mass back when we lived in Chicago. Grace Church, the TEC in Salem has a Celtic Mass, I will have to check it out! Glad to see you found somewhere that fits.
All Saints Brookline has a rich high-church tradition, world-class music, and has been my spiritual home (when I’ve had one) since 1975. It offers a Celtic Mass on Saturday afternoons, the oldest in the nation (we believe), starting in 2001. ASP is literally at the Dean Road stop on the Green Line. I encourage you to listen to the sermons of the Rector (Richard Burden), posted online at the above link. The annual “birthday party” is next Sunday — the full production, with smells, bells, and all the trappings. For those who enjoy a no-holds-barred traditional Anglican high-church service, it’s a treat.
There are several fine Episcopal congregations in Somerville. They offer a different experience.
It’s a hard combination to find a social justice focus, relevant preaching and liturgy done right. Definitely worth checking out when I’m in the area.
That was the classic Big Jim Conway move back when we went to St. Johns in Cambridge, or during the communion. I do respect the fact that he brought me and my nephew every Sunday despite his own misgivings.
One snowy Sunday after mass he even pulled over and forced us to help some elderly ladies shovel out their sidewalk as ‘our Christian duty’, which always stuck with me as the right kind of ‘Christian’ value to pass on.
“The Episcopal Church – for those who like Catholic practice with your Protestant doctrine.”:)
They accept the three fold ministry, Seven Sacraments, Communion of Saints, a definition of the real presence that is awfully close to transubstantiation, episcopal governance, and many have even retained ad orientum altars and altar rails. Sounds pretty Catholic to me.
But they are pretty protestant in practice when it comes to the individual using their own reasoned judgment alongside scripture and tradition to make moral decisions, and pretty protestant when it comes to after Mass fellowship and bomb casseroles. All pluses in my book!
My experience of Episcopalianism is High Mass (hence Catholic practice) while being more open about the Sacraments (Protestant doctrine).
It definitely varies from parish to parish, and New England is known as one of the lower church dioceses. One of the Advent priests I talked to mentioned he was the first pries at his North Shore parish to don the chasuble for communion there, causing a bit of a stir in the early 90’s.
…that I’ve attended Easter weekend services at Washington National Cathedral, so I’m sure they pull out all the stops!
I sometimes say that I am Catholic with Episcopalian envy.
… That’s exactly the argument the Church is making against marijuana legalization. You say you see defilement by alcohol in your law practice (but have friends who smoke dope so it’s ok). They say they see defilement by marijuana in their ministries (but actually use alcohol in their rituals). Who to believe, the priest or the lawyer? All we need is a used-car salesman to chime in and we’ll have a shyster trifecta.
Ok, that last was a cheap shot, on my part, but I’ll leave it in to underline the distrust society has for both lawyers and priests helping along the profound lack of clarity on the entire issue. Yes. I am saying that some people, perhaps even you, will be for marijuana legislation exactly and precisely because the Catholic Church is against it. That’s not any better a reason than I should be against it just because a lawyer is for it…
I do not doubt your experience with alcohol but I think you slight the impact of marijuana, which may be about to grow larger by several orders of magnitude. If you take the view, as i do, that when you scratch the surface of an addict you often find a deeply hurt person attempting to self-medicate. This can be whether the addiction is to alcohol or to marijuana or to something else entire. Not everyone who drinks alcohol is a problem. Not every one who smokes marijuana is going to do so purely for recreation. I remain unconvinced that broadening the spectrum of available self-prescribed medicaments is all that wise.
Ok. But please remember people once made similar claims about, well, opiates. Heroin was sold as a ‘pick-me-up’ and morphine was touted as a wonder drug. You can condescend upon the apparent naivete of those times and assume we now know better… but I see little evidence that we, in fact, do know better now.
I think the difficulty Question 4 is going to have is three fold:
1) Criminal Justice Argument
‘But we already decriminalized’
2) Medical Use
‘But we already allowed it for medical use’
3) Recreational Use/Common Sense/Revenue Generator
I think this is the area where Q4 has the best arguments, but these are also arguments that are going to have the highest hurdle getting past average voters who are still culturally accustomed to marijuana as a dangerous and illicit drug. It is dangerous, as dangerous as alcohol and tobacco, and this is why a well regulated market is the best way to ensure it’s safest consumption and that users pay back society for the privilege. That’s where I’m at, but it definitely hurts Q4 that 1 and 2 are perceived to have already happened and 3 is just a step too far for some folks. It’s going to be really tight.
I forget whether that was covered by the previous question, but I ask because there is an ad running that seems not to think so. It’s the one with the doctor expressing concern about people’s fear of breaking the law. I think it’s a bit misleading because it’s a fine ad if the question were proposing legalizing medical usage, but alas, the question is to legalize it for recreational usage.
I know the doctor in question, and his point is, it’s legal for him to proscribe it to his patients for specific ailments but he would lose his medical license if he was caught smoking it himself for recreational purposes. And that a well regulated, taxed market and licensing application is the better alternative for the 70% of Bay Stater’s who have used the drug for recreational purposes. And that a doctor is saying it isn’t medically dangerous when used in moderation, just like alcohol.
The one I’m referring to is narrated by a female doctor who makes no mention of wanting to smoke it recreationally herself, though there are plenty of drugs out there that a doctor is free to prescribe for medical necessity which s/he should not use recreationally.
Pain, seizures, etc. The dispensaries are not operating yet because after the law passed the state began its regulatory and bidding process and we all know THAT takes a couple of years, right? I mean, when did we legalize casinos?
This is why I laugh at those who tout the safe and taxed legal distribution as a bonanza for public services (like POLICE? Really?). The grow-your-own provision so little talked about will ensure that the tax money will likely never come in and it will become a net loss overall.
And, of course, it is still illegal at the Federal level, so unequal enforcement will contnue.
you don’t want corporations to express opinions (they’re not people) but the church can?
I wish we had freedom from religion, not freedom of religion. They should all lose their tax exempt status.
First, there is a big difference between ballot questions and candidates. A fundamental part of religion’s role in society is to bear witness, and sometimes that costs money. If they give to a campaign that needs to be disclosed as it would for anyone else I assume. I’m not sure what the case is here, but very often churches are more interested in preaching to their own rather than the public. I don’t think we’re talking about TV ads that end with, “The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston is responsible for the content of this advertisement.” Tax exempt status is safe as long they are not donating to or advocating for parties or candidates.
My local parish in Salem has 1 priest covering three parishes. He does about seven masses at the three churches in Sunday. Attendance has been revived through Alpha courses, Spanish language masses, and two full time lay ministers for outreach to the young adults in Salem and the college community. We even had supportive signs on the Pride Parade route!
Now they are cutting both lay ministers, selling off the two school buildings (which are used for the Alpha courses, CCD and a Polish heritage center, the schools closed down about a decade ago). Instead of investing the money in replacing retiring priests, rebuilding the schools, and supporting these outreach ministries they are blowing it on playing with politics. Even if I wasn’t Yes on 4, I am angry they are spending money this way.
Friends in Scituate including a former teacher of mine worked for a decade to keep St Francis Cabrini open with their own time and money, there was no reason to shut the church down but they did since it is valuable coastal property. So they can raise more funds to throw away on political causes without consulting the laity. I love Francis and generally think Sean does a good job, but shit like this is pushing me away. It’s bad enough having to rationalize my continued attendance to gay friends and women ministers I know, now they aren’t even helping the parishes that are doing the hard work of thriving in a post-Catholic culture. Instead they are still pursuing a narrow socially conservative political agenda with our money without our consent.
It is just pot.
There are certainly plenty of ways the Church has damaged itself, but I sure don’t think taking a position on pot is one of them.
When they plead poverty and cut staff at my parish and then waste money playing politics here. That’s all. In the large scheme of things, it’s not enough money to reverse the tide nor is it going to make a material difference for most voters. I get that. But it’s a symbol of their warped priorities.
Yeah, they should really be worried more about the domestic abuse and concussions than what pressure the balls are.
Oh, wait, wrong organization that I used to be associated with but avoid now. Never mind.