The corrupted fraud needs to go now. He needs to go now because of a treasonous foreign policy that favors dictators who grease his palms.
We cannot wait for proof to a criminal standard. We are in increasing danger because of his ongoing failure to protect us & our allies from dictators and now, terrorists.
Impeach him now. Let the cowards in the Republican Senate acquit him and live with the consequences of that when a renewed ISIS kills our fellow citizens in the streets because he did a favor for his favorite dictators in the region.
The problem is not only that he is not a small “d” democrat, the problem is that he does favors, from Syria to North Korea to Ukraine, for dictators who are enemies of the American people and our allies.
Within hours of talking to the dictator of Turkey on the phone, he abruptly announced that we are abandoning the Kurds and our fight against ISIS, which we have not yet won, resulting in the resignation of Defense Secretary Mattis, who may have heretofore been preventing untold misuse of our military.
Within hours, the dictator of Russia then released a statement congratulating him on this abandonment of the Kurds, Putin noting that the US has also been in Afghanistan for a long time. Our ‘President’ then promptly announced we would bring home half our troops from Afghanistan.
His supporters will not care, nor acknowledge, that our ‘President’ is being cowed by dictators, and is thereby undermining US foreign policy, potentially sowing the seeds of future terrorist attacks on Europe, America, and the rest of the world. I do care that he is doing this terrible damage to hard-earned alliances – some earned with American blood in World War II.
Why does he do these favors? We need not wait for a full explanation nor absolute proof that he does them for corrupt purposes. It is enough that he does them, and treats our democratic allies like they are enemies. We need not wait for more damage to be done, nor for lives to be lost, before we act.
He just let terrorists out of the noose. This is inexcusable and will put us and our allies in mortal danger. I do not care how this affects the Democratic Party. He must go.
He must go whether or not he goes to jail. I do not care whether he goes to jail. Resignation with a deal is adequate for me. The people whose deaths he will now cause are far more important than my satisfaction at seeing him behind bars.
It’s not about satisfying the people who hate him. It’s about protecting the people we love.
Who we are is who we were. Trump’s destroying our post World War II alliances that have sustained peace, prosperity and progress for 75 years are reason enough to IMPEACH THE BASTARD NOW!
If you want a war, Terry, you should ask Congress to declare war. Are you worried that Trump will end our involvement in Afghanistan?
Poor wittle Donny. They’re all being mean to him.
Everyone is being mean to little Donny.
Jim won’t play army with him anymore.
Paul took his marbles and went home to Wisconsin.
Bob asks nosey questions about his Russian pals.
Chuck won’t pay for the wall he wants for Christmas.
Nancy will be even meaner to him in January. Richard W. Painter
Did fascist dictator Erdogan blackmail the dictator wannabe, weak, ass kissing, fascist Coward to get out of Syria?
Why do you keep going back to this? The merits of pulling out of conflict is hardly the point here!
That’s simply not true. Have you read the post?
” We’ll see a lot of hand-wringing today from people who called themselves anti-war in 2002 and 2003, but now pray that the “adults in the room” keep “boots on the ground” to preserve “credibility.””
Matt Taibbi
“Pathetic that the president would defame a public servant who joined the Bush Administration and stayed on the last two years to help Iraq and defeat ISIL. Demoralizing to public servants everywhere. @realDonald Trump is not a fraction of the person or patriot that @Brett_McGurk is.” John Kerry
We’ve fallen through the looking glass. Progressive liberals are complaining because the administration is downsizing our foreign entanglements. God forbid he closes Guantanamo will they complain about losing jobs?
We’re complaining about MOTIVES. You and Bob Gardner seem to not get that key issue.
Almost all the critiques I’ve heard are specifically about the withdrawal itself and its consequences.
Here are some relevant paragraphs from the thread-starter (emphasis mine):
The complaints are about the compelling evidence that Mr. Trump is doing the bidding of Mr. Erdogan and Mr. Putin, and betraying America and our allies while doing so.
That’s what the thread-starter is about, and that’s what the commentary in the thread is about.
That’s an egregiously distorted misread of what nearly all progressives are complaining about, perilously close to being an outright lie.
Progressive liberals like me — as well as virtually ALL our overseas allies and most of our diplomatic and military staff — are expressing shock and dismay that we are betraying decade-long commitments on the basis of what is at best a whim and at worst a directive from Russian handlers.
According to CNN reports, there was a major active combat operation happening in Syria involving Kurds, Americans, and European allies when this news broke. Those military leaders heard about this via Twitter and media broadcasts, just like the rest of us. Such alliances take years to forge and happen ONLY when our allies trust that we will carry through on commitments we have made.
Every sane American wants our military involvement in Afghanistan and Syria to end. Major policy decisions like this require MUCH more than a frustrated “That’s it, then it’s yours” comment in a telephone conversation Mr. Erdogan.
Speaking of “looking glass” worlds, however, what about about a political party that has claimed “reducing the national debt” as its top priority for thirty years, that pilloried Mr. Obama (and shut down the government multiple times) for refusing to go along with their demands for reducing the national debt, and then literally EXPLODES that same national debt when they acquire control of all three branches of government?
We haven’t fallen through any looking glass. We are instead seeing the GOP and its supporters revealed as the despicable corrupt, racist and sexist hypocrites that they have ALWAYS been.
So well put SomervilleTom. I wouldn’t change a word.
The point is not whether or not we are to remain in either Syria or Afghanistan. Just as you said, the point is what lies behind these abrupt and obviously irresponsibly executed decisions.
Although I protested in Washington on more than one occasion against interventions, I did support the initial intervention in Afghanistan as well as our intervention in Bosnia ( much more controversial on the left).
I think those of us who opposed the second Iraq war have been proven to have been correct, but now that we are where we are – with regard to ISIS in particular – we need to be good allies to those who have joined us in the fight to defeat it.
But what those here who are pretending that this is really about to withdraw or not to withdraw are not saying, is that it is completely outrageous that this ‘President’ (his election will forever be illegitimate) is undermining our allies and has obvious sympathy for dictators.
Unfortunately, it is now abundantly clear that he doesn’t just sympathize with autocrats, he has actively conspired with them to line his own pockets.
Anyone who cannot see this by now, is willfully burying their head deep in tiny grains of silica.
And I for one did support, or at least was more OK with than many here, intervention in Syria.
“. . . what about about a political party that has claimed ‘reducing the national debt’ . . .”
That’s about as pure an example of “whataboutism” as I have ever seen. And about as loopy an argument as I’ve ever encountered on this blog, which is really saying something.
Tom, are you implying that bringing troops out of Syria and Afghanistan is somehow taking the side of the Republicans? From what I can tell, it is you, Terry and Christopher who are in league with John Bolton, Mike Pompeo, Lindsey Graham, Mario Rubio and the rest of that crowd.
Terry, you should really be embarrassed for not noticing Tom’s “alternative facts.”
Sigh. “Loopy” indeed. Yes, my comment did include the phrase “what about”. Absolutely nothing else about your comment is accurate.
Of COURSE I’m not implying that bringing troops out of Syria and Afghanistan is taking the side of the Republicans. Is some part of “Every sane American wants our military involvement in Afghanistan and Syria to end” hard to understand?
My reference to the national debt was in response to the phrase from scott12mass — “We’ve fallen through the looking glass”.
The “looking glass” reference is to parties and their supporters who are embracing the opposite of earlier stances. The point of my comment is that progressives are NOT objecting to withdrawal, and so are not reversing ourselves at all — and that the GOP IS reversing what it has claimed was central dogma for decades.
No alternative facts.
The whole argument that “no progressive objects to the troop withdrawal, only to the way it was done” is as phony as can be. I invite you to listen again to Senators Reed and Menendez at the news conference they held with Lindsey Graham. The three of them argue for a permanent commitment of troops in Syria,– to be ended only when there are no more ISIS sympathizers in that area, and no Russian or Iranian influence. One of them (I forget which) even claims that “we’ are “giving” part of Syria to Iran.
If that’s not an endorsement of permanent war I don’t know what it.
Indeed, I invite you and everyone else to watch and listen again to the press conference you mention.
Your description of this press conference as a “mischaracterization” is far too generous — perhaps you watched a different press conference than me.
Here are some highlights of what I saw and heard:
0:03-0:23
5:09-5:23
7:48-7:52
9:34-10:11
10:28-12:10:
Too lengthy to quote here, but focused on Russia, Mr. Putin, and Mr. Trump’s immediate and eager compliance with Mr. Putin’s request that America leave Afghanistan
13:19-13:50
I haven’t had a chance to listen carefully to the entire 35 minute press conference. In the 15 minutes I did listen to (and highlight here), I heard two Democrats and a Republican outrage over a betrayal of our allies and of America by Mr. Trump.
The only thing “phony” I’ve seen so far is your comment.
Perhaps you might cite the portions of the press conference where we can see and hear:
I think it’s not there.
The Senators give only lip service to the idea of leaving when the “conditions are right”. They rewrite history and set impossible conditions for any withdrawal. All three Senators embrace the lie that ISIS is the result of Obama’s leaving Iraq, rather than the a consequence of the invasion itself. Did you notice that Iraq, which Obama “abandoned” still has our troops stationed there, and is in fact the combat zone where Trump visited the troops? Menendez goes out of his way to tie the presence of our troops in Syria to Russia’s actions in Ukraine. The three Senators also treat our troops as protection for Jordan and Israel, who apparently can’t protect themselves from Iran.
These three Senators support permanent war, whether with Syria, Russia or Iran. Our allies in Syria, like our allies in Afghanistan, will always be in that sweet spot where they are making real progress but are not quite ready for us to leave. Like the bar that had a sign “Free beer tomorrow”, the conditions Graham, Reed and Menendez set will be perpetually out of reach.
You are offering your interpretation, rather than what they actually said.
I don’t want permanent war any more than you. Do you agree that we need allies? Would you trust an “ally” who tells you via Twitter that “time’s up” literally in the middle of a combat operation?
The most disturbing part of this act, for me, is that all the evidence points to it being eager compliance with requests from Mr. Erdogan and Mr. Putin.
The attack on Pearl Harbor ended the naive isolationism of the WWII generation. The illusion that we don’t need allies is exceedingly dangerous.
I agree with you that we don’t want permanent war. I hope you agree with me that strong alliances with partners like Germany, France, and the UK is crucial for avoiding that state.
“all the evidence points. . .
Of course that’s your interpretation of the evidence.
Blaming Obama for the creation of ISIS is a right wing slander that was repeated by all three Senators at that press conference.
None of the reasons given, change if the withdrawal had been done the same way we “withdrew” from Iraq, ie., with lots of ceremony negotiations, etc. Saying that we have to wait for a time when our withdrawal won’t leave Iran and Russia with more influence in Syria is tantamount to staying forever. The same goes for waiting for the generals to approve it
My example where we have been talking about peace but not leaving is Afghanistan. Your example of a place where we brought everyone home would be what?
I agree that blaming ISIS on Mr. Obama is a right-wing lie. ISIS was created by our illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003. The US withdrawal from Iraq in 2011 was done in accordance with George W. Bush’s 2008 “Status of Forces” announcement — the occasion where the Iraqi journalist threw his shoe at Mr. Bush.
I didn’t hear any of the three Senators say that we have to wait for a time when leaving “won’t leave Iran and Russia with more influence in Syria”. I also only listened to the first 15 minutes. Can you point me at the place where they said that?
I also didn’t hear them say we must wait “for the generals to approve it”.
I heard them say, instead, that any such withdrawal must be done in cooperation with our allies in the region.
Multiple sources report that Mr. Trump’s decision to withdraw from Syria came in a moment of Mr. Trump’s frustration during a telephone conversation with Mr. Erdogan:
Mr. Trump’s subsequent decision to withdraw from Afghanistan is widely reported to have come in response to the annual press conference of Mr. Putin:
I stand by my assertion that all the evidence points towards these being “eager compliance with requests from Mr. Erdogan and Mr. Putin”. I share your concerns about when the needed withdrawal will happen. When and if it does, I don’t think it should be done like this.
I don’t think the image of American commitment to allies could be sullied any worse than the images of our phrenetic exit from Saigon (Ho Chi Minh city). Allies need to know (or should know) that their commitment to their own cause had better be enough to sustain them for the long haul. We may assist when our goals are intertwined but will withdraw when our goals are met. The Kurds are the new Hmong.
We went into Afghanistan to get Osama and punish the Taliban. We didn’t care about the Taliban till they allowed their territory to be used to train terrorists who exported their “war” to our homeland. When we leave the Afghans there will be a theocracy in 5-10 years, or a brutal dictator. If they stay in their own sandbox we’ll leave them alone, as we should.
Fewer foreign quagmires with clearly defined goals. Let the UN be the place where international morality gets played out, but the institution would probably lose half its members if honest scrutiny were applied.
@scott12mass: Whoa, slow down there partner.
I completely reject your comparison of Saigon of 1975 and Syria of 2018. South Vietnam was a puppet government created by the US and kept in place by years of secret and illegal bombing. Your attempt to conflate the South Vietnamese and the Kurds is offensive to the Kurds and is at best uninformed. By 1975, the US had no European allies to betray in Vietnam.
Your sketch of the Taliban is similarly inconsistent with my recollection of history. The US went to great lengths to support the Afghan mujahideen while they were “freedom fighters” opposing the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The Taliban evolved from those groups.
While it’s true that AQ trained in and were harbored by Afghanistan, it is also true that the 9/11 attack originated with OBL and the Saudis.
If our goal is to reduce the likelihood of future 9/11 events, then our strategy should be to enlarge and strengthen our international ties. Withdrawing from “foreign quagmires” is a prescription for more domestic attacks.
Mr. Trump and his sidekicks (like Mr. Bolton) are making the world FAR more dangerous as they betray our allies and simultaneously court the favor of the world’s most vicious tyrants.
Trump: I’ll shut down the government unless you make me president for life, let me jail all my enemies, and deport all the immigrants.
Pundits: When will both parties learn to compromise???
Jon Favreau
Draft dodging chickenhawk cowards don’t get to call any Generals “failed”. You failed at manhood. You failed as “leader”. You failed marriage & as father. You failed at rejecting Treason. Your most spectacular failure was as an American. History will show #TrumpEqualsFailure Malcolm Nance