To my friends who are piling on Joe Biden and forming a circular firing squad while our democracy burns and kids sit in cages and vans in the heat:
1. You are making the Russian trolls, and you know who, very happy.
2. No public figure is perfect. Not FDR, not LBJ, not MLK. I have had to vote my entire life for presidential candidates who did not even support my basic human right to form a family of my choosing: Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and, yes, Obama – until finally one did: Hillary in 2016. Task #1 is preventing a burgeoning fascist from gaining ever more power. You want to see a real Handmaiden’s Tale and back alley abortions? Easy: dIssolve into bitter factions and get Trump re-elected.
The solution is coalition, not satisfaction.
3. The only way Trump can be re-elected is if this absolutism and purity test exclusion mentality takes hold among Trump opponents.
I am undecided in this race, but I will not be bullied into shunning any candidate if that candidate may be the way to defeat Trump.
While you’re at it, please read the history of the left during the Spanish Civil War.
Putin, no doubt, has.
The opponents of the fascist, Francisco Franco, splintered into multiple factions who each were appalled by the imperfections of the other. The result? Fifty years of fascist dictatorship, human rights tragedies and the subjugation of women.
For what it’s worth, at the moment my top five candidates, in no particular order, are Elizabeth Warren, John Yang, Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, and Pete Buttigieg. (And I sure wish Stacey Abrams would enter the race.) But there are at least twenty that I would happily vote for.
Will it be the tribal tearing down and denigrating of H.W. Bush by Buchanan, or just a regular primary? I hope it’s the latter for the sake of our nation and the world.
Mr. Yang’s first name is Andrew.
Typically, this latest call for unity is just bristling with hostility.
Bull pucky. United we stand; divided we fall.
There wasn’t a hostile word in this diary!
Are you kidding? The entire diary is hostile towards anybody who fails to salute the flag of Mr. Biden with sufficient enthusiasm.
That’s an awfully interesting interpretation since the diarist towards the end lists his top five choices, none of whom is Biden. There’s hostility toward Trump to be sure, but none toward other Dems or their supporters.
I think it is insulting to primary voters before we have even had a debate to frame the contest as “for Biden” or “for Putin”. It is a big reason a lot of Bernie supporters (not all-Terry and myself proudly backed Hillary) were turned off by her insistence that he leave the field before NY voted and the process based issues the DNC had. Fairly or not, it lead to a perception that the thumbs were on the scale.
Tom Perez has gone out of his way to create a far more open, fair, and transparent primary. Maybe too fair as the crowded debate stage might show. This diary is entirely appropriate in August of 2020 if there remain factions uncommitted to a Biden nomination. The certainty of that nomination is even less assured than Hillary’s was in 2008 or 2016. Let the people vote. It’s what a democratic party should be about.
You and SomervilleTom entirely missed the point of this diary. Nowhere did the diarist say that if you support another candidate in the primary that is tantamount to supporting Putin. His point is that if you gratuitously attack someone who has an excellent shot at being the nominee you are sowing needless party division and doing Putin’s dirty work for him. There is a huge difference between preferring a different Democrat and attacking Biden. Stay positive, I think, is all that we are asking.
I already wrote “I am appalled by Mr. Biden’s statement of support for the Hyde Amendment.” I don’t know if that’s an attack or not. It certainly is not “gratuitous”. I oppose Mr. Biden’s candidacy, just as I support some others. There are other announced candidates that I also oppose.
The thread-starter was, I think, crystal-clear about who is being targeted and I fall squarely into the middle of that group. I plead “Guilty” to the charge of opposing Mr. Biden.
The closer Mr. Biden comes to being the nominee, the more vocally I will oppose him.
That is not because I am an “enemy of Democracy”, or because I am “Trumpian”, or because I am “sowing needless party division” or because I am “doing Putin’s dirty work for him.”
It is because I think Mr. Biden is bad for me and my family, bad for Massachusetts, bad for Democrats and bad for America. I think he is hopelessly mired in the past. His choice to announce in 2019 that he supports the Hyde Amendment exemplifies everything I object to about Mr. Biden.
We are not even into summer of the year before the next general election. In my opinion, loudly opposing candidates that we find objectionable is exactly what we SHOULD be doing right now — especially if one of those candidates has an excellent shot at being the nominee.
I wouldn’t go that far and say he is bad for America. I think that’s perhaps what the thread starter wanted to avoid. He is not as good for America as Warren might be, but he is certainly good for America and certainly better for America than four more years of this.
He also no longer supports Hyde.
If you have an honest difference of opinion with Biden it’s fine to say so. I really don’t think Terry was talking about you.
I agree with you on this.
I have to admit this response actually made me laugh (in a good-natured way). Passion for my country, sir, not hostility.
We should all back the eventual nominee, but there’s no guarantee that it will be Joe Biden and no reason it should be.
I will not aid and abet the enemies of democracy who seek to win by dividing us.
Biden is not progressive enough to earn my primary vote, but he is progressive enough when compared with Donald Trump to earn my vote in the general election. I think this is a standard we all ultimately agree with.
Terry-the trolls on twitter are not the general population of Democratic primary voters. While nitpicking and making contrasts are part of the refining process this early in the primary (we haven’t even held debates yet), I am crystal clear that the nominee will get my full support. I just disagree right now that Biden deserves to be the nominee.
Those of us who lean towards Ms. Warren or other candidates are not “enemies of democracy”.
The enemies of democracy are Russia and those that want to re-elect Trump. They are NOT Democratic activists who are supporting our presidential candidates.
Which exactly nobody said here.
I would hesitate to call primary opponents enemies of democracy. I would in fact argue that the enemies of democracy within the Democratic Party are those that are calling for unity this early in the game. Let the candidates debate and let the people vote. If they select Biden, then he has earned all of our votes.
My call for unity was meant to avert ad hominem personal attacks during the primary contest by keeping the debates focused on policy differences so we can ALL rally in support of the eventual nominee to defeat Trump.
I apologize for not making myself more clear.
I am currently uncommitted in the primary race. My favorite candidates in no particular order are : Warren, Mayor Pete, Harris, Biden. (and Michele Obama) 🙂
I am also a lifelong pro choice voter since 1971 who opposes Hyde and thinks Joe Biden is wrong on this issue.
However, I am not a single issue voter.
@avert ad hominem personal attacks:
I totally agree with this.
I have no use for the following kinds of complaints about ANY candidate, including Mr. Biden:
1. He/she is too old/young
2. He/she is male/female/whatever
3. He/she is hetero/gay/whatever
4. He/she is too white/black/Hispanic/etc
These are attacks on characteristics that are (a) irrelevant, (b) unchangeable by the candidate, and (c) dog-whistles for too many hate groups.
I also agree with Fred that policy differences are fair game, and I’m glad to hear him explicitly restate that.
Thanks, Tom. If we can agree now on conducting a respectful, civil debate among ourselves on substantive issues followed by solidarity endorsement of the eventual nominee, we stand a better chance of going into the general united to defeat Trumpists up and down the ballot.
Agreed, without reservations.
I am appalled by Mr. Biden’s statement of support for the Hyde Amendment. It exemplifies why I think Mr. Biden is yesterday’s candidate for yesterday’s America. Mr. Biden gave me, my family, and most importantly my three daughters a raised middle finger yesterday. The furthest I’ll go towards embracing “unity” is to resist the strong temptation to return the favor.
I reject the implication that because I oppose Mr. Biden’s candidacy, I am “forming a circular firing squad while our democracy burns and kids sit in cages and vans in the heat” or pleasing Russian trolls. The hordes of Americans clamoring to criminalize abortion and even birth control (if you listen to Clarence Thomas) are as threatening as any Russian troll — those hordes of Americans are one of the tools used by the trolls. How dare a Democrat accuse me of Trumpism.
Indeed. And I will not be bullied into supporting any candidate.
The race is wide open and the field of candidates is densely populated. It is outrageous to demand lock-step support for somebody-or-other’s chosen “front-runner”. That isn’t “unity”, that is tyranny.
My own opinion is that Elizabeth Warren is far and away the strongest candidate in the race. No matter my reservations about her decision to run, she is to me the only candidate who offers substance, political chops, and — most importantly — the clear ability to actually GOVERN if elected. That’s just my opinion — we haven’t even had the first debate for crying out loud.
I see none of those qualities in Mr. Biden, as exemplified by yesterday’s blunder.
Please stop trying to bully me.
I agree with you Tom that Biden’s support for the Hyde Amendment is disappointing and absolutely a reason to vote against him in the primary. However, Terry is correct that it is ultimately immaterial to a general election. What do I mean by that?
First off, I give Biden the benefit of the doubt that this position is sincere and not political posturing. It actually weakens him as a candidate and he has taken it anyway. My own history on this issue even on this website is fraught with twists and turns and real wrestling. Like Biden, I was once a centrist on this issue due to my Catholic upbringing. Like Biden, I struggled with reconciling Roe with what my faith taught about abortion. Like Biden, I held my nose for Roe but refused to pay for it with my tax dollars. Unlike Biden, I am married to a health care provider who is devoted to reproductive health care for women and she has educated me on the issue. In the real world the question of federal funds isn’t really about payment-it is is about preserving access.
In a real world where rich white women will always have access to reproductive choices-the real moral question is whether it is just to deny that same choice to poor and non white women in far more vulnerable circumstances. This is no longer a hypothetical for me-I do not want my predominately working class students denied the choice to choose their own futures if they get pregnant in high school. I do not want my potential daughters denied those rights. So I agree it is profoundly disappointing that Biden has not had those conversations with advocates for women. I also empathize with where he is coming from since it is exactly where I was just a few years ago.
As the nominee I expect him to have those conversations and to evolve on the issue. Whether Biden does or does not evolve on Hyde, he will appoint pro-Roe judges and Donald Trump will not. In that binary, Terry is 100% right. In a primary where we have better candidates running, he and Joe Biden are wrong.
Really? How can you guarantee that he will appoint pro-choice judges?
I for one can’t imagine otherwise. He may not make it a litmus test (and IMO shouldn’t), but the general philosophy of judges he’s likely to appoint lends itself to upholding Roe.
Well, I’m certainly not risking my reproductive health on your imagination.
And he evolved faster than I expected.
Amen, brother. I agree with everything you wrote, except that I’m supporting Sanders (with Warren as my 2nd choice).
I have read the diary thrice now and fail to see how it is bullying. It’s just a warning against negativity. As an aside, supporting Hyde is not a deal-breaker with me and I see the logic both politically and on the merits.
Biden just reversed himself on Hyde.
I think to bring it back-there is a real risk that some far left people are making Biden out to be as conservative as Romney online or just as bad as Trump. Some of those posts may in fact be acts of Russian interference. None of us should fall prey to attempts to delegitimize any of our candidates.
It is one thing to say Biden is not the best Democrat in this race-he’s not in my view. It’s quite another to argue he is not a real Democrat or a crypto Republican. He is neither of those things either. He has my vote in the general, he will likely not earn it in the primary.
Well of course it’s not a deal breaker for you, you don’t have to worry about your reproductive health rights being taken away.
1943: LBJ repeatedly supports segregation in his runs for office.
Flash to 1964-65:
LBJ brilliantly shepherds the most transformative civil rights legislation in American History since the aftermath of the Civil War, accelerating a dramatic transformation of American society.
I hear you.
At the same time, LBJ was not promoting Jim Crow laws in June of 1963. He was a leader in the effort to pass civil rights legislation in 1957.
I would have a very different reaction to Mr. Biden if he had announced his opposition to the Hyde Amendment in 2013, rather than his support for it in June of 2019.
I have to say this did strike me, initially, as a slap at those who, like me, take issue with Biden on the Hyde amendment and/or other issues. (His “to my friends” intro reads that way.)
But on reflection I wonder if Terry is not responding to something else–things that we (or I at any rate) do not see because it is not in our social media streams and has not crossed over into media that we regularly see.
It’s not new, but I am still not used to the fragmentation of discourse. I think it is useful for people to are responding generally to cite sources or at least give context, lest some think you are unfairly attacking them.
Also, and I hate to say this, but some of these messages may be being pushed by Russian or GOP trolls.
Great point trickle up. I can’t find the tweet I saw that argued Biden and Trump are the same and issued a laundry list of similarities, but it looked almost identical to a similar 2016 one about Clinton and Trump. You see a lot of this narrative pushed by Stein and her supporters amplified by RT-Putin’s media network in the US. Greenwald made similar conclusions in 2016 and is making similar accusations against Biden and it’s hard to argue at this point that he isn’t aiding the Trump campaign with this kind of rhetoric. Some of it fueled by Russian intelligence assets on Twitter.
This Guardian columnist is a lot closer to mainstream progressive attacks against Biden, the content is reasonable, but the clickbait headline is misleading and presents a false equivalency.
It’s a fine line we need now between a genuine clash of visions and ideas in the intraparty part of this process and total unity for the interparty part.
It also shows the dilemma for the party. It’s not just polls-but anecdotes from Trump supporters or learners I’m friends or colleagues with-they love Biden and would vote for him today over Trump. The downside is, the party base would be least excited to vote for him. We need to win back a combination of Obama-Trump voters and increase non-white, woman, and youth voter turnout. How to straddle that line is also going to be a challenge. Warren is far less likely to get the votes of those folks, but also is going to be immune to these attacks that frankly will hurt Biden today as much as they hurt Hillary in 2016.
To Trumpists and their enablers everywhere : Don’t blame a clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Russia and Trumpists are gaslighters.
GASLIGHTING : to cause a person to doubt his sanity through psychological manipulation. MALIGN, VILLIFY, REVILE; a malicious , false and defamatory statement.
I think it is interesting (and sometimes important) to know what the trolls are saying. However, we all need to be hep to the fact that repeating them, or reacting to them, here or anywhere, can increase their impact.
Not always inevitably, but often and in subtle ways.
As someone who naturally likes to talk about everything I am still kind of wrestling with this. It really goes against the grain somehow.
But at least we should be super clear about where we heard or saw what, and who said it.
It’s Naderism deja vu conflation circa 2000 all over again. I was busting my back campaigning for Al Gore and these idiots kept attacking him as being no different than Bush. I wanted to punch them out, I was so livid.
Gore ‘lost’ Florida by 500 odd votes while Nader threw away 90,000 votes wasted.
And the rest is history.
It was Eugene McCarthy in 1968 when I trudged through the snows of Manchester, NH knocking doors for him as an 18 year old idealist activist.
Then he refused to endorse our nominee, Hubert Horatio Humphrey, who would have ended the Vietnam war thereby giving the election to warmonger Nixon in a squeaker and escalated the war for FIVE MORE YEARS after lying about a ‘secret peace plan.’
I’m so done with these holier than thou purists!
You’ll see plenty of Biden bashing on Daily Kos.
It’s not a very nice place (Kos). But it is interesting.